NSW wants these laws , like SA [Archive]

EFE 1230

29-03-2009, 06:46 PM

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

I am all for any law that will get half-witted vermin off the streets, whether they ride a bike or not. Because at the end of the day if you have done nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

The problem with laws used to target one group is they can be then applied to other groups, substitute "bikies" with another acronym and where does it stop?

There are laws on the books already that target criminals illegal behavior so if the coppers can't stop them with those then they are doing something wrong.

When the trouble making bikies are gone who's next ??

Those other noisy feral motorcyclist who flout vehicle design rules with their heavily modified bikes and ride around in groups terrorizing other motorists ??.

Cruisecontrol

29-03-2009, 06:47 PM

Trouble as in unroadworthiness due to mods?

EFE 1230

29-03-2009, 06:51 PM

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

Trouble as in unroadworthiness due to mods?

Nah, the copper saw it was a YAMAHA and probably meant "Has it broken down on you/blown up/given you AIDS" ect..............:D

Cruisecontrol

29-03-2009, 06:57 PM

quote:Originally posted by EFE 1230

The problem with laws used to target one group is they can be then applied to other groups, substitute "bikies" with another acronym and where does it stop?

There are laws on the books already that target criminals illegal behavior so if the coppers can't stop them with those then they are doing something wrong.

When the trouble making bikies are gone who's next ??

Those other noisy feral motorcyclist who flout vehicle design rules with their heavily modified bikes and ride around in groups terrorizing other motorists ??.

We all know certain things we do to our bikes aren't quite legit, but how can we possibly complain when we get busted for it?

I don't deal/manufacture narcotics or beat people to death in an airport terminal, so regardless of what group they are targeting, I personally have nothing more to fear than a defect sticker.

Neo Dutch

29-03-2009, 07:07 PM

So if you belong to an organisation, and some of the members of that organisation are committing, or have committed crimes, then you and everyone else in that organisation can be labelled as criminals and jailed. Won't be much room after they lock up the NSW Labor party and all the coppers.

devo

29-03-2009, 07:13 PM

I used to frequent this site alot and I agree with Oz and Cruise and while Blade said what he did I am sure it was Tongue in cheek.
But of late there has been a few dimwits on here that think owning a Streetfighter makes you a Bad Arse and some of the comments made are pretty fucking stupid.
I was talking to Ozkat about it the other day.
You want to be respected then earn your respect .
We as Streetfighter members paying or not have an Obligation to Si (Gix11) to be a group of Adults who share a common passion and that is we are all united by our passion whether it be a Harley or a postie bike.
We all ride and while I respect freedom of speech ... Think before you post anything that may bring us as an organisation in to disrepute.
Me saying this may put a few noses out of joint but me as do a fair few other long term members are really over some of the bullshit that is posted on here.
No I am not talking about Porn and sick pics of people with body parts hanging of , I am all for that .
It is the words that are said that piss us off the most.
Thanks
Devo
Oh and Si (Gix11) if i am out of line I am sorry then you may remove me from the members list.

29-03-2009, 07:16 PM

Oh FFS it was said tongue in cheek.

But yeah I agree it's the thin edge of the wedge.All bikes have two wheels, we ride so we're on a spree of pillaging and so forth.

Thing that worries me, yeah I maybe a bit paranoid, is Joe Public taking actions into his own hands

"I'm sorry I didn't see him, he came out of nowhere."

Anyone have any idea on the story in the Sydney papers a few weeks ago about some so called MC's not really being into the bikes but more for the crime ? What they refer to them as "Nike Bikies" ?

devo

29-03-2009, 07:18 PM

quote:Oh FFS it was said tongue in cheek
Hey Blade I knew it was tongue in cheek mate and it give me a bit of a chuckle ..... ;)

29-03-2009, 07:19 PM

Thanks Devo.

But yeah to those that I offended I'm sorry and feel chastised.

gixkat

29-03-2009, 07:19 PM

Fair dinkum it's like banging your head against a brick wall with some blokes[B)]
PS: I think most of us recognised the comment for what it was Blade, a bit of a joke, no offence taken here I had a chuckle too:)

ozkat

29-03-2009, 07:21 PM

quote:Originally posted by Neo Dutch

So if you belong to an organisation, and some of the members of that organisation are committing, or have committed crimes, then you and everyone else in that organisation can be labelled as criminals and jailed.
That is excatly what these laws are being made for. Lets say if myself, Large, Gixkat and say Billwizz are caught producing and/or selling illeagal drugs would that affect the rest of ASF? You bet it would. Guilty by assosiation.

devo

29-03-2009, 07:21 PM

quote:But yeah to those that I offended I'm sorry and feel chastised.
:D:D:D:Dchastised ay :D:D:D:D is like a form of bondage [:0]

29-03-2009, 07:31 PM

quote:Originally posted by ozkat

quote:Originally posted by Neo Dutch

So if you belong to an organisation, and some of the members of that organisation are committing, or have committed crimes, then you and everyone else in that organisation can be labelled as criminals and jailed.
That is excatly what these laws are being made for. Lets say if myself, Large, Gixkat and say Billwizz are caught producing and/or selling illeagal drugs would that affect the rest of ASF? You bet it would. Guilty by assosiation.

Hopefully it won't be as easy as that in NSW as they've been reports that "Those Who Know Better" will have to apply to the Courts, They say it's to protect our civil liberties.
But I laso believe in magic beans and the easter bunny too.

EFE 1230

29-03-2009, 07:33 PM

quote:Originally posted by bladehunter

Anyone have any idea on the story in the Sydney papers a few weeks ago about some so called MC's not really being into the bikes but more for the crime ? What they refer to them as "Nike Bikies" ?

That's the new mob "NOTORIOUS" the name came before the colors/bikes, they were a crime gang not "bikies" to start with.

Iceman

29-03-2009, 07:38 PM

quote:Original post by Ozkat
Lets say if myself, Large, Gixkat and say Billwizz are caught producing and/or selling illeagal drugs would that affect the rest of ASF? You bet it would. Guilty by assosiation.So does that mean coz you are a drag racer, after all that shit happened to Brett Stevens you are already guilty by assosiation?

I don't think so.

EFE 1230

29-03-2009, 07:40 PM

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

We all know certain things we do to our bikes aren't quite legit, but how can we possibly complain when we get busted for it?

I don't deal/manufacture narcotics or beat people to death in an airport terminal, so regardless of what group they are targeting, I personally have nothing more to fear than a defect sticker.

But the laws needed to prosecute them are already on the books, the fact they are "bikies" isn't what makes their activities illegal.

Large

29-03-2009, 07:46 PM

quote:Originally posted by Iceman

quote:Original post by Ozkat
Lets say if myself, Large, Gixkat and say Billwizz are caught producing and/or selling illeagal drugs would that affect the rest of ASF? You bet it would. Guilty by assosiation.So does that mean coz you are a drag racer, after all that shit happened to Brett Stevens you are already guilty by assosiation?

I don't think so.

Hey Shaynee. When do I get my pill press back?

Cruisecontrol

29-03-2009, 07:47 PM

Wasn't it confiscated by the coppers via Brett Stevens?

Cruisecontrol

29-03-2009, 07:50 PM

quote:Originally posted by EFE 1230

But the laws needed to prosecute them are already on the books, the fact they are "bikies" isn't what makes their activities illegal.

However, until they (for arguments sake) deem that ASF is a "bikie gang" then it is no different to how things are currently.
If there is a continual issue with illegal activities within a group, be it motorcyclists or a chess club, then they deserve all the attention they get.

EFE 1230

29-03-2009, 07:51 PM

Here's a Daily Telegraph article I found

By Kara Lawrence

June 16, 2008 12:00am

A NEW breed of criminal gang whose members specialise in drug dealing, extortion and violence is taking over Sydney's premier nightclub district.

Police fear the gang Notorious has become the security muscle for a Kings Cross identity.

The gang is the first known in Sydney to follow an international trend of being outlaw "bikies without bikes".

While its dozens of city-based members wear full bikie colours, only a few members ride motorcycles.

Its members range from seasoned, senior former members of the now-defunct Nomads outlaw motorcycle gang's Parramatta chapter to newly-recruited teenagers as young as 14.

They are largely from Sydney's western suburbs and of Middle Eastern and Pacific Islander background.

The gang is believed to be focused on criminal activities and have links to the security industry.

It is feared they are acting as unofficial security to Kings Cross nightclubs linked to one person in particular.

Late last month, police from the Middle Eastern organised crime squad targeted Notorious in an operation on the nightclub strip.

They arrested two alleged members of Notorious - one an 18-year-old Guildford man arrested with ecstasy tablets at a nightclub.

Court documents show he was charged with two counts of supplying a prohibited drug and two of possessing a prohibited drug.

He was refused bail and is to appear at Central Local Court on June 30.

Another, a 14-year-old from Guildford, was arrested in the same police operation while he was in a car illegally parked in the CBD. A search found more ecstasy tablets and the boy was charged with drugs supply and possession.

Police are also investigating suspected links between Notorious and a 30-year-old Kellyville man arrested last week in an alleyway behind a Surry Hills nightclub.

The man, recently released from prison, allegedly had a home-made machine gun and an ammunition magazine containing 32 bullets concealed in a bag. The man was charged with being armed with intent to commit an indictable offence, possessing a firearm and other firearm-related offences.

Notorious was also believed linked to an assault at an Eastern Suburbs pub last year.

It is speculated that Notorious came into being following a series of attacks targeting a nightclub owner ear last year, coinciding with the firebombing of the Parramatta chapter's Granville clubhouse.

Rival outlaw bikie gang the Comancheros was suspected of being behind the firebombing.

In March 2007, masked gunmen burst into a nightclub, firing shots into the ceiling and smashing up the bar. The nightclub owner's bodyguard was allegedly injured during the incident.

It is feared the Comancheros have been trying to wrestle control of the nightclub strip and conflict with Notorious may be on the agenda.

ozkat

29-03-2009, 07:57 PM

Bear

29-03-2009, 07:57 PM

All this biker gang stuff is a changing of the guard - a new breed of gang lifestyle is here.

We'll all suffer to a degree because the Pollies want to be seen as acting and they'll place indiscriminate laws in place before they sit down and do some actual research on our culture/s and how to deal with the bad element.

EFE 1230

29-03-2009, 08:02 PM

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/77717777812735.jpg

What 14yo could resist such a cool back patch huh???

EFE 1230

29-03-2009, 08:14 PM

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

However, until they (for arguments sake) deem that ASF is a "bikie gang" then it is no different to how things are currently.
If there is a continual issue with illegal activities within a group, be it motorcyclists or a chess club, then they deserve all the attention they get.

You mean like when a "group" continually flouts Australian ADR/state roadworthy requirements by driving blatantly illegally modified vehicles on the Queens highway with no regard for other people's safety?

Yeah, let's pass laws that it's illegal for them to associate socially and in public and in private or even in cyber space for the good of the law abiding public that way they can't discuss how to break the laws by modifying their vehicles.

Cruisecontrol

29-03-2009, 08:26 PM

Hmm, food for thought, I must say. (No sarcasm intended or implied)

Jockney Rebel

29-03-2009, 08:36 PM

my two bob....i can see valid points form both angles debated here my personal veiw on this is the states paranioa over organised crime whether it be bikie based or otherwise ,,
from what i can gather over the last 40yrs organised crime in Australia has been on a par with America as far as violence and proliferation's concerned .I have no great love for hells angels or any other group thats gained there status through intimitading other sections of the populus ..and whilst we are just a group of bikers [note the term] enjoying our lifestyle choices .

.the general public only remember the bad stuff and attribute it to all bikers and yes they are that narrow minded
..while it may only mean inthe long run a bit of greif from the old bill,not getting served in pubs if you ride etc etc ..[it is still persecution i experienced this when i was ateenager in britian and that was from the fallout from the 60's rockers ]it will make it increasingly diffcult to get venues to hold events as they will be paraniod too

it will happen here because the new laws are designed to alienate these groups from general society ..and in my opinion groups like ours will suffer as collateral damage.

as far as "you have nothing to fear if youve done nothing wrong" 'goes read the letter of most traffic laws they are based on probabilities ..and so are these new laws .
the police only have to have reasonable probability that you are associated and thats enough for the charges to stick

..all the older poms here will no doubt remember Thatchers ..."sus laws" during the 80's when a policeman could pull u and search you inthe street on suspicion my brother and i were searched in 1986 merely for having a bin bag over our shoulders ..that was the cops 'reasonable suspiscion'..
food for thought

ozkat

29-03-2009, 08:59 PM

I know people i consider to be friends who are members of The Black Uhlans, Rebels, Odins Warriors and the Outlaws, some i have known since school, some i met later in life. I dont consider any of these people to be criminals, nor do i consider myself a criminal by association. But under these new proposed laws they are and i am.

Iceman

29-03-2009, 09:03 PM

I think there's quite a few of us in that situation.

EFE 1230

29-03-2009, 09:09 PM

That's the "DANGER" of the laws, I work with 2 blokes that have HD's the shops they go to get work done are "outlaw" owned/run so technically under the laws they can be done for association even though they are 100% cleanskins.

Jockney Rebel

29-03-2009, 09:17 PM

oz I too have mates who are Angels back home and like you i dont consider them villians but because some members of their group[not even the same chapter] they are labeled as such .
the trouble with bikie gangs here, as far as i can see, is that the criminal element within them has hijacked the image and used it to intimidate their victims and as such dragged the whole scene into that black hole
they inherit discrimination
just like all jews are tight ,
all west indians are drug dealers ,
all italians are mobsters ,
etc etc
so based on that logic ...every body who rides a harley and wears a vest will be pulled regardless of their affiliations ..youll be seeing a load of weekend warriors[dudes who are not in any club but like the image ] selling their harleys and buying summat else ..itll then spread to include ALL bikers ..
and anyone thinks that the government wil be able to police these laws to any real extent of fairness ........they're dreaming itll be a case of
bikers are a minority and if we just hassle them all then well get the ones we want eventually..
just like Adolf did 70yrs ago

ozkat

29-03-2009, 09:32 PM

Joe public doesnt have a clue of the difference between "Bikers" and "Bikies" and they really dont care. They see a bunch of people on bikes and asume we are all "Bikies" most non riding people wouldnt know the difference between a Hayabusa and a Harley. We apparantley ride loud bikes, disregard road rules and are most of the time dressed in leather. They consider us all to be the same. They live on their 600sqm block with their 2.5 kids and drive a Corolla to work, ofcourse we scare the shit out of them. We are different to them. But ill be fucked if im branded a criminal because i ride and am different.

Tony OW31

29-03-2009, 09:42 PM

It wont make any difference as far as I am concerned, the blatant discrimination and harassment is already there. I have been in my day job for 10 yrs, on the route I generally take there is a spot just over the crest of a hill where the speed limit drops from 100 to 60 for no apparent reason, there is a cop sitting there usually three out of the 5 working days with his laser gun. In that 10 years I have been pulled over for a "licence check" 63 times whilst riding my bike, 0 times whilst driving the car, and I drive the car more than I ride the bike.
They don't need any more excuses, they do it anyway.

Jockney Rebel

29-03-2009, 09:45 PM

quote:Originally posted by EFE 1230

That's the "DANGER" of the laws, I work with 2 blokes that have HD's the shops they go to get work done are "outlaw" owned/run so technically under the laws they can be done for association even though they are 100% cleanskins.
..exactly my point good one mate

Bear

29-03-2009, 11:39 PM

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31

It wont make any difference as far as I am concerned, the blatant discrimination and harassment is already there. I have been in my day job for 10 yrs, on the route I generally take there is a spot just over the crest of a hill where the speed limit drops from 100 to 60 for no apparent reason, there is a cop sitting there usually three out of the 5 working days with his laser gun. In that 10 years I have been pulled over for a "licence check" 63 times whilst riding my bike, 0 times whilst driving the car, and I drive the car more than I ride the bike.
They don't need any more excuses, they do it anyway.

That's the danger as I see it - individual cops will have more power to book (ever had to deal with an anti-bike policeman?) and they will be able to act just on hearsay ie. your neighbour doesn't like your loudish bike so they call the police anon and say, "There's a guy in my street who rides a loud bike, has a patch on his jacket and always has biker mates over. I think he's part of a gang and they have gang meetings at his house".

That's all the cops will need to search and enter under these new laws.

I'm not bagging the Cops out over this, I just think there should be checks in place to stop an anti-social officer from acting emotionally instead of rationally.

Another thing to consider is that once these laws are in place, there's little chance of going back.

Anyone read Steve Price's article in todays (Sunday) Telegraph? Descriminate and inciteful!

Booster

30-03-2009, 07:44 AM

Arn't the Ulysses considered a bikie club in SA, when it gets to that its just stupidity and anyone can be targetted
never much sense in kneejerk laws rushed through without proper consideration.

Chris41

30-03-2009, 08:05 AM

quote:Joe public doesnt have a clue of the difference between "Bikers" and "Bikies" and they really dont care
This is so true one of my workers in a mill in Vic was trying to be a copper He could not tell the difference between a girl on a GN250 or a 1% er, anyone who rode a bike was a bikie he ended stationed down in South Melbourne somewhere, happy at the fact that bashing drunks was a sport down there.

The cops have the middle eastern crime gang task force the just need to expand it legislation is not needed we have laws they just need to be enforced.
Also organized crime rarely exists without police corruption and complicity, so the police can look to them selves to start with.

I don't have much respect for 1% clubs these days they have little to do with biking, but such legislation is unnecessary and is just governments grandstanding to cover the fact that they are ineffectual This seems the way of politics now make big statements then do fuck all.

chopaweeza

30-03-2009, 08:26 AM

Well , I work with a member of the Motorcycle Council of NSW . He's shown me that the Sth Aust laws aren't actually anti-bikie or anti motorcycle . They are very broad in their terms in fact and that means that if the local Footie club has a couple of criminal members and they cause a ruckus every so often then the local footie club can be outlawed . Same goes for any group.

Take the paid members of ASF for example. Most bikes here are not 100% ADR compliant , they site often has postings of people speeding or other anti-social behaviour and some members here have a criminal record of some kind . While the paid members for the most not involved in crime as a means of financial support neither are most members of the targetted outlaw clubs. Plus , we have the HOON factor against us too and thats another buzzword that sells newspapers . While we think that these things won;t affect us we have by our nature set ourselves of the block for the chop in the future .

ozkat

30-03-2009, 10:04 AM

I agree with what Chop says, it covers all organized clubs no matter who they are, wether it be bikes, cars, footy, chess or knitting. If the police suspect criminal or illegal activities within the said club they can enforce laws that make it illegal to be a member of that club. That includes by association. Ofcourse its aimed directly at the 1% clubs at the moment but how long will it take to affect other organizations in the broarder community? How long will it take to affect ASF?

scrotary

30-03-2009, 01:25 PM

in the admiralty jurisdiction, laws are only made to stop an incident happening twice, that is why you can be penalised for something that might happen, if your speeding you might have an accident and kill/injur someone, you haven't injured anyone but the state claims an injury instead, which is why the state is the complainant, this all comes down to liability/insurance. ownership is liability, who ever owns the roads has to have an insurance policy on those roads, the more injuries/deaths the higher the premium, the states claims ownership of all inside its borders, including people(commonly refered to as 'chattel of the state'). this is why these laws are being made, to reduce risk to state property...this all sounds like bullshit but four years ago when i started studying i laughed too.

DiscoDan

30-03-2009, 02:56 PM

Let's keep a balanced view here guys, we don't know enough about how the proposed laws will work to start jumping at shadows. The one thing that is clear is that the police will need to apply to the supreme court to have a club declared an illegal organisation before they can do anything. I think it's pretty unlikely they'll do that for a new loud exhausts, small indicators and 300 rwhp turbo monsters :)

http://www.smh.com.au/national/rees-concedes-bikie-laws-might-not-be-in-place-till-june-20090330-9ggr.html

In principle I'm massively against this kind of law but you can see how it comes about. Obviously the existing means for dealing with hardcore crims (as compared to us softcore types) aren't effective against tight gang structures and with all the hysterics in the papers they've got to do something to appease the masses. I'm hoping the bikie's money will get them some good QCs and they'll shred the laws as unconstitutional in the high court.

sharky

30-03-2009, 03:44 PM

quote:How long will it take to affect ASF?
Last time ASF was called a club it was shot down as we are not in the legal terms a club (president,committee,treasurer etc.
We are a group of independant people,with a common interest, on a forum so the laws they dream up cannot applied to us.

Nudie

30-03-2009, 06:46 PM

I'm all for stopping gang related criminal behaviour as much as the next person. But these laws have the potential to have a lot more effect than currently proposed.
Let's say these Outlaw Gangs are successfully shut down to the Govt's satisfaction (which would include confiscating all of their property for resale to add to said Govt's coffers). Around the office Mr Fat Overpaid-Uselesscunt decides "Wow, that worked well. How about we target some other life threatening group of dangerous curs!" He throws a dart at the newspaper and it puntures a ripping yarn concerning a stretch of road that has been the scene of a higher than average incidence of motorcycle related speeding/noise complaints/accidents/fashion faux pars, or similar. Then motorcyclists of all persuasions will be outlaws.
This might sound a bit extreme, and I hope i'm wrong, but who knows?

Cruisecontrol

30-03-2009, 07:43 PM

This thread is starting to reek of paranoia...

If you ride above the speed limits it is breaking the law.
If you modify your bike and it doesn't meet ADR requirements, it breaking the law.

This is all stuff that we already know and if we a currently caught we will be dealt with as per the LAW.

They can target us now, so what difference does it make if they slap a label on it?
Will I get fined if my bike is legal but I associate with people who's bikes aren't? NO.

Fuck everyone that is dumb enough to continually associate with known criminals to the point that police believe that they are also involved.

Nudie

30-03-2009, 07:57 PM

You're not paranoid if they really are out to get you!:D[B)]

30-03-2009, 08:40 PM

I feel safe, as I have no friends and don't deal with people

EFE 1230

30-03-2009, 08:40 PM

If you are involved with known criminals you take your chances, the problem is when the govt decides who is a criminal regardless of any evidence.
These laws are aimed at a specific group but can be applied to "Joe Public" as well.

Look at the "Hoon Laws" enacted around the country, has it stopped dropkick drivers killing themselves?

No, but they have impacted on many modified car owners by restricting lawful use of their vehicles due to police harassment.

Have "Little Johnny Howard's" gun laws after Pt Aurthur stopped gun crime?

No, because only lawful gun owner's participated in the buy back not criminal's.

The "paranoia" is justified because if the govt is allowed to pass knee jerk laws every time there is a "problem" in society then eventually the only solution (in govt eyes) will be the total control of every aspect of peoples lives.

If the police can't use the current laws to stop criminal activity then they have a problem that new laws won't fix, the criminals might stop being "bikies" but they won't stop being criminals so what purpose do the new laws serve?

Large

30-03-2009, 08:50 PM

quote:Originally posted by EFE 1230

If you are involved with known criminals you take your chances, the problem is when the govt decides who is a criminal regardless of any evidence.
These laws are aimed at a specific group but can be applied to "Joe Public" as well.

Look at the "Hoon Laws" enacted around the country, has it stopped dropkick drivers killing themselves?

No, but they have impacted on many modified car owners by restricting lawful use of their vehicles due to police harassment.

Have "Little Johnny Howard's" gun laws after Pt Aurthur stopped gun crime?

No, because only lawful gun owner's participated in the buy back not criminal's.

The "paranoia" is justified because if the govt is allowed to pass knee jerk laws every time there is a "problem" in society then eventually the only solution (in govt eyes) will be the total control of every aspect of peoples lives.

If the police can't use the current laws to stop criminal activity then they have a problem that new laws won't fix, the criminals might stop being "bikies" but they won't stop being criminals so what purpose do the new laws serve?

Hear hear.

We've already got laws against murder and drug manufacture/smuggling and affray and intimidation that will get you hard labour(and if you put "in Company" in front of the charge you get another 5 years).

We don't need new laws that are designed to appeal to the morons that ring talkback hosts and beat off on air.

Fuck this state is already fucking hard as mate. We send Judges to jail for lying over 77$ :D

KRASH

30-03-2009, 09:02 PM

I heard on the radio this arvo that Qld is rushing simalar laws in so Qld isn't seen as a "SAFE HAVEN" for outlaw gangs...

DiscoDan

30-03-2009, 09:08 PM

quote:Originally posted by KRASH

I heard on the radio this arvo that Qld is rushing simalar laws in so Qld isn't seen as a "SAFE HAVEN" for outlaw gangs...

What a narrow field of view these guys have. Don't they realise what an opportunity this is, this could bring more money into the QLD economy than 100 indy-car races and give it a real point of differentiation. We're all a bit tired of the 'perfect beach' crap

ozkat

30-03-2009, 10:22 PM

quote:Originally posted by sharky

quote:How long will it take to affect ASF?
We are a group of independant people,with a common interest, on a forum so the laws they dream up cannot applied to us.
Maybe i can borrow your rose coloured glasses on the weekend.

Tony OW31

30-03-2009, 11:09 PM

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

This thread is starting to reek of paranoia...

If you ride above the speed limits it is breaking the law.
If you modify your bike and it doesn't meet ADR requirements, it breaking the law.

This is all stuff that we already know and if we a currently caught we will be dealt with as per the LAW.

They can target us now, so what difference does it make if they slap a label on it?
Will I get fined if my bike is legal but I associate with people who's bikes aren't? NO.

Fuck everyone that is dumb enough to continually associate with known criminals to the point that police believe that they are also involved.

Of course the police will invent things to fine you for, and if you don't believe that then you aint living in the real world.
In my business I deal with (legitimately) people who I know are involved in criminal activity, and the work I do for them has nothing whatsoever to do with that criminal activity, so are you saying is I am dumb because I don't turn away their perfectly legal and legitimate work?

sharky

31-03-2009, 05:46 AM

quote:Maybe i can borrow your rose coloured glasses on the weekend.
When's that Oz...when you put ya bike on the dyno ;)

What I meant is these laws are being touted as 'club' laws...They have to declare the club an illegal organisation in the courts before the police can act. As we are not a 'club'..

Fish

31-03-2009, 08:14 AM

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

This thread is starting to reek of paranoia...

If you ride above the speed limits it is breaking the law.
If you modify your bike and it doesn't meet ADR requirements, it breaking the law.

This is all stuff that we already know and if we a currently caught we will be dealt with as per the LAW.

They can target us now, so what difference does it make if they slap a label on it?
Will I get fined if my bike is legal but I associate with people who's bikes aren't? NO.

Fuck everyone that is dumb enough to continually associate with known criminals to the point that police believe that they are also involved.

Of course the police will invent things to fine you for, and if you don't believe that then you aint living in the real world.
In my business I deal with (legitimately) people who I know are involved in criminal activity, and the work I do for them has nothing whatsoever to do with that criminal activity, so are you saying is I am dumb because I don't turn away their perfectly legal and legitimate work?

What about the crims who are very good at keeping their activities quiet? I had a friend who i had no idea was a drug runner until I got a call from another mate saying he just got nicked for selling to an under cover copper and is now serving. Turns out he'd been selling to this copper for 5 odd years. So because i knew this bloke am i now guilty of running drugs too?

Cruisecontrol

31-03-2009, 08:53 AM

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31

Of course the police will invent things to fine you for, and if you don't believe that then you aint living in the real world.
In my business I deal with (legitimately) people who I know are involved in criminal activity, and the work I do for them has nothing whatsoever to do with that criminal activity, so are you saying is I am dumb because I don't turn away their perfectly legal and legitimate work?

Are they paying you with perfectly illegal and illegitimate money?

Cruisecontrol

31-03-2009, 08:59 AM

quote:Originally posted by EFE 1230

If you are involved with known criminals you take your chances, the problem is when the govt decides who is a criminal regardless of any evidence.
These laws are aimed at a specific group but can be applied to "Joe Public" as well.

Look at the "Hoon Laws" enacted around the country, has it stopped dropkick drivers killing themselves?

No, but they have impacted on many modified car owners by restricting lawful use of their vehicles due to police harassment.

Have "Little Johnny Howard's" gun laws after Pt Aurthur stopped gun crime?

No, because only lawful gun owner's participated in the buy back not criminal's.

The "paranoia" is justified because if the govt is allowed to pass knee jerk laws every time there is a "problem" in society then eventually the only solution (in govt eyes) will be the total control of every aspect of peoples lives.

If the police can't use the current laws to stop criminal activity then they have a problem that new laws won't fix, the criminals might stop being "bikies" but they won't stop being criminals so what purpose do the new laws serve?

Again, modified car owners know their cars are less than legal as did the participants of gun buy back schemes know that their guns were not legal.

What I want to know is how do these new laws affect anyone that does nothing more than break a few speed limits and flout the ADR's?

Buggzz

31-03-2009, 09:14 AM

quote:Originally posted by sharky

quote:Maybe i can borrow your rose coloured glasses on the weekend.
When's that Oz...when you put ya bike on the dyno ;)

What I meant is these laws are being touted as 'club' laws...They have to declare the club an illegal organisation in the courts before the police can act. As we are not a 'club'..

It's got nothing to do with clubs, but whatever the courts can deem an illegal organisation.

That organisation could end up being any loose association of people, as long as the police have the time to knit then all together.

FFS Al Queda is the number one terroist organisation in the world according to the US of A, and to date some experts don't even think that they really exist officially.

So the Authorities stuck a label on them made them official, this is what civil libertarians are really concerned about with these laws.

Don't worry about you bikes and whether ASF will be doomed, it's not about that it's just another step towards dictatorship and further control of the masses.

Just cast your minds back to the last time gutter journalism like a current affair stirred the masses into thinking some alternative lifestyle or religious group were painted up as evil. Now think about how much governments of today use the media to continually bombard us with propaganda and how easy it will be to crush any group of people out of existance with these laws if they disagree with the state.

Five years is a long time to be put away for little more than non conformance, communist Russia is here on our doorsteps....

Next you will tell me that you think internet censoreship is about pornography....

Tony OW31

31-03-2009, 10:00 AM

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31

Of course the police will invent things to fine you for, and if you don't believe that then you aint living in the real world.
In my business I deal with (legitimately) people who I know are involved in criminal activity, and the work I do for them has nothing whatsoever to do with that criminal activity, so are you saying is I am dumb because I don't turn away their perfectly legal and legitimate work?

Are they paying you with perfectly illegal and illegitimate money?

I wouldn't know?

Cruisecontrol

31-03-2009, 10:10 AM

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31

Of course the police will invent things to fine you for, and if you don't believe that then you aint living in the real world.
In my business I deal with (legitimately) people who I know are involved in criminal activity, and the work I do for them has nothing whatsoever to do with that criminal activity, so are you saying is I am dumb because I don't turn away their perfectly legal and legitimate work?

Are they paying you with perfectly illegal and illegitimate money?

I wouldn't know?

So for arguments sake lets say that you are in the middle of doing big work for these people and they get busted doing whatever it is they do. Next thing you know the feds show up and take everything that you have been working on for these people and claim it is all proceeds of crime.
You now have nothing to show for all of your work and are now owed a lot of money that you will never see.
Are you pissed off at them or the cops?

Fish

31-03-2009, 10:13 AM

So just out of curiosity, who here has been charged falsly by a member of the constabulary? I know i have, had a copper stand on the side of the road arguing with me for 10 mins about what speed i was doing. Started out with 140 in a 100 zone and came down to 112 when i was actually doing 100. So don't think for one single second that there aren't coppers out there who will abuse it and trump up your charges just cause they don't like the look of you.

Tony OW31

31-03-2009, 10:17 AM

quote:Originally posted by Bitchfish

So just out of curiosity, who here has been charged falsly by a member of the constabulary? I know i have, had a copper stand on the side of the road arguing with me for 10 mins about what speed i was doing. Started out with 140 in a 100 zone and came down to 112 when i was actually doing 100. So don't think for one single second that there aren't coppers out there who will abuse it and trump up your charges just cause they don't like the look of you.

Yup, three times since I have been in Aus (13yrs)

Tony OW31

31-03-2009, 10:25 AM

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31

Of course the police will invent things to fine you for, and if you don't believe that then you aint living in the real world.
In my business I deal with (legitimately) people who I know are involved in criminal activity, and the work I do for them has nothing whatsoever to do with that criminal activity, so are you saying is I am dumb because I don't turn away their perfectly legal and legitimate work?

Are they paying you with perfectly illegal and illegitimate money?

I wouldn't know?

So for arguments sake lets say that you are in the middle of doing big work for these people and they get busted doing whatever it is they do. Next thing you know the feds show up and take everything that you have been working on for these people and claim it is all proceeds of crime.
You now have nothing to show for all of your work and are now owed a lot of money that you will never see.
Are you pissed off at them or the cops?

How far do you want to take it, if a criminal organisation chooses say Telstra for their phone and internet services, uses those services to facilitate their crimes, do you charge the salesman who sold that service with aiding and abetting a crime, and living of the proceeds of crime due to the commission they received, or take it up the ladder and charge the CEO, surely he knows criminals are using his service.
In the real world that I live in, just because someone engages in criminal activities does not mean that everything they do is criminal, nor does it mean that everyone they associate with is a criminal as well.

Cruisecontrol

31-03-2009, 10:35 AM

gixkat

31-03-2009, 12:07 PM

You just dont get it Cruise, there are laws already that cover everything illegal that these guys do, If you cant see this for the knee jerk reaction it is to appease Joe public and assure them the government is on the case, then you my friend are blind and should be called freddy.
I dont know if you have travelled this big planet we live on, but let me assure you there are plenty of countries through the ages that have had a population that sat back and thought "It's ok the government is doing this for our sake", So I will state once more and i am by no means a civil libertarian in any shape or form.
It is the thin edge of the wedge mate, so fuck it call me paranoid but it's standing up and saying it like it is that made our country what it is today, fucked if i will be led like a bloody sheep by those in power, we see that enough in the the middle east, and look how them cunts turned out.
phew! rant over, not that anything ive said will ever change your mind coz you like to be the differing opinion right or wrong huh?

Razorback

31-03-2009, 12:29 PM

quote:Originally posted by ozkat

quote:Originally posted by bladehunter

IF they target only HOG members I'm all for it
That is one of the most stupid things ive ever seen said on a forum.

You dont read many forums do you ? :D

For mine I am just dissapointed that the bikies forgot the oldest rule in the book... publicity is bad... I mean dont they watch the fucken sopranos... if you make the front page, you have already lost.

This is what happens when the noobies forget the basics...

Oh well they only have themselves to blame. As long as things like ASF dont get caught up in the BS (which no doubt we will if cops arresting Ulyses members is anything to go by) then fuck em, they knew the risks when they put on the colours.

Bear

31-03-2009, 12:47 PM

The issue for me is that these new laws will give more power to the police to investigate/search without a permit or court order and they can act just on heresay ie. a nasty bike hating neighbour.

You may think that if you haven't done anything wrong then you'll be ok but don't forget that this is a potential violation or alteration of your rights as a citizen. Innocent before proven guilty?
Not to mention that they could search your house at any time and they don't put things back in a search. Not like the cleaning lady.
Ever been burgled? That's what it's like except that you're there to witness it and can't interfere. They may take stuff as evidence too.

You don't have to be out riding and pulled over. You can have a perfectly legal bike sitting in the shed dead cold and that's all they'll need.

Let's say that you accidentally pissed someone off over a bike sale or whatever. This person could act out some revenge by fabricating a story about you being an associated outlaw biker then inform the police annonymously over the phone as a tip-off. That's all the police will need to raid your home and then start keeping tabs on you. It's at their discretion and that there is the issue for me.

Laws can be good for policing the criminal element but moral and civilian rights of the innocent have to also be considered before the law is passed. We're the only one's who'll stick up for ourselves in that regard.

Gotta make a stand somewhere or else the boundaries keep creeping in. It's worth discussing in a rational way even if it's just for awareness.

Buggzz

31-03-2009, 01:00 PM

Bear has made a valid point,especially when it comes to share house situations and raids.
SOmeone you or your son or daughter is sharing a house with happens to be an associate of an illegal group or person and you will automatically end up in the system.

This already happens of course, only now the implications are more serious.

sharky

31-03-2009, 04:22 PM

quote:It's worth discussing in a rational way even if it's just for awareness.
On this forum...you'll be lucky;)

Jockney Rebel

31-03-2009, 04:28 PM

it all boils down to the fact that the state is our servant not the other way round ,and as we live in a democracy, apparently,the majority decides the way in which we live
..as motorcyclists we are a MINORITY and as such dont present a threat, vote wise and are unorganised so this is why we have trouble getting anything changed .
i will repeat what i said before the criminal element within these gangs ar the real problem but due to incompetance or laziness the police seem unable to catch them so blanket laws have been introduced to help them ,it just depends on how much you trust the police at any level to dispense these effectivly and fairly
i dont hate police officers and i do believe that at grass roots level most of them are as fair as the system allows them to be ..but like any other section of society theres discrimination,jealousy ,and bigotry ..after all police officers are human beings and as such are subject to the same emotions as the rest of us
example your average cop gets woken up at say 2am by some hoon on a thumpster gets no kip and has to start a 12 hour shift ..you dont think hes gonna stamp on the first kid he sees ? riding one ? he has the same conditioning to stereotypes as the rest of us! of course he will ... ..so yeah we will get caned because of our lifestyle choices

but thats not the main problem its the people who are above him who dont live inthe real world and think along the same lines as the miserable old git in your street ..[we all know one]..theyre the real threat to our freedom of choice

Razorback

31-03-2009, 04:41 PM

Id bet my ass there are pretty senior long service police officers who are members of Ulyses.... be interesting to hear their thoughts.

EFE 1230

31-03-2009, 04:55 PM

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

Again, modified car owners know their cars are less than legal as did the participants of gun buy back schemes know that their guns were not legal.

What I want to know is how do these new laws affect anyone that does nothing more than break a few speed limits and flout the ADR's?

It's the fact they will pass them when current laws cover the criminal activity they are trying to stop, they may never affect you but then flouting adr's and speeding don't make you a hardcore criminal do they?...........yet!

I know people that drive LEGALLY modified cars that have been constantly harassed under hoon laws to the point they won't drive them anymore.

What do you think will happen if "Hoon laws" do not stop idiot behavior and deaths on our roads?

A little pen pushing paper shuffler will come up with the idea that because a percentage of vehicles involved in the overall statistics are modified then all modified vehicles need to be banned to stop hoon behavior. And because a percentage of vehicles were speeding then all vehicles need to be limited to a max of 100kph.

A big media beat up, some irate talk back radio callers, some attention seeking grandstanding pollies and BAM! new laws that prohibit modifying ANY vehicle beyond manufactures specification (regardless of age) and if you get caught breaking the new laws instant loss of vehicle.
Get caught driving without your new limiter (which you pay for to be allowed to drive vehicle on road) or above 100kph instant loss of vehicle

Don't think they could do it????

I never thought banning "bikie" gangs would stop criminal activity but it must work because THEY tell me it will!

Fish

31-03-2009, 05:51 PM

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

Although I don't make a point of arguing with the officer on the side of the road.

So Cruise, what you are trying to tell me is that if it were you being pulled up for something you knew you weren't guilty of, that you'd take it on the chin, hand over your licence right there, pay for the tow truck to cart you vehicle off to impound, lose your job and also pay the huge fine? is that right? I don't think so mate. My point wasn't that i'm some kind of hero cause i dared to argue with a copper. But rather that there are plenty of them out there who have zero moral delema about charging you for something you didn't do cause they have some random thing against you. So open your eyes and welcome to reality mate, the "If you didn't do anything than you have nothing to fear" line is a load of shite.

papa smurf

31-03-2009, 05:54 PM

There are some very valid arguments on here so far on both sides of the story.

Picture this situation.
I am a member of a legitimate sporting organisation ie the Drgabike Riders Association of Australia.
As it happens one of the comittee members for this association, as well as being an accomplished & well respected Drag Racer, just happens to be the Brisbane President of an Outlaw Club.

As such, he allows us to hold our meetings at their club house meaning that on occasion we also associate with other "bikies" (& so far i haven't met one that i wouldn't have a beer with.)

What will these new laws, if they ever get in, mean to us?
Remember also that these al powerful laws have been in place in South Australia for 9 months odd now but so far NOT ONE club has been banned or disbanded.
Are we getting all carried away with, if it does happen, just another toothless tiger?

Considering, as has already been stated numerous times, we already have more than enough laws to cover the alleged criminal activity, is it just another media/government beat up just to appease Joe Public?
I am currently thinking that it is & as much as i dislike do-gooders & civil libitarians, they will make it very hard for the powers that be to do what they want to do.

scrotary

31-03-2009, 07:28 PM

just thought i'd add some fuel to the fire, ever wonder why a police officer's word is taken as truth even if there is no evidence before the court, a policeman is an officer of the crown, officers are gentlemen and gentlemen don't lie. states are corporations as is the commonwealth, the ONLY way corporations can intereact with sentient human beings is through contract, the authority the government has over us WE gave them through contract. confiscate means "take without clear lawful authority", if you've ever had something confiscated the officer always has to ask you 'do you understand', saying yes is giving consent(understand, stand under). for the government to force us into anything is rape(unconsented use of force) and genocide(removing standing to an unrecoverable position). everything the government does to us we consent to, sometimes through tacit agreement, how can something we create have power over us? how, is the interesting thing, and sometimes unbeleviable.

Jockney Rebel

31-03-2009, 09:28 PM

..also a little known fact for you indigenous australians [and by that i mean anyone born on australian soil]
1] the governor of the australian commonwealth is the representative of Q.E.2..and therfore is here to dole out judicial powers to each and every judge in the country via a letter of authority from said monarch
2] the last 3 governors have had no such letter [they forgot or just didnt think it neccesary ..]double standards right there
3] as an indigenous australian you have the right to see the letter or a certified copy of such before you are tried by any judge sitting in any court in any part of the commonwealth of great britian
4]technically speaking austraila [as far as international law is concerned ]is a country under occupation of a foreign power,[ it dosent matter whether its friendly or otherwise ]dont think so ? the ultimate control of Austrailas armed forces lies with the commander in cheif of said forces ,who is .........H.M.Queen Elizabeth 2
5]So technically speaking no judge inthe land has any power over any austrailan born on australian soil..because the governor hasnt delegated power to the high court and as such none of there officers have any such right either ..
and last but not least..
the present governor wasnt even appointed by the Queen she was appointed by John Howard ..interestingly she has just requested all the confidential files from all the armed forces be copied and sent to her.

paraniod about misuse of power? your damn f right i am...

DiscoDan

31-03-2009, 09:53 PM

quote:Originally posted by Bitchfish

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

Although I don't make a point of arguing with the officer on the side of the road.

So Cruise, what you are trying to tell me is that if it were you being pulled up for something you knew you weren't guilty of, that you'd take it on the chin, hand over your licence right there, pay for the tow truck to cart you vehicle off to impound, lose your job and also pay the huge fine? is that right? I don't think so mate. My point wasn't that i'm some kind of hero cause i dared to argue with a copper. But rather that there are plenty of them out there who have zero moral delema about charging you for something you didn't do cause they have some random thing against you. So open your eyes and welcome to reality mate, the "If you didn't do anything than you have nothing to fear" line is a load of shite.

No, I don't think that's what he's saying. Key phrase is "on the side of the road", you'll never beat the prick on the roadside if he's keen to screw you over and the more you argue the keener he'll get. That's one battle that might be best had in court where you can get a fair(er) hearing

Cruisecontrol

31-03-2009, 10:14 PM

quote:Originally posted by gixkat

You just dont get it Cruise, there are laws already that cover everything illegal that these guys do, If you cant see this for the knee jerk reaction it is to appease Joe public and assure them the government is on the case, then you my friend are blind and should be called freddy.
I dont know if you have travelled this big planet we live on, but let me assure you there are plenty of countries through the ages that have had a population that sat back and thought "It's ok the government is doing this for our sake", So I will state once more and i am by no means a civil libertarian in any shape or form.
It is the thin edge of the wedge mate, so fuck it call me paranoid but it's standing up and saying it like it is that made our country what it is today, fucked if i will be led like a bloody sheep by those in power, we see that enough in the the middle east, and look how them cunts turned out.
phew! rant over, not that anything ive said will ever change your mind coz you like to be the differing opinion right or wrong huh?

You are currently being the sheep you so desperately don't want to be.
I get it perfectly well although it appears that you are the one with only a basic concept of what has been suggested and jumped straight onto your soapbox to tell me how wrong I am.
I am surprised that you didn't go as far as mentioning Nazis because surely by your rationale that is the next logical step for this power crazy fascist regime under which we currently live...
It has been mentioned more than once in this thread that these laws are in effect in S.A and have created exactly zero impact. Yes, they are knee-jerk reactions, but to consider that it is all part of some major plan to rule the country with an iron fist is as I said, PARANOIA.

quote:Originally posted by Bitchfish

So Cruise, what you are trying to tell me is that if it were you being pulled up for something you knew you weren't guilty of, that you'd take it on the chin, hand over your licence right there, pay for the tow truck to cart you vehicle off to impound, lose your job and also pay the huge fine? is that right? I don't think so mate. My point wasn't that i'm some kind of hero cause i dared to argue with a copper. But rather that there are plenty of them out there who have zero moral delema about charging you for something you didn't do cause they have some random thing against you. So open your eyes and welcome to reality mate, the "If you didn't do anything than you have nothing to fear" line is a load of shite.

There is a time and a place for everything.
I will guarantee that arguing with a copper on the side of the road will not help your cause, as they will just fuck you over even harder. There is a good reason as to why there is an appeal process.

I live in the real world. One where I have done nothing wrong and therefore have nothing to worry about. Yes, I have met my share of arsehole cops, my favourite was getting pulled over on my bike to be met with "I am not sure what the law is, but I don't think you should be going that fast on your L's (NSW copper & me from ACT) but I just smiled politely and replied with the yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir, and he left it at that. If I wanted to be a smartarse he could have nailed me for a million different things but he didn't.

Jockney Rebel

31-03-2009, 10:23 PM

^agreed dan and ive met good and bad here too but the bad ones worry the crap out of me
ie getting my bike photographed for no apparent reason in a servo ? whats all that about?ok so nothing happened but i put that down to the fact that we didnt go where he expected us to go ..

gixkat

01-04-2009, 09:59 AM

Cruisecontrol wrote
quote:You are currently being the sheep you so desperately don't want to be.
I get it perfectly well although it appears that you are the one with only a basic concept of what has been suggested and jumped straight onto your soapbox to tell me how wrong I am.
I am surprised that you didn't go as far as mentioning Nazis because surely by your rationale that is the next logical step for this power crazy fascist regime under which we currently live...
It has been mentioned more than once in this thread that these laws are in effect in S.A and have created exactly zero impact. Yes, they are knee-jerk reactions, but to consider that it is all part of some major plan to rule the country with an iron fist is as I said, PARANOIA.

Yes you are right Dan, I'm sorry I should never have questioned your wisdom in such matters.
PS: and before you tell me, yes I know that "sarcasm is the lowest form of wit";)

scrotary

01-04-2009, 06:54 PM

you got it jockney, i'll add one more point to your facts, the courts in this country are not australian, they are 'dry docked vessels' for them to practice admiralty law on land is 'land piracy' and treason, ever notice how the courtroom looks exactly like a ship?, all courts are under the jurisdiction of puerta rico,(translated 'port of racqueteering) they do not fly the australian flag inside them because they are not australian, we consent to there jurisdiction when we walk onboard there vessel(ship), there the admiral rules and if he say's the colour black is white, then it is. argueing is contempt of court, pleading 'not guilty'(no knowledge) is contempt of court, courts have the same win loss percentages as casino's. 86%-14%, the reason they are puerto rican jurisdiction is because thats where our birth certificates are held, thats why they have absolute power over us, they own us through our birth(berth) certificates...

Cruisecontrol

01-04-2009, 08:25 PM

quote:Originally posted by Jockney Rebel

^agreed dan and ive met good and bad here too but the bad ones worry the crap out of me
ie getting my bike photographed for no apparent reason in a servo ? whats all that about?

And there I was putting my jacket over the tail of my bike to obscure my number plate.

Dunno what he was up to but with the amount of cameras around these days I am sure they could track someone just about anywhere...

sharky

01-04-2009, 09:12 PM

quote:Dunno what he was up to but with the amount of cameras around these days I am sure they could track someone just about anywhere...
And you reckon we're paranoid ??

Cruisecontrol

01-04-2009, 09:24 PM

Sigh...

Nudie

02-04-2009, 05:55 PM

hehe (oh damn, where's that popcorn smilie?)

gixkat

02-04-2009, 06:14 PM

Too late Nudie i think it's run it's course;)

scrotary

07-04-2009, 09:06 AM

some interesting info guy's, i was pulled over for breath testing on my home from the afr, i produced my license, which i have modified to certify it(in accordance with internationial law, and universal postal union law). the officer removed the certification stamp(defacing international i.d.) and asked me if i was the person underneath, i replied that i was not a capital letter corporation and that i had a treaty with his government and was protected by state witness protection, he refused to look at it, i instructed him to contact the federal police or interpol as they were breifed on this technology, he refused, he said that unless i admitted that i was the capital letter person on the license, with the listed address i would be arrested,(giving someone your name is surrendering all rights to them, giving someone an address is admiting you are 'chattel' of the state), i refused, i was then arrested/kidnapped by the officer taken to casino station to be processed, i used my phone call to contact my barrister who in turn contacted the federal police, i beleive they rang the station and i was released without being processed and with no charge. police have nothing on there side but brute force...

fimpBIKES

07-04-2009, 12:57 PM

wha??????

BOHEMION

07-04-2009, 02:03 PM

quote:Originally posted by Bitchfish

What about the crims who are very good at keeping their activities quiet? I had a friend who i had no idea was a drug runner until I got a call from another mate saying he just got nicked for selling to an under cover copper and is now serving. Turns out he'd been selling to this copper for 5 odd years. So because i knew this bloke am i now guilty of running drugs too?

No mate.. if its been 5 odd years, You most likely have been flagged at least once in that time if you visited his house (many times) or he visited yours, So they would have sussed you out already, with your name on a stakeholders list, when he was nicked all he could have done was mention your name and they would have been at your home for a looksee. Tac crime and drugs are very good at what they do, so i doubt you have anything to worry about.