fuel injection megasquirt

[Redmohawk]

Anybody played with the megasquirt diy fuel injection computers on a bike on here? I have a board just chasing parts to populate it atm.

[Iceman]

Evad was playing with the a couple of years ago.

[ozzy1100]

quote:Originally posted by Iceman

Evad was playing with the a couple of years ago.



yer he had it on his z 650 and could tune it with his palm pall on the bars lol he was very happy with it for the price

[livewire]

Yeah, I have MS1 on CutKat.
I bought full parts kit for it and Jimstim (test rig) and assembled/ tested myself.
Works fine.
In process of getting over to Boosters to dyno tune.
Be advised, heaps involved in getting everything fitted up and plumbed, wired etc.
I found making the 'box' the easiest part. But there's heaps more to injection than just that.
Be sure to follow the instructions and test it as you put it together.
G

[pommie02]

I ran the megasquirt for a while.
I ended up blowing up my original ignition module, but don't let that put you off.
I used, gsxr750 throttle bodies, bosch fuel pump and regulator. it was great until i blew up my ecu on the dyno...go on the forum

[evad]

Yep my zed has been squirted for 4 around 4 years now.
GDFTLjmo7ZE

You can but a complete kit from DIYAUTOTUNE in the states for us$140
they are great to deal with or you can get the parts to populate your board from digykey. You didnt mention if you have a version 2.2 or version 3 board but they can supply the components for either. Also are you running ms 1 or 2?

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/megasquirti-programmable-efi-system-pcb22-unassembled-kit-p-28.html

http://www.megamanual.com/msbom.htm

I Saw you were asking about TBs in a different thread, have a look here to find dimensions etc for a list of TBs

http://www.megamanual.com/msbom.htm

Like live wire said build the ecu step by step and test as per the megamanual along the way as it braks the build into various portions that you test as you go on so you dont have hassles tring to fault find teh whole thing when you are finished. Im a marine fitter by trade so I had no electronic know how and I managed to build it and run the bike on it so anyone can do it and like pommie02 said all the info is on the forum plus about 20000 guys you can ask questions

[Redmohawk]

Thanks to all for the info and links very handy, I'm an old electronics tech from back when you had to fix stuff instead of throw it out .
I was given the board must dig it out it came with essential had to get components and test board only, I will get component population kit asap. Will have to get board out to see version but is an old one been in my shed for 5 years might be better just ordering another new whole kit with latest version etc. I think I've got a set of bolt on TB's comming by the sounds of it so thats sorted and have a bussa pump in good order here so one the way to boost! I had a drag car with 2L 6cyl running 24pounds and around 400kw mesured at the wheels several years back so have some experiance with this sort of fun ! But Injection was a drive in drive out situation that time.

[livewire]

Neat video Evad. Looks essentually the same as the one I did of mine.
Whats the O2 reader? I just built up a Tech Edge kit, but need to view it on laptop.
Local display definately the go, or else 2 laptops, which sux a bit. Also I can't view
AFR (no, not that one) whilst riding, so yours a very good thing. I'm basicly stuck to the dyno
for tuning. Think I'll upgrade.
People using laptops with USB to serial adaptors, be aware of 'latency bit' problem, which causes
no comm's from laptop to equipment. Answer is get an USB-serial adaptor that works, not all do.
The one supplied by DYI Autotune does. I'd had 2 others from Dick Smith/ Jaycar previously for my
datalogger and programming two way radios, and it wasn't till I got the DYI one that anything worked.
Fucked me around heaps.
I agree with just buying a full kit. Think it will save time/ money in the long run.
Imagine trying to hunt down a mismatched micro fault, etc. Scary.
Suggest you get a Jimstim (tester) as well. Nice to be able to bench test it before you start
fitting it up.
G

[Redmohawk]

Ordered n paid for got to love net shopping lol. I have ver 2.2 board and ver 2 sim with processor map sensor and 8 pin 3415 chip here, might chase up components for other board later .

[livewire]

Good one.
Had another burst of enthusiasm and bought another USB-serial converter today, so I don't have to swap between MS programmer and O2
sensor/display. Lo and behold, it assigned another comm port (I was
under impression that done by program, not computer) and I can run both programs at once on 1 computer. Sweet.
Still haven't got 'mobile' O2 readings but, so still stuck at dyno tuning.

[evad]

G have you looked at megalog veiwer? it has a target afr table that you set to what you want and then you log with the palm pda, download the log into mlv then run it through the ve analyser part of mlv and it adjusts your fuel table to your target afr but you MUST have aWB02 set up a NB one is not good enough.

http://www.efianalytics.com/megalogviewer/veAnalysis.html

SYggN_4BEZE

[evad]

G the wbo2 is a techedge 2eo diy unit, it was more complicated to build than the ms was, lol. I can display any of the inputs or outputs from the ms on the palm which is an old palm 3c ( cheap, just as well as I have trashed 4 when they fell out the cradle.... must really put velcro on the cradle and palm). The beauty with tuning by logging with the palm is you can concentrate on the road instead of trying to watch the display. Are you running spark yet?
RMH once you have the unit built change it over to the extra cose there are heaps more features :) as well as a bigger table

[evad]

have you looked at he palm based software on the ms site?
The palm tune one allows you to change things on the side of the road and allows you to set a particular bin in the table and displays, palm log logs everything for you to tune using mlv.
one of the programs saves your last good tune (msq) in case you stuff up totally and get stuck on the side of the road and you can burn it to the ms from the palm pda

http://www.msefi.com/viewforum.php?f=73&sid=3e2dd1c0e18464326d116805531196b1

[livewire]

Hey Dave, thanks for the tips.
Think I'm gunna source the palm bits and also a remote display for the O2 sensor.
As well as interface O2 into MS1
Think I may also have problems with inlet valve springs going 'off' and mucking up map sensing.
Has mucked me round to the point where I've even tried alpha-n (revs/ tp bins) tuning instead of VE mapping,
but still struggling, hence the need for dyno so I can see whats really going on.
I'm flat out steering the bastard thing when it starts cracking, let alone try and sus out other stuff.
Also the autotune bit looks the go, too.
Thanks for that,
G
PS Sorry for the hijack, RMH

[livewire]

Hey Evad,
Would it be possible for you to take a photo of your VE table, basic settings
and enrichments,and post it up for me to have a squizz.
I'm pretty curious to see if mine similar at all, even just the 'shape' of the table.
I've done a lot of guessing, and whilst it runs and has a bit of a go, it's
a long way from right.
Certainly makes you appreciate how good some factory stuff is, and you just
take it for granted.
I haven't hooked up coolant temp yet, Kat got no H2O, was gunna put a temp sensor in oil gallery.
Just got resistors in at moment to set at 80 degree F. Doesn't help with starting at all, and a lot
of guesstimates for a lot of things.
I'm rather keen to get it sorted, to say the least. A lot of work, and nearly there, but it's
no good till it's right, eh.

[evad]

hey G are you running megatune on the laptop?
PM me your email and ill mail you my msq, forgot to mention that I run alpha-n not enough of a map signal range for a decent low load running and I have a mild set of cams etc not monsters like you are running :-)
If I was you I would try alpha-n and once you are used to tuning it try hte hybrid alpha-n which is alpha-n at low map rpm end of the table and then switches tables to speed density.
I run ntn thermisters for inlet air temp and engine temp they are the size of a match head and cheap as, engine temp is epoxied into a cable lug under one of the cam box cover bolts and the IAT is a small hex head with a 4 or 5mm nut, I got them from farnells. You just have to use the easytherm program on msefi.com to generate a file that the ms can read. Let me know if you are interested asnd Ill give you the info and part numbers
here is the manual for the extra code for both of you guys :-)


And list of what the different ms models do

http://www.msextra.com/doc/index.html



http://www.msextra.com/doc/ms2extra/MS2-Extra_general.htm#features

[livewire]

Neat trick with the thermistors. I bought a GM one with kit, big ugly fucker.
And temp coolant spec'ed at 2.2 k, which is odd value( numbers from memory).
Will get onto farnell for replacements. thanks for easy-therm re-cal tip.
I'm using alpha-n now, cos was having prob's tuning map based. Idles at 65 kPa,
like you said, spastic cams. Now I still having prob's up top. Suspect valve springs
'gone off', and valve bouncing. Old probike ones, still on big cams, and more than 6 x 7seconds
use a week-end. One 20 minute play session at PI more than they done in a years probike racing, probably.
Checking that out this week-end. Nothing like stripping it down to the barrels, just for a bit of fun.
Lucky it goes like a mad thing when it does, else I'd be well over it.
Ta for the handy links, too.
G

[Hagarr]

Fuck I wish I could speak your language!

[evad]

lol,it's like a disease. You just catch it!!
G hope this photobucket pic loads ok and it is pretty fuzzy but it gives you an idea of the size. I have the farnell part number in the shed somewhere if you want to use then and the .s19 files that easytherm generated for the me to read. They read more accurately than my mates buells stock ones

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/sloan_dh/gpz900%20streetfighter/Picture022.jpg

[Redmohawk]

LoL got to love it ! I know who's brains I'm picking when my shit gets here and i have no idea what to do ! Assembly testing and fitting will all be easy i'm sure compared with getting the software up n running and tuning done. There is a reason why lots of people dont do it themselves and its not the assembly lol. The auto tune with a palm sounds like the ducks nuts! Guess i'll have to chase up a palm now lol whats the best/cheap option there ???? What the interface done with ?

[evad]

have a look here. Ebay is your friend, lol the us prices are normally best.

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?f=73&t=17772

[Surt]

have u also bought gm coolant and intake air sensors mohawk? btw heres a useful link:

http://www.sportbikes.net/forums/general-sportbikes/330339-my-95-zx6r-turbo-project.html

[livewire]

I wouldn't recommend GM air intake temp sensor, big n ugly.
Dave's setup very neat n small.
Snagged a palmIIIx on egay last night for $15.99. Bargain.
Plus $13 postage. Supposed to be in excellent condition.
B/W screen, and AA batts instead of colour n lith-ion like palmIIIc,
but cheap enough at that.
Think I'll rig up a battery eliminator some how.
And put TEWBO2 into MS1 for display and tune on palm, and we're off!
Thanks heaps for pointers, Dave.

[evad]

No worries, glad to help :D

[Redmohawk]

Yeah ordered sensors with MS but stuffed up should have ordered a broad band oxy sensor n driver kit at the same time to assist with tuning, but i guess if i order it now it will prob turn up about when i have the comp put together anyhow. Still have to chase up a good set of GPZ750 TB's with injectors etc anyhow. Must look up a palm to and shit should have ordered a usb to ser adapter to lol well back on the net to make another order !

[evad]

dont know how you will go with the 750 tbs, only the turbos were injected, I an using gpz1100 tbs, tps,injectors, fuel pump and reg. They are bigger than the 750s but the injectors are low impedance so you have to either run resistors or a flyback board although the ver 3 has better flyback protection than the 2.2 and may not need it.
What are hte centres on your carbs. Check them and then look for a set with the same spacing on msefi.com
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=6627.
you can run bigger dia tbs than you can carbs because you are not relying on the airflow/ venturi effect to make them work, ther is no way I could run 35mm carbs on my zed and have any sort of throttle response low down with carbs that size.

[evad]

you can also get wbo2 setups from techedge in canberra
http://www.wbo2.com/

[Redmohawk]

Thanks for the info Evad will grab my tape mesure and go have a look i think.

[Redmohawk]

The MS turned up today!

[evad]

Lol, I told you they were good :D So is it built yet? Dont forget to build it and test it as per teh assembly guide.

[evad]

Hey Graeme, if you feed the wblin+ from the wide band into the ecu you can display the afr as one of the gauges in megatuneand then log using megatunes burst log or on the palm ( still need to save it in megatune tho against the msq that you were using when you logged, hope Im not telling you something you already knew [:I]

[Surt]

quote:Originally posted by evad


http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i308/sloan_dh/gpz900%20streetfighter/Picture022.jpg




hey evad those thermistors r looking like a closed type? if so they r probly no good for a forced induction?? but they sure look neat :)

[Redmohawk]

ordered a wide band oxy sensor driver and usb to ser converter from same guys last night , got a message shipped same night! So prob be here early next week with easter! Shipping from these guys isnt cheap at $49- but average 4 days turn around its worth it! I ordered some indacators 2 weeks ago from china sent air mail lol still not here ! pfffff

Will put it all together one night next week, bike is copping alot of changes this week to bring it closer cosmeticly to fighter status, and getting it changed to vic reg, so is using up my spare time atm. As I'm going to AFR10 on her the weekends out. Will chase up TB's next week pump etc , keen to get it setup asap as i looked into the carbs the other day to sort some running issues (bike has done 108,000 km) carbs are in serious need of work slides have wear groves on the guide wings 1mm deep! Come on efi!!!!

[livewire]

Ta Dave, yeah, I was onto the WBO2 wblin into MS/megatune, but first time is always the tricky one.
Still waiting for palm to turn up.
Rocker cover still off CutKat, springs ok but starting to 'nibble' inlet cam, couple of spots of tooth
decay on 2 inlet lobes, just starting.
Don't wanna go down in cam as it hurts hp (should still be about 240), but bastard thing is very high maintenance.

[evad]

Yeah, I am lucky that I have 2 mates who are electronic whizz's, i am keen to see how your kat runs on the ms once its tuned, what sort of afr's are you aiming for?
Surt, Not sure what you mean by closed type? The engine temp one is only used to control the cold start enrichment and the IAT one for temp enrichment.

[Surt]

actually i mean that:

http://www.diyautotune.com/catalog/gm-open-element-iat-sensor-with-pigtail-p-62.html?osCsid=4c9a50a05b6e60047263d00ca04f324e

;)

[livewire]

Dave, aiming at AFR 12.5 whilst making snot, 14.7 whilst cruisin.
Was running good down low, but think I was too lean about 6k + rpm.
Was basing that on calculated VE's, and MS base requirement calculations.
Looking at table you pm'ed, I should have had 180 in table when I only had 120, up top.
In hindsight, that figures, as calculated idle settings were about 40, but ended up at 60 for
AFR = 14.7. Maybe put idle back to 40, and increase base squirt settings from 7.2 mS to 10.
Palm , and/or dyno will make it a lot easier than 'guessing'.
The GM sensor Surt linked to is the one I got. Probably ok tapped into car inlet tract, but
pretty ugly around bike TB's/ pods. Only need a little one, a la Dave, for IAT reading.
I'll be ditching GM unit, and use thermistors for AIT and 'Coolant' (barrell) temp.
Cheers,
G :)
PS. GM IAT sensor is just a Dave thermistor in a cage

[Surt]

bahaha evad say thanks from me to the mate! [}:)]

[livewire]

Sorry Surt, I wasn't meaning to upset.
Just GM unit is the size of my thumb, and bare thermistor is size of a match.
GM unit is same thermistor, but in a big mounting assembly.
My deal naturally aspirated.
GM unit probably good to put in blown application manifolds.
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=37595

[Surt]

hahaha! not at all just kinda weird to talk through Dave especially if hes not here :D yet i can talk from first second or third person direct speech indicative conjuctive etc modes whatever suits better for my interlocutor [}:)]

yup, livewire thats wat i meant when asked, and we talked about a blown application, didnt we? ;) another question, if the thermistor gonna last long in aggressive coolant? (if one uses it for a coolant sensor) remember, the stock closed gm coolant sensor is a brass unit corrossion resistant, can thin foil shell of the thermistor perform the same? nah, i'd luv to use em myself i just wanna be sure they r reliable![:I]

[livewire]

Fuck, I just spent 10 mins in the dictionary, translating english to english. haha. And I was sposed to be good at english! How you know so much 'aussieness' when I get the impression you never been here? However, I digress.
I haven't seen a coolant one, my old pig air cooled, but yes, GM unit would also be the go for that. Usually in cars/trucks the sensor is in the head just before thermostat outlet. Hottest place, I spose. Your's is blown Subaru(?) into bike, no? Maybe best/easiest to use OEM sensor and recalibrate MS (easytherm) as it already mounted.
Then again, maybe also easier to put in GM units and have it just work straight up. Maybe even GM and Subaru sensors have same temp/impedance curves?
All my sensors mounted in air, no need for 'protection', as such.
Catch ya's in a couple. I'm off camping with my young fella/mates/dirtbikes/drinkin piss for a couple of days. Woohoo!

[Surt]

thanks livewire! [:I] the aussieness i've bred up in me for many long /or short/ years that i've been trying to sneak down under ;) so now i'm a russian aussie [:p] also mcquarie's aussie slang dictionary is of help for me as well as (or even more) talking to u wankers on the forum :D... i bought the gm sensors yup for my Naglfar, i was just wondering about further projects... btw how do u use engine temp sensor for an air and oil cooled application? i'll need to know it pretty soon the oil temp is higher than coolant temp or is it works as "cold" - "warmed up"? u see i still don't have any ms running on an engine, still played with jimstim... ahh yeah it was a civic not subaru if it matters :) and not initially blown but converted to efi and turbo

[livewire]

Funny how 'wankers' is a term of endearment, eh? Only in Australia!
I was gunna put coolant temp sensor into oil gallery behind barrels, as Katana aircooled.
Dave put me onto just putting thermistor hard against barrels to do same job.
Can then monitor temp wise on Megatune, and maybe recalibrate if neccessary, on enrichments page.
At moment I just got a resistor in there so it thinks it's 80F degrees all the time.
Temp senders give it an 'electronic choke', which I definately miss at moment.
When cold starting, I have to keep blipping throttle to get accelaration enrichment to fatten it up till
motor warms up, then it all good.
Boosted civic motor, thats pretty wild. Good chance it'll be able to do a skid, I'm thinkin.
You know 'Off your head' is another term of endearment. :) Sounds like it should be a fun ride.

[Redmohawk]

Well wide band oxygen sensor turned up today ! Time to pull my finger out of my ass and find a TB set to suit !

[Surt]

quote:Originally posted by livewire

Funny how 'wankers' is a term of endearment, eh? Only in Australia!
I was gunna put coolant temp sensor into oil gallery behind barrels, as Katana aircooled.
Dave put me onto just putting thermistor hard against barrels to do same job.
Can then monitor temp wise on Megatune, and maybe recalibrate if neccessary, on enrichments page.
At moment I just got a resistor in there so it thinks it's 80F degrees all the time.
Temp senders give it an 'electronic choke', which I definately miss at moment.
When cold starting, I have to keep blipping throttle to get accelaration enrichment to fatten it up till
motor warms up, then it all good.
Boosted civic motor, thats pretty wild. Good chance it'll be able to do a skid, I'm thinkin.
You know 'Off your head' is another term of endearment. :) Sounds like it should be a fun ride.



thanks for the brain tucker brainiac! [:p] been cut of the web for 2 days
ur right about wanker term livewire never heard the word from people visited Oz (wankers!) before joined here... :D
... yeah, time will show, stocky shafts endured a n/a variant without fail, will see how'bout the blown 1... would real hate to order custom gears cos of cost... and time's delay [V]
;)

[Surt]

quote:Originally posted by Redmohawk

Well wide band oxygen sensor turned up today ! Time to pull my finger out of my ass and find a TB set to suit !


yup big chief u dont need to shove ur finger in the arse anymore coz u have the lamda sensor now :D has it come with the afr gauge? g'luck with finding tb, if u dig out info on center to center distances and inlet and outlet id's feel free to post it here... i'm thinking on fitting in 2 pairs of tbs from some 250 or 400 cc (32-35 mm id, 96mm center to center dist)

[livewire]

Got the soldering iron going yet RMH?
O2 sensor a kit too?

[Redmohawk]

will post info for you surt asap, live na O2 is assembled making life a little quicker but will put my own display together i think is easy voltage coversion wideband has anolog output as well as dig 0volt is 7.35 AFR 5volt 22.39 AFR easy enough to make up a modded volt meter to dislpay that on the cheap. Will fit up Oxy sensor while on carbs and have a play while i put comp together. Might be an interesting look at the diference between standard air box and pod filters using Oxy sensor, carbs are very worn (120,000km) and i think running very rich at the moment .

[Redmohawk]

Well measured up carbs today engine side is 38mm outside 32.5mm inside Diametre with 68mm between outside pairs of carbs centre to centre and 91mm between the two banks in the middle centre to centre.

[livewire]

What is bike, RMH?
Just noticed you in Shepp.
I'm in Bendigo n Booster ( and his dyno) in Wunyu.
Small world

[Redmohawk]

Isn't it ! I'm guessing booster has a turbo bussa that likes salt? Bike is a GPX600, got it cheap and i think i have several others the same as spares so thought it was a fun project to go a little nuts on. Would like 120kw in the end would be happyer with more ! Yeah I know easyer to buy it factory lol Thinking a little nitrous might be fun as well as charger n injection hmmmmmm Just because you have to much power doesnt mean you have to use it all haha

[evad]

Hey RMH, did you come up with a throttle body comination yet?
There are a few common sizes like 75-75-75 or 80-80-80
I am busy modding a set of zx636 38mm tB's for my gpz9 project, i was lucky the outside centres are the same as the 636 and I only have to add 11mm to the centre. These TBs are 2 catings, if you cant get any with your outside centre make sure that you get a set with 4 individual ones. Did yhou have a look at hte tbs thread on msefi.com?

[Redmohawk]

Odd sizes i've been told 68-91-68 but i have a lathe/mill and time lol

[Redmohawk]

Now thinking bigger single TB and a custom built log manifold with injectors fitted to intake runners of head might be the best option for betty and I , more room for intercooler and supercharger no balancing of TB's to worry about a lot less pluming etc etc .And I can pick what ever injectors take my fancy I have a few at my disposal that could be a good option ie flow rate and high impeadance just have to make/adapt a fuel rail to suit. Any thoughts?

[Redmohawk]

http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1270884668.jpg


http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1270892910.png


http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1270921544.gif


This is why the fuel injection is needed lol

[Redmohawk]

Thinking of putting the intercooler at the rear between the frame rails with some fiberglass cowls on the front top section of the tank directing fresh air onto it through ducts , then the under the seat exhausts with another pipe drawing air away from the intercooler .

[livewire]

Hey Dave, have you got any Palm IIIc docking stations you wanna sell?
Do you know how to flash OS3.0 to OS3.5, I now got 1 x III, 3 x IIIx, 1 x IIIc, 1 x SPT1500.
Need OS3.5 to run Megatune.
I having trouble finding flash upgrade. Not supported by Palm any more? You ever done this?
Only have palm IIIx dock station, need a IIIc to charge internal battery, batch of 5 mixed palms I bought had no accessories/books etc.
Cheers,
G