190+ HP from a zx12r?

[zx12argh]

I've been looking around at ways to get a bit more go out of the 12 without going down the path of forced induction.

I've heard two conflicting reports on the best and most cost effective way of getting a few more herbies. Does anyone know first hand or can point me in the dirction of more info?

Option 1 - 1270/1287cc Kit - bigger bore - stock cams advanced - thinner gasket to bump compression PC3 full exhaust setup and dyno time.

Option 2 - Stock bore - mild head work & new cams - thinner gasket - pc3 - full exhaust + dyno.

Option 3 - Both :D - but I can't afford it with the other work going on and I'm not looking to turn it into a track only weapon.

Option 4 - NOS as per the zx12 in Rapid last month

[latheboy]

I like option 3 and 4
Should have said .... Option 3 - Both - I can afford it with the other work going on and I'm looking to turn it into a Street weapon.

[Lucas]

get a little wizzer bolt on

[zx12argh]

Why would I want one of these?
http://www.dumb-inventions.com/drinking-smoking/little-wizzer-liquor-dispenser/

Not a fan of NOS outside of a drag application. This is going to be a street bike and I want it to pass at least a casual inspection by the plod - if not full scrutiny. I'm trying to build something that is trick but at the same time legal.

I wish I could afford both but I'm trying to keep the engine works below 2.5-3k with as much work done myself as possible.

[latheboy]

Pete ... if you are going to do the big bore you've got to do the head work while your at it ... will save you $$$$ .. You could give the head a port/pollish and CC at home while the block is getting done.

[Lucas]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

Why would I want one of these?
http://www.dumb-inventions.com/drinking-smoking/little-wizzer-liquor-dispenser/

Not a fan of NOS outside of a drag application. This is going to be a street bike and I want it to pass at least a casual inspection by the plod - if not full scrutiny. I'm trying to build something that is trick but at the same time legal.

I wish I could afford both but I'm trying to keep the engine works below 2.5-3k with as much work done myself as possible.



:D:D:D

Good find. Atleast you'dstand out with that thing;)

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by latheboy

Pete ... if you are going to do the big bore you've got to do the head work while your at it ... will save you $$$$ .. You could give the head a port/pollish and CC at home while the block is getting done.


See this is another area where I hear conflicting info... If you talking about a basic polish of the inlet runners yeah I'm confident to give that a crack myself - if i could get my hands on a good reference. Its not something I've done before but would be good to learn.

[Issues]

have you looked at extrusion honing for the ports and runners?

[zx12argh]

I'm not sold on the idea of port and polish - like I said I've read and researched here and there on the internet and you can't believe everything you hear. Apparently the 12r already has a generous port size and only really respond to polishing of the exhaust ports - but not widening.

[EXBEN]

http://www.muzzys.com/ZX1317/index.html
This would do it.

[Large]

or 1375cc using a bored stock block

http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=2345228&showprevnext=1

[zx12argh]

Yeah i've been looking at these kits - i'm trying to get around buying direct from the states - I'm thinking postage costs will be pretty high and I've lined up a good contact to do my machining (hopefully) cheaper then buying it as a kit.

Comparatively tho do you guys reckon they are good value for money?


quote:Originally posted by Large

or 1375cc using a bored stock block

http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=2345228&showprevnext=1


large that link doesn't work for me mate...

[Tony Nitrous]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

Not a fan of NOS outside of a drag application. This is going to be a street bike.


NOS is perfect for a streetbike.
I was looking at a kit today.

Your motor is very rarely making its full 140/150/160 ponies,
so why not run it stock 99% of the time and use the
"Throttle-in-a-bottle" for those special momments. 99% of the
time the motor is not wearing out expensive components and drinking
fuel as it pop's and bangs along in "Race-mode" its trundling
about like a stocker, Dial your own horsepower with jets to suit pistons /
clutch etc, and whooooosh-we-gone when its needed..[8D]

Having said that, I think I can hide a 2lb bottle under the Busa
seat hump but there's F#ck-all chance of a hidden kit on the B-King.

(I still want a Turbo though...;))

[zx12argh]

You have a point there - How stealth are the installs - where abouts do they plumb in?

[Large]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

Yeah i've been looking at these kits - i'm trying to get around buying direct from the states - I'm thinking postage costs will be pretty high and I've lined up a good contact to do my machining (hopefully) cheaper then buying it as a kit.

Comparatively tho do you guys reckon they are good value for money?


quote:Originally posted by Large

or 1375cc using a bored stock block

http://secure.mycart.net/catalogs/catalog.asp?prodid=2345228&showprevnext=1


large that link doesn't work for me mate...


maybe it's your compupupupupuputer?

How about-
http://www.muzzys.com/ZX1375/index.html

[Large]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

You have a point there - How stealth are the installs - where abouts do they plumb in?


Wet kits generally screw into the inlet ports

One of thesewould be virtually indectible as it's inside your airbox

http://www.muzzys.com/ZX-12_Dry_NITROUS/index.html

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

You have a point there - How stealth are the installs - where abouts do they plumb in?


Booah just runs his stock and just chucks the bottle in a backpack till he gets to the track. 5 minutes and away you go. You can get little 10 ounce bottles. I worked out I could get two side by side under the seat of the 14 then just wire up the horn button.

[Tony Nitrous]

quote:Originally posted by Bullfrog

[quote] You can get little 10 ounce bottles. I worked out I could get two side by side under the seat of the 14 then just wire up the horn button.


I ran a 2.5lb bottle, and that didn't last long !

[Large]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

Yeah i've been looking at these kits - i'm trying to get around buying direct from the states - I'm thinking postage costs will be pretty high and I've lined up a good contact to do my machining (hopefully) cheaper then buying it as a kit.

Comparatively tho do you guys reckon they are good value for money?




Why not buy from the US?
The aussie dollar is nearly at parity and the postage from reputable places shouldn't be bad. The block and pistons aren't big or heavy so I doubt that kit would cost more'n about a hunge to ship over.

Does your mate also have access to the nicasil (or whatever plating they use) process?

This kit is pretty cheap I reckon-

http://zxzone.com/pistons.html

[abusa]

I would only look at having the coating done in the states, whether its direct with Millenium or through the Kit Supplier. I know a few guys with big motors ridden on the street here in Queensland. Have to choose your combo wisely though as too much compression is a pain on the street, caming timing/selection can help. If you dont want to send your block over go for the Muzzy Big Bore awesome grunt looks factory from outside, more dollars of course. I like NOS but cant beat cubes for grunt on tap all the time, well except for a Turbo thats another storey.

[zx12argh]

By the looks of it a muzzy kit comes with pistions rings kit to suit and a bored and resleeved block. Wouldn't it be cheaper to source the pistons seperately and have the block bored and sleeved locally? US postage can be a killer and every dollar saved here is a month sooner getting the bike back on the road.

[Large]

Yeah

except the blocks aren't resleeved, they're bored then plated. Good luck trying to find someone who can do that in Aus

[zx12argh]

oh.
crap.
:(
Maybe I can get work to send me to the states...

[zx12argh]

http://www.electrosil.com.au/electrosil.htm
Do you mean something like this?


I've emailed them chasing a quote/estimate. With any luck I'll be able to get it done cheaper faster and safer rather then sending bores across the globe...

[Booster]

Good luck
Quote will be for ~$1100, millenium will cost ~$400 US + ~$100 postage each way.plus they will be sized to suit your pistons.
Some do changover cyls like APE , leave a core deposit when you buy the kit and send your cyls back for the deposit refund
http://zxzone.com/pistons.html

[zx12argh]

Is this who you mean?
http://www.mt-llc.com/StreetBikes/streetBikes.html
That kit is looking more and more competitive in price.

[Booster]

good info here too
http://www.suzukihayabusa.org/forum/index.php?topic=129966.0;all
Yeah thats them :)

[zx12argh]

Thanks mate - that sounds exactly what i am chasing. As long as US postage rates done kill me I should be sorted.

[abusa]

Postage rates shouldnt be too bad, would have to work out final weight but you probably get barrel Pistons etc over here for around $100, go Express Mail International®, reasonable turn around and price, there are other services cheaper but of course longer! The Muzzy Big Bore is an Aftermarket Barrel which is why its so much dearer. Probably better to go exchange barrel if you are on a tighter budget but maybe opt for the cams.

[zx12argh]

Email from APE
Hello Peter,


For $985.00 USD we will exchange your block for a bored, honed, re-plated, Nikasil, and ready to go block with pistons. You don't have to worry about anything other than gaskets. We also currently have one in stock and ready to ship out to you as soon as we get yours. Let me know if you have any other questions.


Thanks,
Dustin
A.P.E.

I think I may have just peed myself a little. I thought I had to do pistons on top of that... Hmmm I may get some cams as well while I am it it...

Thanks for your help guys!

[ozkat]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

Email from APE
Hello Peter,


For $985.00 USD we will exchange your block for a bored, honed, re-plated, Nikasil, and ready to go block with pistons. You don't have to worry about anything other than gaskets. We also currently have one in stock and ready to ship out to you as soon as we get yours. Let me know if you have any other questions.


Thanks,
Dustin
A.P.E.

I think I may have just peed myself a little. I thought I had to do pistons on top of that... Hmmm I may get some cams as well while I am it it...

Thanks for your help guys!

What CC does that give you Pete? Id say around $1200.00 AU delivered. Thats pretty bloody good.

[Large]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

Email from APE
Hello Peter,


For $985.00 USD we will exchange your block for a bored, honed, re-plated, Nikasil, and ready to go block with pistons. You don't have to worry about anything other than gaskets. We also currently have one in stock and ready to ship out to you as soon as we get yours. Let me know if you have any other questions.


Thanks,
Dustin
A.P.E.

I think I may have just peed myself a little. I thought I had to do pistons on top of that... Hmmm I may get some cams as well while I am it it...

Thanks for your help guys!



I thought you Indians had to speak and read English before they let you in the country

[zx12argh]

That gives 1287cc and with degree (stock) cams a mild head clean up and decent exhaust is good for 190-195hp depending where you read. Assuming you trust what you read on the internet ;)

I'm debating about cams vs dry shot NOS kit now. I still want regular rideability but with occasional oomph so I'm thinking the NOS is probably better way to go and from what Tony says you can hook them up pretty stealthily as well.

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by Large


quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

Email from APE
Hello Peter,


For $985.00 USD we will exchange your block for a bored, honed, re-plated, Nikasil, and ready to go block with pistons. You don't have to worry about anything other than gaskets. We also currently have one in stock and ready to ship out to you as soon as we get yours. Let me know if you have any other questions.


Thanks,
Dustin
A.P.E.

I think I may have just peed myself a little. I thought I had to do pistons on top of that... Hmmm I may get some cams as well while I am it it...

Thanks for your help guys!



I thought you Indians had to speak and read English before they let you in the country


I speak the english very good Raj.

Tho if persist in mantaining the rumour that I am a short indian tiger impersonator I may have to track you down and give you a good thonging.

[Large]

I'll post up my address....but you probably couldn't read it and your cousin would want $1000 to taxi you down here.

Have you checked out-

http://psychobike.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?s=5f2258a47dbc2a22d689a1653dd61f4d;a ct=SC;c=1

If that doesn't work, just google "psychobike"

They have a ZX12R forum with heaps of info on mods available.

[zx12argh]

Your just jealous of my beaded seat cusion.

I checked that site - its a laugh when busa-boys drop in and hang shit. Some people just don't know how to take a joke.

[puppet]

Do you use all of the power that it currently has?

[zx12argh]

not really when its sitting in pieces in my garage... On the street - yes sometimes when I am out in woop woop but mostly no.
But I want to break the 300kmph mark as a fighter and I figure I'll need all the power I can afford to do it.

hence I dont want to loose the street-abilty of the bike. not looking to build an unrideable monster.

[Fight_fan]

It sounds like its gonna be pretty sweet when its done pete! Speakin of monsters, did u see the latest RAPID? 340hp busa! HOLY SHIT! Thats is insane...

[Booster]

Bruces purple beast ??
waiting for my rapid ;)

[hooligan]

I'm not sure i wanna read a story about Bruce's Purple Beast...

[Booster]

apparently it left Jeff rather shaken ;)

[zx12argh]

my thread has been hijacked by stories about a purple headed warrior... please - no comments about how much thrust it has...

[hooligan]

Sorry mate.




What about comments about his power to weight ratio?

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by Fight_fan

It sounds like its gonna be pretty sweet when its done pete! Speakin of monsters, did u see the latest RAPID? 340hp busa! HOLY SHIT! Thats is insane...

I haven't even ordered the parts from the states yet - going to go talk to my mechanic today about some head work - just a (very) mild port and polish. 12r doesn't need much so i've heard.

I might have to get that issue... sounds like fun :D

[Fight_fan]

Oh its alot of fun! I bail outa work every time I realise new RAPID is out hey! "Just gota duck down the street!" HeHeHe!
Nah sorry about the jacking it just reminded me! I look forward to seein how u go with the 12 but!

[zx12argh]

Peter,



The cost to have the ZX12r block oversized and re-coated would be $1200. Our turnaround time for this type of block is 5 to 8 working days.



Cheers Electrosil Team

Well you weren't far off the mark Booster. For 1200 I can get the work done including the pistons and postage [edit] from A.P.E. in the states [edit]. Looks like this nails it for me.
I like to support Australian businesses but you still have to be competitive. If it was a matter of a couple hundred bucks I'd go Australian but this is $600 minimum out of the ball park. I'd hate to think that their CNC mills and other equipment are sitting around not being used 24/7 cause if they aren't then their pricing model is fucked in the head.

[Fight_fan]

SHWEEET! Thats sounds the goods mate! When r u bookin it in?

[zx12argh]

Woops - that was misleading - for 1200 including the postage and the pistons I have to go to the States - A.P.E. to get it. The Aussie guys aren't able/trying to match it.

I'll do it when I got the dollars ;) I'll be buying the US kit in a couple weeks but I still have to grab my mechanic off the race track to do me a quote. He's a hard guy to pin down some times. The engine work will probably be the first stage of the project.

[Fight_fan]

Ah no worries Pete! Keep us up to date hey...

[APE Dustin]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh

Email from APE
Hello Peter,


For $985.00 USD we will exchange your block for a bored, honed, re-plated, Nikasil, and ready to go block with pistons. You don't have to worry about anything other than gaskets. We also currently have one in stock and ready to ship out to you as soon as we get yours. Let me know if you have any other questions.


Thanks,
Dustin
A.P.E.

I think I may have just peed myself a little. I thought I had to do pistons on top of that... Hmmm I may get some cams as well while I am it it...

Thanks for your help guys!




Hey, I recognize that email! The ZX12 is a good motor to build up and have fun with. If you are still planning on going with the 1287 motor then I would suggest going with the cams instead of the NOS kit. True with a NOS kit you will have on the fly power, but you will have to make sure you have the bottle filled and the added weight of the system, its not much weight, but it is extra weight. With the cams you will get added power that you can use all the time and use the big bore that you just did to it's fullest.

Also I had my shipping guys work up a quote for shipping and it would be about $117.00 USD, but that is just a rough estimate.

P.S. I'm not trying to sell other parts, just putting my .02 cents out there.

[Booster]

Hey Dustin
While your looking in, .. I tried to contact via the Tech at ape link grom the gsxr page last week but had the email bounce , had some piston questions..

[APE Dustin]

send me an email directly, salesdustin@aperaceparts.com