Alloy Frames Q?

[ozkat]

On "Spondon" style alloy frames what wall thickness are the tubes and what kind of aluminium is used? Large has his up here now but i dont think he would appreciate me drilling holes in it or taking a sample.

[Large]

der stupid

The alloy is whatever suzuki use to make sv650s and the wall thickness is whatever is left after you rub out the corners with wet and dry

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by ozkat

On "Spondon" style alloy frames what wall thickness are the tubes and what kind of aluminium is used? Large has his up here now but i dont think he would appreciate me drilling holes in it or taking a sample.


The alloy is 7020 (not available in Oz) wall thickness varies depending on the area of the frame.

[ozkat]

Thanks Tony, is there an alloy equal to the 7020? Why isnt it available here?

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by ozkat

Thanks Tony, is there an alloy equal to the 7020? Why isnt it available here?

No, no real equivalent, and there is fuck all available here in exotic materials whether it is Aluminium, magnesium, steel. Pretty much anything other than basic stuff I import from Europe or the USA.

[ozkat]

Are any of the following available here?
Aluminium Alloy 1050/1080/1200
Aluminium Alloy 1350
Aluminium Alloy 3003/3103
Aluminium Alloy 5005
Aluminium Alloy 5052/5251/5754
Aluminium Alloy 5083
Aluminium Alloy 5086
Aluminium Alloy 5154
Aluminium Alloy 5454
Heat Treatable Aluminium Alloys
Aluminium Alloy 2104/2024
Aluminium Alloy 6082/6061
Aluminium Alloy 7020
Aluminium Alloy 7075

Is there any alloy tube available here suitable to build a bike frame?

[latheboy]

I got 7075 and 7020 from a place in shitney a couple of years ago, sorry cant remember where ... You can get it but sell the other kidney so you can have the stuff
6061 is every day stuff now, you can get it most good ally places
I dont think you'll have much luck with tube tho

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by latheboy

I got 7075 and 7020 from a place in shitney a couple of years ago, sorry cant remember where ... You can get it but sell the other kidney so you can have the stuff
6061 is every day stuff now, you can get it most good ally places
I dont think you'll have much luck with tube tho


7075 round bar and plate is readily available, but it is not weldable, I tried 6 months ago to get 7020 tubing and ended up importing it from the UK.

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by ozkat

Are any of the following available here?
Aluminium Alloy 1050/1080/1200
Aluminium Alloy 1350
Aluminium Alloy 3003/3103
Aluminium Alloy 5005
Aluminium Alloy 5052/5251/5754
Aluminium Alloy 5083
Aluminium Alloy 5086
Aluminium Alloy 5154
Aluminium Alloy 5454
Heat Treatable Aluminium Alloys
Aluminium Alloy 2104/2024
Aluminium Alloy 6082/6061
Aluminium Alloy 7020
Aluminium Alloy 7075

Is there any alloy tube available here suitable to build a bike frame?


If you can get the 7020 tubing, that is the go, and if you can, let me know where you got it from.
6061 may do the job, but it depends on how the frame is designed, and what its application will be. Section size will have to be increased significantly over 7020, and post weld heat treatment would be recommended.

[ozkat]

I found this about the 6061. Not too sure it would be any good for a motorcycle racing frame.
Aluminium alloy 6082/6061 is a widely used structural alloys for light to medium strength applications. They combine good formability, weldability, corrosion resistance and strength after heat treatment. Since they lose appreciable strength when welded, the 5000 series alloys replace them in some marine applications. Availability of bars, shapes, tubing and pipe in the same alloy helps make this a popular selection. 6082 is the most common heat treated plate from stock. 6061 is more commonly used in the USA.

[ozkat]

It would be along these lines but instead of the dual backbone id use a perimiter frame using twin or even triple 25mm or 32mm tube with 3mm wall.

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/95894516458368.jpg

[latheboy]

I used 5083 a bit and found it to be good stuff, but i never make a frame or anything that id worry about it twisting.
I got a few down hill pushy's and they are all 7000 series, try getting onto a frame manufacture in OZ and see what they do....

[ozkat]

I know it may be easier to use Moly but i want to do it out of alloy.

[StuNVA]

Give the guys at Scottys Choppers at Uralla a call and see what they use / have there. They make all their own frames and swingarms on site.

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by StuNVA

Give the guys at Scottys Choppers at Uralla a call and see what they use / have there. They make all their own frames and swingarms on site.


Most chopper frames are just steam pipe.

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by ozkat

I know it may be easier to use Moly but i want to do it out of alloy.

If you really want it out of ally, just import what you need. I find that most stuff is less expensive than here anyway, even with the shipping costs, and they can usually get it to me quicker than stuff I have to order out of melbourne.

[latheboy]

Who do you order from in melbourne Tony?

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by ozkat

It would be along these lines but instead of the dual backbone id use a perimiter frame using twin or even triple 25mm or 32mm tube with 3mm wall.

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/95894516458368.jpg


You going to use any bolt on machined plates acting as a stressed member similar to the pic?

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by latheboy

Who do you order from in melbourne Tony?

I dont normally order direct from melbourne, it's just that stockists up here don't stock anything, and they get their stock from melbourne. If it wont fit in an airbag, it normally takes over a week to be delivered:(

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by latheboy

I used 5083 a bit and found it to be good stuff, but i never make a frame or anything that id worry about it twisting.
I got a few down hill pushy's and they are all 7000 series, try getting onto a frame manufacture in OZ and see what they do....

I think 5083 is marine grade, most tinnys are made from it. The push bike idea is a good one, there are some cool sections availabe in pushbikes.

[ozkat]

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31


quote:Originally posted by ozkat

It would be along these lines but instead of the dual backbone id use a perimiter frame using twin or even triple 25mm or 32mm tube with 3mm wall.



You going to use any bolt on machined plates acting as a stressed member similar to the pic?

I wasnt planning on using the plate as it will be self starting and i wont be using an offset sprocket but using 2 chains and a jack shaft.

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by ozkat


quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31


quote:Originally posted by ozkat

It would be along these lines but instead of the dual backbone id use a perimiter frame using twin or even triple 25mm or 32mm tube with 3mm wall.



You going to use any bolt on machined plates acting as a stressed member similar to the pic?

I wasnt planning on using the plate as it will be self starting and i wont be using an offset sprocket but using 2 chains and a jack shaft.


Give me a shout if you need any FEA on the design anyway, it can be tailored to suit whatever material you end up using.

[ozkat]

Thanks Tony, every little bit helps. Im in Bris every second day so maybe we can catch up sometime.

[JackTar]

I would speak to Chopaweeza about frames too Shayne.

[sharky]

Or Shaun at Pommychoppers.

[zx12argh]

Need anything 3D CAD give me a shout shayne.

[ozkat]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

Need anything 3D CAD give me a shout shayne.
Thanks Pete ill take you up on that offer. Here are some pics, now do your thing ;):D Just a normal steering head will do tho.

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/94202327143505.jpg

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/94202327152124.jpg

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/94202327103948.jpg

[latheboy]

A few dimensions would help with building a cad model....
ie: wheel base and tube Ø

Does that have a unvisable fuel tank? Whats the knob/cap in the second pick that looks like a fuel cap?

[ozkat]

That would be a fuel cap, the frame holds the fuel. As for dimensions 42deg rake(i think) 82in wheelbase, 32mm dia tube 3mm wall, 12in wide rear wheel, 3in of chain adjustment, no need for fuel in frame for me.

[Tony OW31]

The disks and calipers don't look too impressive for something I would imagine will have to stop from some pretty high speeds[:0]

[ozkat]

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31

The disks and calipers don't look too impressive for something I would imagine will have to stop from some pretty high speeds[:0]
Thats why some bikes use parachutes, personaly i prefer bigger brakes.

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by ozkat


quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31

The disks and calipers don't look too impressive for something I would imagine will have to stop from some pretty high speeds[:0]
Thats why some bikes use parachutes, personaly i prefer bigger brakes.


Yeah, I would agree with you there, give me good brakes any day. Even if it had a parachute I would still want good brakes.

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by ozkat


quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

Need anything 3D CAD give me a shout shayne.
Thanks Pete ill take you up on that offer. Here are some pics, now do your thing ;):D Just a normal steering head will do tho.


No probs mate. :D
Extremely rough job mate - to do it properly I'd really need node to node distances bend angles etc. But hey, it only took me the length of one tool album to do.

I could have resized the images them but its raining and I can't be arsed. [:p]

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/30313514982259.jpg


http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/30313514982135.jpg


http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/30313514953972.jpg


http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/30313514953959.jpg

[Tony OW31]

Is that an assembly or a part with seperate entities?

[zx12argh]

Its a weldment part so somewhere in between an assembly and a part. Its a part made up of separate bodies.
Like I said its pretty rough, i haven't even got proper bends but the wireframe is drawn and wouldn't take too much to refine.

[pappas]

Was that done with Autocad Mechanical? Got a spare copy?

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by pappas

Was that done with Autocad Mechanical? Got a spare copy?

I think it is Solidworks, although I could be wrong, I usually am LOL.

[latheboy]

Looks like Solidworks.....

Anything with autocad in the name is ghey....

[zx12argh]

Yupp Solidworks 08. I dont have any copies of Autocad...
Solidworks 09 is where its at these days tho, should be upgrading to that at work soon.

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

Yupp Solidworks 08. I dont have any copies of Autocad...
Solidworks 09 is where its at these days tho, should be upgrading to that at work soon.


Try and resist, it is fucked, worse than 08, and that was fucked. I still use 07, but have 09 installed as well for when i receive drawings from clients.

[latheboy]

So whats the issue with 09?
I use 08 and have had no problems with it... Yes it crashes every now and again but its been doing the since i've been using it .. 05 was the first version i used.

[ozkat]

Bloody hell Pete i was kidding when i told you to get to work. You blokes amaze me with your computer skills, i have trouble sending emails. Great job tho Pete. Let me know if you need any more info.

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by latheboy

So whats the issue with 09?
I use 08 and have had no problems with it... Yes it crashes every now and again but its been doing the since i've been using it .. 05 was the first version i used.

Every "upgrade" they bring out gets more complicated, harder to navigate and you have to go through a learning curve every time. Why cant they just add the new feature set and leave the user interface the same.
09 slowed down my pc by abuot 20%, and it crashes more than 08 ever did.
I've been using solidworks since 99, and to me 07 is the pick of the versions. I suppose it depends on what you do tho, some people may need all the new features, we have 16 seats and I havn't met anyone that that does use all the added features[?]

[latheboy]

16 seats ... Fuck man that must cost you a bit ..
And Pete, you missed a bit you dickhead;):D ... Small cross pipe where the top runners are bent

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by latheboy

16 seats ... Fuck man that must cost you a bit ..
And Pete, you missed a bit you dickhead;):D ... Small cross pipe where the top runners are bent

The 16 seats are at my day job, I'm glad I'm not paying the bill, just the maintenance is a fortune. I only have 1 seat in my business, and that costs enough to make my eyes water.

[latheboy]

So back to the frame questions......
If i go and make myself a frame what do i have to do to get it reg'ed ?
Is it pommie or choppa that build custum frames?

And on a side note, does anyone have "Club reg" on anything? do they still have to be 100% legal?

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by ozkat

Bloody hell Pete i was kidding when i told you to get to work. You blokes amaze me with your computer skills, i have trouble sending emails. Great job tho Pete. Let me know if you need any more info.


Hey Shanye, no probs mate. I was raining out and I get a kick out of designing something that isn't window or door related (my normal worl).

This really is a roughie. To get it down as a replica of the one in the image I would need more of the node - node distances and angles. What front/rear rim + tyre diameter etc. Otherwise we can design it around whatever engine you want to run, or leave enough room for a couple different engines and you just change the mounts.

No information is too much mate. Most of my job right now is reverse engineering other peoples shit but putting enough differences into it to call it "unique". I'm used to working off bugger all info. I just need all the critical information to make it work.

Oh and BTW if anyone has work for a Mech Eng with 5 years 3D CAD experience I may be looking for a new job soon.

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31


quote:Originally posted by latheboy

So whats the issue with 09?
I use 08 and have had no problems with it... Yes it crashes every now and again but its been doing the since i've been using it .. 05 was the first version i used.

Every "upgrade" they bring out gets more complicated, harder to navigate and you have to go through a learning curve every time. Why cant they just add the new feature set and leave the user interface the same.
09 slowed down my pc by abuot 20%, and it crashes more than 08 ever did.
I've been using solidworks since 99, and to me 07 is the pick of the versions. I suppose it depends on what you do tho, some people may need all the new features, we have 16 seats and I havn't met anyone that that does use all the added features[?]


Shit - are you kidding me? 07 has been the best version I've used yet but we are still only on 08. This version is a fucking dog - I can't use transparencies of any description in my models otherwise it blue screens and reboots my PC. 09 was supposed to fix all of the bug issues.

I will say tho if you go through the pain and learn a lot of the interface bits that 08 brought in (and hopefully work better in 09) that they do help a lot.

[latheboy]

I can't use transparencies of any description in my models otherwise it blue screens and reboots my PC.[:0]WTF Im no computer guy but that sounds like a hard ware problem to me ... I've got an assey with over 1000 parts in it and can use all the functions with no problems

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by latheboy

I can't use transparencies of any description in my models otherwise it blue screens and reboots my PC.[:0]WTF Im no computer guy but that sounds like a hard ware problem to me ... I've got an assey with over 1000 parts in it and can use all the functions with no problems


Yeah tell that to my IT department. They just aren't interested. I reckon if I could underclock the gpu on my video card it would probably fix it. IT is adamant its a software issue tho. I can open an assembly with about 100 parts (if that) turn on a transparency count to 15 and my pc will reboot. :(

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh


quote:Originally posted by latheboy

I can't use transparencies of any description in my models otherwise it blue screens and reboots my PC.[:0]WTF Im no computer guy but that sounds like a hard ware problem to me ... I've got an assey with over 1000 parts in it and can use all the functions with no problems


Yeah tell that to my IT department. They just aren't interested. I reckon if I could underclock the gpu on my video card it would probably fix it. IT is adamant its a software issue tho. I can open an assembly with about 100 parts (if that) turn on a transparency count to 15 and my pc will reboot. :(

I think 08 was virtually a complete re-write from 07, my cam software is integrated in to solidworks, and it will work in every version from 99 to 07, but is incompatable with 08 and 09, it will not even install.

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by latheboy

I can't use transparencies of any description in my models otherwise it blue screens and reboots my PC.[:0]WTF Im no computer guy but that sounds like a hard ware problem to me ... I've got an assey with over 1000 parts in it and can use all the functions with no problems

what version are you using? the jump in hardware requirements from 07 to 08 was huge

[latheboy]

Im using 08, i am running it on a new puter, i told the nerd i wanted it for solidworks 08 and he spec'ed it. I had vista removed and XP put on and the prick charged me for a DOWN grade. I have no idea how many thingywhats it has or ram and shit ... I just know how to drive the program.