Quick Shift systems

[DCRacing]

Looking at putting a quick shift on the race bike, any ideas on what is a good one or setup to make one?
I am using a Dyna2000 ignition, i have the basics of an idea on how to make one, but i need it to be reliable.
Is there a good out of the box job?
Thanks

[DCRacing]

Got a price on a Translogic setup, $715 delivered........
I am sure i could make one as it is just a spark kill on a load sensor on the gear shift, needs to be a directional thing so it won't cut on the down shift

[BANDITROD]

If you managed to make one I would love to see a how guide on that mate

[Hagarr]

What bike you have?

[DCRacing]

A 1990 gixxer 7/11.
Its enought to hold up some fast guys on the track:D

[Hagarr]

Ah OK thought it might have been later model which could be programmed in the std ECU.

I'm using ECU Editor on the B-King with a load cell fitted to the shift rod that utilises the standard ECU, shutting fuel & Ign for a set time (which you can change)

[Redmohawk]

A programable timed switch from jacar switched by a load cell would do the trick if you just want to cut ign for a pre set time , assuming your shifting at about the same rpm in every upshift a simple timer circuit will do the trick. working out how long to shut down ign is a bit of guess work but if you know the rpm its easy enough to work out how many ignition fires are in a given time.

[Hagarr]

Bloody hell just remembered Mohawk just reminded me assuming your 750 is a six speed box I might have what you want i'll try and get a photo up with some details!

[DCRacing]

Yeah that would be good thanks Hagarr

and i was going to ask the resident electrical engineer, Red, for a bit of input.
I thought an adjustable timer or a delay box so that once the pedal is loaded it cuts the ign.
If it was adjustable it would make it easier to work out how long the cut needed to be to unload the box and up shift.
I was looking at using the brake switch on the old gixxers as the load switch then with the adjustable box for the timing on the engine kill, which would earth out 1 of the coils............. ummm i think i am making sense

I am thinking of full throttle up shifts and generally at or close to the same rpm each time. I was thinking of a timed earth out of the coil/coils but i don't know what sort of products are out there for this sort of thing

[Hagarr]

i'll have a look tonight in my collection of bits but I think from memory you have to cut in to the kill switch, anyways it comes with a wiring diagram.

[Redmohawk]

removing the earth (breaking the earth side of coil) is the easyest way to switch it, A circuit with variable timing isn't hard to find you will need a debounce circuit between the switch and the timing circuit so the timer doesn't trigger more than once as your bouncing along and trying to upshift.

[Redmohawk]

You could prob use a 555 timer chip (about $3) and a few components and a switching transistor to do the trick for about $10 I'll look into it tomorrow and let you know.

[Deano]

where is a cheap place to get the pressure sensor to put in the shift rod? i want flat shift on the turbo bike.

you got to love having a good ecu. it looks after everything like the time it kills for and the speed at witch the timing comes in at once the shift is completed to make the change as smooth as it can be so the triples to smack you in the head on up changes.

[Redmohawk]

A rear brake switch seems to be the most common switch used deano

[Hagarr]

where is a cheap place to get the pressure sensor to put in the shift rod? i want flat shift on the turbo bike.

you got to love having a good ecu. it looks after everything like the time it kills for and the speed at witch the timing comes in at once the shift is completed to make the change as smooth as it can be so the triples to smack you in the head on up changes.

Petes pitstop in QLD or go to boostbysmith.com they will make them up with the right tail to suit your gear indicator, I have one on the B-King which shuts fuel and Ign momentarily and is adjustable through the std ECU, but thats another story.

Flat Changes are Cool! Makes the engine note sound flat like a stroker. Only issue so far is being lazy and leaving your foot momentarily on the shifter can sometimes confuse you that its not working especially in the heat of the moment when you are really on it.

[Hagarr]

To explain, I run GP shift pattern (upside down) hence the foot can still momentarily be on the shifter.

[Redmohawk]

Found a nice little circuit from jacar today that should do the job nicley , will have a little play with it over the weekend and see how it goes. If its a goer I'll post up a how to for all. Advantage is all the parts will be in one box at jacar (well you will prob need a few extras ) but for around $15 in bits plus a rear brake switch you can get it all in a kit with instructions.

[DCRacing]

Thats good, i had thought it is not too difficult to make as it is a simple process for it to work, But i have no idea what parts are available, i could draw what i thought would work but it would have components like "adjustable timer delay thingy" and "switchy bit here" etc

[Redmohawk]

Ok started today (got distracted with a motard project though) Looks like the circuit I used from jacar will do the trick with some very simple swapping of a few components (also avalable at jacar) and the adittion of a few extra. Once I have it all working well enough I'll put up the picks of it all. Keep in mind I'm trying to keep this under $30 and simple enough for bikers with skun knuckels to put together (means it will be bigger than an off the shelf item mostly about 10 by 5 cm by 2cm thick) Once you've put one together if your interested in a compact version i'll show you how to shrink it down to about the same as 8 stack of 50 cent piece's .

[playswithnitro]

Good shit Red. Look forward to seeing it.

[BANDITROD]

Me too Red

[DCRacing]

Thanks red, it is good that someone whos knows what they are talking about can define some of these ideas......... Generally i just blabber shit until it sticks ;)

[DCRacing]

Thanks red, it is good that someone whos knows what they are talking about can define some of these ideas......... Generally i just blabber shit until it sticks <img class="inlineimg" title="Wink" border="0" alt="" src="images/smilies/wink.png" smilieid="4">

[Redmohawk]

DC sorry mate I have no idea , just throwing shit everywhere waiting for some to stick.

[latheboy]

I'm interested in this too.

Will you be able to turn it on and off for road and race? I don't want the ignition getting killed everytime i shift while just cruising around.

[Redmohawk]

Bypass switch is a given.

[playswithnitro]

How's it going Red?

[Redmohawk]

Seems people are keen lol getting there mate , will finish it wed prob . Photo's on the way.

[playswithnitro]

Good shit. Just in time for Christmas.

[Redmohawk]

Ok here goes. If your bike shits itself, you built it following some random dumb fucker on the net so deal with it ! Likley hood of doing any damage is prob fairly low though. Follow this at your own peril you mad bastards.

This circuit will switch the earth side of your bike, so it goes between the coil and your points on an old points type setup. Or the earth off your ignitor box (black with yellow stripe on GPX600) I went with this setup as its easyer to get cheap bits to build and being first timers (most of you with a circuit like this it's easyer) If your running a 4 cyl with two coils (as most bikes are we would be looking at) and you want to shut down one coil only the circuit can be put in the neg coil side between coil and ignitor box.

You will need to go to/use net/phone credit card from Jacar electronics for the kit the parts are avalable from other sorces but this is prob the easyest.

Kit number KJ- 8108 short circuits three kit - universal timer project 29 cost is $16.95 it doesnt come with detailed instructions if your a little electronic savy what is in the kit plus a little info from me will prob get you though. If your a first timer there is a book for the kit also for $14.95 Cat number BJ-8505 . The book will help but its for the kit so it will help a little but we're going to fuck with it a little. I'm happy to help if you'd rather not buy the book.

You will also need a few extra odds n ends starting with a new potentiometer you want a

linear 50k pot cat no RP-7516 cost $2.45

Resistors come in packs of about 8 you need a
10 ohm 1/2 watt pack $0.46 RR-0524
100 ohm 1/2 watt pack $0.46 RR-0548
330 ohm 1/2 watt pack $0.46 RR-0560
Capacitor 4.7 uF 63 volt $0.34 RE-6060

And finally you will need a transistor and a Automotive Mosfet to switch the power

transistor 2N2222a cat no ZT-2298 $0.35
Mosfet IRF1405n cat no ZT-2468 $6.95

You will also need a switch to bridge out this sucker so It can be defeated I used a cat no ST-0579 cost $5.95 its rated for 20 amps at 12 volts so well over what we need for the job. So all up your looking at about $35 and you'll have a few bits left over from the kit that you dont need and a few extra resistors fromt he packs you buy.

Once your done you should end up with something looking like this.

The white wire on the left of the board is +12 volts (best conected to kill switch or ignition)
The white wire on the right is the one to go to the ignitor box (on betty its a black with yellow stripe running from ignitor box to earth cut it the white wire goes to the box)

the brown one on the bottom right goes to earth .

Your switch setup (I'm going to use a brake switch off something laying about) is soldered to the back of the board behing the push button so when eather the button is pressed or the brake switch is activated it shorts out the contacts. That way both can be used to activate the unit (push button makes it easyer for testing)

Once you have your unit assembaled the easyest way to test it all works before you start chopping up your loom on the pride and joy is to use a battery and a test light. Test light goes between both white wires doesnt matter which way around then just put left wite wire on 12 volts postitive and brown on - ve (earth) slide switch to right and led light should light up and so should test light ! Press button and depending on where the knob is positioned on pot test light should go out from about half a second to a very quick blink. If all this happens and no smoke comes out you have made it correctly ! Congrats.

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/redmohawk1/Betty/21122011447.jpg

[Redmohawk]

close up

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/redmohawk1/Untitled.png

[Deano]

Ok super so does it work?

[Redmohawk]

the new parts added to the kit (the pot is a 50 k ohm unit instead of the 1 meg ohm that was in the kit)

http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/redmohawk1/2112201.jpg

[Redmohawk]

Ok mods, resistors are not polarity sensitive (can go eather way about)

1 is hole for 330 ohm resistor hole 2 is the other end of 330 ohm resistor

Shit the hole above 3 is the hole for the 10 ohm resistor hole 4 is other end

Hole 3 is for the 2n2222a left most leg (with the legs pointing down flat face to you)

5 is for 100 ohm resistor (replaces a bit of wire as a link)

hole 6 is for the left most wire on the IRF1504 mosfet (left wire with metal backing
plate pointing up and away from you so you can read the writing on the face)

hole 7 is one I drilled through board with a 2mm drill bit for the middle leg of the irf
mosfet it goes through and a wire also goes through the board in a spot where there
isnt any copper on the other side the wire is soldered to the mosfet to lock them
together and hole it in the board. Ignore the diode in the board there (I started
putting it together and was in my own world at the time , not needed) The wire is
connected to your bike on the coil side (in a points type bike) or the Ignitor box side
of the wire you cut on your bike.

Hole 8 is the right most leg of the 2n2222a (with flat side with writing facing you legs
down)

Hole 9 is a 2mm hole drilled right beside hole 8 so the right most leg of the IRF1504 can
go through also a short bit of wire to link too hole 10 and also a second wire (the wire
that connects to your bike at eather points side or earth side of ignitor box) of the
wire you cut to control your bike.

the 12 volts dc hole near the diode (black thing with a grey painted strip one end) is
the power wire this would be best conected to the switched positive on your kill
switch or ignition switch.

There is one last hole I forgot to mark on the pic its the one directly above the right
hole in the number 5 resistor bottom of the 10k resistor box marked on the board in
white paint, slightly to the left of hole 8 it is for the middle leg of the 2n2222a .

The 4.7 uf capacitor replaces two from the kit goes in the holes marked C1 on the
board It is polarity sensitive just like a bike battery it has a positive and neg the neg
lead is usally marked on the side of the cap just put it in the hole without a plus on it
and the other can only go in one spot.

The board needs two tracks of copper cut on the back to finish the deal.
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/redmohawk1/21122011444.jpg

[Redmohawk]

Ok 1 is where you cut the first bit of track it is the track between hole 4 and hole 3 on the previous photo

2 is the second bit of track you need to cut , its between the hole the center leg of 2n2222a goes into and holes 8 and 9 the black lines represent where the track was before it was cut. I used a stanly knife cut across both ends and then used the knife to lift the track off the board.

The photo's not real clear I know but hey its late I'm pissed and about had enough.

Number 3 is where hole 8 and 9 are all the componet legs and wires are soldered together both left leg of the 2n2222a and left leg of mosfet IRF1504 plus the link wire and the wire for the earth side.

Number 4 is the hole I drilled in the board that goes no where , it has the middle leg of the mosfet and the wire joined together (it looks like they are joined to a track in the photo but there not , about 2mm away from the closest track)
http://i1133.photobucket.com/albums/m591/redmohawk1/21122011450.jpg

[BANDITROD]

You are my favorite Ginger Adam and that is the best ms paint pics ever lol ...good job old chap I am gunna have a crack at that

[Redmohawk]

Deano , does with a test light ! Who knows on a bike I'm not silly enough to test it atm lol Its late bed time very soon .

[Redmohawk]

Rod to tired to give a fuck atm , 12 hour days 4 days a week suck bring on xmas hols !

[BANDITROD]

Well go have a well earned break mate you did done good

[Deano]

Rod to tired to give a fuck atm , 12 hour days 4 days a week suck bring on xmas hols !

Wow you really were putting in huge hours getting this thing sorted out��
So I assume the unit is adjustable for kill time?

[Redmohawk]

12 hour day is my normal working day mate, mon to thur fri I only do 8 lol The little unit only took about an hour to put together including the mods/scrtching my ass n head a bit etc. Yeah its adjustable just turn the pot , slowest time is about half a second (far to long but makes it easy to see the unit is working) turn the pot to the other extent of its throw and it will currently go down too 0.047 sec which is prob still a little slow)

Replacing the 9.1 k ohm resistor at the top of the board with a 2 k ohm resistor will drop this shortest time to 0.01 seconds prob a better shortest time figure as most off the shelf units go down to 20 ms !

[playswithnitro]

Bloody well done.

Most air shifters work with between 40 and 60ms of kill-time.

I'd suggest starting off with a longer kill-time and working down from there. If it gets hard to shift gears, add more kill time.

If the box is shifting happily but you have backfires out the exhaust, try shortening the kill-time.

On EFI bikes you could kill power to the injectors but then you might as well go and buy a PCIII and google quickshifters & PCIII

Thanks Red. Your electronics skills are way above my skill level.

[Redmohawk]

Air shifters are usally a little slower as they have to wait for the air to come up to pressure in the actuator. They generally have a two delay function the first is for the pressure to increase in the acuator the second is the fuel/and or ignition delay. In this arrangment your already putting some pressure on the gear selector drum when the circuit is triggered (setup of sensor gear lever position etc yet to be put up on site) as its not on bike yet lol So ignition delay is a little diferent but close enough to play.

[DCRacing]

Awesome Red, thanks for putting in the effort to get this up, i just need to get out and put it together now...........
I might put it into a plastic bag tho, so i can use it in the wet weather as well lol

[Redmohawk]

Hold off a little while if you can , just bought all the bits indevidually with a type of circuit board called Vero board (is a proto typing board) Will be making a much smaller setup and will pot the whole setup in epoxy once done will be about the size of a matchbox. Will post up a more comprahensive how to for it, prob work out a little bit cheaper than using the kit especally if your making more than one. The parts just happen to be very similar to another circuit I promised to make for ASF crew that makes an electric fence with some real kick lol

[Hagarr]

Looking at putting a quick shift on the race bike, any ideas on what is a good one or setup to make one?
I am using a Dyna2000 ignition, i have the basics of an idea on how to make one, but i need it to be reliable.
Is there a good out of the box job?
Thanks

Haven't forgotten you, have been on the couch the last couple of days with a bung knee, can't move around too good.

once I'm up and about proper I'll send some info.

:mad:

[Hagarr]

Haven't forgotten you, have been on the couch the last couple of days with a bung knee, can't move around too good.

once I'm up and about proper I'll send some info.

:mad:

Phew that was a while, I have found the Shifter are you still interested?

I understand if you don't sorry for the delay!

unfortunately since this bucket photo thing has occurred I don't know how to upload photo's so if you would like me to send a photo give me your mobile and I'll have the missus iphone to you for me.