Frame repairs......

[BillyWhizz888]

Old topic, cant find it to refresh memories

Latest news in from Victoris / Bob Martin Engineering

OK.. I know this is a resurection from hell............

This is whats happening over in Victoria

I have just had a phone call from Bob Martin Engineering
http://www.bobmartinengineering.com/home_Intro.htm
03 9758 4738
bobmartin@bigpond.com

Steve Martin has informed me of the latest volley from the government in regards to frame repairs
Aluminium frames
ANY dents in frame = frame condemmed
Any repairs to frame - frame condemmed
Steel / other frames
Any repairs to frame - frame condemmed

Bike dealerships / other have been instructed that on no accopunt are any frames allowed to under go repairs
insurance companies have been instructed to condem all bikes that are in need of frame repairs

This is not in WA (YET)

But the chances of it filtering through are more than probable

anyone think insurance costs may rise?

Bob Martin Engineering
"Bob Martin Motorcycle Engineering was established in 1972. Bob's engineering skills have seen BME grow over the past 30 years, to become one of Australia's most sought after motorcycle engineering specialists. Specializing in repairs and modifications to all makes and models. Our frame building and construction have developed from Bob's early days as a sidecar racer when he built his own frames that were among the best in the Australasia. BME frames have been credited with wins at Bathurst during their 20 year involvement.
The company has now been handed to Bob's son Steve Martin, who along with an experienced team, continue to deliver BME's innovative, excellent standards"

This company is closing its doors in October 2007 because of this legislation and all personnel will cease to be employed at this company...
this is sad news, but such that is going to affect many more people

I suppose the only good side of this, is Steve Martin intends to come to WA, his knowledge and skill is coming with him

He will be looking for work, and no doubt involvement in the motorcycling scene in WA

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED PEOPLE.......

[fimpBIKES]

does this include straightening?
cos brand new bikes arent straight, so its not really a repair if u take a brand new bike and get it tweaked is it?

[latheboy]

Shit house .. Would that include sub frame mods do you think .. its not a repair as such

[alfiestorm]

Thats open to interpretation isn't it.

[Gix11]

Oh dear. Subframes. We just went deeper under the radar.

Where about is there more info on this subject and which states are effected currently?

[fimpBIKES]

fuck, if it includes subframes (bolt-on ones i mean)
then wouldnt it also include other bolt-on chassis parts like triple-clamps and rearsets?! [:O]

[Iceman]

Looks like streetfighters are gunna be outlawed then. Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

[Gix11]

Bollox to that.

[fimpBIKES]

pfft, so does anyone wanna start up a small volume motorcycle company with me
custom chassis, individually constructed EVERYTHING :D

[chopaweeza]

Actually Fimp , there are several around just like that already. And, we are backlogged with work. The same legislation is on the boards for NSW & Qld as well. From what I understand, the subframe is considered to be a seperate bolt on piece for the terms of the legislation. But, that could easily change. With owner constructed frames they get arround alot of the latest round of crap but you pay through the nose for the privilege . They are moving towards eliminating non-stock bikes and eliminating the aftermarket & wrecking businesses. They have been for a while.

[fimpBIKES]

no doubt, so say in theory that i had the design know-how and practical skills and equipment to make a cromo trellis frame for say a TL1000R...

how hard would it be for a backyard builder to do
i would i have to be a registered framemaker with some sort of trade?

[BillyWhizz888]

Lads, a I know is what Steve told me

I have not had a chance to go in search of info yet

if you find it, post it, cos its going to affect us all in the end

[gibbo]

Steve must be pissed off as they have spent a fair bit of money at the factory building offices and a showroom, have not been there for a while, might pay a visit.

[TurboKat]

Who the fuck is gunna straighten my frames now [?][?][?]
Fucking politicians - kill 'em all I reckon [}:)]
ANARCHY IS THE WAY OF THE FUTURE.

[fimpBIKES]

so, just to clarify
is there anyone in NSW who will straighten my frame for me?

i dont care if its on the sly, just want a tru-chassis

[BillyWhizz888]

Wanna hear more good news.....

Some tart in Qld found the motorcycle air bag site.. yes way
http://www.motoair.com/
she is also the one who is promoting crash helmets in cars

Way to go girl.... and remember Qld were the ones to put in place the
"you cant have a bike licence until you have had a car for a year" rule, yes all this excitement coming from a parliament house near you

Info from MRA...
if ya not in it.. join it! at least you get to know they are gonna fcuk you over in advance! :(

[alfiestorm]

fuggin e'll been through all this shit in the uk once already not again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[BillyWhizz888]

I was in the MAG & the BMF, been there screamed that

trouble is in this country, it only takes an idea from some idiot to be researced and put forward, if no one knows whats going on, no one can stop it

I know many people are not for the MRA, old foggies ect
but if enough younger people join you can change the way they approach things, do things and what is said on your behalf

WA is moving forward all be it slowly....

[fimpBIKES]

well the way i see it the gov doesnt give a fuck anyway,
they are STILL installing those cheesegraters and i see newly done roadworks all the time and roadside furniture is still as deadly as ever!

fuck it, my bikes illegal now anyways

maybe i should make disposalable fighters so if they impound u just shrug, laff at their faces and go assemble a new one overnight :D

[Jockney Rebel]

methinks maybe the manufacturers have been lobbying the govt.??

[Jockney Rebel]

listen if they legislate let them[}:)]..then we ll just find a way round it which is what we ve been doing since the year dot :)

anyway the legislation will soon get so complicated that yer average bike dealer wont be able to understand it without a lawyer

[Jockney Rebel]

..also it ll mean a lot more bikes getting written off for minor damage a glut of late spares and the prices of good 2nd hand bikes going up

[ozkat]

Most of the bikes on here dont comply to ADRs and stuff like that anyway, i dont know what your worried about.

[Docktor]

Ummm, At the risk of gettin flamed ???. I am sorry turbo cant get his frame straightened, (someone somewhere will do it on the sly.) But wont this stop the wankers buying a trashed bike at the auction for a frame and or motor, then openin your garage and pinchin your bike and slappin all your shit on the auction frame. Presto = 1 R1 or Gix1K for like 4 grand. ???.
And wont this flood the market with lotsa parts who dont have frames to live in ?? That means cheap and freely available parts for our fighters, and lets face it, fuck em, we are gunna hack and chop in our own garages be they like it or not?,. well I am, be it a car or a bike. Most fighters cant be insured, because of mods , so chances of them touchin a insurance claim and being taken off the road permanently is minimal... but I might stock up on a spare gixxa frame to be sure........ Mt guess frame prices up and parts prices down..... Ok, You can call me sumb now...... I guess I am missing the point ?

[sharky]

I reckon Frank,Dok and Oz have got the right idea.
But at the same time I reckon we should fight it 'cos if it goes through whats next ??????

[Large]

If you tolerate this...then your children will be next!

[fimpBIKES]

yeah, but no more of this kinda fighter build :(


http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/485383379135899.jpg

[sharky]

Why not ? There are plenty of bikes out there getting stuffed but not going on the register, such as track day crashes. The insurance company won't pay out for that so they don't tell them. They then break and sell the bike for spares....we buy them and find someone to fix 'em.
There's always a way around it...we just have to get 'creative'

For example, In the club I was with in the uk there were loads of gsxr's in custom frames, with frame numbers from 1970's hondas !!
Road Tax exempt too. My FJ12 custom frame was reg'd as a RD350LC frame with an engine swap to 1200 ;)

[chopaweeza]

It's a very complicated set of laws. Very complicated. As for making a CroMo trellis, CM is a pain to work, a pain to weld and most Certifying Engineers won't touch it with a barge pole. Those that will charge like wounded bulls , do xray and alot of other tests and generally need to see the welders ticket from the guy that did it. I avoid it for mine. I use CDS2(preferred but nearly impossible to get) or CDW for all my frames now. In NSW you can build/modify 4 frames a year while being classed as a Hobbyist. Now, to be classified as a registered frame builder is a different matter. As you can issue MSO's (Manufacturer's Statement of Origin)it's a long , expensive and drawn out process to get it done. But, as a frame builder(technically a hobbyist even though I've built/alterred 5 frames to year so far) and as a member of the Chopper Builders I know the way arround most of the bogus rules. Must be doing OK as none of the frames I've ever built have never had a problem when the frame gets accessed for Engineer's

[fimpBIKES]

hmmm, interesting

thanks again uncle chop


i woulda built it out of cold-drawn seamless anyways first to make sure it all worked ok and everything fit

good fun anyways, i guess it night just force an evolution :D



so would this apply to mono-shocking old frames like my kat?

[Jockney Rebel]

fimp ..probably..
sharky ..ur right we should fight it or theyll think we re pushovers ..
i still believe theres always a way round stuff like this
after all half the fun of what we do is about getting creative
i mean noone would deliberatly make an unsafe bike then ride it...

[chopaweeza]

The Trellis frames that Ducati made for example are made out of plain "black" steel that can be bought at any hardware store. The design is such that you could almost make them out of curtain rods and still have it work. But thats only because of the bridgework design. If I was going to make a Trellis I'd use thinner wall CDW than I normally use(probably 2.0mm wall)for a number of reasons. The first is price, the second is CDW doesn't require specialised processes & can be MIG'd easily and flex. By making a specialised frame jig(not as hard as it sounds), having a decent MIG or TIG and a Tube Notcher a Trellis out of CDS2 or CDW is achievable. As for the NSW Engineer Certification and how this applies . For CDW or CDS2 frames the welder does not have to be a certified Boiller Maker or Welder . The welds have to be "sound" and have good penetration. When using Chrome Moly they require that the welder have a Boiller Makers Certificate/Welders Cerificate , at least 5 years experience with CM and have the frame tested to within an inch of it's life. Doing it yourself you could build a Trellis out of CDW for about a grand and have it Certified for about $1800-2500 . Now, to make one out of Chrome Moly will cost you up to $10k unless you have the trade certificates mentioned(then about $2000-3000)and up to $8000 to get passed. If you want to learn how to build frames there are several of us around that can show you if you have a genuine interest in learning it. At the moment I'm converting a 70's Santee frame to take a GSXR mono shock & running gear for example.

Now, as for the new laws. I did a bit of snooping around and found the reasoning behind these & why NSW & Qld are looking at adopting them. They justify it as a means of stopping vehicle rebirthing. Anyone thats ever been to a bike auction would notice the err um , Lebanese , chaps in the background that bid like mad on high value bikes and these are the people they claim this law stops. Go figure. Those types will find a way around the laws regardless and as usual it will only make it more difficult for the rest of us. Short sighted laws that have wide ranging effects. Fight or die as they say.

[fimpBIKES]

thanks chop, thats great news


i would probably use similar material to this
it was 1"x2.5mm tube, i built it (just the chassis, that was my pet lil project)
i designed the chassis and jigs, built all the jigs, figured out the notching angles and had a hand in every part of the build
(i was pretty much sleeping in the workshop!!!)
only things i didnt do was the mandrel bending (paid $15 and the final welding


this is all very re-assuring stuff to hear chop

so for my couple of grand, am i paying to get the vehicle passed or just the chassis?

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/485384813203047.jpg

[chopaweeza]

To get the vehicle passed mate. But, there are tricks that make getting passed alot simpler. For example, I recommend that the owner doesn't paint the frame or re-touch the welds. That way the Engineer can see with the naked eye what they otherwise would need a couple of grands worth of Xrays to see. As a side bonus, you aren't damaging the paint when they stamp a new VIN into it. Designing a frame for a bike is complex until you've done it a dozen times and had to build those abstract ideas . When I'm unsure of a design or of a design aspect I make a template piece out of black water pipe first. But, generally, as alot of what I now do is just variations on previous designs I can quote the specs of angles/measurements on most of the frames I've ever built. Thats something that comes with experience however. As a first I'd recommend doing a copy of an existing frame before doing a complex re-think of something else. With variations for engine and running gear. Frame design is a series of compromises but many of the mainstream manufacturers seem to get the softer choices in design. For example, I'm designing a frame for a customer who wants a Manx Norton style with a GSXR1000 engine/rolling gear and getting the right compromise between strength, style & handling is a difficult one. But, I'll give you a hand if you like and help guide you through it if thats what you want to do.

[fimpBIKES]

cheers,

i wouldnt doing anything too nuts to start with
probably a very slightly raked out TLR frame using stock swinger and the same suspension & engine mount points

good fun :D wouldnt be til well into next year though