Lane Filtering

[Tathagata]

Hi All,

I got booked a few days ago, the excuse was "failure to remain within lane" I was lane filtering (driving up the middle of stationary traffic). It was a 3 lane road and the officer was in the far left lane, I was in the middle of lanes 2 and 3 with a long row of cars and trucks between us. I dont know how he could possibly have seen me moving across that line.

I am looking for someone that has been to court with a trumped up lane filtering charge. I want to take this to court, its a stupid charge and so I want to fight it. If anyone has any info can they help me out?

Just so you know. Ive looked around and can find nothing solid on this so far just a lot of "im pretty sure its legal" type stuff. but it does seem that filtering itself is legal.

As a note...I knew the officer was there, I was deliberately being slow and careful and safe, he really had no reason to pull me over other than the reason that I split past him...which is to try it on and see if I can get away with it. So lets take it all the way and see what the courts think.

Cheers.

[Fight_fan]

Mate i'v heard different stories from different states. It seems QLD is worse than others... Im pretty sure its not legal tho, and depends a lot on how the cops feelin. As a rule I would never do it past a cop tho... Just in case!

[Cruisecontrol]

I think the wording on the infringement is important on this one.

"failure to remain within lane" is going to be very difficult to prove for the copper sitting a lane away with cars obstructing his view of where your bike was on the road and if you were indicating during every "lane change".

Remember that you do not have to prove that you were not doing what he has stated. He has to prove that you were...

[grindella]

cool story but you can not overtake or pass on the left in the same lane. Cop it sweet pay the fine lol Take it to court and you lose the cop has give you the lesser charge.

[Jup]

So if he argues that he was in the middle lane, and therefore passing cars on the right in the same lane, and did not change lanes at any time would that cover the 'pass on left' issue do you think? Or is there also a law that requies you to change lanes when passing a vehicle on the right?

[Tathagata]

grindella, thats another one of those things that people tend to say, but so far Ive seen no definitive answer that when lane filtering you cannot do it on the left.
Can you show the ruling that covers this?

"Remember that you do not have to prove that you were not doing what he has stated. He has to prove that you were..."
Thats a very good point, cheers.

[JackTar]

Overtaking on the left and lane filtering are not the same, I too have no black and white rules in front of me but I was always under the understanding that lane filtering through stationary traffic as opposed to lane splitting which is through moving traffic was legal. As a matter of fact I also recall them trying to change the laws to make it illegal and the motorcycle council or whoever it was went to court and won. I do remember the story because the coucil said it was only a matter of time before they came at it from a different angle with different statistics to try and make it illegal again.

[JackTar]

http://bikeraware.com/rr_lane_splitting.htm

[Tathagata]

Thanks JakTar, good stuff. So passing on the left is bad, but in this case I dont need to defend that, so all good there, lol.

Do you think its worth writing to the Commissioner to drop it first? or just elect to go straight to court.

[barknmad]

Still debatable:
Section 141 Queensland Road Rules Regulation 2009:

141 No overtaking etc. to the left of a vehicle
(1) A driver (except the rider of a bicycle) must not overtake a
vehicle to the left of the vehicle unless—
(a) the driver is driving on a multi-lane road and the vehicle
can be safely overtaken in a marked lane to the left of
the vehicle; or
(b) the vehicle is turning right, or making a U-turn from the
centre of the road, and is giving a right change of
direction signal and it is safe to overtake to the left of the
vehicle; or
(c) the vehicle is stationary and can be safely overtaken to
the left of the vehicle.
Maximum penalty—20 penalty units.

http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRURR09.pdf

[JackTar]

Have a look at C mate, that is just more proof. "If the vehicle is stationary..."

[336LJ]

what happened when you were pulled over? do you remember what you said and what he said? and how either of you were behaving?.
if you played dumb and copped it sweet its a good start, if you made it known you are going to fight it the cop probably dotted his "i"s and such and took extra notes.
Remember the road conditions, his position and yours.

You can send the officer an objection letter, and force them to provide proof of claim that they can indeed prove you broke a law and prove that THAT law was a legally enacted law, as it has to be according to the commonwealth constitution, in the letter you also follow that, if they can't provide proof that they are acting in accordance with the laws of the commonwealth, then they have no right to request payment or forteiture of demerit points.
Incase anyone wants to know
The Imperial Acts Application Act section 8, clause 12 (on page 43) states "that all grants and promises of fines and forfeitures of particular persons BEFORE conviction, are illegal and void".

If they continue to send you letters (final notice) and claim extra fees or charges on top of that - send them a court election letter (by registered post - as with any correspondence).
The last one I sent I requested that the court be of "competent jurisdiction, and conforming to Chapter 3 of the commonwealth constitution Act (1900 UK)- and persuant to forge V asic determination (high court ruling "all courts must revert to federation" ) no less than 2 magistrates, and a jury of your peers. I also pointed out that a Bail justice, or computer court does not comply with my constitutional rights and is therefore not a court of competent jurisdiction.
Should be interesting if I DO go to court and there is only one magistrate cause I will have to tell them I do not consent to their jurisdiction.. probably get tazed or something lol.

It gives YOU a much better leg to stand on, because if they ignore it, you can prove they got it, if they take it to court without you, its also a violation of your constitutional rights, if a court order has been issued without you going to court then you need to request the revocation papers and explain that the order was made unlawfully as it was not made in your presence (great if you are facing losing your licence)and everyone has the right to do this.

Theres a whole bunch of letters and stuff you can send to these jerks and it will set you up much better if you go to court.

[336LJ]

I might also point out at this stage - that NO road rules regulation, or legistlation of any kind, has been legally enacted in any state in australia - they are just guidelines, not law. pretty fucked to think when you sign for your licence you agree to it tho.

[sen]

Anyone have any links to filtering/splitting laws in NSW? I can't find anything, and it's something i'm always shitting myself about since I split my way down King St every day (and usually past a few cops).. am I gunna get raped? :P

[Tathagata]

holy cow 336LJ.
Yes, I did tell him I would take it to court, he mentioned it. I was polite to him but told him that I didnt believe I was doing anything wrong, he told me "ill see you in court then" and I agreed :)

Im still pretty much stuck on the fact that he must think that he can prove that he saw me move from one lane to another and yet with the traffic around (it was just after 9am on one of the major roads on the city fringe) there is no way he could have seen the bike or the white line, only my upper body.
He couldnt even say there was no traffic, that would be easy to prove otherwise.

[Jup]

quote:Originally posted by Tathagata

He couldnt even say there was no traffic, that would be easy to prove otherwise.


If there was no traffic you wouldn't have been filtering der! :D

[336LJ]

quote:Originally posted by sen

Anyone have any links to filtering/splitting laws in NSW? I can't find anything, and it's something i'm always shitting myself about since I split my way down King St every day (and usually past a few cops).. am I gunna get raped? :P

you probably have more of a chance of being raped by some fuckwit who sees you coming in his mirrors and moves over to block you.But then you can rape his face with your armoured glove, or helmet if you can get it off quick enough.
I'd say if you are doing it reasonably, and not like a lunatic, most cops tend to not give a shit, I'v snuck up a traffic jam just to pull up to a set of lights right beside a marked car and just give them a wave or nod.. or sometimes just ignore them completely, waiting for them to make a scene. haven't been done yet I suspect its cause they are infact NOT dicks - and actually humans with common sense and the foresight to be able to consider the benefits of me being there and not smushed in a pile up.

Its only the dicks who got picked on at school and now have a gun and badge that will try to make money off you.
My brother actually had a bike cop tell him, he HATES bikers and is out to catch them for all sorts of shit!, that guy has no dick or balls at all. he has a mangina and stupid pants and probably gets bashed by his missus.

[holyman_999]

quote:that guy has no dick or balls at all. he has a mangina and stupid pants

thanks mate... I haven't laughed that hard in ages...:D:D:D

I filter whenever there's STOPPED traffic. I've had those heart-stopping moments when you're sitting in traffic, hear the squeal of tyres, and you have no time to do anything but close your eyes and pucker your arse!

I've been pulled up filtering in the city (Sydney), and told the cop I was 'pushed out' of the traffic by a taxi that almost ran me over, I was just trying to get back into a lane safely and no-one would let me back in. Provided you believe you are in danger, to my understanding, you can break any traffic law. (Unless your actions put others in danger.) The cop told me to be more careful, then chased the random taxi that I pointed out as the culprit. [}:)]

[Chris41]

In NSW I've been done on the M4 for " Passing on the near side" and "Passing in the emergency lane" in Newcastle

[Tathagata]

quote:Originally posted by 336LJ

that guy has no dick or balls at all. he has a mangina and stupid pants and probably gets bashed by his missus.


LOL thats gold!

If I was riding like an idiot, then Id cop the fine. But I wasnt, I was being very careful and I cant see why he would choose to book me...I mean wtf does it matter if a bike creeps up between the cars. I dont understand why cars would be upset about it either.

Geez, life must be pretty good if people have nothing more substantial to worry about.

Funny thing...I told my brother in law, who has been booked drunk riding and chucking a mono while trying to outrun police. He said to me "good you deserve it, I hate you bastards that go up the middle like that"...FUCKING WHAT!!!

I just dont get it.

[grindella]

why book you, you ask, you are on a motorcycle. Whey would cars get the shits perhaps, they do and do thinks like move over and open doors. Dont worry about getting it, get used to it, be wary of it because, to many people in cars do not consider motorcycles. So dont get it, get on with it

[-Dex-]

quote:Originally posted by TathagataI dont understand why cars would be upset about it either.


I was splitting through the parking lot that is the onramp to the harbour bridge yesterday, passed a tradies ute with some tatted up she male who was wrapped in his three mates in the car with him. As I pass he yells out "OI YOU FUCKING CUNT!".

Luckily I was going all of 5km/h so I was able to stop easily and walk the bike back to his open window and politely reply "Yes. What is it?"

Old mate didn't know what to say and was squirming uncomfortably. His friends in the back seat thought it was hilarious. I just shook my head and ambled off. I hate people.

[rod185651]

quote:Originally posted by -Dex-


quote:Originally posted by TathagataI dont understand why cars would be upset about it either.


I was splitting through the parking lot that is the onramp to the harbour bridge yesterday, passed a tradies ute with some tatted up she male who was wrapped in his three mates in the car with him. As I pass he yells out "OI YOU FUCKING CUNT!".

Luckily I was going all of 5km/h so I was able to stop easily and walk the bike back to his open window and politely reply "Yes. What is it?"

Old mate didn't know what to say and was squirming uncomfortably. His friends in the back seat thought it was hilarious. I just shook my head and ambled off. I hate people.


Something similar happened to Chase and I, we were heading to the old road on the Pacific Highway which was in gridlock, a work ute full of tradies tried to block me in after I passed his window, however; he didn't realise Steve was right behind me and now next to the driver's window. Steve told him if he didn't move his ute back to the center of the lane he was going to knock his "Fucking mirror off!" Voila, we were no longer blocked.

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by Chris41

In NSW I've been done on the M4 for " Passing on the near side"


That one can bite you on the arse even if you are in your own lane.
I have been told that it is an offence for a motorcycle to pass a heavy vehicle on the left.
So even if you are on a six lane divided road and a truck decides to sit in the right hand lane, legally speaking we motorcyclists are not allowed to pass him.

[bluemk1]

you have just answered the thing that has been puzzling me for years.

how is it that traffic jams are caused on the m4?
clearly its all the people in the 'near lanes' not wanting to overtake the cars in the overtaking lanes thus breaking the law!

[Hagarr]

Wouldn't be having this discussion in Vietnam!

What a crock!

[Tathagata]

Well, after tons of advice, including some from a traffic officer who rides, the conclusion is:

It is legal to ride up the middle of the traffic if its at a standstill.
If you are riding to the left of the traffic, that is ok so long as it is safe (traffic is stationary or turning or indicating to turn right).
The main stipulation here is that if you cross that white line, you must indicate.

Having said all that, its pretty much only wankers that will book you for this type of thing (apparently).

Advice to me is I can fight it, but even assuming the officer that booked me tells the truth, I may still have a hard time showing that I did not break any law in the process.

Pretty much it seems that if you get booked for this type of thing you are better off taking it on the chin, unless you have time and dollars for court costs that you can do without (which I dont).

So, there you have it. While it seems that I didnt necessarily break any laws, I need to pay a fine that was given to me by a wanker, simply because not paying it will likely cost me more.

....and they say there is nothing wrong with the legal system....

[JackTar]

Who the fuck says that?

[336LJ]

I requested to go to court for just over 20 odd bucks cause the fuckers I'm up against have not proven that I owe them any money at all, and when I read the conditions of making payments to them - I did not like their idea of taking that as an agreement to their bullshit rules - being that I DON'T agree at all with how they operate as it violates a large number of common laws - I'm still not sure about court costs. lots of different ideas about that wether you win or lose - knowing my luck the assholes will drag it out for ages if it ever went to court - and being the billion dollar company they are - they probably won't care how much it costs to silence me.
and make me pay for their 10 solicitors fees

[JackTar]

My understanding (just from what I have heard) is that they can bring in expert witnesses because they hate losing as it upsets the apple cart and then if you lose you have to pay for said experts I could be wrong though.

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by Tathagata


Advice to me is I can fight it, but even assuming the officer that booked me tells the truth, I may still have a hard time showing that I did not break any law in the process.




Was he in a position to see the point where your wheels came into contact with the road?
If not, he has no idea about whether you were changing lanes or not and can't possibly prove it.
And as I stated earlier, the onus is on him since he made the accusation.

[DiscoDan]

quote:Originally posted by JackTar

My understanding (just from what I have heard) is that they can bring in expert witnesses because they hate losing as it upsets the apple cart and then if you lose you have to pay for said experts I could be wrong though.

your understanding is correct

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by DiscoDan


quote:Originally posted by JackTar

My understanding (just from what I have heard) is that they can bring in expert witnesses because they hate losing as it upsets the apple cart and then if you lose you have to pay for said experts I could be wrong though.

your understanding is correct


Someone said I was right, that one is going in the Diary Disco.

[Shadowzone]

quote:Originally posted by JackTar


quote:Originally posted by DiscoDan


quote:Originally posted by JackTar

My understanding (just from what I have heard) is that they can bring in expert witnesses because they hate losing as it upsets the apple cart and then if you lose you have to pay for said experts I could be wrong though.

your understanding is correct


Someone said I was right, that one is going in the Diary Disco.



Its your fault he got knocked off in the first place Jacktar

[336LJ]

quote:Originally posted by JackTar

My understanding (just from what I have heard) is that they can bring in expert witnesses because they hate losing as it upsets the apple cart and then if you lose you have to pay for said experts I could be wrong though.

Fuck...