Radial calipers on non-radial adapters ?

[Tony Nitrous]

I know Big Kev and others have done this using something like this....

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/320984988537?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


Someone I know is getting rid of some GSXR750K4 calipers/pads(good) and lines.

Not seen them yet,
are they going to be any good to me to do a conversion on the Gen1 Busa ?

I know the spacing between the mounts varies between some makes and models ?

Are they a caliper worth having ? (as a budget option)
Im sure some are better than others but these are local and at a sensible price.

So...... GSXR750K4 radials onto Gen1 Busa legs, do-able ?

[Hillsy]

That eBay ad said to tell them what calipers you are going to use - so they must make them up to fit whatever.

Totally do-able if that's the case.

[Tony Nitrous]

I missed that.

I'll have a look for current ad's and see if anyone thinks the calipers
are worth having or is using them, I know some are better than others.

[Hagarr]

Yes Tony quite easy, I'll try and find the link to the company that makes the adaptors, he's in the U.K somewhere!

edit: www.thestopshop.co.uk

info@thestopshop.co.uk

Wal Saunders 08716661360 Ph (may need to drop the "0"

I tried the website but a bit iffy, he's hard man to get hold of but worth a try.



I know Big Kev and others have done this using something like this....

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/320984988537?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649


Someone I know is getting rid of some GSXR750K4 calipers/pads(good) and lines.

Not seen them yet,
are they going to be any good to me to do a conversion on the Gen1 Busa ?

I know the spacing between the mounts varies between some makes and models ?

Are they a caliper worth having ? (as a budget option)
Im sure some are better than others but these are local and at a sensible price.

So...... GSXR750K4 radials onto Gen1 Busa legs, do-able ?

[Tony Nitrous]

Thanks.

I went around and picked them up.
Not fantastic condition but I think they'll clean up.

He chucked in a LOT of other stuff (spanners/Sockets etc)
so couldnt complain at $50 for the lot.

TOKICO's with (i think) 108mm spaceing.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7997/tokico108.jpg

[RevHead]

so whats the advantage to these calipers versus the stand type calipers

[Tony Nitrous]

I dont like Suzuki 6 pots.
Not on either of my last two Busa's or my 1400 or any other Busa i've ridden
in the last 10 years, average at best, very out classed now.

I was going to change to normal 4 pots, but saw Kev and a couple of others
have gone to radial calipers on new mounts.

Even with better lines fluid and pads my Busa 6 pots are nowhere near as good
as the B-Kings radial calipers with factory rubber lines. Not expecting these to be
as good with aftermarket non-radial mounts but cant be any worse !

Just something cheap to play with and experiment.

[Hagarr]

Funny I've always found the Tokico to have a slight wooden feel, not sure why!!!

Not sure about these though probably OK.



Thanks.

I went around and picked them up.
Not fantastic condition but I think they'll clean up.

He chucked in a LOT of other stuff (spanners/Sockets etc)
so couldnt complain at $50 for the lot.

TOKICO's with (i think) 108mm spaceing.

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/7997/tokico108.jpg

[Tony Nitrous]

Funny I've always found the Tokico to have a slight wooden feel, not sure why!!!
Not sure about these though probably OK.

A tech-head in the UK told me its common for guys to remove these to fit
R1 or Blade calipers to stop fade at trackdays under hard use.

[Hagarr]

I'm sure there are others who will disagree but the King brakes are the best I have used and this includes better than Brembo or Lockheed (Standard form that is with no extras)

6 Spots :( Yuk

IMO




I dont like Suzuki 6 pots.
Not on either of my last two Busa's or my 1400 or any other Busa i've ridden
in the last 10 years, average at best, very out classed now.

I was going to change to normal 4 pots, but saw Kev and a couple of others
have gone to radial calipers on new mounts.

Even with better lines fluid and pads my Busa 6 pots are nowhere near as good
as the B-Kings radial calipers with factory rubber lines. Not expecting these to be
as good with aftermarket non-radial mounts but cant be any worse !

Just something cheap to play with and experiment.

[Tony Nitrous]

I'm sure there are others who will disagree but the King brakes are the best I have used and this includes better than Brembo or Lockheed (Standard form that is with no extras)
6 Spots :( Yuk
IMO

100%

As I said, my Busa has had several changes of pad's, fluids and new braided lines
and its as good as i've ever got a Busa. Stock out of the crate King makes it seem
very poor. Not sure which is worse, how poor the 6-pots are? or getting on the
B-King and still grabbing a BIG handful trying to stop it like you would on the Busa.

Gen2 Busa / B-King front end swap would be ideal, but not in my budget right now
(although I have the wheels and other parts put away towards this)

[Redmohawk]

From what I've read the main benifit or "radial calipers" is the master cyl as far as feel and extra braking is concerned. The radial caliper master cyl makes better use of the effort you excert on the leaver, due to better design effeciency (less mechanical loss).

The way the calipers bolt to the forks is secondry , Improving the ridgidity of the caliper to fork mounting and transmitting the forces to the fork leg in a way to reduce tortional forces pulling the pads skewed from the disk face.

Using brackets to mount Axially mounted calipers (What people call radial brakes) to a conventional fork probably reduces the benifit of the Axially mounted calipers to somewhere near the performance of the original standard mounted calipers as far as "stiffness in relation to the forks" is concerned. (but they will give you wank factor to the masses)

On the other hand bolting the correct sized radial master cyl to a set of conventional calipers should produce a balance of reduced travel/effort whilst still maintaining "feel" But not nesassarly give you as much street cred.

All this is purely out of my head and happy to see it shot down in flames as , its based on reading mostly a little riding of bikes with radial brakes.

I'm doing several front end swaps atm and one will be conventional forks to usd forks with convetional brakes of the same size as original calipers but I'll be fitting a radial master. Should be interesting to feel the difference, Maybe in another year I'll step up the the axial brakes as well and test my theory.

[RevHead]

ive fitted 19 mil radial master cylinder to mine ,and when i used it with the 6 pot calipers it was as SAID WOODEN,with the 4 pot calipers its got great feel and i can get it to stop much better,cheers Adds!

[Redmohawk]

You have to get the master piston size balance with the caliper piston area right.

Look at the master size your planing on using then look at the surface area of the calipers its ment to push. You need to know how big each piston size is (6 pison calipers will most likely have 3 different piston sizes) work out the total size of pistons then look at the calipers you want to use.

The piston area needs to be close to the same size, more area will give more Hydro amplification and more grip of the disk but more lever travel.

Less area will mean more effort on your part at the lever to exert the same clamping force at the disk but quicker "bite". Balance is the key and if your a nerd with spagetti arms or Popey make a difference to.

[Tony Nitrous]

Red, the Gen2 Busa uses radial mounted calipers,
They are a world of difference from the Gen1's 6 pots,
and it does not use a radial master cylinder.

The B-King uses the same calipers as the Gen2 Busa but
does have a radial master. The difference between the
two isn't that noticeable, although both are a vast upgrade
from the older 6 pots.

[Redmohawk]

Interesting to hear Tony , what's the pad size difference between the 6 pots and and the Gen2 radials ?

[Tony Nitrous]

Not sure. Someone (dynomutt?) did do a write up
that was pretty convincing as to why the standard
Suzuki 6 pots were poor and other multiple pad
calipers were better (than the single pad Suzuki)

[Hillsy]

I've heard the biggest advantage is that the radial calipers are one piece, as opposed to the 6 spotters being 2 halves bolted together. If you look at the Yamaha guys they use the R1 (non radial) calipers as an upgrade on TRX's and the like because they are one piece as well. Apparently the one piece calipers flex less and therefore have better response / feel.

[Tony Nitrous]

Some radial are one piece, some aren't.
The Tokico's I just bought are two piece,
then again, so are the factory Nissin caliperson on the B-King and Busa
that Hagarr and I'm so impressed with.

The one piece R1 calipers have always had a good rep.

[Hillsy]

Probably more than just the "sum of the parts" in some instances then.

[Redmohawk]

Or not , did some hunting for information , this is what I've found so far concerning busa brakes.

"Well I took the gen1 and gen2 service manuals so i can lay some hard facts on your http://www.hayabusa.org/forum/images/smilies/ikf/moon.gif

Gen1 has 15.854mm master cylinder diameter, gen2 has 13.984mm
Gen1 has 26.970mm brake caliper piston diameter, gen2 has 32.130mm

From these we can deduce the force multiplication:
gen1: 12*26.970^2/15.854^2=35
gen2: 8*32.130^2/13.984^2=42

So yes gen2 has 21% higher force multiplicationhttp://www.hayabusa.org/forum/images/smilies/ikf/whistling.gif
Putting gen2 master cylinder onto gen1 would yield 29% improvement in braking"

So from the looks of it , the "Better brakes" have considerably better hydro leverage. Hence they are better , the "radial" master and "Axial" calipers just help (maybe/prob) .

[Nelso]

I put a set of ZX14 radial calipers on my ZRX with the same brackets from Ebay a couple of years ago. They have improved the braking immensely. I don't know how good the Gixxer radial Tokicos are either, but the Kwaka ones are rubbish.

[Tony Nitrous]

Thanks Red. Interesting.
I'm sure that is part of it, although the 6-pots have
never had a good rep even with a better master.

Thanks for the feed back Nelso,
a few folk say similar, I'm hoping its right.