Closed loop FI tunning a reality

[Stocky]

That's right.

A custom map for your fuel injected bike as you ride.

I've spent some time setting this unit up and I got it running this afternoon [:p]

It's a prototype so it's not comercially available yet but it's not far off being a reality.

It works a bit like a powercommander does in that it intercepts the signals to the injectors and modifies them to change the amount of fuel delivered at given rpm and throttle position.

The BIG difference is that it runs it's own Wide Band Lambda sensor and it works fast enough to collate this infomation with the throttle position, RPM and a bunch of other things too.

It's not quite that simple but that's the jist of it.

It monitors other things like engine coolant temp and gear position and it evolves the mapping over time with a truck load of data.

There is a whole bunch of other "conditions" to allow self mapping and some very complex and clever control stratergy involved.

It's been run on a fair few bikes now for more than 3 years so it's quite well tested too.

I'm in the process of varifying the opertation with an independant data logger also.

Still got some more testing and some improvments to make but so far I'm mega impressed.

You can put your own target A/F ratios in a map and it tunes to the targets.

It's also got more throttle position and RPM cells than other typical FI units so the resolution is excellent.

It also has a built in data logger and a Suzuki top speed eliminator built in that doesn't ruin your gear position display on the dash.

I'm sure there will be a bunch of questions (and maybe some BS) so fire away....
;)
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/99867007074392.JPG

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/99867007059797.JPG

[ozzy1100]

that is a very nice unit stocky very well thought out ,would get a shit load better milage
is it a stock stye o2 sencer ,2wire 3 or 4
ps that davis grag controler are you useing the water pump or just controling the fan speed

[Docktor]

OK> Here is a bit of both for ya... Buell runs a closed loop signal whick sucks dead dingos dongers incidently. Does it work on twins as well as 4 bangers ?. Is it able to be boost referenced or just TPI ? And can I have one to blow up ?

[Stocky]

It's nothing like the Buell (or other OEM) one.

The factory closed loop is only narrow band lambda and it only works at small steady state throttle.

It also targets an A/F ratio required for low emmissions.(unless you have a "tuneboy")

The unit I have works at all throttle positions and RPM.

It can target what ever A/F ratio you tell it to so you can have your cruising throttle positions lean and economical and your 100% fat for full power etc.

It doesn't do MAP sensor yet. YET

There is demand for it to ba able to do turbo/supercharged engines so it's something that might be available soon.

The Davies Craig controller is for my (electric) water pump.

[Booster]

Nice.
Does it include a wideband controller or interact with a 0-5v signal?and does it have an independant map sensor or is this the soon to be available feature?
What safegards are there to stop it chasing a fuel or plug issue not related to tune.
On my tuneboy you can set a range eg:10% max adjust even them trims have to be accepted before committing to main table.

[Stocky]

Yes it includes a wide band sensor.

It runs the sensor it self.

It only evolves the map so it doesn't react too quick.

It also only saves the changes if you turn the engine off at the handle bar and leave the ignition on for 5sec.

So If you ride and it's not running properly you just turn it off at the key and it doesn't modify the basic map.

It doesn't do MAP yet and I'm not sure if it'll run it's own or monitor the stock one.

It also runs 2 maps and 2 target A/F tables. So you can set it up for economy and power etc.

[Jockney Rebel]

will it work on a triple ???? i know bugger all about FI except that it needs a computer thats faster than the pre war thing im typin this on

[Stocky]

Yes it'll work on anything up to 4 cylinders.

Just on the thought of it chasing a bad plug or something..... you can turn the tunning on and off. You can turn the wide band on and off etc.

So when you are condifent the bike is runing well you let it custom map it self until you are happy with the tune.

Then you can turn off the wide band sensor and remove it. (can't leave it in the pipe when you are not using it)

Then next time you change something (pipe, filter, cams whatever) you put it back in until it's retuned and pull it back out again.

Then there is no chance it'll chase the wrong tune if you develop a problem.

[Stocky]

UPDATE -

Took the bike for it's first good ride with the unit fitted today.

Got a fair bit of mapping done.

First impressions - SENSATIONAL

In one ride it's already better than a custom mapped PC3usb.

When I left home with a 0 map in it it was pretty average to ride.

Buy the time I pulled up for fuel it was already ok to ride around town.

Buy the time I got to 20mins of riding out of town on it there is a felling and sound from the engine that is simply amazing.

In all the areas I've spent some time (throttle pos and RPM) the response and running of the engine are by far the best it's ever been.

The sound and response is amazing.

Sooooo clean , soooo smooth.

In case you hadn't picked up on it, I'm really impressed.

I've still got to spend some time getting the target A/F best for all different conditions and verify the A/F with the data logger so it'll get better yet.

I'm thinking I'll add EGT sensors to each header pipe next and check that all the cylinders are even temps and then I can chase the best power at all different conditions.

There is a bit of work to do to make this a more "plug and play" unit too.

I'll try and post up some screen shots of the mapping and the logs from the rides soon.

;)

[motty]

Thanks for the review, Stocky.

If somebody is interested in the technical details, then you can find the user manual here:
http://www.kolumbus.fi/motty/AfrTuner/temp/UserManual.pdf

[Benz]

How long before I can fit one to my Geep turbo??? The computer in it runs on coal!

[Johnnie5]

looks the goods

how would you go making a custom injection system on a carb bike ?

[Stocky]

It would be very good for that, you could use a similar capacity injected bike wiring loom and ECU then the unit would correct all the tunning for you.

You'd be very unlucky if it was out of the range of the adjustment.

Obviously it's no guarantee but it beats the hell out of a tonne of custom tunning.

[zx12argh]

Hey stocky - any idea on costs - someone other then your self getting there hands on this system... Its no good being a tease mate ;) - At some stage I was looking at a PC3 and dyno time for the 12r but if this is everything you reckon it is...

[Slain]

its been a long day at work so im not following 100%, so this 'auto tunes' itself?
if so same as zx12argh
was getting a pc3 soon then got done by the cops but stuff it, you can never have enough power

[motty]

About using it on an FI converted carburated bike, as Stocky said, the easiest way is to install a complete FI system from another bike. Then you have to manually get the mapping close enough that the engine runs everywhere in RPM range with all throttle settings. Once this is done, then you can enable the self mapping and it will tune the bike according to your target AFR map.

About the ZX12R, so far the AFR Tuner was tested only on GSXRs, so I can't guaranty that it works on a ZX12, but most probably it would. If there is a downloadable service manual for the bike then I can check if the electrical system is compatible. The ZX10R seems compatible and I'm planning to find a ZX10R and install it myself on one to verify it.

[Booster]

Hardwired or plugin ?

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by motty
About the ZX12R, so far the AFR Tuner was tested only on GSXRs, so I can't guaranty that it works on a ZX12, but most probably it would. If there is a downloadable service manual for the bike then I can check if the electrical system is compatible. The ZX10R seems compatible and I'm planning to find a ZX10R and install it myself on one to verify it.


I've got a zx12r service manual - let me know if you are interested - its about 112mb but i cna probably cut it down or find a host site for the file.

[motty]

Hi,

Thanks. Could you upload it to my FTP server, please?

IP address: 88.113.21.138
Username: zx12
Password: zx12

Thanks.


quote:Originally posted by zx12argh
I've got a zx12r service manual - let me know if you are interested - its about 112mb but i cna probably cut it down or find a host site for the file.

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by motty

Hi,

Thanks. Could you upload it to my FTP server, please?

IP address: 88.113.21.138
Username: zx12
Password: zx12

Thanks.


quote:Originally posted by zx12argh
I've got a zx12r service manual - let me know if you are interested - its about 112mb but i cna probably cut it down or find a host site for the file.



No worries mate - upload is in progress :D

[motty]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh
No worries mate - upload is in progress :D


Thanks. Got it.

I took a very quick look. So far it seems that the most important signals are available. The gear position data to the ECU is different, so that will not work and the coolant temperature will require changing the conversion in the firmware.

I will check it much more thoroughly later.

Thanks again.

[Stocky]

quote:Originally posted by Slain

its been a long day at work so im not following 100%, so this 'auto tunes' itself?
if so same as zx12argh
was getting a pc3 soon then got done by the cops but stuff it, you can never have enough power


The short answer is ..... YEP :D

[sharky]

Oi loiks me carbies [:o)]

Seriously though looks like some clever work....if I could understand any of it [:I]

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by motty


quote:Originally posted by zx12argh
No worries mate - upload is in progress :D


Thanks. Got it.

I took a very quick look. So far it seems that the most important signals are available. The gear position data to the ECU is different, so that will not work and the coolant temperature will require changing the conversion in the firmware.

I will check it much more thoroughly later.

Thanks again.


No worries mate. Keep me posted - this sounds like fun :D

[motty]

Checked it yesterday, just forgot to post the update. Other than the gear position input everything else should work (some firmware updates will be necessary for Kawasakis).

[ozkat]

Hey motty, if you go here www.dragbike.com.au there will be quiet a few blokes there interested in what your doing.

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by motty


Checked it yesterday, just forgot to post the update. Other than the gear position input everything else should work (some firmware updates will be necessary for Kawasakis).



Cool - so whats the wait on getting one for my 12r ;)

[motty]

quote:Originally posted by ozkat

Hey motty, if you go here www.dragbike.com.au there will be quiet a few blokes there interested in what your doing.


Thanks. There aren't that many units available right now, but after the real production starts I can post info there too.

[motty]

quote:Originally posted by zx12argh
Cool - so whats the wait on getting one for my 12r ;)


I think it would be better if I tested the AFR Tuner on a Kawasaki first. Even if it is almost certain that it would work, sending it to the opposite side of Earth for a new model is risky.

[zx12argh]

quote:Originally posted by motty


quote:Originally posted by zx12argh
Cool - so whats the wait on getting one for my 12r ;)


I think it would be better if I tested the AFR Tuner on a Kawasaki first. Even if it is almost certain that it would work, sending it to the opposite side of Earth for a new model is risky.


Ah - I take it your not an Aussie then mate ;) - No worries mate. I'm actually in a huge rush - there's a million things I have to do before I get to the electrics on my bike... Probably the first thing I should do is actually start work on the thing :D

[JHONNYNINJA]

HI MOTTY,THISJHONNYNINJA,J AM INTERETING ON YOUR SPECIAL CLOSE LOOP ECU FOR SUZUKI GSXR 1000 K5 AND K2,PLEASE LET ME HAVE YOUR FHONE NUMBER AND E/O YOUR PERSONAL E-MAIL,J NEED TO HAVE MORE INFORMATIONS AND POSSIBLE BUY SOME UNITS.THANK YOU

[jakam04]

quote:Originally posted by JHONNYNINJA

HI MOTTY,THISJHONNYNINJA,J AM INTERETING ON YOUR SPECIAL CLOSE LOOP ECU FOR SUZUKI GSXR 1000 K5 AND K2,PLEASE LET ME HAVE YOUR FHONE NUMBER AND E/O YOUR PERSONAL E-MAIL,J NEED TO HAVE MORE INFORMATIONS AND POSSIBLE BUY SOME UNITS.THANK YOU



Hold your fucking horses there Johnny Boy...

Firstly, who the fuck are you (as you were fucking rude enough not to introduce yourself)

Secondly, cut the crap with the capital letters.. (thats the equivalent of shouting)....

Yeah I can understand that Motty and Stocky are onto something good and your excited... but dont just rush through the door of someone elses place without due respect and courtesy.

Jarrod:(

[ozzy1100]

go jarrod
looks like you have taken up the post of telling rude
people 2 get fucked lol good work

[motty]

quote:Originally posted by JHONNYNINJA

HI MOTTY,THISJHONNYNINJA,J AM INTERETING ON YOUR SPECIAL CLOSE LOOP ECU FOR SUZUKI GSXR 1000 K5 AND K2,PLEASE LET ME HAVE YOUR FHONE NUMBER AND E/O YOUR PERSONAL E-MAIL,J NEED TO HAVE MORE INFORMATIONS AND POSSIBLE BUY SOME UNITS.THANK YOU


My email address is "motty at kolumbus.fi". I guess you know how to write it so that it works.

[zx12argh]

Look out - he's a ninja. He might just try a stealth kill. Tho if he really were a ninja he'd have the units by now and you'd never know...

[motty]

For those of you who were interested, http://www.afrtuner.com is finally online.