Suzuki Timing Retard Elimimators

[pappas]

Found this website on how to make your own. Haven't done it myself but worth the read.
http://wotid.com/gsxr/content/view/16/31/

[Tony Nitrous]

My Busa has a 6.8ohm resister.
About 20c from Dick Smith's.
Done pre/post dyno run's, work's.
To be honest, can't notice any difference on the road.
No problem starting dispite thinking its in 4th gear.

Should be more noticable on the B-King, not done it yet,
Speed restricter is about 40/50k lower in 5th and 6th.
Suppposed to really liven up the lower gears too.
Although it might not be worth doing though as i think i can
get the same result by "flashing" the ECU, and disable the
P.A.I.R at the same time.

[suxukifreak]

Tony, have you got the pre & post run dyno charts??
The guys on 1400.org swear blind TREs dont work.

Ive got one on the TL and it works.

[BANDITROD]

i have a GI Pro gear indicator and Tre all in one on my gixxer and it works fucking great

[Tony Nitrous]

quote:Originally posted by suxukifreak

Tony, have you got the pre & post run dyno charts??
The guys on 1400.org swear blind TREs dont work.


It worked in that the Busa held back in top gear and showed 285kph,
after the risister it pulled well past 300kph (on the dyno)
That wasnt the reason i fitted it, i had hoped for more go in 1st
and 2nd but didnt notice anything. Others say different.

The B-King is VERY restriced in 1st/2nd and 5th/6th.
Speed restricted to about 250kph. A B-King TRE might not make any
extra peak horsepower (they normaly dyno in 4th) but it makes the
bike Quicker top end and doesnt hold back in 1st and 2nd.


If a bike holds back at 250 (BK) or 285 (Busa),
then pulls past it with a TRE fitted,
I fail to understand the claim "they dont work" ?

[Tony Nitrous]

I do have two Dyno sheets showing 154 hp / 285kph and then a TRE run showing
320"ish" 159hp but to be honest im not 100% sure they were from the same bike,
I think they might be the 02 when i bought it Stock, and the 04 with the TRE.

Will look for the others, they are not scanned in.

I have seen and heard a 100 opinions on TRE's and great gain's / no difference in hp,
but as a speed de-restricer on BK's and Busa's they work. FACT.

[Tony Nitrous]

Dont need TRE's on the new bikes,

The smart guy's can plug in and change any TRE settings, disable the PAIR valve,
fool the senser (after removing the "cat"), change rev limits and a dozen other things...

http://macmadigan.no-ip.com/Public/gen2/bking_derestriction.jpg

[Booster]

Maybe the 14's are not fast enough to notice ;)

If you look through the ecu hacking stuff (or download the Rom Raider programme and busa or gsxr1k files and definitions) and see the differences in fuel and ign maps and the rev limits/gear ,you can see exactly what tricking the ecu to believe its in 5th all the time will do
5th ign advance is more agressive, mapping can include ram air compensation,rev limiter is definitely lower in 6th

[Booster]

beat me Tony ;)
Rom Raider shows all the tables, 400+ on the gen 2 and BK something like 140 on the gen 1 and gsxr

[Tony Nitrous]

If you fitted a full ststem to a Bus or BK it was common to have to
block off the PAIR system (Marbles in the hose?) or remove it and fit
blanking plates. Now you can just turn it off....

http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t20/camel_geselle/electrical/EE2/PAIRMODREDUNDANTcopy.jpg

[Large]

In a politically correct world, you wouldn't be able to use the words 'retard' or 'eliminate'

[BANDITROD]

hahahahahahahahaha

[suxukifreak]

Most of the 1400 guys fit a 4 deg advancer instead of a TRE.

My understanding would be, this makes 5th & 6th too advanced?

[Tony Nitrous]

Different thing I think.

On the Bus/King the ignition is only electronicaly "retarded" at high rev's in 1st and 2nd
so you dont get 160hp 1st gear, and in 5th / 6th as a speed limiter.
I've used a fixed plate USA-FACTORY advancer on a bike but thats every gear all the time,
(and the Bus/King would STILL do its retard thing it off if you left the ECU signal untouched)
worked OK on a Bandit, dont think its suitable for the Bus/King ?

Booster should have a better answer........... ?

[Hagarr]

quote:Dont need TRE's on the new bikes,

The smart guy's can plug in and change any TRE settings, disable the PAIR valve,
fool the senser (after removing the "cat"), change rev limits and a dozen other things...


Hey Tony can you give me any more info on this?

[Tony Nitrous]

http://www.petespitstop.com.au/

There are thread's running on the Busa / B-King forum's.

They're finding new stuff all the time.

I think Greg "Booster" can do them too ?

[Tony Nitrous]

http://www.boostbysmith.com/ecugen2.html

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?forumID=99460&p=1

http://www.activeboard.com/forum.spark?aBID=99460&p=3&topicID=33116849

[Booster]

Advancer could still help, or it may do nothing or cost power, dyno is the only way to tell.

I have reflashed gen 1 busa,s and 05&06 gsxr 1ks, & have the gear to do the B-K and gen 2 busa,

some of the guys that can reflash here http://www.australian-hayabusa-club.com/MyBB/showthread.php?tid=13442

[pappas]

quote:Originally posted by Tony Nitrous

My Busa has a 6.8ohm resister.

No problem starting dispite thinking its in 4th gear.




Tony, shouldn't the bike think it's in 5th gear with the 6.8k ohm resistor? The link above shows how to wire up a smart TRE which gives you full use of your gear position indicator.

[wackyrider]

So what is the difference between an ignition advancer and a TRE?

i had an ignition advacer fitted onto my Honda Hornet years ago. Slight difference in performance but nothing amazing

[Tony Nitrous]

quote:Originally posted by pappas


quote:Originally posted by Tony Nitrous

My Busa has a 6.8ohm resister.
No problem starting dispite thinking its in 4th gear.

Tony, shouldn't the bike think it's in 5th gear with the 6.8k ohm resistor? The link above shows how to wire up a smart TRE which gives you full use of your gear position indicator.


Yeah, my mistake. I used a 6.8 in the Busa as its the recommended one.

I might be getting mixed up with the B-King whick show's a permanent
"4" on the dash if you buy the early version TRE.

[pappas]

Actually just re reading that website, it does still affect the factory gear indicator. My bad!

[Tony Nitrous]

quote:Originally posted by wackyrider

So what is the difference between an ignition advancer and a TRE?


As the name say's an ignition advancer moves the timing forward.

A TRE is a "Timing retard Eliminator". its fooling the bike so that
it doesnt restrict the motor at high rev's in the bottom or top gears.
(either to make the 1st gear less mental, or to speed restrict the top gears)

One is a mechanical Ignition advancer, its an all the gears, all the time device.

A TR or TRE is an electrical signal that fools the bike only when its needed.

I've used them both on different bikes.
Although they both effect the timing signal they are not really the same thing
and have different job's and different results.

[megareg]

I've found this thread rather interesting, the interface to the MCU is very simple and I have the bitz, but no 'Busa, still, I have the know-how now, I haven't had a look at the same type of mods for other Suzuki models yet, I must do some searching.....

The edit...
Actually, I have looked at the wiring diagram for the Gsxr series and have seen that all it would take is a resistor to fool the MCU, the 'Busa/B-King stuff that mods the actual software really interests me, it's nice that someone has done the hard yards for some of us tech savvy people, after all, why re-invent the wheel....

[Spear]

after some pondering i did get a tre off egay 40 bucks at my door and it deffinetly felt way stronger and smoother on the throttle and one of the better value for dollar ive spent .97 tls standard throttle responce and hunting at 3000 rpm is a lot better.

[Hagarr]

A mate and his mate and I went thirds in the Petes Pitstop ECU editor so cost us $120.00 each.

Can't say that the performancce has changed much but with the TBR system it was really snarly below and up to 3000rpm we have cleaned this area up, heaps better.

Once we get on the dyno will tell what sort of performance gains we can make (if any).

The B KIng editor doesn't have as many functions as the Busa but they are developing all the time so maybe will get more function in the future.

The Busa editor has some wicked functions, one being a shift kit which shuts fuel and ign during changes, you can set up a Nitrous system which can be set by TPS % open and gear selection, heaps more ign changes, so maybe the performance side is not that important but the added functionality without having to spend heaps on software or hardware.

The other note is apparantly Power Commanders only change the functionality of one set of injectors not both and its the set which doesn't give you the most gain.

[TIMTAMS]

quote:Originally posted by pappas

Found this website on how to make your own. Haven't done it myself but worth the read.
http://wotid.com/gsxr/content/view/16/31/




ecueditor here i come pappas