Again with the zx9 float bowl mod thing

[whitelineweaver]

I want to run my 2001 x9 without the ram air scoops and am wondering which way to go. I've spent hours searching and have seen a few different ways to do it. The youtube vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtISwbsv-yc looks pretty straight forward. Others stick the hose up through the filter but I'd like to avoid cutting a hole in the K&N filter. There was another using the carb rack assembly.

Me bike
4248

BTW I've seen pics with a vacuum switch valve but mine doesn't have that, just goes straight through to the front of the bike. Normal?

I've seen this has been answered before on this site a few times but the pics were removed or I didn't understand the parts they were talking about. I'm mechanically challenged so bear with me.

[Hillsy]

I ended up trimming up the intake scoops, then plumbing the carb balance pipe into the airbox underneath where the scoops entered the airbox. That way I didn't have to cut a hole in the filter. Works fine at all speeds....after I rejetted to suit the new exhaust and K&N filter.

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq6/hillsythegreat/ZX9TwoTone.jpg

http://i428.photobucket.com/albums/qq6/hillsythegreat/IMG_2366.jpg

[whitelineweaver]

That looks mint! So you did something similar to the youtube vid? What did you use to filter the pipes?

[Gix11]

Here's a full build thread if you're interested: http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/showthread.php?14-Cammy-s-ZX9R

More stuff on the main topic: http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/showthread.php?24519-ZX6-RAM-air-mod

[Hillsy]

That looks mint! So you did something similar to the youtube vid? What did you use to filter the pipes?

I used the filter that was on the original pipe coming from the fairing scoop.

[whitelineweaver]

Here's a full build thread if you're interested: http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/showthread.php?14-Cammy-s-ZX9R

More stuff on the main topic: http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/showthread.php?24519-ZX6-RAM-air-mod

Thanks, I've seen both before but reading through cammy's build again gave me a couple of ideas. I bookmarked the 2nd one 2 days ago. Think I found every post on the internet relating to the ram issue :rolleyes:


I used the filter that was on the original pipe coming from the fairing scoop.

I'd thought of doing that but I don't think there's room. I'm assuming you tee'd the 2 float valve pipes into one, then the filter, then branched a pipe into each intake scoop? Going by the other thread, have you removed the kleen system?

[Hillsy]

I took the airbox off, turned it upside down and drilled a hole through the bottom mid way between the two intake holes. Then I plumbed a single pipe into there and ran that to the single balance pipe off the carbs (with the filter on the new pipe between the carbs and the airbox). That way I didn't have to cut a hole in my K&N like they do on the ZX7R mod.

And you don't need to run a pipe to each scoop. Not sure what You Tube vid you are talking about, but if it's the Seppo one where he claims he makes 15 extra HP with his mod he's full of shit.

And I did remove all the KLEEN air stuff - get yourself a T piece to put between the 2 intakes on the cam cover and plumb the crankcase breather into it. Plug the other vacuum pipes up and you're good to go.

[TurboKat]

The holes in the reed valve covers can be plugged/blanked/sealed completely with no adverse effects, no need to have any vac or vent lines going to them.
Muzzy make billet blockoff plates if price is no object.

[whitelineweaver]

4251 Can you enlarge the image because I can't?

So did you run a pipe off this connector around and up through the middle hump of the airbox between the intakes with the filter inline and only used one of the Y connectors, maybe blocking the other one?

With the kleen system, just rip it out and rejoin the reed valves to the original hose going to the carb rack (right of bottom pic) or the bigger hose at the back in the left of the first pic? Or just block off the reed valves completely. Saw a pic where someone had glued a coin underneath!

4252 Removing this canister wont affect the engine?

[Hillsy]

Hmmm - your airbox base is shaped differently to my E1. Mine is a lot flatter between the intake tubes.

You just need to plumb the balance pipe into the airbox somehow. You could put it into the port for the crankcase breather, then plumb the crankcase breather to the KLEEN air tubes on the cam cover. Doing this keeps the crankcase in a more positive vacuum and (apparently, so I've read...) can give you some extra HP as the engine spins up quicker.

Or just plumb the balance pipe to the KLEEN port on the airbox (the one that sits below the balance pipe in your pic). Either of these methods means you wont need the in-line filter (because these ports are past the air filter).

[Yella]

If you fit a turbo you can plumb the balance lines into the airstream before the plenum and you have the added bonus of extra power :)

[whitelineweaver]

Ok cool, I think I'll go with the first idea. Or the turbo:p

Take the KLEEN system out and plug the remaining small hose that goes to the back of the carbs and block off the KLEEN air port at the end of the carb rack. Route the crank case hose to a13mm retic T at the cam covers. Run a hose from the balance pipe around the front of the airbox (to avoid a kink) and into the crank case airbox port. No hole drilling and need of filter, I like it!

Have I got it?

[Hillsy]

That's the right idea.

You might be able to take the hard plastic balance tube off and mount it the other way round so it comes out on the other side of the carb rack (it will be closer to the airbox port you are aiming for and will save you some tubing spaghetti).

Or just cut the right angle off the hard plastic tube as it is and then plumb that into the KLEEN port on the airbox (you'll only have a 90 deg bend to deal with then).

[Hillsy]

4251

Actually, you already have the pipe there from the KLEEN system - just cut it past the 2nd bend, cut the bend off the plastic balance tube and join them up. Job done.

[whitelineweaver]

I'd like to keep the hard plastic intact in case I want to reverse it all later. Yeah right!

Ok I'll use the KLEEN port with an elbow or two to get there rather than taking it round the front to the other port.
The KLEEN hose diameter is larger than the balance pipe port. I'll figure something out.

Thanks for your time Hillsy, really appreciate it mate.

[NINJAINOZ]

Post some pics when you get it sorted

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/showthread.php?24434-1994-zxr-750&p=378789&viewfull=1#post378789

In this guide it mentions at the bottom of the Float Bowl Mod section - "Note: No matter how you connect it, connect the line (Bowl vent) where the clean air is, between the air filter and the carbs." ?
http://www.jonesisland.com/7r/motor/

I was able to run the float bowl vent hose to the right side side of the air box on my ZXR 750 using the original hoses, Different airbox on the ZX9 but you should be able to sort out something similar>

http://i1250.photobucket.com/albums/hh540/NINJAINOZ/ZXR750 FIGHTER BUILD/992a1ba2-41cb-4e17-a951-df2b4723952d_zpsd5f19927.jpg (http://s1250.photobucket.com/user/NINJAINOZ/media/ZXR750 FIGHTER BUILD/992a1ba2-41cb-4e17-a951-df2b4723952d_zpsd5f19927.jpg.html)

[whitelineweaver]

Ok, I'll do that tomorrow.

Thanks for the links. Bit confusing til I realised they were about 7r's!

[NINJAINOZ]

Sorry didnt mention that but basically the same carby's & the same principal & as the links mention make sure the hose goes in between the filter & the carby's, If you run the hose in front of the filter & happen to ride on some dusty roads the dust can go down the float bowl vent hose/s & fill the carby's up with some lovely dust/engine internal cutting compound

[Hillsy]

I'd like to keep the hard plastic intact in case I want to reverse it all later.



Just keep the angle piece and you can re-join it by slipping a larger diameter hose over both pieces and clamping it on (a bit like like in NINJAs pic).

Post some pics when you get it all buttoned up mate :o

[whitelineweaver]

Yeah, good idea. I'll cut it and hose clamp the already bent pipe on. Right, off to get stuff.

[whitelineweaver]

4268
Well, after going to 4 different stores I've done it. The hose needed was about 14 mm but had to do with 5/8. The 13 mm retic T's a bit of a bodgy fit.

Also knocked up some speedo brackets out of a couple of mending plates from bunnings. Not sure if the position will work with the new headlight when that arrives. I'd like to use a single aluminium plate but not sure where to get. Maybe I'll bend them and paint black.
4269 4270

Waiting on a stator cover before I can test the bike.

[Dynomutt]

I've found the easiest way to sort out the float chamber pressure problem is to simply drill two holes in the underside of the airbox directly above the two Tee pieces for the float chamber vents on the carbs and then run a short length of hose from each Tee piece straight up into the airbox a couple of inches under the filter then slashcut the hose around 45 degrees and face the cut forwards. I've done this on several ZX9R that I've had on the dyno for setting up. It's much simpler than running bits of hose upto the front of the bike or putting holes in the filter.

[whitelineweaver]

Thanks for the info mate. I was originally going to do something like that (in fact I had your method bookmarked) but the way I went avoids drilling holes and putting filter over the hoses. If this doesn't work I'll probably try your method.

I'm going to put some carb screens over the intake holes which might reduce the air flow a little. I've got the impression that "ram air" only helps at speeds I don't intend going and that as long as I've got the same air pressure happening the bike will go alright.

Also, the bike has a K&N air filter with a chopped AM pipe. I asked the previous owner about it the other day - said he hadn't rejetted or anything. It seemed to go fine but I had nothing to compare it to. Hope it still goes fine after all this tampering.

[Redmohawk]

Once your all sorted , might be worth going to a dyno or decent bike shop and getting the tail sniffed to see where your mixtures are if it hasnt had a rejet etc. Most likely there are a few ponies hiding in the mix , or running a little lean.

[whitelineweaver]

I'll do that, cheers.

After reading up on it, it seems the popping sound on the decel isn't ideal. But it sounds good to me:)

[Redmohawk]

Popping is common enough with a opened up can, On decel only its prob lean. If its hunting at low revs (sits a little high then drops to normal idle or moves around a bit) also sign of lean.

[whitelineweaver]

Ah ha! The engine didn't sound steady at idle and I wondered if that was normal. Needed the choke on for quite a while to warm up too.

[Redmohawk]

Def lean then , I would get a tune asap

[whitelineweaver]

Will do, thanks man.
And I bought this off a mechanic :confused:

Think I'll start a new thread when my parts arrive. Hurry up stator cover!

[Hillsy]

They're jetted quite lean from the factory. Also the tubing around the fairings and into the airbox is more restrictive than when you run them naked so just taking the scoops off can make them run lean. Add in a K&N and a pipe and you'll definitely want a re-jet.

The rough idle might just be un-sync'd carbs though - makes quite a difference to have them sync'd.

[whitelineweaver]

Just spoke to a guy - $6-800 for dyno and rejet. Jesus! Just want the bike to run ok, not win a fucking race!

[Redmohawk]

Maybe have a chat with some of the boys in ASF up your way, I'm sure you could prob neg someone giving you a hand to sort it. Prob cost you a serious bashing of your beer fridge though.

[whitelineweaver]

Yeah that's a good idea. Maybe I could do the rejetting myself. Maybe I'll regret that thought.

[BANDITROD]

jump into the WA section of the forum and ask for help mate im sure you will get it

[whitelineweaver]

Once I get the bike running again I'll do that. Thanks fellas.

[Gix11]

Try and see if one of the WA lads knows a good Dyno guy who will let you do your own jetting in between runs. That's what we did round here. Get yourself a good selection of jets around the area you think you'll need. Maybe get one run under the belt first to gauge how far you need to go.

[whitelineweaver]

I'll try that, thanks for the advice.

[Dynomutt]

Thanks for the info mate. I was originally going to do something like that (in fact I had your method bookmarked) but the way I went avoids drilling holes and putting filter over the hoses. If this doesn't work I'll probably try your method.

I'm going to put some carb screens over the intake holes which might reduce the air flow a little. I've got the impression that "ram air" only helps at speeds I don't intend going and that as long as I've got the same air pressure happening the bike will go alright.

Also, the bike has a K&N air filter with a chopped AM pipe. I asked the previous owner about it the other day - said he hadn't rejetted or anything. It seemed to go fine but I had nothing to compare it to. Hope it still goes fine after all this tampering. You don't need to put any filters on the end of the two hoses if they are inside the airbox underneath the airfilter, as the air that enters the hoses and thereby the float chamber has to pass through the air filter in the first place. Leave the air intakes in the frame open without any gauze or mesh across them, the surface area of any gauze/mesh will hugely restrict the airflow into the airbox and thus into the engine. If all you have done is fit a K&N filter and an open can then just increase the mainjet by 1 to 2 sizes, so if you have 135 mainjets then fit some 137.5 or 140 mainjets, and lift the needle with a small washer no thicker than 1mm under the head of the needle. This should sort out the midrange and upper rev range without a DJ kit.

[whitelineweaver]

I thought your method was similar to the yank on youtube. If the hoses are under the air filter, aren't they getting the unfiltered air before it goes up through the filter?

I need to double check with the PO about the bike. I should probably pull out a spark plug and check it. Any idea on what's needed BTW?- 16mm, thin walled? Tube spanner?

I like the idea of just throwing in some bigger jets and washers and seeing how it goes. Could I do that and not have to touch anything else like float valves and mixture screws? Where to buy jets?

Pretty sick of googling man! Thanks

[Dynomutt]

The hoses come up in between the intakes, although they're technically below the height of the filter they are on the clean side. You don't need any filters on the end of the float chamber breather tubes, most bikes do not have them anyway. I run my flatslides open with velocity stacks and breather Tee pieces open and have done for years without issue. As for plug removal the ZX9R uses CR9E plugs which are the 10mm thread size, you'll need a 16mm plug spanner, either get yourself a Kawasaki articultated one that is in the bikes toolkit, or find a thinwalled version with the rubber insert to hold the plug, you can use a normal 16mm deep socket but you'll need a magnet to lift the plug from the plug well, the Kawasaki toolkit item is a good little tool and uses a 14mm spanner on the end to drive it, I have one that I keep in my small underseat toolkit along with a 14mm spanner.

[NINJAINOZ]

I found it cheaper to buy the pilot & main jets from the USA>
http://www.power-barn.com/servlet/the-Intake-and-Fuel-cln-Jetting/Categories

Details here>
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/showthread.php?24434-1994-zxr-750&p=369504&viewfull=1#post369504

ZXR Plug socket = 92110-1154>
http://www.motosport.com/AU/motorcycle/oem-parts/KAWASAKI/1994/NINJA-ZX_7/OWNER'S-TOOLS

I happened to have a Honda XR plug socket laying round which works great for a ZXR/ZX9>
http://www.motosport.com/AU/dirtbike/oem-parts/89216-MB0-000

You can type either of these numbers into ebay to possibly find a bargain?

[whitelineweaver]

Great! You're saving me a lot of time here fellas.

I'll see if I can find one at repco or supercheap. The bike has newish iridium plugs so if it's all too hard I won't bother for now. I may never have to change a plug. There are other ways to tell if the bike's running lean yeah? The blip test?

I think the stock main jets are 160 and 165. Guess I'll have to have to pull the carbs out and check it. If that's the case, could I just move the 2 165's to the outside and get 2 170's for the middle carbs? I'd be lucky if that were optimal, but with larger jets it's gotta be an improvement, assuming the bike's current setup is what it is.

Maybe it's best to put the bike back together, check that it's running about the same as before the mods were done, and get it checked professionally. I'll try the WA forum for that.

[Hillsy]

The hoses come up in between the intakes, although they're technically below the height of the filter they are on the clean side. You don't need any filters on the end of the float chamber breather tubes, most bikes do not have them anyway.

If I'm reading this right, you're trying to say the underneath side of the airbox where the ram tubes go in is the filtered side? It isn't. The air flows up through the air filter and clean air comes out the top side - which then goes over the carbs and then through.

The stock ram set-up has a filter on the balance pipe. Whether it's "necessary" or not is kinda subjective, but I'm running one on mine and it's fine.

My ZX9 runs a K&N fliter, Factory Pro 4 deg advancer, Muzzy 4-2-1 headers (off a C model) and a cut down Micron can. I got a Factory Pro jet kit and sent it off to the dyno. From memory my dyno guy ended up drilling out the original main jets because the FP jets in the kit weren't big enough. It pulls pretty hard from just about anywhere.

[Dynomutt]

No I don't know if I'm explaining it well enough, the short tubes that I run from the float vent Tee pieces end up entering the airbox in between the carbs 1&2 and 3&4 and come out on the clean side. Although they are below the level of the filter they are on the clean side as oppose to being underneath the filter The little canisters aren't filters per se, they are baffles to reduce any pulsing from the position of the pipes in the Ramair tubes, when the Tee piece vents are run into the airbox any pulsing is massively reduced by the air passing through the filter acting as a baffle.

[NINJAINOZ]

I think you are confusing us more now? You mention the vent tubes enter in the clean filtered side but then you mention pipes in the ram air tubes? What pipes are in the ram air tubes?
What exactly are the baffle/canisters?

Can you get some pics???

[Hillsy]

No I don't know if I'm explaining it well enough, the short tubes that I run from the float vent Tee pieces end up entering the airbox in between the carbs 1&2 and 3&4 and come out on the clean side. Although they are below the level of the filter they are on the clean side as oppose to being underneath the filter The little canisters aren't filters per se, they are baffles to reduce any pulsing from the position of the pipes in the Ramair tubes, when the Tee piece vents are run into the airbox any pulsing is massively reduced by the air passing through the filter acting as a baffle.

I think I get what you're saying now - but using the KLEEN port or the crankcase vent port on the airbox would be pretty much the same / less work than drilling the airbox to run the individual vent tubes in.

And the canister on the original vent pipe is a filter because the pipe starts at the front of the ram tube with unfiltered air and it needs filtering or the carbs would (eventually) fill with dirt.

But yes - if you can run your vent tubes between the carb intakes they will be on the filtered side of the airbox.