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So new hugger is in place needs some tweaking but all is good
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL69.../398520252.jpg
New base plate for plenum almost ready
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL69.../398520273.jpg
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL69.../398520264.jpg
Need to hurry the fuck up but again with no time with work and study and kids ETC but enough of me crying about it back to work
Plenum take 2 is coming alone..............
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL69.../398709380.jpg
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL69.../398709327.jpg
The combo of trial and error (mostly error) and being a tight arse will work out one day
Looking good mate
Ok so it is up and running again heaps better than last time out but has a splutter at low revs/as boost comes on. As the RPM climbs it clears and revs clean still not great but better. I have dropped the float level and adjusted the mixer screw out to 4 turns waiting for the rain to clear so I can try another run.. Booked in for a dyno run next weekend aswell so hopefully should get it sorted.
Anyone got any tips, hits, anything really they wanna put throw in the ring
The only pic I took today was of the exhaust when I checked to see if I have any oil bypass so here it is.
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL69.../398831722.jpg
Will grab some more tomorrow
Ok Looking for help from people that have done this before.
Just as boost starts to rise at part throttle the bike is a pig miss fires splutter and wont rev. If I pin it open it will pull past and rev to limiter not perfectly but OKish. I am going to look at the needle height now any idea's would be appreciated
Do you have an afr meter if so what is it doing? If not get one
This is one of the problems I found with carbs & turbos, I came to the conclusion I was in need of custom needles,I tried all sorts of needles from all kinds of bikes & jet kits, nothing worked well, thats when I went to EFI. Tried using heavier CV springs, air bleeds all sorts of stuff & nothing gave the result I wanted. When doing your tests have you got an AFR meter hooked up my guess is it's going from about right to real lean when it comes on boost then rich, it's this transition that's the hardest to tune. Ready for efi yet??
Yep I need to get one (A/F Meter) will see if I can order one tomorrow.
Cleaned the carbs raised the needles put it all back together and it would not start
Fuelled up another set of plugs.
New plugs and fire straight up but now wont idle. Time to go inside and see the kids look some more tomorrow.
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL69.../398847140.jpg
and the sight glass is leaking now just a little
Don't get a cheap one. Be prepared to spend $500 or more. I have one from www.wbo2.com.au works great.
Also you need wide band not narrow band
Are you using a rising rate fuel reg?
How does it get its boost. I have a pitot pipe just fot the reg.
Have you drill a hole from the carby bore to under neath the slide diaframe?
How much fuel pressure have you got when off boost and do you have a good free flowing return to the tank?
Everything I have read says if the bike coughs or stumbles on transition, the pitot isn't working
Quote:
quote:Originally posted by latheboy
Are you using a rising rate fuel reg?
How does it get its boost. I have a pitot pipe just fot the reg.
Have you drill a hole from the carby bore to under neath the slide diaframe?
How much fuel pressure have you got when off boost and do you have a good free flowing return to the tank?
Everything I have read says if the bike coughs or stumbles on transition, the pitot isn't working
Are you using a rising rate fuel reg?
Yes 1:1
How does it get its boost. I have a pitot pipe just fot the reg.
I have it taking it from the ref pipe for the carbs
Have you drill a hole from the carby bore to under neath the slide diaframe?
Not sure what you mean? It has a factory hole to the bottom of the diaphram from the plenum
How much fuel pressure have you got when off boost and do you have a good free flowing return to the tank?
2.5psi and yes
That sounds all good bar the ref for the reg.
I don't have a picture of my pitot but this is a sectioned solidworks model.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/...sy2section.jpg
The two on top go to the carb over flows and the one on the bottom goes to the reg only.
I tried two other styles of pitot before this and they didn't work, now it rev's cleanly onto boost and doesn't cough or stumble at all.
Not sure what you mean? It has a factory hole to the bottom of the diaphram from the plenum
This is good cause i had to drill a hole in my carbs.
Sounds like the fuel is getting pushed back Into the bowls.
You need to pressurize the float bowls to stop this happening
[quote]quote:Originally posted by yella
The ref you speak off, is it before or after the butterfly in the carbs?Quote:
Originally posted by latheboy
Are you using a rising rate fuel reg?
Yes 1:1
How does it get its boost. I have a pitot pipe just fot the reg.
I have it taking it from the ref pipe for the carbs
If it behind it won't work.
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL69.../398847140.jpg
I have taken the ref point from small pipe across the intake stream before the plenum (inbetween the 2 black hoses) it is the 2 yellow hoses on it
Have you got boost hooked up to your over flows on the carby's from your pitot?
looking at getting one of these
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/p...XL_All_Web.jpg
Innovate Motorsports Digital MTX Series Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge utilizes the only 100% digital Wideband air/fuel ratio technology on the market! The award-winning patented DirectDigital™ technology we use is faster and more accurate than common “UEGO” gauges and is now more affordable! In addition, the gauge features a water resistant casing, interchangeable faceplates and bezels, and 2 fully programmable linear analog outputs for use with aftermarket engine managements systems and dataloggers!
KEY FEATURES
• The only 100% digital wideband air/fuel ratio technology!
• Water Resistant 52mm (2 1/16”) round dash-mountable casing is perfect for automotive, powersports, marine, and demanding racing applications
• Built-in Direct Digital™ Wideband Controller reduces wiring and simplifies installation (No LC-1 required)
• Wideband O2 Sensor is compatible with all fuel types (Leaded, Unleaded, Diesel, Methanol, E85, etc)
• Ability to calibrate O2 sensor for increased accuracy
• (2) 0-5v fully programmable linear analog outputs for use with engine management systems “closed-loop” and external dataloggers
• Interchangeable faceplates and bezels: Black and silver bezel, black and white faceplates included
• Large digital readout and programmable “Digital Needle” provides the functionality of a needle style gauge with the pinpoint accuracy of a digital display
• Datalog using LogWorks on your PC
• Serial IN and OUT ports allows for easy
MTX-L: (POWERSPORTS) Complete All-In-One Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge Kit. Includes: Gauge, Silver Bezel, Black Bezel, White Faceplate, Black Faceplate, Bosch O2 Sensor, 3ft. Sensor Cable (Overall length 4.5ft.), Exhaust Bung, Program Cable (Only needed for Datalogging and to change the Fuel Type Setting), Software CD, and Quick Start Guide. P/N: 3845,
I have hooked the pressure ref from the intake up to the factory float bowl pressure hose the one normally joined by the plastic tee going to the pollution gear( Point B See below ) use to equalise the pressure from the ram air in stock bikes
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d6...ZX7r-Pipes.jpg
Hey yella,rockets turbo gsxr1100 was a bastard to get to run correctly, one thing that made a big improvement to low speed running was when we hooked the pressure sence hose to the vacum point in the inlet manifold that you normaly syncronise the carbs,as the advice i got was at idle it would pull the fuel pressure down as opposed to where the pressure sence tube was on the bottom of the plennum chamber..i dont know if it will help but worth a try..but at the end of the day Exben's advice rings true that blowthrough turbo/carbs can be a fuckin headache and rocket is now talking injection ..good luck dude!!
Injection is on the cards but not just yet.
I was thinking the same with the pressure ref lines I currently have that hooked up for the gauge and the BOV but I cant see how it would work at part throttle and everything I read tells me to have it in the intake stream.
Had a carb turbo here today , (god i like injection) but we did manage to get it better in transition, now just need to customise the needles, Yammie 426 dirt squirter,he had a 3g gauge with lc1 wideband controller, but it lacked the boost referencing and logging, i think a dl32 or wbo2 3a/3e http://wbo2.com/3a1/default.htm or a AEM aq1 would have been better
as you realy need logging to tune on the road, even gauges and a camera would be better than trying to watch and interpret while riding
I think in the long run it will end up with a simple injection fuel only system like the microtech lt4
Yella how are your needles and seats coping with the pressures, we found the yammy was marginal with very little base pressure, on boost the carb referencing was spraying a good rate of fuel and air out of the carb overflow, not much in volume when captured but sure looked more
Would a valve fitted between the vacume points (carb balance fittings) on the carbs, linked to the pitot tube float chambers work ?
The valve would have to be switched by a vacumbe/boost switch this would alow you to drop pressure in the fuel bowl at low boost/vac conditions then switch to the boost referance once a preset level it attained. Simple to set up with off the shelf bits but prob tricky to get right.
Two way valves off 80's to 90's toyotas can be had for free from the weckers one pipe is switched between two one is linked when valve is "off" apply 12 volts and it switches to the other. A ajustable pressure switch on the boost side wouls work easy enough to switch it.
i had a microtech mt-4. it worked, but not very well. it worked well on boost but off boost was crap. Bikes have a lot of cam overlap and therefore a "jumpy" manifold pressure.the microtech would not calculate fast enough and in TPS mode did not have enough adjusments. when i changed to the Autronic SM4 it gave me an extra 40hp and perfect throttle. I did contemplate running carbies with a microtech to squirt fuel on boost only into the plenum. don't know how weel it would work though.
They seem to be holding up OK I had the system pressure up at 12psi the other day and everything looked like it was holding together well. Will be rechecking over the weekendQuote:
quote:Originally posted by Booster
Yella how are your needles and seats coping with the pressures, we found the yammy was marginal with very little base pressure, on boost the carb referencing was spraying a good rate of fuel and air out of the carb overflow, not much in volume when captured but sure looked more
Had absolutely no probs with the mt 4, using tps with boost on top , very simple, easy to use for a first timer, fit and ride in a day , not saying the autronic etc are not better , just a case of what do you need and how much do you want to spend..
If i wanted better than the microtech , the next step would be a fuel and ign ecu probably from link, like the atom, or Vipec
, next up would be the Autronic, Motec
Fitted up the A/F guage complete with getto fab mounts :D:D
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKvq7wCMrqw[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqijkvMBuzM[/youtube]
Figured I would see if I can upload vids seems I can [8D][8D]
Tomorrow some real testing
Now you need to mount the camera where you can see the tach, boost gauge and a/f
A/f looks good so far what a/f are you aiming at idle, cruise.full throttle,on boost ?
Does look good.
For idle i would try and get it fairly lean but not lean enough for it to sneeze or cough.
I got mine to 12.2:1 at full boost WOT. Safe is good, but I could lean it out a bit more if i wanted.
It's hard with carbies, in a perfect world i'd aim for 12.5:1.
Looking to get it around the 12.5ishmark but will have to see how it goes.
Its sitting at about 10 I think and fouling plugs as the boost comes on (running like a pig) Thinking of getting a slightly smaller slow jet and some smaller mains and see what I can do. Before I do that the shutter speed on my camera and the flicker rate digital displays is in sync when I go out in sun light so I can not see the displays when I head out. Gunna try and sheild the camera so it thinks its in the dark and slows the shutter speed to the same as when im in the shed and see if I can get a run that I can watch to see WTF is happening.
Has anyone filled and redrilled the holes smaller in the slides?
If i ran my bikes at 12 or leaner on boost i get melted pistons, but rich misfires easier , so the compromise is to gap the plugs tight, like .018th and run ~11.5 on boost and mid 12 to 13 off , at this a/f on the long runs my egt stabilises at 1680 deg F and can hold that for a long time , thats taking the egt from the turbo inlet,
seen busa's on the dyno give troubles at 12.0 at only 6 psi
And yet we had a malfunction of a map sensor at Bonneville this year and ran for 5 miles at 16-17:1 AF without doing damage ... just not enough fuel to make cyl temp , but boy was the egt hot, went beyond the 2000 deg f of out k type thermocouple
I think I will follow what you are saying and try to get it to run at 11.5 or so being this is my first don't want it to end in tears to quick and you guy's know better[8D].
Knocked up a quick phone/camera bracket that I can bolt tothe tank and cable tie the phone into seems to work OK not flash but works.
On the test today the only gauge I could see in the vids was the fuel and it was heading up to 10 PSI at almost no boost so tried a couple of different ways of doing the hoses but ended up back as it was just cleaned up a bit and with a MIG tip in the line to try and reduce the pulses seems better.
By the time I got back to the bike it was dark so no need for a screen or lense for the camera :D:D so out I went.
As you can see from the short vid as soon as I open the throttle A/F goes to 10. You can see it down to 10 as I open the throttle and back to 12ish as I roll off, back to 10 as I open again etc etc and the bike misses and farts.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTWS-zcvJQo[/youtube]
Main jets are 150/160,float level is down 3mm, stock needles and mixture is out 1 1/4, stock slow jet.
Think I will order some smaller main jets and smaller slow jets tomorrow and keep trying.
Your af gauge probably don't read lower than 10 so it could be even richer than that
I was thinking the same then found this
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/p...uelTypeWeb.jpg
But will the sensor measure that low?
Dunno seems odd it but I will have to work on it.
Does anyone know any good places to get 99101-393 main jets heaps of people say thay have them but whenI check no stock will keep on looking
found em, all good, everyone stop looking :D:D local so should have them Tuesday
Also found a place in the US to get bulk 50,100 qty jets for $1.30 a jet so may get a bag just to have them
Doesn't have to read that low, each reading of different fuel types is a calibration of the 0-5v signal as long as you have that a reference chart you can use the gasoline figures , or lambda may even be easier as its applicable to all fuel types , just have to get your head around the numbers
From what I've read on the innovate stuff (I have 2) there good kit when setup correctly the linear ouput will only display from 7.35 to 22 but the way the sensor is digitally operated widens its operating range far more than old analog wide band systems.
I'm going to use the same as above to tune the gimp on E85 this is happy far richer than any petrol setup, with raw fuel being spat out the exhaust at just off idle and opening the throttle unleashes lots of fun when you would think it far to rich to even run.
Down to 128/132 mains and farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrk me :D:D:D:D:D:D:D it moves now.
A/F gets down to high 9 on the transistion and sits at about 10.5 on boost as best I can see when going and the video is rubbish can't see shit need a better camera.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_9vgJmtv6c[/youtube]
As it comes on either the front lifts or the clutch lets go :D:D[8D][8D]:D:D[8D][8D]:D:D[8D][8D]:D:D gunna add some heavy duty spring order some more smaller jets again (only went down to 128 didn't think it would need that small but live and learn)
Yes I am happy buuuuuuuuuuuuuut I did note some oil in the intake not sure whats going on may need a reseal after all.
Next will be the radiator and intercooler but that will be a little later running out of time and hope to get it out for NFR maybe will have to see what I can swing.