To streetfighter or not...

[The Phantom]

Hi ASF,

Been a while since I was a forum newbie, go easy on me :D I'm a 40yo father of three who is pretty mad about bikes in general (dirt, road, race, mountainbike) and both my wife and I have been riding all our lives. We are on the Sunshine Coast but I am originally from Sydney/Picton.

I found the site via CBRRT's Fireblade topic, which I read in its entirety - funny stuff and I learned a few good tips along the way. I have a VFR750 that has been a very long term project. In fact, since buying it in 1998 I've only had it rideable for a total of maybe 18 months, partly because of family commitments but mostly because I just can't stop modifying it. When it has been on the road it's been flogged mercilessly though ;)

So... it's got a few mods:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2746/4166661450_0b615dc813_b.jpg

I'm considering leaving the fairings (custom bodywork) off it, for a while at least, as I think it looks pretty good nekkid... thoughts? Will mosey around ASF a bit and see where it take us.

[oldskool]

It is a bone of contention but I say clip ons are not a Streetfighter thing the belong on cafe racers and spots bikes, the hole Streetfighter layout is all in the bulldog stance of a rider and his or her Fighter.

[sharky]

quote:but I say clip ons are not a Streetfighter thing
Oh yes...the 'rules'.....;)
Do what you want mate...if you like the style/riding position then just do it..

Oh..and Welcome.:D

[The Phantom]

Well that's no surprise, but remember I've been building this as a sportsbike. It's only since I fitted the tail that I stood back and saw a streetfighter.

I have a spare SP1 top triple, so fitting one-piece bars is easy enough. Got a few suitable headlights in the parts collection too. Not sure what I can do about getting a bit of bulldog into the rider though : )

Thanks Sharky. I think I have some tips I can share on modifying the SSS which seems to be pretty popular with you lot.

[The Phantom]

Some of the mods: '04 R1 front end (rebuilt by Zeno with ZX-10R uppers mated to R1 lowers), CBR929 lower tripleclamp, SP1 upper tripleclamp, 3rd Gen rear wheel, Ohlins shock for CBR900RR (rebuilt by Terry Hayes), Indigo exhaust headers, '02 R6 tail with factory seat cowl, Pazzo levers, Epro billet clip-ons, VTR1000 clutch master cylinder, CBR600F4i dash, 45T Chaingang sprocket, Ariete 90 degree valve stems, various billet plugs and caps, EWP electric waterpump... in the workshop is a full Vesrah gasket kit for the day that it is overbored to 840cc, at which time the cams will go to Ivan Tighe for a bit of reprofiling.

[Tony Nitrous]

Faired, Naked, Renthals, clip-on's, who gives a f#ck.

If its modified and fun, your in the right place,

Hell, we even let Honda riders in here...;)

[sharky]

quote:Hell, we even let Honda riders in here...
And even <s>harleys</s> sorry Buells...[:o)]

[wackyrider]

Welcome mate

[sen]

Welcome.. I reckon keep the clipons. Yeah it won't be a "pure" fighter but it looks tough as. Putting a VFR swinger onto my VTR is a future dream of mine. Heard it's not too hard.

[rod185651]

quote:Originally posted by oldskool

It is a bone of contention but I say clip ons are not a Streetfighter thing the belong on cafe racers and spots bikes, the hole Streetfighter layout is all in the bulldog stance of a rider and his or her Fighter.


Welcome mate, I had raisers and flat bars for about 12 months and then returned to using clip ons on my fighter. No one has called it a cafe racer or sports bike yet. Maybe with clip ons we should re-categorise them as cafe fighters or sports fighters :D

[hyofighter]

welcome to asf , farken love the bike , the vfr is the next bike on my list and you have done a pretty sweet job on yours

[sen]

quote:Originally posted by rod185651


quote:Originally posted by oldskool

It is a bone of contention but I say clip ons are not a Streetfighter thing the belong on cafe racers and spots bikes, the hole Streetfighter layout is all in the bulldog stance of a rider and his or her Fighter.


Welcome mate, I had raisers and flat bars for about 12 months and then returned to using clip ons on my fighter. No one has called it a cafe racer or sports bike yet. Maybe with clip ons we should re-categorise them as cafe fighters or sports fighters :D


I've been getting lots of people bagging me out for calling it a fighter (only call it that cos I had no idea what to call it), so started calling mine a Cafe Fighter and it usually gets some satisfied nods haha..

[Cruisecontrol]

Of course there are "rules" relating to what a streetfighter is or isn't.
If there weren't, nobody would have cared that Ducati stole the name and sites like this would not exist.

Every modified sportsbike is not a streetfighter.

[oldskool]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

Of course there are "rules" relating to what a streetfighter is or isn't.
If there weren't, nobody would have cared that Ducati stole the name and sites like this would not exist.

Every modified sportsbike is not a streetfighter.

Dan I love your poetic way of sayin things ;)

[Jockney Rebel]

welcome mate ....difficult bike to strip and keep a clean look .........the VFR.... where are you gonna put the rads ? i owned one of the earlier models [an 88 vfr750f ] and id be interested to see what it pumps out after the over bore

[Fight_fan]

In my opinion mate, clip on's or not, I'd still say fighter! With that new tail n kicked up stance the bike looks shit hot! I'd leave the bodywork off it. Looks super clean! Welcome to the madness!

[The Phantom]

Thanks for the kind words guys. Jockney, your 2nd Gen (87-89) was the most powerful VFR made, with a genuine 100hp at the crank. 96hp is about right for mine, stock. I know that with a full system (eg. TBR) the 837cc overbore can produce a comfortable 120hp at the crank, and a guy I know in the Netherlands has his 3rd Gen (90-93) dynoed at 130rwhp which is 145hp at the crank! Mind you he has an RC45 airbox and other $$$ mods. His weighs in at 166kg with fairings too (more $$$ to get down to that weight) and still looks fairly stock - if you ignore the alloy RC30 tank and the RC30 raceglass tail; he gives GSX-R1000 riders a bit of a shock at the Nurburgring :D

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/uploads/1251607521/gallery_668_420_121271.jpg

The original radiator is going back on for now and I have a V-shaped oil cooler off a Duc which is going below the front valve cover. Will kind of have the RC30/RC45 twin rad look.

I'll do what I can to clean the look of the cooling system up - might need to steal or make some end covers like you see on factory nakeds like the SV1000.

Here's a pretty good one (90-93 model, different frame and tank), showing where the original rad sits. I'll relocate my overflow bottle to the other side, and I plan to reroute the top rad hose for a tidier appearance.

http://img29.imageshack.us/img29/1135/13052009133.jpg

http://img41.imageshack.us/img41/9617/13052009137.jpg

[miniman1]

Like the R6 tail on it, Whether its classified as a fighter or not I dont think matters, aslong as its modified and on two wheels I think just bout everything has a place in ASF. My mate's building a VFR 'cafe fighter' thing, will post some pics in the appropriate section if I can find some.

Goodluck with the rest of the build.

[Gitzy]

Welcome mate. Bike looks great.. top job so far..

[Harry]

Welcome phantom...your bike look's great mate,as for clip-on's or bar's it's really up to you.a fighter is a bike made by the owner to wat he or she see's in there own mind's eye as to wat they see as wat they want in a motorcycle.you've opened a can of worms with the bars or clip-on's comment but if you get into UK streetfighter's mag you'll find many bike's with clip-on's that are extremely modifide..it's all about having a one of mate....if it worries you build one of each;)

[03gixxerpilot]

G'day mate welcome aboard

[Gix11]

Yea, Welcome aboard mate. A everyone said, the Twin rads are the stumbler for most VFR fighter efforts.

[The Phantom]

quote:Yea, Welcome aboard mate. A everyone said, the Twin rads are the stumbler for most VFR fighter efforts.

Cheers Gix11, you might be thinking of '98+ VFR800s (5th Gen, and 6th Gen from 2002+) regarding the twin rads; they have them on each side, like VTR1000F (Firestorm) does. Mine is basically the same location as a CBR900RR, but a bit smaller vertically.

I actually have an idea for a hidden cooling system based on twin MX rads and my hi-flow EWP electric waterpump... may be feasible from a waterflow perspective as the EWP really shifts the water, just depends on whether it is physically possible.

[fimpBIKES]

oooh, i like it!

put a minimal headlight and a rad and go do some skids :)

[old gsxrr]

welcome Phantom ,i think a fighter should look like a fighter,as something that doesn't look prissy,and will
stand out as having a look that people like no matter what's done ,so don't follow trends
there are people that don't like plastic but as one pommie streetfighter bike the owner said iff you want to kill 30kph off the top speed and sit upright with the wind force of 260+kmph thats your choice

[The Phantom]

That's the thing, Old GSXRR - I like going those sorts of speeds :)

But I stuck my head in here to see what the SF community thought, and so far it's positive - so I'll give it a good shake and we'll see how it ends up. I work slow, kids and day job take a lot of my time, but I'll keep the pics flowing as we go along (I'll start a "build" topic as soon as I sort out my full membership donation).

A pic from back in her glory days:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2586/3725392377_537b409c96_o.jpg

[fimpBIKES]

let me put it this way

as above (standard) equals shit, i wouldnt piss on it if it was on fire (ok maybe on the swingarm so i could sell it later)

as it stands now in the red, its a proper bike and i think with a few details it would be spot on ;)

[The Phantom]

She was a factory black job, in case anyone is wondering - the red tank in my first pic is off my wife's VFR - everything else was red so I thought I'd tie it all in for a few pics. No idea yet what colour it'll end up being!! I've got my own gear for painting so I might just try a few different colours, It's not like there's a lot to paint on a streetfighter.

[The Phantom]

quote:let me put it this way

LOL! So in other words her glory days are still to come? :) I like it here already. OK fimpBIKES you're on, I hadn't ordered my HEL front brakelines yet so I'll sort out some suitable risers and bar first to measure up for the longer lines.

If anyone is looking for VFR swingarms, the 4th Gen is the one to go for (1994-1997) for two reasons:

1. The lower shock linkage is different to the 3rd Gen (1990-1993), and is more suitable for most bikes

2. You can do a simple mod at the caliper bracket to allow the eccentric to rotate a full 360 degrees (basically you countersink the two bolts that hold the caliper bracket to the mount that fits on the eccentric hub) and this allows you to move the axle from 12 o'clock-ish in the eccentric to 6 o'clock-ish (give or take an hour or two to allow for chain tension).

What's good about this? Well it moves the swingarm up relative to the axle, and as the swinger goes up, so does the whole back of the bike... you gain 35-40mm of rise at the tail with this mod.

It's not possible with the later VFR800 swingarm; because the brake caliper is at the bottom of the hub, the axle is already set at 6 o'clock.

Can post pics showing how this mod works if anyone is interested.

Caveat - you need to run a 45T (or larger) rear sprocket on a VFR to avoid having the top run of the chain running against the swingarm. Not sure how this would be on non-VFRs due to the sprocket/pivot point relationship maybe being different (although knowing the way Honda works, the dimensions are probably identical for Blades and VTRs).

[NoZ]

Hiya

Clips ons are Cafe Racer style are they? Um... didn't the Streetfighter derive from the Cafe Racer days? Yeah they did. It doesn't have to have renthals on to be a fighter, you need twin spots too and anodised bolts (yes, Im taking the piss).

Rules? Rules? You telling me that the hooligan generation of bikers who build these filthy bikes stick to rules? Bollox do they! Granted, stripping plastics and going naked does NOT mean it's a fighter and it's a Marmite v's Vegemite thing - they aren't the same but people think they are (til they are educated that Marmite is fact wayyyy better)

Anyways, reckon you could have fun with this bike. Do what you want, there's loads of advice and people who'll help you along the way. Always thought VFR's were ugly armchairs... never seen one naked, look quite funky.

Welcome to the site :D

[fimpBIKES]

clip-ons are fine by me
have some sitting there myself......

[VFighteR]

Hey Phantom - Welcome mate. Nice to see another VFR fighter. Still progressing on mine, but its coming along sweet.

Good luck with the build - we could prob swap ideas and tips =D

[RC36]

Welcome aboard Phantom,
Are you the same "Phantom" from usa vfr forum? If so thats great!!!

Vfighter, if you need to know ANYTHING about any model of vfr then the Phantom knows! He did a great write up on front end swaps for all of the vfr gens :)

[The Phantom]

Yeah RC that's me [8D]

Don't tell those guys though - I haven't posted any pics of the bike there :D

VFighteR, saw you post on OzVFR... a mate and I started that site nearly ten years back as a Yahoo mailing list, has a good core of people now. You will have to get your fighter along to one of their rides sometime.

Any questions you have on VFR stuff, just fire away :)

[MONO]

Welcome will be keeping a close eye on this thread keep us posted.

[The Phantom]

Haven't made much progress over Xmas/holiday period, but will get back onto it in the next week - when I do I'll start a build topic.

[VFighteR]

quote:Originally posted by The Phantom

Yeah RC that's me [8D]

Don't tell those guys though - I haven't posted any pics of the bike there :D

VFighteR, saw you post on OzVFR... a mate and I started that site nearly ten years back as a Yahoo mailing list, has a good core of people now. You will have to get your fighter along to one of their rides sometime.

Any questions you have on VFR stuff, just fire away :)


sounds good mate - will have to log back in and check out some of the dates

[The Phantom]

Thanks Si... I'm back, fuckers!

The bike has made only minor progress since this topic... but that is about to change. And I have a few kickarse modifications on it now, courtesy of SebSpeed... if you need to ask who that is, fuck off back to netrider, you're not worthy ;)

[wackyrider]

Come on then, where are the pics??

[Cruisecontrol]

fuck off back to netrider, you're not worthy ;)

Is that where you have been for the last four years whilst the rest of us were here building bikes?

[rod185651]

Thanks Si... I'm back, fuckers!

... if you need to ask who that is, fuck off back to netrider, you're not worthy ;)


Is that where you have been for the last four years whilst the rest of us were here building bikes?

Ha! Snap!

[The Phantom]

Is that where you have been for the last four years whilst the rest of us were here building bikes?

Pwned :)

No, I looked at netrider ten or more years ago and it wasn't for me... pics on the way soon.

[The Phantom]

I was making lists of detail for this build and thought why not put it here, it might serve as motivation for the build and god knows I need that.

So here's the mods so far, at least as far as I can remember. Not all of these have gone beyond 'concept/fantasy' stage, but the ones that haven't aren't pipe dreams, a lot of though has gone into this. It's ten years since I started the build, after all :rolleyes:

And if it's mentioned, it means it's here in the workshop, except for the last category of potential changes.


Engine/gearbox/electrical


Stock internals (for now - got a genuine Vesrah full gasket kit stored for when it goes out to 840cc)
Stock carbs but with jetting fettled by Paul Schofield, who was an Aussie HRC race mech in the Corser days
Stock airbox with K&N filter and snorkel ditched
Indigo stainless steel full header system (new, never used)
Rear valve cover (with the big ugly EGR box) replaced by a front valve cover, plumbed to airbox for ventilation
Entire external cooling system replaced with EWP80/digital controller and custom plumbing - custom rad on the way
Ford Windsor 302 V8 block welch plug to block waterpump shaft hole (perfect fit)
Factory 'EVO Star' shift kit
Barnett heavy duty kevlar clutch with HD springs
Sebspeed custom clutch cover with clear lexan window
Coil on plug set-up from GSX-R (work in progress)
CBR600RR reg/reg (the VFR one is a failure waiting to happen)
2003 CBR600F4i dash (new, never used)
Shorai lithium battery to suit CBR929
CBR1000RR in-tank fuel pump, to ditch the heavy external pump that I'm struggling to hide...



Frame/subframes


Modified frame (for cosmetic and weight reasons - centrestand mounts removed, extraneous holes welded up etc.)
2002 R6 aluminium rear subframe
2003 CBR600F4i front subframe



Suspension - front (inc steering, brakes, wheel, controls)


CBR929 upper and lower tripleclamps
2005 ZX-10R fork uppers
2004 R1 fork stantions (rechromed by RAD)
Uppers, lowers and internals modified and fitted together by Zeno
2004 R1 radial calipers
2004 R1 radial brake master cylinder assembly
2004 front wheel
2004 front rotors
HEL braided brakelines
VTR1000F clutch master cylinder assembly
EPRO 4-piece billet clip-ons
H'arris "VFR"-branded grips
Pazzo shorty levers
Beringer fluid pots
Sebspeed titanium rotor spacers and axle spacers (bling!)



Suspension - rear (including drivetrain, brakes, wheel)


Ohlins HO802 (remote res) shock - from a 1998 CBR900RR, rebuilt and sprung for 85kg rider
Stock swingarm
Triumph 2002 Sprint ST hub/eccentric
Marchesini forged 10Y 848 rear wheel
Chain Gang 45T CNC-lightened steel rear sprocket
OEM 16T front sprocket
RK "HFO" 530 chain
Custom braided clutch line



Bodywork * (I am listing both the SF components and the full-faired components here, as I intend to switch between the two as the mood takes me)


Original tank, cosmetically modified
2002 R6 rear bodywork and seat
2002 R6 OEM Yamaha pillion seat cowl (try to find one of those! took me three years of searching)
'Clear Alternatives' smoked LED tail light with integrated indicators
2000 CBR600F upper front fairing
2000 CBR600 headlight housing modified with dual 2.5" Bi-Xenon HID headlights
SuperBlackbird mirrors with clear indicators
SuperBlackbird right side fairing
SuperBlackbird left side fairing integrated with CBR600F left side fairing
2004 R1 front guard
MV Agusta F4 headlight (for SF duties)



Not yet sorted, and potential changes to the build


Rearsets (CBR900RR up to 1998 are a bolt on, as are 2010-12 R1)
Tank - may switch to a 3rd Gen VFR750 tank which is less bulbous than the 4th Gen tank
Swingarm - MV Agusta F4 swingarm isn't hard to fit to a VFR frame and the hub/eccentric diameter is the same
Front wheel - I'd like a 10Y Marchesini to match the rear...
Front rotors - Galfer wave rotors are a maybe
Airbox - might go with a Durbahn CF RC30 airbox but that may also require RC30 Keihlins :cool: Save it for when we go to 840cc, we'll be looking for 130-140rwhp at that point


Upshot of all this should be 105rwhp and 185kg wet - and maybe 5-10kg less in SF guise. So she should get along alright.

Just don't expect to see it on the road anytime soon... I am probably the slowest bike builder on this and any other planet.

[hyofighter]

185 wet , wow mine is 205 wet , let me know where ya hide the 20 kg , nice list of goodies looking forward to seeing the tank carb and airbox mods

[The Phantom]

Hyo, a surprising amount of it is in the factory header system, and the Marchesini rear wheel is insanely light.

And you'd be surprised what the cooling system might weigh, I'll have figures on that soon but just handling the bits tells me the story.I've ditched the stainless steel pipe that goes from the OEM pump up around the stator housing and into the vee, because my EWP80 sits next to the vee - the EWP80 weighs about the same as the factory waterpump, but now there is no parasitic power loss (generally estimated to be worth 1-2hp). I've also ditched the thermostat and its entire housing, as the EWP digital controller means there's no need for a thermostat.

Shorai lithium battery... all the little things add up... cut the alloy tangs that the centrestand mounts to, loses 200-400g? I have the lugs I cut off, I should weigh them :)

I'm basing my estimate on precedents set on VFRD by the serious performance modders. I might be out, but it won't be by much.

Theres a dude in Europe who runs a 4th Gen VFR750 that is modified to the hilt as his track bike, and he claims to be down to 145kg... I actually believe it, but this guy has spent stupid money to get to that weight. He hoses ZX-10Rs on the Nurburgring with it, though.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/t1/1452355_544656722295931_1629622014_n.jpg

And my buddy Kev who lives on the Isle of Man runs this thing in the regular races there - they don't only race during TT week - his VFR is around the weight I am looking at:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/t31/q81/s720x720/265828_610886612269440_1364461836_o.jpg

[The Phantom]

OK things took a different turn for me following my last post, I have split with Mrs Phantom and moved into my own place. Not great (kids involved) but not entirely terrible either. My new place has a workshop big enough for three cars under it :)

(I say three cars to give the sense of space but it will only have one car - my 1969 Kombi project - plus two bikes, workbench, shelving, a bunch of bicycles and eventually a pool table)

So once I'm sorted with getting all my crap into it, I can get serious about sorting my bikes out.

Silver lining in every cloud - while this was going down I lucked into a deal on a Marchesini front rim to match my rear rim, from the US - set up for a 2006 R6 so will go straight into my 2004 R1 front end. $250 plus postage, and the dude selling is a shipping manager so he is finding me a killer deal for freight. Win! :)

[The Phantom]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/670/22509451053_f03657298d_h.jpg

[Gix11]

Shit yea! That's coming together nicely.

[K6Thou]

I kinda like the lines on that Phantom.

Oh and the time frame is similar to my k6 build.....

I need to stop fucking around with other bikes and just get one done....

[The Phantom]

Things are underway again and this time there will be some momentum. Well, famous last words and all that, but I'm finally in the right place to kick this thing along (and am motivated by recent posts by you guys so keep it coming!!!)

Having fitted the 10Y rear Marchesini, my OCD has been killing me every time I looked at the 5-spoke 2004 R1 front wheel - as beautiful and light as it is, it has to go. But try finding a Marchesini 10Y front for a Yamaha R1/R6 front end at a decent price... I nearly got there once with a dude in the US but he dogged me after saying he'd hold it till I had the money.

Anyway, I have found a substitute and it is a ripper. Perfect for the task.I'll share once I've secured the wheel, but it will be a go-to in future for this swap!!!

[Gix11]

Sweet. Keep the photos coming.

[LKC73]

Looks great Phantom, look forward to your updates on this build again.