Tig Welder Advice Needed

[kev@vcm]

Hi guys ive been doing TIG welding at tafe and im enjoying it alot but now im looking to do some of my own stuff at home and im looking at buying a TIG welder the problem is there are alot to chose from , i went to my local welding supplier and all he wanted to do was sell me a unit for $5500 so i really need advice please

thanks guys

[Redmohawk]

Well Kev , I just bought a CIG smootharc 185 AC/DC TIG for $900 from BOC the fucker doesnt work was dead on arival (there replacing it with another brand spanker as I type this). Its prob a good choice but as Deano has mentioned the weldmaster units are also a good buy at around $1300-$1400 for a 200amp unit the going rate atm. I've got to watch my coin so went with the BOC unit. And it wont be often I'll be welding anything over 4-5mm ali 185 amp should do the trick (if I get a working one).

Both units are china made but your spending another 1/3 to get something made anywhere else. If you have the coin and a distributor in your area the weldmaster would be my choice , otherwise a the BOC unit I got if coin is tight. There are cheaper on evilbay but I'd steer clear (i've seen inside one unit , looked like monkeys put it together hence it shit itself)

On a side note , if you need to weld thicker stuff with the 185 amp unit going to helium/argon mix instead of straight argon will improve things considerably for a bit of an increase in cost of gas. Welding with the mix improves welds on thin material also but unless your doing real fussy work I couldnt justify the gas cost for home stuff.

And shop around for gas (BOC were $185 bottle rent for a G size) but they wanted $134 for straight argon , a local shop charged me $189 for bottle rent for a G but were only $87 for argon.

[kev@vcm]

yeah thanks adam that good to know mate , on ebay of all places hahahahaha they have these 3-1 units i looked at them but i worry there just cheapshit

something like this im sure should do the job

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cigweld-Weldskill-200-AC-DC-Tig-new-Model-/280900156973?pt=AU_Welding&hash=item4166f43e2d

[ozzy1100]

kev 1st ? you need to ask yrself is what do i want it to do
for tig u dont need 185 amp... unless u want to weld ally and that is the real ?
do you want to weld ally if yes from 800 to 1800 for china, 3500 and up for name brand
if no there are some great sright dc rigs and they do well
500 to 2000 but most around 1000 for a good dc rig(i just got a miller 150 with high fec start and pluse for 1400 very nice and only 6.5 kgs)
i would really like a ac machine but apart from not being able to weld ally (and just because u have a ac dont mean yr good enough to weld ally lol) my dc rig do all i need it . the only time i use the bigger amps is stick and thats on heaver steel

[Redmohawk]

Thats the next unit up from what I got , in the BOC shop here they have $2100 on the same unit. So at that price its prob a good buy.

I've played with a 3 in one unit , power output isnt what they clame , duty cycle is a bit of bullshit (it was struggling with 4mm ali). The unit I looked inside of had main power input far to close to the case to be safe. (shouldnt have passed Aus safety standards) I consider them to be junk.

[kev@vcm]

ok well i want to be able to weld alloy as well as steel but mainly it will be steel so i should just stick to a DC machine ? sorry for all the questions guys just not sure and i know the guy at my local weld shop just wants my money

[Redmohawk]

Most likely lol , If your just doing steel and your not being to fussy , you could just get a scratch start dc tig. Or (I'd) buy a old transtig 150 second hand of ebay (I saw one go a few weeks back for $300) its single phase and fine for stainless and mild .

If you want to do ali wait will you've finished your course and take some ali in to play with, Some find it easy others not. Then pick what you want to buy after you have more of an idea. I've done a fair amount at work with big Pulse Mig and an old 3 phase AC 250 amp transtig. But I'm still on a learning curve with my new AC tig. (I'm looking to do real thin 1mm ali tube and 0.8 mm titanium) Not big stuff.

[latheboy]

Here's some free advice.....

Dont put the ark lead across your lap while it's still timing out, the weight of the lead will pull the gun and stick the electrode in your leg and fuck all your nerves. You shake for a bit too.

It's been 6 months, the nerves haven't healed yet (if they ever will) and I still have pain and the feeling of a cramp in my thigh.

[ozzy1100]

i have just changed over to 1.6 tung and love the way it works with smaller amps sweet
there is nothing wrong with scratch start but there is scratch start and there is scratch start
there are some great cheeper machines out there and u get lift start or hot start both off with i have done shit loads
so much so that now i have the better gear i find it easier most of the time just to use old ways lol

[Redmohawk]

Here's some free advice.....

Dont put the ark lead across your lap while it's still timing out, the weight of the lead will pull the gun and stick the electrode in your leg and fuck all your nerves. You shake for a bit too.

It's been 6 months, the nerves haven't healed yet (if they ever will) and I still have pain and the feeling of a cramp in my thigh.

Sounds like a drastic way to recharge your batterys before a big ride mate .

[ozzy1100]

fuck had a few good bealts but that sounds not much fun .........

[Redmohawk]

The old transtig 250 at work has the HV runing all the time , once I put it down on my table (on a block of wood) and picked it up to move it without my gloves on , touched the tip ! Hmmm didnt do that again lol

[RevHead]

hey Red i got a trans mig ,could i buy alloy wire and another gun and lead and gas mix and go for it

[ozzy1100]

pete the best way is with a gun feed style unit and stright argon
i have even just used over size liner and let the wire run as norm but after u have to untangle wire feed the 100th time it gets old
but imho ally mig is best left for large fab or tack work just to get to some 1 that can do it prop
can be done but is fucking hard and lots of work just to get with in coowee of tig
u can even oxxy from what i have been told ... but why would u

[RevHead]

i want to learn ,to tig,i was going to buy a roll of alloy mig wire and a new lead n gun tomorrow and have a go

[K6Thou]

hey Red i got a trans mig ,could i buy alloy wire and another gun and lead and gas mix and go for itYou can weld aluminium with a mig Pete, I have seen it done with no liner or feed roller change, argon and C02 gas mix (normally used for steel). You shouldn't need to change the whole torch just the liner....

I should add that the welds were far from neat but they served their purpose.

[ozzy1100]

gun as in mig leed? only buy a small 1 kg spool clean yr old liner and head and run a loose wire feed it better to slip then bind
too much presure in drive wheels marks the soft ally wire and it dont run as smoth there for more binds
the prob also will be ull only get basic and not best welds with mig mix gas
it will work but wont work well . im not a welder so some 1 might have some better opp trust me id like to hear them lol
but looks like ill just have to wait till i cn aford a nice ac tig (prob 2nd hand 3 phase) but i have a mill to finish and tooling to buy 1st

[RevHead]

il buy a roll of alloy wire and have a go tomorrow il put up some piccis,

[ozzy1100]

please dont post them pete i have seen enough ugly after yr post of rods mellon thks

[RevHead]

please dont post them pete i have seen enough ugly after yr post of rods mellon thks
ahahahaha

[Redmohawk]

Pete forget using Ali through a steel liner, and with a dc mig like a transtig you want argon/helium mix at about $180 a bottle plus rent. Its far from worth it. You will still get uncontroled perosity through your welds (looks like shit to anyone who knows ali welding and will leak air/fuel if doing something important) .

Yes it can be done I did a car log intake with the transmig at work (with just argon) and a teflon liner.It was from 5 to 12mm thick, welded two log manifolds together with some 6mm plate. It had some perosity but i wasnt to stressed I'll dig up a photo of it. Took about 140 amps (but to do it I needed a mig capable of 250 as it needs to be a clean 140 not some welder that will "just" put out 140 for a while) I lined the inside with motorbike tank sealer so ensure it didnt have any leaks due to perosity (tested it before sealing it at 100psi in a waterbath, didnt go boom but did have 4 leaks)

As you can see the welds were far from pritty , with the pulse mig life was much easyer just set the material type gas and thickness it did all the real work and welds looked just sexy. Still not tig quality but very presentable.

[RevHead]

i need to make a few brackets and getting sick of paying $100 n hour to the metal shop down the road,i got aboc gas account so thats not a worry,and ive got a spare gun and lead,

[Redmohawk]

$100 an hour is a little steep , going rate here for tig/mig ali work is $75.

But if you set it all up and its only brackets prob only take 30 min to smash it out with mig (so $50) , still a fuck load cheaper than buying a $50 little roll of ali $400 worth of gas/bottle rent a $150 handpiece $35 for a teflon liner.

Dont forget if your grinding ali with a flap disk before welding it use a fresh disk (steel n other shit in the flap disk from other work will fuck your ali weld) and buy a separate stainless steel wire brush for cleaning up for the same reason. Weld on a clean bench (no grinding steel etc on it) clean is key to good mig welding Ali and torch is Neg when welding Ali (welding clamp is positive) Make sure your clamp is a good copper conductor to the workpiece not copper with steel teath.

[RevHead]

ty good advice

[MTBEERWAH]

i do a bit tig/mig ally at work,played with it on and off 25yrs,you can use your standard mig. set up with argon
as been said over sized liner, always make sure your gun and lead is as straight as possible,as there not really designed for it, and you need a pull through gun to make work properly.
you will get angry when the wire bunches up at the rollers...it will happen,
you should have U rollers!
porosity should only happen if not enough gas: wind blowing: or impurities in the material,and you should use an stainless steel wire brush to clean the area to be welded always

[RevHead]

il look into a pull through gun

[L.B]

Dont forget if your grinding ali with a flap disk before welding it use a fresh disk (steel n other shit in the flap disk from other work will fuck your ali weld) and buy a separate stainless steel wire brush for cleaning up for the same reason. Weld on a clean bench (no grinding steel etc on it) clean is key to good mig welding Ali and torch is Neg when welding Ali (welding clamp is positive) Make sure your clamp is a good copper conductor to the workpiece not copper with steel teath.
Yep good advice.Adding to that when welding aly,you esp. need to cover up all skin as I found the hard (or burnt) way lol.
So whats the latest info/thoughts on brands of AC/DC tigs?
Been looking at Unimig & would luv an Esab to go with the mig I have.Even welded aly with the mig,not too bad but would be better with tig.
Need to weld 3mm aly,info?Esp on what best gas mix to go for.

[kev@vcm]

OK guys thanks heaps for all the opinions awesome stuff , what im looking for is whats a good unit what should i stay away from ftuff like that please i dont know what is good or crap and my local guy just wants to sell me the best at a massive price im looking for a bugget priced TIG

now can i get something for about $2k these are the answers im seeking :)

cheers
BK

[Neo Dutch]

I have a Trans Tig AC/DC HF 150 amp machine. Does real nice work.

Supposedly Gasweld is selling cylinders in Sydney at the mo. Something like 5 hundy initial buy-in and then swap for the price of gas. Will be looking into it now that my rent is due.

[Redmohawk]

Finally got My Tig back first weld , in less than ideal conditions .

[Deano]

keep in mind you will spend another $600 or so on bits to make the machine weld the way you want on the materials you want. i have the below and some but to cover the 3 basic materials and different postions of accessability (95% of most of your future jobs) i would consider the below a 'starter package' and supply the below inc a welder as a 'ready to weld' package to customers that require. you can obviously do with out some fillers depending on what you want to weld but i have all my bases covered.

foot control
gas lenses and adaptors
4 or 5 different cups
1.6, 2.4, 3.2 tungstens and collets
short back caps
auto change welding helmet (dc tig suitable)
1.6 steel filler wire
1.6, 2.4 alloy filler wire
1.2, 1.6, 2.4 s/steel filler wire
pickling paste

[Issues]

I have had my unitig about 5 years or so now and its been a good unit so far. Seems to be a cheap copy of a Kempy, has all the same functions and such. 200 amp AC/DC HF start, 2 and 4 stage start switch and can be used with a foot controller that I don't have. I set the rgulator up with a Tee on the output side to run 2 flow controls for purge welding, I haven't used it to purge weld yet though. I have done plenty of winch mods, a polished T bucket floor pan and 265 HEMI multipoint fuel injected manifold and plenty od stainless turbo and induction piping. Plenty of other steel and stainless tig ect. I run 2.4 tungstens and normally 2.4 filler, sometimes 1.6 filler or .9 stainless mig wire for thin stainless work.

The unitig cost me about $1700 when I got it and with the stick hadpiece, dual flow meters and collet size change cost me abour $2300 all up. Well worth having kicking around for all the odd jobs I do.

Like Ivan, I have had plenty of HF shocks through the hands and legs and still get tingles from it.

[slingy88]

Hi,

I was after the same, and did much forum searching on the matter and a name that kept coming up for me was Token Tools.
They are chineese made (as is most stuff) but to an australian design. They have a shop in sydney and you can trial the machines i beleive if you take in your own scrap to weld. The owner is and electronics engineer and i believe had some design input into the machines and thus supply spares and repair in the shop.
I have to say, i'm very happy with it, great customer support, fast shipping and have recommended to many. Oh and my machine is 200A AC/DC, HF start, 2 & 4 stage start switch provisions for foot switch, pulse (really handy), up/down slope, post gas timer and came with collets and shields for 1.6, 2.0 and 2.4, stick handpiece and plasma torch for inbuilt 40A plasma cutter which i'm still getting used too. All for $1450 on special at the time.I think normal price is $1650

[kev@vcm]

Hi,

I was after the same, and did much forum searching on the matter and a name that kept coming up for me was Token Tools.
They are chineese made (as is most stuff) but to an australian design. They have a shop in sydney and you can trial the machines i beleive if you take in your own scrap to weld. The owner is and electronics engineer and i believe had some design input into the machines and thus supply spares and repair in the shop.
I have to say, i'm very happy with it, great customer support, fast shipping and have recommended to many. Oh and my machine is 200A AC/DC, HF start, 2 & 4 stage start switch provisions for foot switch, pulse (really handy), up/down slope, post gas timer and came with collets and shields for 1.6, 2.0 and 2.4, stick handpiece and plasma torch for inbuilt 40A plasma cutter which i'm still getting used too. All for $1450 on special at the time.I think normal price is $1650


thats excellent ok will check them out cheers heaps

[Deano]

Supergas have cig 200a ac/dc tigs on spec with pulse on dc as well as ac for $1500 or so. Would be my choice over anything above that has been discussed

[xa-mont]

THREAD DIG!!!

I'm going to buy myself a TIG in the imminent future (that way i can stop using works one all the time :P)

I will be welding mild stainless and aluminium.

The options as far as i see it is to either buy a smallish new machine, something like this:
http://justtools.com.au/cigweld-weldskill-200acadc-aluminium-inverter-plant-kit-w1006200

or getting a slightly older, more robust machine second hand, like this:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tig-Welder-Kemmpi-Master-Tig-2500-AC-DC-/201201458377?pt=AU_Welding&hash=item2ed88a9cc9

what would be the advantages and dissadvantages?

I have 3 ph power at home, so that isn't a big deal, it just means that i can't take the welder elsewhere and use it (i have a shitty little gasless mig that i could use for that kind of thing)

Will either be particularly better than the other in any way? the kemmpi is obviously still a fairly recent machine that has pulse and everything.

Cheers,
Trav

[Deano]

Kemmpi all the way. It won't be made in China the cig will.
It was probably a 5k machine when new.

[ozzy1100]

im with deano, i got a 2nd hand miller 300 dynasty from a welding repair and surply place for $2200 ($7500 new) including
miller foot pedal, new 8 mtr 26 air touch and a new 8mtr 50mm2 earth, all with a warranty. I have a small 160 amp dc tig
(6kg) that I take on sight. In saying that I know plenty of people running a 240v china tig with no prob but in the direction
your going trav might pay to step up

[Gitzy]

I got one of these at work Trav just to have a fiddle with and it does the trick, HF 200amp with ac and dc pulse, it was $1299..

http://razorweld.com/catalogue_product.asp?product=975&category=1&subcategory=1

I have used that Cigweld model and loved it also, I've never had anything to do with or used a Kemppi everything I've used for the last 10 years is a Lincoln love them too.