GSXR813 Turbo EFI

[evad]

I will be using a usb to serial converter although I have a efi analytics bluetooth dongle that I will play with at some stage to hook up to my smartphone for logging

[slingy88]

What USB to serial converter are you using if you dont mind me asking? I know they dont all work well. I tried a cheap locally sourced one ages ago and it didnt like it.
I was thinking of trying the EFIAnylitics one which is proven to work but if you've found something else would be interesting to know.

[evad]

I have the Efi anylitics one, you are welcome to try it out before you get one.
Doesn't the blue tooth set up Arrtu has fitted to his version of the ms3 connect to the laptop?
Im also keen to find out more about his battery set up'it tiny and weighs next to nothing...... He is a bit of a wizz kid but really helpful as well.

[slingy88]

Ok guys, back from my holidays and feeling very jet lagged still, but will try and keep progress going as much as possible.

But for those that are using Mega/Microsquirt products i'd thought i'd share that there is a new Android app available called "msdroid"
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.msdroid Does pretty much well everything i'm trying to achieve and is designed to be used as a dashboard with datalogging and even altering the tables.it will run on any android phone or tablet like Surt has ;) . It was released about a week after i bought my HTC .BUGGER!!!!!!!! But it dosnt run the self tuning software VE Anylize Live which is what i'm really after so i will use that as justification for my ongoing use of the HTC lol

Anyway cheers for now and hopefully get thing moving again .

[Dynomutt]

I would also be interested in what serial USB adapter you are using, I have recently tried to connect my dyno to my new laptop using one, which did not work well. normall I use a serial card and RS232 set up, but modern laptops don't come with a slot for a serial card, so I bought a serial USB adapter which cannot handle the data transfer, and keeps freezing up after ending a run. The Baud rate was supposed to be high enough, but I'm now looking for another solution.

[slingy88]

I would also be interested in what serial USB adapter you are using, I have recently tried to connect my dyno to my new laptop using one, which did not work well. normall I use a serial card and RS232 set up, but modern laptops don't come with a slot for a serial card, so I bought a serial USB adapter which cannot handle the data transfer, and keeps freezing up after ending a run. The Baud rate was supposed to be high enough, but I'm now looking for another solution.

Yep, lots of problems with cheaper ones not handling the data correctly, or the laptop seeing the adapter as the hardware rather than the hardware itself. Mine came from EFIAnalytics in the states and is proven for this use.
They also do the bluetooth adapter as well and as many if not all laptops have this as well, thats another option for you. These can be had from the same place.

Cheers, Slingy

[Dynomutt]

Thanks I'll look into it. I have looked at the serial solutions serial USB adapter, as they are the people who make my serial card and RS232 cable that I use on my old laptop, and t heir kit is usually pretty good. I only need to do it as I fucked the screen on my old laptop, which I can replace for around £70 if it comes to it. But I would also like to have the ability to run my dyno with either laptop just incase anything happens to the original one, as a few weeks ago the hard drive died just when I had 4 bikes turn up for dynoing. That little outing cost me £150, then two days later I closed the screen and left something sat on the keyboard which fucked me screen!!!!

[Surt]

Ok guys, back from my holidays and feeling very jet lagged still, but will try and keep progress going as much as possible.

But for those that are using Mega/Microsquirt products i'd thought i'd share that there is a new Android app available called "msdroid"
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.msdroid Does pretty much well everything i'm trying to achieve and is designed to be used as a dashboard with datalogging and even altering the tables.it will run on any android phone or tablet like Surt has ;) . It was released about a week after i bought my HTC .BUGGER!!!!!!!! But it dosnt run the self tuning software VE Anylize Live which is what i'm really after so i will use that as justification for my ongoing use of the HTC lol

Anyway cheers for now and hopefully get thing moving again .

awesome find slingy! perhaps one can use shadow logger for tuning and msdroid after the tuning's finished. at least until the golden time when shadow logger receives the dash board look as well

[latheboy]

Thanks I'll look into it. I have looked at the serial solutions serial USB adapter, as they are the people who make my serial card and RS232 cable that I use on my old laptop, and t heir kit is usually pretty good. I only need to do it as I fucked the screen on my old laptop, which I can replace for around £70 if it comes to it. But I would also like to have the ability to run my dyno with either laptop just incase anything happens to the original one, as a few weeks ago the hard drive died just when I had 4 bikes turn up for dynoing. That little outing cost me £150, then two days later I closed the screen and left something sat on the keyboard which fucked me screen!!!!

Noise is a big killer of computers near Dyno's, if you can move it away as far as you can so it can still be used it might help.

We use USB to serial for our Dyno's and have no problems, sorry I can't tell you which one ... it's not a cheapy.

[slingy88]

awesome find slingy! perhaps one can use shadow logger for tuning and msdroid after the tuning's finished. at least until the golden time when shadow logger receives the dash board look as well

It logs as well so can be used the same as shadow logger ;)

[Surt]

It logs as well so can be used the same as shadow logger ;)

yup but it doesn run autotune or so i got it?

[Dynomutt]

Noise is a big killer of computers near Dyno's, if you can move it away as far as you can so it can still be used it might help.

We use USB to serial for our Dyno's and have no problems, sorry I can't tell you which one ... it's not a cheapy.

TO be honest I've not had any issues in the last 5 years with this set up, other than running an old methanol burning Manx Norton, which kept knocking the electronics out with the magneto.
I've always used the serial card RS232 to connect the stack to my laptop, but my new laptop has no slot for a serial card, hence needing the USB/serial adapter.
I may just end up getting a new screen for my existing dyno laptop, I am still using it but I'm running with a seperate flatscreen monitor hooked up as I usually do which gives me the dyno stuff on the monitor, and I usually use the laptop screen for the power commander set up screen.

[Surt]

hell'ye'fuckin'luyah! got a news down my mail from efi analytics - shadow dash for ms android has come!

http://www.tunerstudio.com/index.php/shadowdashmsmenu


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=X7JOLBSakIk

[MattyDucati]

Thats a sweet looking find surt!

[slingy88]

I wondered if you'd got the same email Surt ;) I tell you what, MS is jumping leaps and bounds at the moment isnt it.
But, its still only a designable dash with datalogging. No access to fuel/spark tables and no Analyze Live autotune.
Mine looks the same and still has full Tunerstudio functionality, But once i'm well happy with the tune and they've got the propper release of Shadow dash, i might well get a cheap Android tablet and use it for the dash. I especially like the GPS based speedo. Plus, it logs the accellerantmeters in the Android devices as well, which could lead to some interesting spin offs. If you know the mass of an object (ie the bike), and you can time how long it takes to accellerate it to a given speed, you can calculate its power. So could datalog all this and plot a power curve from it! Very interesting stuff.
I'll post some piccys of my HTC running in the next couple of days.

[Surt]

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750 slingshot/100_0429Medium.jpg



hey slingy it looks like u made the oil pump to act as a scavenge pump? very clever, does it really work?

[Surt]

I wondered if you'd got the same email Surt ;) I tell you what, MS is jumping leaps and bounds at the moment isnt it.
But, its still only a designable dash with datalogging. No access to fuel/spark tables and no Analyze Live autotune.
Mine looks the same and still has full Tunerstudio functionality, But once i'm well happy with the tune and they've got the propper release of Shadow dash, i might well get a cheap Android tablet and use it for the dash. I especially like the GPS based speedo. Plus, it logs the accellerantmeters in the Android devices as well, which could lead to some interesting spin offs. If you know the mass of an object (ie the bike), and you can time how long it takes to accellerate it to a given speed, you can calculate its power. So could datalog all this and plot a power curve from it! Very interesting stuff.
I'll post some piccys of my HTC running in the next couple of days.

looks so, but u can open the shadow logger ap and then dash ap eh? but im just envious at your purchase mate i wish i could afford it... maybe later i'll grab a 2nd hand gadget for coupla hundred bucks until then i still have my tablet and lappy lol
btw any news of ur new dash board from htc? keen to see it!

[slingy88]

hey slingy it looks like u made the oil pump to act as a scavenge pump? very clever, does it really work?

Right, my problem was, being the shortstroke 750, i had very minimal height to get header and turbo above the oil to allow for gravity feed.
The best i could manage was to just keep the shaft of the turbo above the oil low mark. So i figured , to help avoid surging on breaking and to provide some scavange effect, i'd plumb the return into the oil pickup.
This worked great, no smoke, even on brakes . BUT, i had to keep the oil on the low mark otherwise it would pool in the inlet housing and then get blown into the motor on start up.
And , i was always abit worried about the rubber hose degrading in the oil and losing a hoseclamp into the gearbox.
But, itwas in there for like 3 yrs and was still great so no need to worry.
So, i have just changed it to a VDO electric scavange pump but havnt had the motor running yet to try it.
There are plenty of guys on the net who have run a full scavange system using the engines oil pump.
You plumb the turbo return in as i did, then under the filter screen, mount a plate with a hole in it, then some spring steel over the hole to make a reed. This reed plate then encourages the pump to suck on the turbo slightly harder than the sump, thus keeping the turbo scvanged. If you put a one way valve in to stop oil running back you can have the turbo lower than the oil.BUT, they are very touchy to the how strong the reeds are. Too week and they wont scavange, too strong and its starves the engine of oil. So most people seem to run a mechanical pump off the pick up end of the crank now.

[slingy88]

looks so, but u can open the shadow logger ap and then dash ap eh? but im just envious at your purchase mate i wish i could afford it... maybe later i'll grab a 2nd hand gadget for coupla hundred bucks until then i still have my tablet and lappy lol
btw any news of ur new dash board from htc? keen to see it!

Yep, i can run the logger and the auto tune together in the background while still having the full dash screen up :)

The HTC turned up but it took about 10 hrs of dicking around to get the wifi to work at home so i could download tunerstudio on to it.
But all done now, runs tunerstudio fine. My bluetooth and USB adapters turned up from efi anylitics. Both work but the bluetooth is giving me some problems so will use the usb initially which works great.
I will post a vid of it working soon. Just trying to make a dash that it can sit in. I had to move the ignition switch off the top tripple to the frame by the headstock to make room for it etc so its taking longer than i origionally thought.

[Surt]

i had to keep the oil on the low mark otherwise it would pool in the inlet

Which inlet do you mean?


under the filter screen, mount a plate with a hole in it, then some spring steel over the hole to make a reed

I get it as the plate suppose to close the whole oil pickup hole tight, just let it in through the reed? Why not to let pump out just from both sump and turbine freely?

[Surt]

Yep, i can run the logger and the auto tune together in the background while still having the full dash screen up :)

The HTC turned up but it took about 10 hrs of dicking around to get the wifi to work at home so i could download tunerstudio on to it.
But all done now, runs tunerstudio fine. My bluetooth and USB adapters turned up from efi anylitics. Both work but the bluetooth is giving me some problems so will use the usb initially which works great.
I will post a vid of it working soon. Just trying to make a dash that it can sit in. I had to move the ignition switch off the top tripple to the frame by the headstock to make room for it etc so its taking longer than i origionally thought.

yup i bought the b\t adapter from them, as for a usb adapter my tablet has non standard micro usb socket so fitting it can be a prob

[slingy88]

http://youtu.be/FqIjhXvbCR8

Right, got my dash mount more or less finished and the idiot lights mounted around the top. I had to move the ignition into the frame to make room for it as well.

Still got to wire up the idiot lights as well as the charge supply for the htc and as i'm still waiting for the right angle usb adapter to turn up, i cant show you guys it working showing real data, but i can show you the demo screen of the dash i will be using and how easy it it is to access the tables for editing etc. Though it works ok with a fat left handed finger, a stylus is quicker as its more accurate, so i appolagise know for some of the multiple menu opens etc, I think i might build a stylus holder in somewhere lol.
Cant wait to get it set up and try it propper like. ;)

[ozzy1100]

now that is cool

[mr.zxr]

how waterproof is this thing? i'd hate for it to fuck up in the rain. looks very cool though.

[Surt]

yup its fucking awesome mate! d'u think u'd be able to edit tables on the run?

[slingy88]

how waterproof is this thing? i'd hate for it to fuck up in the rain. looks very cool though.

Not very lol. It just slots into a foam lined recess with a single clamp though, so i'm just thinking if it happens, pull over, unplug and slip it under me jacket. The speedo is seperate so that will still be visible whatever.

[slingy88]

yup its fucking awesome mate! d'u think u'd be able to edit tables on the run?

Yep, you can easliy modify tables with the stylus, or even better if you take it out and use the keyboard.
But the more important feature is VE Anylize Live as this edits the tables for you as you ride. The only input needed is to pull over and hit the 'Burn' tab to save the changes to the ecu :)

[mr.zxr]

Not very lol. It just slots into a foam lined recess with a single clamp though, so i'm just thinking if it happens, pull over, unplug and slip it under me jacket. The speedo is seperate so that will still be visible whatever.
Keep a Ziplock bag in your jacket pocket. i drowned an Iphone in my leather jacket. i got caught in a thunderstorm and thought the phone would be ok. Only a $500 wrong assumption.

[slingy88]

Keep a Ziplock bag in your jacket pocket. i drowned an Iphone in my leather jacket. i got caught in a thunderstorm and thought the phone would be ok. Only a $500 wrong assumption.

Yep, very good suggestion. ;) I will add that to list lol

[Surt]

Yep, you can easliy modify tables with the stylus, or even better if you take it out and use the keyboard.
But the more important feature is VE Anylize Live as this edits the tables for you as you ride. The only input needed is to pull over and hit the 'Burn' tab to save the changes to the ecu :)

i know u can theoretically, but would u be able to fine tune tables poking ur finger while accelerating or decelerating in the 6th gear? another question, do u correct the tables by autotune or feel fine about them in general?

[slingy88]

i know u can theoretically, but would u be able to fine tune tables poking ur finger while accelerating or decelerating in the 6th gear? another question, do u correct the tables by autotune or feel fine about them in general?

No, you couldnt do it while riding, not even with a full size laptop, would be too fiddly at thsoe speeds.
You'd be better to make adjustments, try it, stop and make more adjustments, try it etc untill you get close.

But this is the beauty of VE Anylize Live, just set your AFR table up how you want it. I use Speed density to control this so you can change the AFR for given boost settings.
So the software just compares the revs your at to the pressure at the TB's, looks this up on the table to see what you want it to be at this point then compares this to what you actually have at your wideband sensor.
It then makes a percentage change to the VE table for the same point.
So, the more times you hit each point on the table the more it changes it.
Generally, i'd go for a ride with the autotune running, use the gears as much as possible to hit as many rpm/pressure points as possible, then when i got home, look at how it changed the table and what trends were appearing. Then manually smooth the table out around what the auto tune had done, then go for another ride etc untill it starts getting close to what you want.
It dosnt take long, and is cool to feel the bike start to run smoother and smoother, even as your riding. Its alot safer as you dont even need to see the laptop while your riding. I just used to have it in a rucksack

The last couple of rides i havnt bothered with it as the tables are close enough and i couldnt be arsed to carry the laptop. Now i have my new dash set up, i'll keep running it and logging as there's always scope for improvement. Plus i need to start setting up accell enrichment, and that seems to be a case of suck it and see. :D

[Surt]

sounds sick mate! do u wind up the boost?

[slingy88]

sounds sick mate! do u wind up the boost?

I havnt yet. Still only 10psi. I'd like to just get the fuel tables a little better at the top end of the rev range first.

[Deano]

No, you couldnt do it while riding, not even with a full size laptop, would be too fiddly at thsoe speeds.
You'd be better to make adjustments, try it, stop and make more adjustments, try it etc untill you get close.

But this is the beauty of VE Anylize Live, just set your AFR table up how you want it. I use Speed density to control this so you can change the AFR for given boost settings.
So the software just compares the revs your at to the pressure at the TB's, looks this up on the table to see what you want it to be at this point then compares this to what you actually have at your wideband sensor.
It then makes a percentage change to the VE table for the same point.
So, the more times you hit each point on the table the more it changes it.
Generally, i'd go for a ride with the autotune running, use the gears as much as possible to hit as many rpm/pressure points as possible, then when i got home, look at how it changed the table and what trends were appearing. Then manually smooth the table out around what the auto tune had done, then go for another ride etc untill it starts getting close to what you want.
It dosnt take long, and is cool to feel the bike start to run smoother and smoother, even as your riding. Its alot safer as you dont even need to see the laptop while your riding. I just used to have it in a rucksack

The last couple of rides i havnt bothered with it as the tables are close enough and i couldnt be arsed to carry the laptop. Now i have my new dash set up, i'll keep running it and logging as there's always scope for improvement. Plus i need to start setting up accell enrichment, and that seems to be a case of suck it and see. :D

Where does throttle position come into play?

[BANDITROD]

i have no fucking idea what you 2 are talking about but it sounds cool so keep up the good work slingy

[Surt]

Where does throttle position come into play?

the ecu calculates the quantity of air basing on the iat and map, so tp doesnt count Deano

[slingy88]

With Speed Density, this is the case, although it is still used for Accell enrichment purposes.

But for ITB setups like ours , its much better to use Alpha-N (throttle possition ) based fueling , but then this isnt any good for turbo motors as for any given throttle position you may or may not have boost present so fueling will never be right.

So i tried Speed density and it worked well on boost but hard to get off boost good.
Now i run Alpha - N with MAP multiplication, which uses TPS for the main table reference but then multiplys that table value by what ever the manifold pressure is, thus it infinately varries the fueling according to boost.
It works really well, giving the best of both.
But for my AFR tables and Spark Tables i use pure Speed density, so i can build the tables based on the MAP only as i dont really care what the throttle is doing for these.
The Alpha-N with MAP Multiplication is only available with MS Extra Code, so i strongly suggest to upgrade your firmware in the ECU to this before you start tuning.

[Surt]

now its half greek half english to me haha! u says its much better to use Alpha-N, then this isnt any good for turbo motors, hopefully i'l sort it out when i comes to it lol
from wat i remember from msfi forums, alpha n isnt reliable way so i never looked into it, perhaps alpha n with map multiplication is different from plain alpha n, as follows from ur words. i also believe that i have the latest ms extra code in my black box

[slingy88]

now its half greek half english to me haha! u says its much better to use Alpha-N, then this isnt any good for turbo motors

For normally aspirated ITB's (individual throttle bodys) setups, Alpha-N will do all you need. But like i said, no good for boosted applications, where as Alpha-N with MAP Multiplication is.

If you've already got Extra code, thats great, just get yourself a registered copy of Tunerstudio and off you go :D
I can post Screen shots of all my setup menus if you want to have a look.

[slingy88]

Couple of bits of news.

Very Happy:cool::cool::cool:

Scored myself a Slabby 1100 engine for a shade over $500 complete with harness, coils and slingshot carbs .

i only want the motor so by the time i sell the shit i dont want it will be a virtually free motor.

At some point next year i will give it a rebuild and then swap it for the 813 motor i currently run.
I built my efi with enough capacity to run a turbo 1100 so just need a new manifold and turbo (possibly TD04-16t).
OOHH, thats gonna be fun .


And , got the slingshot booked in for a Dyno run on monday so we'll see whats it doing, good or bad ;)
Cant decide whether to leave it at 10psi boost or try and raise it abit for the dyno?

[ozzy1100]

your a very naughty boy............. cooler toys than mime will not be tolerated

[latheboy]

Couple of bits of news.

Very Happy:cool::cool::cool:

Scored myself a Slabby 1100 engine for a shade over $500 complete with harness, coils and slingshot carbs .

i only want the motor so by the time i sell the shit i dont want it will be a virtually free motor.

At some point next year i will give it a rebuild and then swap it for the 813 motor i currently run.
I built my efi with enough capacity to run a turbo 1100 so just need a new manifold and turbo (possibly TD04-16t).
OOHH, thats gonna be fun .


And , got the slingshot booked in for a Dyno run on monday so we'll see whats it doing, good or bad ;)
Cant decide whether to leave it at 10psi boost or try and raise it abit for the dyno?

Don't turn the boost up that would be silly, run it as it is and get yourself a bench mark.
Then turn it up later.

[slingy88]

Just finnished replacing the fork seals !!!! How can they fail when all its done is sat in the shed for 6months.

Latheboy, think i'll follow your advise, though i might throw the turbosmart boost controller on and have a bit of a play anyway.
How succesfull is using compressed air to set wastegates opening pressures, to just give a ball park starting figure.
i know its not that accurate when put into practice, just wondered, or if anyone has any tips.

[slingy88]

Ok, dyno day!!!!
Bit ashamed to post this actually, but here goes.

Origional dyno sheet.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750 slingshot/100_0484Medium.jpg

Todays dyno sheet.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750 slingshot/dynograph.jpg

Generally a bit of a crap day.
1.HTC kept dropping out, coming up with errors etc.
2. bike speedo, even though it was quite a good one is erratic at best!
3. bike had a stumble at low throttle openings that hadnt been there before.
4. Deffinately need some mirrors!
5.Dyno guys wouldnt let me in to film it on the dyno.
6. Because of the htc issues i couldnt log the run so have no idea what boost it was actually running.
the last log i did it was 9-10psi so can only pressume it was similar.
7. The head gasket gave up the ghost on the dyno, so know i have copious amounts of oil leaking out of the left hand side of the head gasket????

On the plus, handles nice with flat bars and is far more comfy.

Mmmm, feel a bit dispondant about it all know............

Was looking forward to just riding it a bit, now, after only an hour of riding, i'm back to a topend rebuild. GGGGRRRR..........

[evad]

Bugger, thats a pity. Hang in there bud youll get it sorted

[Yella]

All part of the fun you will sort it

[slingy88]

this is the first mechanical failure of any kind with the motor so been quite lucky really i suppose.

So, i think the plan will be to get the head off asap, new gaskets, general health check and back together.

But, i want to upgrade the studs, but i'm pretty sure they dont make em for my motor, so, either get 1100 ones and make thick washers to take up the extra length,( But this could be as much as 14mm so might not be room to do this) or give the studs the flick altogether and use high tensile socket head bolts.


The other oppatunity this gives me is to raise the compression a bit, as when i ftted the ZX10 pistons, the crown heights were about 2mm lower than stock, so bad squish and lower comp than i would have liked (like 7.5-1) .

So, i'll measure this propperly then get the barrel machined down do get the squish back and raise the comp back up a bit. So should give me better pick up as well, and once the stronger bolts are in i,ll have no fear in raising boost, as the only fear i had was the headgasket failing and thats happened now.;)

[Surt]

sorry to hear about ur issues slingy sure u'll sort em out

[latheboy]

That is disappointing but 1 thing you need know is.

Dyno Dynamics and Dynojet dynos will give you different readings of power.

Dyno Dynamics power is recorded at the wheel, whereas Dynojet is Crank power.
From now on try and use the same brand of dyno, be it ours or theirs, that way you know if you're gaining or losing.

It was a 30°C day and high humidity, this is not a good day for running on the dyno.
I don't know if DJ has atmospheric correction.

Your AFR looks good until 10500RPM when it goes rich and it's a bit rich at 6000 RPM but still ok.

You might want to look into helicoiling the cases when you ungrade the studs.

[slingy88]

That is disappointing but 1 thing you need know is.

Dyno Dynamics and Dynojet dynos will give you different readings of power.

Dyno Dynamics power is recorded at the wheel, whereas Dynojet is Crank power.
From now on try and use the same brand of dyno, be it ours or theirs, that way you know if you're gaining or losing.

It was a 30°C day and high humidity, this is not a good day for running on the dyno.
I don't know if DJ has atmospheric correction.

Your AFR looks good until 10500RPM when it goes rich and it's a bit rich at 6000 RPM but still ok.

You might want to look into helicoiling the cases when you ungrade the studs.

Crank Power hay, well that means its even worse than it looks!! SHIIIT!!

Pretty pleased with the AFR considering its only had street riding with the auto tune. Not surprised with the top 10500 plus readings as very rarely hit that area on the street for long enough for it to do any good.

Why Helicoil? whats the advantage?

[ALBI]

That is disappointing but 1 thing you need know is.

Dyno Dynamics and Dynojet dynos will give you different readings of power.

Dyno Dynamics power is recorded at the wheel, whereas Dynojet is Crank power.
From now on try and use the same brand of dyno, be it ours or theirs, that way you know if you're gaining or losing.

It was a 30°C day and high humidity, this is not a good day for running on the dyno.
I don't know if DJ has atmospheric correction.

Your AFR looks good until 10500RPM when it goes rich and it's a bit rich at 6000 RPM but still ok.

You might want to look into helicoiling the cases when you ungrade the studs.
what about thread serts???

[latheboy]

Helicoils spead the load as the thread is bigger than the bolt you're putting into it.

Thread serts are fine if you want to use them too i guess !!!!!!

I didn't know about the colours until yesterday!!!!

I might use them all the time too !!!!!

Or maybe not.

[ALBI]

i prefer to use the thread serts as it is basicly a sleeve that locks into place and has no chance of unwinding or having the thread"as in the helicoil.

[Deano]

but threadserts are a larger diameter outer diameter

text colors are gay Ivan

fonts are were its at

[BANDITROD]

hahahahahahahaha

[ozzy1100]

gold lol

[latheboy]

Threadserts are for sheet metal guys, good luck using them to hold the head and barrels on if you so choose.

[ALBI]

Threadserts are for sheet metal guys, good luck using them to hold the head and barrels on if you so choose.



some call them thread serts and some call them time-serts http://www.timesert.com/

deeno yes they but even with helicoils you have to drill out larger hole anyway and retap new outer thread for helicoil to bite into??
if you have the room to fit an thread sert"time-sert" we go that way everytime if there is enough material to do so!!

you are thinking of are nutserts https://www.bolt.com.au/nuts-nutserts-c-1010_1086_1264.html

[latheboy]

From your link.
PROFESSIONAL THREAD REPAIR SYSTEM
SCREW THREAD INSERTS AMERICAN & METRIC SIZES

Fucking wanker americans....

"you are thinking of are nutserts" Yes, yes I was.

[Redmohawk]

I've used all 3 systems , if the original thread in case is long and in good condition (helicoil and thread serts mostly max out at about 20mm long in dia suitable for head bolts) I'd be sticking with the original thread and new bolts.

[Deano]

Timeserts are not available in as many sizes as helicoils
As an example m10 helicoils use a 10.40mm drill
M10 timeserts use a 12.50 drill (light duty thin wall inserts only)
M10 heavy duty timeserts use14.50 drill

Helicoils available up to 3.0xdiameter so 30mm installed length based on m10 thread

Helicoils can be removed and replaced. Timeserts can't easily and only seem to be available in 1 length (14mm long for m10)

Horses for coarses really

[ozzy1100]

im with deano with this 1 helicoils but do know people who say timeserts all the way but i have never had a prob with helicoils
and have used them on some hairy shit

[Redmohawk]

I wasnt aware heli went that long , I'd still swing towards original thread improved (longer)/better bolt than heli. But if its messed up at all heli are my choice over threadsert. I hate nutserts with a passion though I've put a few 1000 of them in with air so prob why.

[slingy88]

ok, just finnished pulling it apart, and head gasket looks ok. looks more like the o-ring around the front left stud has gone hard and failed.
So, a rebuild with new genuine gaskets and o-ring will resume unless anyone can recomend a good aftermarket gasket set?.
The pistons are .88mm down from the top of the barrel with the barrel re compressed. I thought it was more, so may not bother getting it machined, just reasemble with some stronger studs.
Oh also found a nipple on the back of the plenum that had nothing connected to it or plugged, so just an open 6mm hole. Dont know how i missed that one but would have caused a bit of a boost leak. Will tap it and plug propperly while out.

Will keep yah posted

[ALBI]

you gunna throw some new rings at her whilst appart??

[slingy88]

you gunna throw some new rings at her whilst appart??

The ZX10 pistons i put in only had delivery K's on em so were like new anyway, so will probably leave the rings for a moment. It dosnt smoke or nothing.

The CR is low because the ZX10 pistons are a flat top compared to the dome top of the GSXR pistons. This coupled with them stopping 0.88mm down the bore at TDC has left the comp too low really. I double checked it last night and it is actually nearer 7:1 as it stands.
If i could machine down the barrel 0.8 and the same skimmed off the head, i'd have 8.8:1. still low but a heap better.

[slingy88]

Right, just a quick update.

Have ordered all new OEM gaskets and O-rings to rebuild top end as well as APE heavyduty head studs.
They only make the studs for the 1100 so will have to machine up some thick washers to take up the difference, but nothing above where the studs are in the head so shouldnt effect anything.

[slingy88]

I'd just like to start by saying a Very Mery christmas to all and i hope everyone drank and ate far too much ;)

Ok, back to the important stuff, all my gaskets and APE studs have turned up so will set about putting it back together over the next few days.

I have read a lot about using only 1 lamination of the stock head gasket to raise compression so am thinking about doing this as well, rather than machining the block to help with my poor squish.
Anyone had any experiance doing this? Good idea, bad idea.....What do you guys reckon?
I cant see any drawbacks to it. The Rover V8's i used to work on only had a single lamination steel gasket as standard, so its nothing new. From what i've read, drill the rivits out, seperate the laminations, coppergaskte spray one up and use it.

But like i say, all inputs welcome.

[slingy88]

AARRRRRRRRRRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks 2012, what the fuck did i do to you to fuck me over soooooooooooooooo bad before you finaly leave us???

BASTARD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the rant but fuck me. Just spent 2 hours trying to get the last cylinder stud out to finally have it snap off flush with the case!!!!

So, no quick rebuild for me then. Fuck i hate bikes some times!!!!!.

Looks like the cheap 11 motor i picked up is gonna get the gaskets and APE studs ( though now i'm shitting about getting them out of that motor now!!). But this means clutch mods, exhaust mods, possible fuel tap clearance issues and all sorts of shit i didnt want to do now.

OH, GOD, So bloody angry, just wanted to bolt it up and use it abit!!!!!!!

[slingy88]

Ok peeps,

thought i'd better kick off a few updates.

the 1100 engine is apart getting cleaned and checked.

750 has been stripped and started selling . Made $810 so far ;)

So this has funded buying some goodies.

So far, TD04H-13T turbo, a heap of stainless bends for the header and dump pipe, GSX650F Clutch slave (as the banjo bolts on at a better angle to clear my outrigger bearing), and have found lazer cutting is my new favourite thing. Youtube learnt me how to use Autocad, so now i have a decomp plate, and all stainless flanges for the new exhaust.
Below is the decomp plate with the oem gasket.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750 slingshot/08022013111_zpsc6f85e90.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750 slingshot/08022013113_zpsccc4cf81.jpg

Sure beats the grinder lol
I'll post some more piccy's of progress and the sorry state of the bike soon.

Thinking abit about making a combined intercooler/oilcooler for it as well this time but will have to see once engine is in.

Done a quick mock up tonite and geez, the 1052cc motor in the 88 750 frame is TIGHT!! can just assemble top end in frame and get cam cover on over cams and chain guide.;)

[Yella]

Nice mate, The 88 frame is tight. Looks like you have it all in hand

[latheboy]

WHAT.... you're selling that 750 motor after all that?

Oh well it did it's job.

Laser cutting is unreal, get onto Solidwords or Inventor instead of AutoCad.
Full 3D stuff.

[ozzy1100]

mmnnn laser cut

[slingy88]

WHAT.... you're selling that 750 motor after all that?

Oh well it did it's job.

Laser cutting is unreal, get onto Solidwords or Inventor instead of AutoCad.
Full 3D stuff.

Yeah, i know, but the only way to fix the broken cylinder stud properly was to take the 750 block out, strip the shit out of it to get the top cank case off, then take that to a machine shop for a propper repair reclaimation.
Then put the whole lot back together!! Far more tempting to put the 1100 motor in and turbo that lol.
I'll take a look at them at them other cad programs as well. cheers

[Surt]

noice to see ur goin for bigger cc and still growin fat on that mate!
yup a laser cutter beats an angel grinder but only if u have ur own do u?
more pics!

[slingy88]

Well seems like an age since i updated and not got as much done as i would have liked.

The 11 motor has been stripped cleaned and the bare cases painted. These have then been bolted back into the frame.

Next, i started on modding the outrigger tor take a GSF650 slave cylinder.

So through the faceplate on the Shun Shin and turned a recess for the face of the slave cylinder to sit in.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/17032013116_zps5fb6cdd1.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/17032013115_zps9a2ec05e.jpg

[slingy88]

Then drilled an tapped one mounting hole as the other lined up with one of the cover mounting bolts.

The slave cylinder overlapped the bearing support so one of the holes for that was blocked off with a grub screw then i marked and cut a scallop out of the support.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/26032013118_zps6af76c6f.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/26032013119_zps972de3bd.jpg

[slingy88]

Then i painted to match the block and fitted

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/26032013122_zps795941f4.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/26032013121_zps501a05e6.jpg

[xa-mont]

good stuff mate. love proper progress shots like this. i'm generally too involved in what i'm doing to remember to take photos :P

[slingy88]

Then with the slave fitted as well

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/26032013124_zpsf502ce26.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/26032013123_zpsa6ef327d.jpg

[slingy88]

good stuff mate. love proper progress shots like this. i'm generally too involved in what i'm doing to remember to take photos :P

Cheers mate. I dont take as many as i probably should as like you say, i get too involved in what i am doing ;)

[slingy88]

Then i turned up some thick stainless washers and welded together to make the boss's, then welded them to the mandrel bends for the start of the headers

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/26032013126_zpsfc4d9994.jpg

Then i also welded one half of the Vband fitting to the turbo inlet flange, then after welding, through that on the lathe and faced it off to end up with this.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/26032013127_zpsa12f8aaa.jpg

[slingy88]

Then i mocked up the top end of the motor including my spacer under the barrel and some old gaskets to get the height right and started mocking up for new turbo placement.
So, the plan is, stock oil cooler in stock position and turbo as can be seen is going low and tight to the motor.
Inner header pipes are going to run very close to the motor, while the outer 2 header pipes will follow the frame down then turn in quite close to the turbo.
This will give me enough clearance to run the intercooler under the oil cooler and above the turbo. It will become clearer as i get more of it in.
The eagle eyed amongst you might notice the front frame cross member missing in the photos. This is necesary to get the centre 2 header pipes close enought to the engine to allow this intercooler arrangement to fit.
I will replace the cross member by remaking the front 2 engine mounting plates out of steel with an extended top, then a fabricated steel cross brace will bolt in inbetween these plates and fit around the header.
I think it should all look quite neat when done and MTC used to do this with there bandit turbo kit.
Anyway, here's some pics of where i am up to and the rough position of the turbo.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/26032013130_zpsd9372101.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/26032013129_zps7ba86d29.jpg

[slingy88]

Final one for the moment.

I have a complete set of the iconic Turbo Bike publications by Joe Hayle up for grabs so rather than just ebaying them i thought i would give you good, good folk first dibs. No money required, i'm talking barter town.
I am after a clutch master cylinder.Something like a bandit 12 with integral resaviour and mirror mount would be great.
Also i need some decent carb rubbers to fit my 1052cc motor. I dont really care what they are off as long as fit and in good condition. I am using GPZ 34mm Tb,s but they seem to fit in the gsxr rubbers for 36's ok .
Got either or both items? Want to add these great pulications to your shed library, then PM me let the barter begin

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/27032013131_zpsdb6c570d.jpg

[ozzy1100]

sexy......

[slingy88]

Got the first inner runner done last night

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/043_zpsad8eeb9e.jpg

[slingy88]

And with the merge for the outer runners held in rough position.

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/044_zpsd498c836.jpg

[slingy88]

So this will let me mount the intercooler as below

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/045_zpsb64693b0.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/046_zpsa61ed9a9.jpg

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/047_zps30d53050.jpg

[Redmohawk]

Remote oil filter ? Might make life alot easyer .

[slingy88]

Remote oil filter ? Might make life alot easyer .

Yeah, thought about it, but its just something else to mount, more hoses etc. Thats why i'm using the V band fitting between the header and turbo, and will use one on the outlet as well, so with just the 2 V-bands,1 silicone house and maybe oil lines i can drop the turbo down to change the filter.

[Redmohawk]

Prob a better setup, wouldnt mind betting the oil filter paint might blister though lol

[slingy88]

Prob a better setup, wouldnt mind betting the oil filter paint might blister though lol

Yep, probably right but i'd rather try and keep it simpler for starters. If it dont work out i can change it later. The 1100 sump is alot flatter than the 750 which gives a fair bit more space to work with which is always handy.

[slingy88]

Just like to say a big thanks to EVAD for coming round and putting up with listening to me rambling on for an age.

Top bloke indeed.:cool:

[evad]

Thanks Jack, I really enjoyed meeting you in person and talking bikes. Love what youve done with your gixxer.
great to have another squirter in the suburb :rolleyes:

[slingy88]

Yes Dave, us squirters are a rare breed, so is great to have someone else so close .

[ozzy1100]

Yes Dave, us squirters are a rare breed, so is great to have someone else so close .

that dosnt sound just right............
but yes dave is a great squirter lol

[Surt]

looks like you mutilated a brain new cooler slingy, now thats my way!
any progress with the mutilated htc?

[slingy88]

I think Daves brain was mutilated before i got to it Surt lol. He's got some cool sounding projects going on which will all be squirted. Fuck yeah !!!!

I sent the HTC to my brother. Hes replaced Vista with 7 which has made it about 3 times faster. Next he is going to write some software and add it to the start up menu to overcome the issue of everytime you start up windows and it finds a bluetooth device it seems to assign it a different comm port to the last time. But in tunerstudio you have to assign it a comm port to find its microsquirt connection, so if windows keep changing which one its using then you have to keep changing it in tunerstudio which is VERY tedious. So, anyway, hopefully that will get it alot more usable and more just turn on and go.

Your machine is looking great Surt. Wish i could progress mine as fast. I can wait for you to get it going and start playing with the EFI :D

[Surt]

thanks heap Jack, can't wait either! just a few bits left, the tank, seat, oil coollers mounts, ducts and wiring....mmm mask too lol

[slingy88]

Got a few more hours in so heres how its looking now

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/21042013152_zps6837862f.jpg (http://s557.photobucket.com/user/slingy88/media/750%20slingshot/21042013152_zps6837862f.jpg.html)

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/21042013153_zpsabf3b0c6.jpg (http://s557.photobucket.com/user/slingy88/media/750%20slingshot/21042013153_zpsabf3b0c6.jpg.html)

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/21042013154_zps5764ecf1.jpg (http://s557.photobucket.com/user/slingy88/media/750%20slingshot/21042013154_zps5764ecf1.jpg.html)

http://i557.photobucket.com/albums/ss11/slingy88/750%20slingshot/21042013155_zps8d6a19d2.jpg (http://s557.photobucket.com/user/slingy88/media/750%20slingshot/21042013155_zps8d6a19d2.jpg.html)