Possible CTP increase???

[BOBBY]

Mate showed me an article on nerdbook today about ctp increases that could mean we would pay up to and over $2000 for a green slip. Anyone see or hear about this? Was posted by Borris Mihalovic apparently.

[nick76]

Thats been doing the rounds for a bit now i think. Kev put a link up on the ASF Facey Page.....
https://www.facebook.com/groups/488378801234326/permalink/488449974560542/

[nick76]

Status Update
By NSW Motorcycle Alliance
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - Tuesday, 4th June.
MASSIVE GREENSLIP PRICE HIKES ON CARDS

Information released by the Motor Accidents Authority yesterday reveal the likelihood of potentially crippling increases in Greenslip premiums for NSW road users under the new proposals being championed by embattled Finance Minister, Greg Pearce.
The bill was introduced to Parliament recently despite road user groups being assured it was many months away, and the Government is trying to ram it through quickly, before the public is made aware of the full extent of its contents.

The new information was delivered by the MAA to the two main Motorcyclist representative groups in NSW yesterday in an attempt to allay the fears that are spreading amongst the motorcycling community that they could soon be paying well in excess of $2,000 for their Greenslips. However the figures contained in the letter reveal that the increases could be even more savage than first thought. On the MAA’s own numbers, it costs an average of $221,000 to rehabilitate a motorcyclist after they are involved in a crash with another vehicle, and the MAA expects the changes in the scheme to include at-fault drivers and riders and those in single vehicle crashes to increase the number of motorcycle claims by 1,000 annually.

Christopher Burns of the Motorcycle Council of NSW said “That could result in an increase in payouts to motorcyclists of $221million. Just that increase alone is more than three times what we pay into the system currently, so riders are naturally worried, and find it impossible to see how they can fund this without increasing our already overpriced Greenslips by at least 300%.”

Dave Cooke, Manager of the NSW Motorcycle Alliance said today, “The MAA claim in their letter to us that they have had Ernst & Young go over the new proposals and that they can assure us we won’t be paying more for Greenslips, but they refuse to make the information from Ernst & Young public. This lack of transparency is frightening for all road users in NSW, not just motorcyclists, and I’m sure there’s not a single car or bike or truck owner in NSW who will trust the MAA when they say we should take them at their word about Greenslip pricing, given their history of failing to control the insurance companies and their massive profits from the CTP system.”

Ironically, after all of Premier O’Farrell’s boasts that he would save us all money by getting the lawyers out of the process, all he’s done is create more profits for the insurance companies, and proposed a system that leaves the drivers and riders of NSW open to attack from predatory insurance companies without the benefit of a lawyer to protect them.
The main winners in the new system are the big insurance companies, and their increases in profits will come from the reduced payouts to innocent road crash victims.

The NSW Motorcycle Alliance and the MCC of NSW are calling on the Motor Accidents Authority and Finance Minister Greg Pearce to make public the Ernst & Young report into the new scheme proposed by the Bill and to postpone the passage of the Bill while that report is analysed by NSW Road User groups so everyone can determine the true impact. The Minister and the MAA should also tell the people of NSW exactly what the change in Greenslip prices will be for each type of vehicle. If they are not prepared to sign off on a percentage increase or decrease and be held accountable for that prediction, then the new scheme should be scrapped and the current scheme should remain in place until real improvements can be made, not just improvements that satisfy the big insurers’ insatiable appetite for profits from the misery of all NSW road users.
Info;
NSW Motorcycle Alliance – Dave Cooke 1300 937 433 dcooke@motorcyclealliance.com.au
MCC of NSW – Christopher Burns 0418 486 660 cjburns@ihug.com.a

[Weaselman]

It was only a matter of time afer our win over the fuckers that they would try a major snowball tactic. This time they are trying to camoflage it as an overall increase rather than a targeted one.

Make no mistake if they can they will.

Everyone has a right to be scared though. Although an increase as stated in the letter would never be allowed under consumer law a large increase is entirly possible.
We are dealing with SHAREHOLDER owned companys. PROFIT DRIVEN companys where sensibility is secondary to profit. The ONLY was of not getting fucked in the arse is to introduce an insurance system administered by Federal Government and not a private company and subsidised by taxes.
Would you take a tax hike for a system that could maintain service and low TAXPAYER REGULATED costs? I would.

The last time we fought we were stimied by all the lazy useless fucks who wouldnt sign petitions or go to rallys ect. (With exceptions of course) And if this is seriously on the table everyone from a bike rider to a family who own a car should be out there yelling for blood.

Lets see how useless we are this time around.

[latheboy]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a "Greenslip"?

Is it the same as getting a road worth?

[Weaselman]

Its a form of compulsory basic insurance that you need to buy along with your rego every year. You cant register a vehicle in NSW without it

[hooligan]

Compulsory third party, it insures you for damage you may cause to other people.
Property is cheap and easy to fix, people cost a lot more to rehabilitate.
Even though a person being hit by a car causes more damage, bike riders tend to pay more.

[Large]

Today's release-

MOTORISTS LEFT DEFENCELESS AGAINST BIG INSURERS

NSW motorists are about to be left at the mercy of the huge insurance companies under plans by the State Government to re-vamp the CTP Greenslip scheme.

Some months ago, Premier O’Farrell announced plans to reduce Greenslip prices by removing the litigation from the system, blaming lawyers for holding up compensation payments to accident victims and for increasing the cost of the scheme.

But the legislation that embattled Finance Minister Greg Pearce is attempting to ram through Parliament makes it clear that the only lawyers being removed from the system are the ones representing motorists, while the insurance companies will still have the luxury of using their in-house lawyers to try and stop paying out to innocent accident victims.

Dave Cooke, Manager of the NSW Motorcycle Alliance said today, “In the past, much of the litigation in the system was between the insurance companies, with one insurer trying to prove the other insurer’s client was responsible for an accident, because who was at fault determined which Greenslip policy would have to pay out. Under the new proposals all motorists will claim against their own Greenslip after an accident, not that of the person who caused the crash, so insurers won’t be fighting with each other anymore, they’ll be fighting against their own customers to prevent paying out.”

Christopher Burns of the Motorcycle Council of NSW agreed, adding “The problem with the legislation is it doesn’t really allow the victim to use a lawyer to protect themselves against the insurers who refuse to pay out. Even if the motorist wins, they won’t be able to claim back legal costs. So the only lawyers that have been cut out of the system are the ones working for innocent accident victims, while the insurers can have as many lawyers as they can afford.”

Both the MCC of NSW and the NSW Motorcycle Alliance represent hundreds of riders who have felt first-hand the power of insurance companies who are more interested in shareholder profits than meeting their obligations to injured people, and hold grave fears for how motorists and riders will be able to protect themselves against the insurers’ behaviour under the new scheme.

It appears that the new legislation has been written totally for the benefit of the big insurance companies, at the expense of the people of NSW, particularly those who are unfortunate enough to suffer serious injuries in a road accident. The new legislation contains no new measures to put a halt to the massive profits the insurers make from the CTP scheme, but contains a lot of measures to reduce the benefits that innocent accident victims are entitled to in terms of covering their costs and loss of income, making it difficult to see how it is anything other than a cash grab by the insurers, with the assistance of Finance Minister Pearce.

Info;
NSW Motorcycle Alliance – Dave Cooke 1300 937 433 dcooke@motorcyclealliance.com.au
MCC of NSW – Christopher Burns 0418 486 660 cjburns@ihug.com.au

[Weaselman]

So why bother with insurance? Your fucked either way... So why bother with rego. It woud be cheaper to do a runner and if you were caught use the state legal aid

[Redmohawk]

In vic the system is setup like a private company but owned by the state (I had a great deal to do with them a few years after formation in 1986 working as an advocate for people with ABI's)

"The TAC pays an average of $150,000 each road death and an average of $1,500,000 for each serious injury (eg traumatic brain and spinal injuries). In the 2010/11 financial year, the TAC paid out $937 million in benefits and compensation, to 43,794 people which represents a direct cost to the Victorian community funded by premiums paid by vehicle owners. "

TAC victoria are currently making money not loosing it, protest change the law and kill off the private sector sucking your blood. Shit the Vic TAC would jump at the chance to take NSW money and provied a resonable service to NSW residents.

[fimpBIKES]

fuck em, just have vic rego :)

[alfiestorm]

yeah move out of NSW ;)

[BOBBY]

Vic rego sounds like the go. We get shafted here.

Looks like the booze hound Greg Pearce has been given an ultimatum. Too much partying for him.

[Large]

It can cost as little as $225 a year to register a 1000cc bike in WA

[wackyrider]

In Vic you pay about $500 odd for TAC every year. Rego in all costs about $680 a year (including TAC)

[StuNVA]

WA and QLD look like the go then, fuck this state.

I can't believe what they are proposing, they want us to claim against our own insurance company without the ability of having any means for recourse....that's just straight up communistic. The insurance company would just fuck you around as long as they can and milk your fighting fund dry until you gave up. This is bordering on criminal.

If the guy on facebook instigating it all wasn't such a self righteous insulting human he may well find he has more support. I'll watch this unfold, I'm that over politics at all levels lately I truly believe they do not give a single fuck about the people they are supposed to represent anymore.

[OLD SKOOL BANDIT]

Depends where you live I think frenchie, got mine here, $46.50 reg fee, $394 TAC charge & $39.40 insurance duty. Total $479.90

[wackyrider]

Depends where you live I think frenchie, got mine here, $46.50 reg fee, $394 TAC charge & $39.40 insurance duty. Total $479.90

Yeah, the further out of the city you live, the cheaper it is.

[Fight_fan]

Thats fuckin crazy! My 7/11 is already nearly as expensive as my ute to register!
Think it might be time to move...

[Redmohawk]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/488378801234326/

[nick76]

yeah,i liked that page early on.....then Revhead popped up on my newsfeed the other night,with his brilliant thoughts.......

http://i.imgur.com/I7Y0OBn.png

and i thought he only made a dick of himself on here.......

[Redmohawk]

Boris sorted him out pritty fast , No shit taken on the page. This is something that needs to be sorted 100% now anyone who gives a fuck about bikes should be getting on the bandwagon, the page is about real action not wankers talking about what should be done.

If your from a different state is doesnt matter, there are regulations/laws in other states making life a little easyer for us. BUT what happens when the insurance companys are doing as they please in NSW realise the untapped reserves of out pockets in Queensland and VIC ? You can bet your life they will lobbie pollies to privatise out states to. Don't think it will happen ? They already tried in the 80's when I was involved with avocacy for ABI patients. Once a foot hold is well established in one state we are all in real danger of being reamed more than usual.

Support your fellow riders with personal hand written letters to members of parlament in NSW and even your own local state members.

[BANDITROD]

he really is a first class fuckwit isnt he

[Redmohawk]

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE - Wednesday, 5th June. MOTORISTS LEFT DEFENCELESS AGAINST BIG INSURERS
NSW motorists are about to be left at the mercy of the huge insurance companies under plans by the State Government to re-vamp the CTP Greenslip scheme.
Some months ago, Premier O’Farrell announced plans to reduce Greenslip prices by removing the litigation from the system, blaming lawyers for holding up compensation payments to accident victims and for increasing the cost of the scheme.
But the legislation that embattled Finance Minister Greg Pearce is attempting to ram through Parliament makes it clear that the only lawyers being removed from the system are the ones representing motorists, while the insurance companies will still have the luxury of using their in-house lawyers to try and stop paying out to innocent accident victims.
Dave Cooke, Manager of the NSW Motorcycle Alliance said today, “In the past, much of the litigation in the system was between the insurance companies, with one insurer trying to prove the other insurer’s client was responsible for an accident, because who was at fault determined which Greenslip policy would have to pay out. Under the new proposals all motorists will claim against their own Greenslip after an accident, not that of the person who caused the crash, so insurers won’t be fighting with each other anymore, they’ll be fighting against their own customers to prevent paying out.”
Christopher Burns of the Motorcycle Council of NSW agreed, adding “The problem with the legislation is it doesn’t really allow the victim to use a lawyer to protect themselves against the insurers who refuse to pay out. Even if the motorist wins, they won’t be able to claim back legal costs. So the only lawyers that have been cut out of the system are the ones working for innocent accident victims, while the insurers can have as many lawyers as they can afford.”
Both the MCC of NSW and the NSW Motorcycle Alliance represent hundreds of riders who have felt first-hand the power of insurance companies who are more interested in shareholder profits than meeting their obligations to injured people, and hold grave fears for how motorists and riders will be able to protect themselves against the insurers’ behaviour under the new scheme.
It appears that the new legislation has been written totally for the benefit of the big insurance companies, at the expense of the people of NSW, particularly those who are unfortunate enough to suffer serious injuries in a road accident. The new legislation contains no new measures to put a halt to the massive profits the insurers make from the CTP scheme, but contains a lot of measures to reduce the benefits that innocent accident victims are entitled to in terms of covering their costs and loss of income, making it difficult to see how it is anything other than a cash grab by the insurers, with the assistance of Finance Minister Pearce.
Info; NSW Motorcycle Alliance – Dave Cooke 1300 937 433 dcooke@motorcyclealliance.com.au
MCC of NSW – Christopher Burns 0418 486 660 cjburns@ihug.com.au

[hooligan]

CJ asked me to post this link up here. It's to the MCC of NSW.
He used to be a member on here as CJburnsesquire or something, back in the early days with clairebear and mad mundy (version1).

http://mccofnsw.org.au/a/203.html
(http://mccofnsw.org.au/a/203.html)




(http://mccofnsw.org.au/a/203.html)

[Weaselman]

Ha he pissed off Boris. Never a good move. I'll be sure remind him who pete is in the crowd if there is a protest.

[Redmohawk]

Ha he pissed off Boris. Never a good move. I'll be sure remind him who pete is in the crowd if there is a protest.

Like

[BOBBY]

Farkenell Pete doesn't know when to shut the fuck up. He mustn't think before be opens his trap either.

Does anyone know of a letter template or a specific letter floating about that we can email off to all on that mcc list?

[Redmohawk]

A template generic letter is a waste of your time, the letter doesnt have to be written by shakespear. Just jot down your concerns in "normal pissed off speek" and make it specific to whom your writting it to. Ask why information is being hidden, why they consider your lifestyle insignificant. Why do they consider it acceptable for a victim of road trama to be finachally/physically punished when hurt through no fault of they're own. etc etc use your own words to make more effect than 100 proforma letters.

If you must use a pre drafted letter there are several on the FB site , look under "files" at the top of the page. They also have listed the email addresses of main places to send them. Go see your local member (I even when and chatted with my fed member friday here in vic and asked wft the nsw state pollies were up to) pressure from every direction.

[BOBBY]

Thanks for that. It helped. I'll try type something up this arvo. Not a fb so I'll have to work around that somehow.

[StuNVA]

Just got the rego for the Tuono, it's still in QLD, it's gone up $200pa, that's just under a 50% increase.

[_M_]

As motorcyclists are the majority of the time not at fault in a multi-vehicle accident coupled with the minimal third party costs associated with those that are, this is the worst possible way of arranging the third party personal injury scheme.

No one wins only motorcyclists lose out big time.

[Redmohawk]

The FB page has got some traction , several larger media mobs are now starting to take notice , even channel 10 is investigating. With a little over 11,000 members (not likes , actual members) its seems the pollies are starting to get a little testy with the letter/email campain. Anyone who hasnt joined up from nsw is fucking mad , and if your from the other states might be worth realising that this sort of shit might just get rolled out everywhere if people dont make a stand now.

[Redmohawk]

Well this is the latest
David Cooke (https://www.facebook.com/david.cooke.31149?hc_location=stream)
Morning all. As you know we had our meeting last night with the MAA. It’s appropriate that you now receive an update of the results of your hard work so far.

On behalf of motorcyclists, CJ Burns and Brian Wood attended on behalf of the MCC of NSW and I attended on behalf od the NSW Motorcycle Allaince. The usual members of the MAA Motorcycle Working Party were in attendace as well. Julie Newman also attended. She is the CEO of the Safety, Return To Work And Support Division, which means she sits on the Board of the MAA. She was impressive to deal with and listened very closely to our concerns.

Overall, the meeting was well run, and we were treated with respect and professional courtesy. The meeting also ran considerably over time, as you can imagine.

Firstly, let me inform you that we have confirmed this morning with the Shooters and Fishers Party that they intend to continue to hold the bill up over the winter recess to give everyone time to look at the bill a bit harder. This is a huge win for us, and exactly what we asked the Shooters and Fishers to do for us when we first met with them on this a couple of weeks ago. It is also a massive embarrassment for the government and Finance Minister Pearce. It also means that Treasurer Baird must now deliver the budget without having the CTP plans locked away.

The main benefit in all of that is that now we have time to work with the Shooters and Fishers and the Government to hopefully ammend the things we do not like. There are some good things in this bill, but there are also things we are deeply concerned about. We now have an opportunity to work on those things.

In terms of what was discussed last night with the MAA (the department that runs the CTP system), there was a lot of questions asked and a lot of answers given. Rather than give you “our version” of the answers we received, we have requested the MAA to provide us with written answers to a bunch of questions which we can then publish here for you. You all can then decide for yourself whether you are satisfied or not with those answers and let us know your thoughts. We hope to be able to publish that for you in the next day or so.

On the headline matter of Greenslip premiums for motorcycles, you can all give yourselves an “interim” pat on the back.

Since this started, we have said that our chances of totally stopping this bill were slim. We still feel that is probably the case in the long term. It is likely there may be some amendments around the treatment of children and legal representation and appeals processes, but we still feel the bill will pass eventually.

On that basis, we always said that motorcycle premiums were in danger of massive increases under a switch to a no-fault scheme, and we offered proof as to why. Many people claimed we were making it up, and some of them have even come on this page. We said that the MAA would need to cross-subsidise motorcycle premiums (charge everyone else more and give the extra to us) if our premiums were to remain stable and affordable. Last night, the MAA confirmed that what we had been saying was absolutely correct, and that massive cross-subsidisation would be required if bike premiums were to remain stable.

They have now committed to doing exactly that. They ran us through their plans and how they intend to set up a fund that will move money around inside the system to subsidise our premiums. And we are talking hundreds of dollars per bike.

The result is that the relativities between car and bike premiums will remain as they are currently. So we shouldn’t see an increase, assuming they stick to their word.

They have also said they are prepared to give us that undertaking in writing.

This is a huge win for all of us, and is what we were hoping to achieve from the start.

Now, to counter that, it is worth noting that the legislation itself does not refer specifically to how premiums are set. That is entirely a matter for the MAA. The MAA is prepared to give us undertakings that they will look after us, but we will need to always remain vigilant on this, because as we are about to see in Victoria with the TAC, they can change those relativities any time they like with the stroke of a pen. The only thing that stops them is knowing that we can be a formidable foe if they try.

You can all take heart from this. Your work has been brutally effective, and we have what we want. Firstly, the bill is stalled. Secondly, if it does get up, our premiums will be subsidised and shouldn’t rise. So effectively, an estimated extra 1,000 injured riders per year will be able to access compensation, and it won’t cost us any extra. Obviously there’s still a long way to go on all this and much to still play out, but we are in front now.

Well done.

[Redmohawk]

Well folks of NSW a little update care of the Fb page, to all those that helped with letter writting etc thanks.

Christopher Cj Burns (https://www.facebook.com/christopher.j.burns.3?hc_location=stream)

Congratulations to all as the NSW Government has announced it has abandoned its contentious Greenslip reforms (Page 8 Daily Telegraph). We have managed to get this dodgey piece of legislation pulled by NSW Finance Minister Andrew Constance and the O’Farrell Government. This is a common sense move to pull bad legislation that would have left many innocent victims without medical cover after five years and led to others being much worse off.
Many many people have done so much to get this terrible bill overturned. This has shown that we, the riders and our supporters, can indeed change the world for the betterment of all the people in NSW, not just ourselves.
When we see injustice from a Government that does not listen, we band together, we fight for our rights and we can then determine our own futures with some blood sweat and tears, but most of all by banding together and fighting for a common cause and the common good. We have won by having this bill defeated and now it is time to negotiate a system that is truly fair, reasonably priced and for the betterment of the people of NSW instead of lining the pockets of the insurance companies.
Well done to all in getting this legislation overturned and withdrawn.

[Tony Nitrous]

Single seat rego is good value,
there was talk of that going too.