How much power from a Gixxer 1100

[jmw76]

Hi Guys,

I have come across a lot of info on power outputs from the old oil cooled GSXR1100 motors.
There seems to be a thought that you can get 160+bhp at the wheel from an 1100 with a big bore kit and some head work. According to my rough calcs thats about 190bhp at the crank. I have heard of some claims of 200+.

Has anyone actually got any real experience in this area?

Maybe someone could help me set up my gsxr 1100J engine (currently at 1196). I estimate I only have about 150 at the crank.

Does anyone know of a dyno operator in Meblourne area that understands GSXRs and can run a small race car on their setup and charges reasonably?

Cheers
[?]

[BANDITROD]

talk to latheboy mate he builds/designs them for a living i am sure he will be able to help an i think supercharger mark's gix put out 163hp on the dyno at the fools run

[devo]

My old 1100 used tp pump out 150 BHP that was a handful to race , Gee i miss that bike :(
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/104017858863520.jpg

[jmw76]

Thanks guys.

Hey Devo, nice pic of your racer.
Can you recall any of the setup details/mods.
Was it a standard bore 1052/1127 engine?
I gather 150bhp was at the wheel.


Cheers

[latheboy]

First rule about HP .... NEVER claim anything. You just end up looking like a dickhead when its on the dyno.
Second rule about HP.... Crank HP is for wankers ... Who gives a fuck if you have got over 1000 at the crank if you've only got 200 at the wheels.. Crank HP is for people who want to talk about how good they are ... ie: mines bigger than yours bla bla bla ..
Third rule about HP .... fuck it i m a bit pissed ill get back to you ...

And i can prob help jmw76

[Docktor]

mine gassed out to 135hp at afr.... its a stock 1127 with NGK plugs J9A in case ya watching the other thread too..... got k and n pods and a zort wot only looks like a zorst but does no zorsting at all.<<<=====(sorry bout that, bit smashed) i thunked that were pretty good (tuned by kev sniffin the pipe) yeah ok, it might have been a "happy" dyno but I am takin it.

[Supercharger_Mark]

Hi Peter
I'm more than happy to tell you what I've done to the motor to get the extra HP.
Is your motor in a small race car?

[evilkarl]

I'd like to hear what latheboy and Mark have to say about increased horsepower in the old oil cooled models also.

PS: The dyno at AFR was 10%-15% "optimistic". It had no load cell or electronics hooked up.

[TurboKat]

Tell us O wise Supercharger, why is it so grunty [?]

[jmw76]

Well it appears I may have hit a bit of a nerve here.
Everyone wants to believe that they have big horsepower.
As latheboy says (in his pissed state) all that really counts is the bhp at the wheel(s).
I sort of agree. The thing still needs to be drive/rideable at the end of the day.
Big numbers are only a part of the story.
I epoxied up my intake ports, not to get heaps more power but, to make it pull better as you crack open the throttle out of turns.

SC Mark, I have the engine in a Formula Libre circuit race car.
Follow this link for more details.
http://members.optus.com.au/~pwstone
Drop me an email and we can share further details about our set ups, or share them here for others if you prefer.

Some great info flowing here guys. I am sure it will be useful for others.

I am a bit of a miser, so always looking for cost effective modifications.
I get enjoyment out of doing as much as possible myself.

I know that you can spend big bucks to get the results but sometimes you just end up spending big bucks.

Cheers

[jmw76]

Hi Guys,
Another thought.
Has anyone ever come across a comprehensive list of all the cam shaft details that were used in the various oil cooled engines (OE and aftermarket).
From what I understand, Suzuki did a fair bit of tinkering with lift and profile over the years.
It would be nice to have a full understanding of what is likely to work with what.
I also saw reference to the use of the downdraft RF 900 head on water cooled Gixxers. Anyone heard of this or know what can be achieved with this setup?

Cheers

[gixkat]

Hey Peter, It would be a great sticky for the suzuki section or this section for that matter if you could put together a Greg Cope style tuning and building tips page for the gsxr mill, something guys could use as a guide to building mild to wild motors, or just good tech tips for different set ups, I realise it would require a fair bit of work on your behalf but it really would make a great reference guide for the gixxer owners here.

Ps: There have been wild claims about my (1340)gixxers HP but i think i will wait until i have some dyno proof before releasing the real figures.
cheers, GK.

[Watto]

yeah that'd be cool to hear what actually works (especially since I've got a slabby 11 on the build :))

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by TurboKat

Tell us O wise Supercharger, why is it so grunty [?]


Doesn't Mark's bike have a bandit engine?

[El_Hefty]

quote:Originally posted by evilkarl


PS: The dyno at AFR was 10%-15% "optimistic". It had no load cell or electronics hooked up.




shhhh my 113hp at AFR after 85,000k's was spot on

... well at least the smoke on the rundown was real:D:D

[Supercharger_Mark]

Yes JackTar it is a bandit motor.

[TurboKat]

Don't be shy now Mark, tell us what you've done to make all those powers.

[Supercharger_Mark]

I use poo spark plugs.

[latheboy]

Go'arn Mark .... tell us tell us

[Large]

quote:Originally posted by little_large


quote:Originally posted by evilkarl


PS: The dyno at AFR was 10%-15% "optimistic". It had no load cell or electronics hooked up.




shhhh my 113hp at AFR after 85,000k's was spot on

... well at least the smoke on the rundown was real:D:D


That was just clearing its throats.

[Supercharger_Mark]

You first Latheboy.[:I]

[BWIAN]

Buddie of mine here in Adelaide had 159 at the rear wheel from an 1186, Jim Hanlon (HRE) built Engine.
Same motor would pull constant 9.5's @145mph at AIR back in the day, (mid 1990's).
Was a K/L Model, 40mm Mikuni's, Dyna Ign etc.

[latheboy]

I dont know bugger all about making power out of the oil cooled motors ... I know stuff from working on the mighty red motors;) but with oilies i've never put anything into practice.
I build dyno's so i can prove whats happaning between changes.

When i build a grunter some of the things ill do,
Knife edge the crank
bigger valve's
Choke the inlet for air speed
lighten and balance the rods and pistons (Custom made?)
CC the head
Index the spark plugs
Tune the inlet runners for upper mid-range power
Tune the exhaust for the same
Beburr the block
Use a lighter oil
Fuel? Id want pump gas but for a race bike/car it'd be AV gas, and it smells nice:D

All simple stuff here really

I have grown up around the old school hot rodders and their mentality....You want more power get more inch's and more fuel, doesn't really work that way but fuel was cheap then.

[scotty]

quote:Originally posted by Supercharger_Mark

You first Latheboy.[:I]
ok c'morn fes up mark

[Supercharger_Mark]

Ok Ok.
Well first of all, I don’t clame to be some guru high performance engine builder.
Before I left school, I always tinkered with and had a keen enthusiasm in motors, any motors, how they worked and what made them go better.
I bought my first deburring tool about 25 years ago and read and studied as many books on porting as I could get my hands on at the time, I knew that the more volume you could get into the cylinder the more power you got out, and although there are many other factors that need to be addressed, port flow is very important, so the goll is to get as much in as you can in, then get it out again.
Motors are just one big compromise, what ever you do to a particular part at one end; you have to change something else down the line.
Anyway, enough rambling, I’ll try to tell you what I did to the motor in Brutus and why, starting from the intake.

Engine is/was a 96 Bandit 1157cc

To get the air flow started I put 30mm velocity stacks on, this helps direct & increase air speed through the venture of the carby which is needed to draw out and atomize the fuel with the air.
The carbs are Flat slide Mikuni RS 38mm, if you go too big in carby size, you slow the air speed down which affects fuel atomization and can corse flat spots or bogging, if too small you restrict flow volume. 40’s may have been OK but 38’s was a safer option.
Next was to match the ports, unless you have a flow bench, don’t fuck too much with the basic shape, however you can clean up any burs, sharp edges, machine marks etc. pay attention to matching parts like manifold to head, get rid of any steps, also just below the valve seats where the machining stops and the casting begins,(bowl area) radius any bumps out, another restriction is the valve guide which protrudes into the port and restricts air flow, grind the sides down but be careful not to take too much off .
Another thing is don’t polish intake ports, leave a relatively coarse finish, because atomized fuel will stick and turn to liquid drops on a polished service where a coarse finish helps keep it in the air.
A polished exhaust port is OK (but I did not polish mine) the Bandit exhaust ports were very restricted and needed a lot of material taken off to match the i.d. of the EX gasket.

Next is the combustion chamber.
Deshroud the valves but don’t take too much off the squish area, yes this is a compromise. If you deshroud the valve you help unrestrict the air flow but if you reduce the squish area you cut down on the turbulence created which gives a better burn.
The squish area is something some builders don’t pay much attention to; it is the thin gap area at TDC between the piston and head on a closed chamber head. When the charge is ignited in the chamber, what ever is left in the squish area dose not completely get burnt, so if you measure this gap (mine was 1.6mm) and reduce it to .8mm (allowing for conrod stretch) by decking the barrels, you get a higher compression ratio, more charge in the combustion chamber and better turbulence which gives a better/more complete burn.
Remove any sharp edges in the chamber as they can create hot spots.
Check valve guides for wear & valves for leeks, a 3 angle valve & seat job would improve flow, (I did not do that).

Cams
I decided on GSXR1100 cams, as far as I could tell in my research they are the same profile from 86 to 92. I could be wrong though, they give good low to mid range power and come on strong from about 7 – 10 grand.
Adjustable sprockets are a must, the standard specs are:


GSXR1100 86-90 stock cam specifications:
Intake at 0.001" lift:: open @ 42 deg BTDC, close @ 70 deg ABDC, duration 292 degrees
Intake lobe center line: 104 degrees
Exhaust at 0.001" lift: open @ 65 deg BBDC, close @ 39 ATDC, duration 284 degrees
Exhaust lobe center line: 103 degrees

If you want more bottom-end torque with very little top end loss, advance your intake cam by 2 degrees.
Which is what I did.

Pistons
I decided on Wiseco 11:1 1216cc pistons which is the maximum bore without changing the sleeves, because, YOU CARN’T BEAT CUBES.
Although I haven’t checked, by decking the barrels I should be up around 11.5 or 12:1 ratio.

Exhaust
You can get good power gains with a tuned length hi flow system.
After quite a few pipe changes, I settled on a modified Vance & hind system & strait through muffler. (Well it sort of muffles).

Electrics
Standard 87 GSXR1100 duel pickup signal generator, Dina coils, stainless steel core high tension leads.


I use high octane pump fuel and it all seems to work well.
There is a lot more that can be done, but money dose not allow.

Anyway, be it right or wrong, that’s what I did.

[Docktor]

Ok, since we lettin secrets out.
I put pods on and poo plugs and then took it to kev and said it dont fuggin run right, fuggin fix it !!!. He fixed it, i drank some of his beers and he cooked a bar b and i came home. oh kev , gimme me balancer back, i need it for gixxa kart, it dont fuggin run right either....... !!