Here's a Strange One

[Hagarr]

I have a bizarre problem and if anybody can give me some insight to what is going on would be appreciated.

Have converted my 1127 based engine to run on 2004 Gixxer thou Fuel Injection.

I have completed all the pick up & sensor points and have now got the engine to fire, ......but only on the starter.

As soon as I release the starter I lose spark to coil & engine dies, stops firing.

Its almost as if the power to the starter switch is reversed where the power is routed through the switch but the wrong way , if you get my description.

Also today I found out by accident that the clutch switch is also reversed as when the clutch lever is out the engine will crank but when you pull the lever in, the engine won't crank!

Opposite to what it should do!

I am running everything stock, 2004 wiring harness, switchgear and gauges, the only difference is alternator which is wired to suit the oiler type engine which has internal regulator unlike the 2004 type which is the normal type, external.

I'll keep checking but if anybody can come up with anything they may think I might be missing please let me know it would be appreciated.

[Redmohawk]

Kill switch shorted out ?

[Hagarr]

Kill switch operates as it should!

The other anomaly is, if I crank the engine over and don't touch throttle it keeps firing until I release the starter button, no error codes.

If I attempt to put any throttle on, turn throttle, the dash comes up with a CHEC code and fuel pump stops priming!

Turn ignition off for a couple of seconds and back on and fuel pump primes and CHEC goes away!

[hyofighter]

If it was a car id say the balast resistor . maybe it has something to do with that reg setup

[hyofighter]

Haha not a very good answer to many turkeys tonight

[Hagarr]

Haha not a very good answer to many turkeys tonight

HAHA Well done.

Yeah I thought of that and disconnected and tried again but still the same.

[hyofighter]

Accident tip over sensor thingo

[Redmohawk]

Throttle issue sounds like the TPS wiring is reversed, maybe. Did you use a compleat un cut loom ?

[Hagarr]

Accident tip over sensor thingo

No checked that one, thats a different error code!

But thanks!

[Hagarr]

Throttle issue sounds like the TPS wiring is reversed, maybe. Did you use a compleat un cut loom ?

Loom was out of a running bike and uncut, although it was a crashed bike????

Its taken a few years to get to this point so I might have forgotten a few things but I don't remember playing around with wiring on the TPS for the butterflies but I definitely cocked up the TPS and STCVA thingamy but have now rectified by borrowing a complete 2004 gixxer bike and checking each relevant piece that I need to.

[Yella]

can't help but when you find the fault make sure you let us know. Everything is working backwards?

[Hagarr]

can't help but when you find the fault make sure you let us know. Everything is working backwards?

Yeah it seems to be Yella!

As soon as I release starter it stops firing and which is backed up by when clutch is pulled in the engine won't crank but will when its out. (Reverse Polarity of Starter?)

I've obviously done something somewhere but fucked if I can remember, its been so long since I started the project so taking my time on thinking about it rather than start pulling things to bits and getting really messed up.

Thanks for the replies guys it does really help to sound off against others even if I have already checked what you have suggested!

[Redmohawk]

Maybe an earth on the loom thats not connected ? Hard to trace without a Loom schematic and no bike in front of me, if you have schematic I'd be chasing down how the clutch switch is wired IE does it drag down to earth when closed and if so what earth does it use. Using a multimeter/test light start chasing from the battery through the ignition to the starter relay. Also look for power (ignitor circuit) when first turned on before hitting starter . Does the efi run the spark as well or is it fuel only ?

[Hagarr]

Maybe an earth on the loom thats not connected ? Hard to trace without a Loom schematic and no bike in front of me, if you have schematic I'd be chasing down how the clutch switch is wired IE does it drag down to earth when closed and if so what earth does it use. Using a multimeter/test light start chasing from the battery through the ignition to the starter relay. Also look for power (ignitor circuit) when first turned on before hitting starter . Does the efi run the spark as well or is it fuel only ?

Cheers Red!

Yeah stranger things have happened but removed the feed I had to Alternator from off the Starter solenoid, it changed something but has now confused the hell outta me so its time for a wine or two and off with the Tank tomorrow which is no mean feat to check some previous mods.

Its just bizarre that the feed has reversed, you can be sure it will be something simple but as you know its finding that simple mistake!

No Red, the EFI seems OK its just the feed to coils which is switching off once you release starter, separate circuit.

The other issue I'm now getting is when I wired the STVA I could only get the C28 to go out if I reversed two wires of the four but I have now rewired back to how it should be given I have confirmed the wiring position off my donor bike I am working off for confirmation of connections etc, which points to a reverse feed again so I am going to leave it how it has and hopefully once I sort the polarity issue it will go away.

Well heres hoping!

Cheers for your advice!


HHHMMM maybe check the earths again as you mention.

I've got one from Battery to Engine (Big Fat One) but I don't recall earthing the B/W wire which runs through the loom!

[Richd]

I had all kinds of weird electrical shit go on with the SV some time ago. Would only run with the tank up, randomly throwing codes etc . Turned out to be earth issues. The bad earths created 'noise' that confused the ecu when it came to pick up signals so I was told. Also told by this bike specific sparky that Suzukis of that era, mine being '06, we're known for cutting corners on wiring looms earth wise. Check 'em.

[MattyDucati]

X2 on the earth, making circuit when starter engages?

[Hagarr]

X2 on the earth, making circuit when starter engages?

OK I'm goin' in!

[Gix11]

....and?

[MONO]

Without pics this thread will be deleted.

[Hagarr]

....and?

Si, Still setting up a remote tank to feed the fuel pump whilst tank is off so I can test as I go.

Still getting over Hernia operation which is slowing me a bit also.

[Hagarr]

Without pics this thread will be deleted.

Crikey you blokes are harsh :)

[Yella]

Crikey you blokes are harsh :)

still no pic's??

[Hagarr]

Won't crank at all now..........oh brother (sigh)

[Redmohawk]

First run a wire from postive straight to the starter positive, if it turns work backwards . Bridge out starter relay if it turns the motor , chase down why the relay isnt being energised with a test light. Think flow, electricity is just like water it flows to the path of least resistance if there isnt a full circuit from positive to neg it wont flow.

or your battery is flat lol

[Hagarr]

First run a wire from postive straight to the starter positive, if it turns work backwards . Bridge out starter relay if it turns the motor , chase down why the relay isnt being energised with a test light. Think flow, electricity is just like water it flows to the path of least resistance if there isnt a full circuit from positive to neg it wont flow.

or your battery is flat lol

Yeah Red bridged the starter for a sec and got some movement so it appears I've fixed the backfeed just need to find the reason now why I have lost the starter and I think I'm there!

[oldskool]

Gear position sensor?

[Hagarr]

Gear position sensor?

HHHMMM I removed the TRE and plugged back together maybe a pin has been pushed out.

Good thinking oldfool :) I'll give it a crack when I get home.

Maybe clutch switch also need to revisit!

[oldskool]

Sounds like the problem is in that area Hagard.

[oldskool]

Did you find the problem?

[Hagarr]

Did you find the problem?

Hey Oldy!

My dreaded C28 & 29 code has returned and I really don't understand why as I have even tried a donor (STP Servo & STP) unit but it still comes up and means the engine will not run!

As I have just had a hernia operation and the family were in Victoria high country riding horses, I sat down and looked at the comparing wiring diagrams for Busa and GSXR1000 to see what pins I could remove or move given apparently Busa & Gixxer are virtually identical.

The other option was to change the harness to a Busa harness, which I have, but really to do this means a massive job and if I was to do this I might as well strip bike completely and anodise & paint stuff I've modded along the way.

........ssssssoooooooo I went to the guys who do my Maloo tuning who are the Haltech agents and had a very long discussion with him about my problem and came to the conclusion that the effort to change out to Busa would virtually be identical to having to set up the Haltech albeit the Suzuki ECU would not have anywhere near the ability to add or remove inputs or outputs such as the Haltech can do.

I didn't want to spend the money, again, but hopefully this will at least give me the tuning ability for turbo & Nitrous which is where I wanted to be once I got the Fuel Injection sorted.

Sorry for the rant .... but you did ask:)

[oldskool]

Just as well you WA boys have too much money hey ;)

[Hagarr]

Just as well you WA boys have too much money hey ;)

Well now theres a strange one also, now the market has died, West Australia is full of Mexicans and companies chaffing to do stuff, but no work, so everybody is undercutting like hell.

Interesting where it will all go to.

We've actually been doing more work in Sydney than Perth B.I.O.N.!

[wackyrider]

All the work is moving to Qld, that's why. I have people flying to put on jobs from WA on a weekly basis.

That's why I relocated up to Brissy.

APLNG, GLNG, QCLNG are the main projects, not to mention all the contracting companies that are sub-contracting work out there. Lots of work in CSG if you want to make some mula

If you know anyone experiences in Chemical cleaning work or running Nitrogen Units let me know as we're screaming for guys

[MattyDucati]

I run igg's now.