The NEW Rotary Norton race bike [Archive]

Spondonash

04-03-2007, 02:18 PM

The Norton Rotaries of the 80's and 90's were reliable well made bikes but were built in tiny numbers which meant they were expensive for what they were. The components were absolutely first class including the Spondon frame, WP forks and rear suspension, PFM wheels etc. They are an absolute joy to ride and would still hold their own against any of the generic Jap bikes. Britain has a long and allustrious history of engineering and thankfully in Triumph we see that tradition well and truly be upheld.
The 'new' Norton Rotary has nothing really to do with Norton Motors and is built by the former rotary guru Brian Crighton.
I have the bare bones of a Norton road bike which just needs numerous hours work to put it together ;)I also have the Harris rotary Ron Haslam rode in the 1991 British GP, I did have a Spondon framed rotary race bike that Steve Spray won the 1989 British Championship on but it has been sold and returned to the UK.
There is an enormous amount of ignorance and misinformation surrounding the Nortons unfortunately.

Spondonash

04-03-2007, 02:21 PM

quote:
chalk
There was not much if anything that could touch it on the track that is why it was banned from the races it was too fast for it's size? apparently [8D]

It was never banned from racing, it wasn't allowed to race in the USA but that was no big deal. The only reason it stopped racing is that Norton basically stopped trading.

Jockney Rebel

04-03-2007, 03:11 PM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

It was never banned from racing, it wasn't allowed to race in the USA but that was no big deal. The only reason it stopped racing is that Norton basically stopped trading.

chalk
There was not much if anything that could touch it on the track that is why it was banned from the races it was too fast for it's size? apparently [8D]
[/quote]
[/quote]wasnt there a big hoo ha about its capacity i seem to remember?
i met some of the 94 team [where the pic was taken in chatham in kent] and they told me the bike was streets ahead in performance compared to the competition..id love to see a british built bike do well on the track again and as for commandos being behind in the 70's of course thats true we all know the british bike industry was caught with its pants down but due to mismanagment as usual not lack of inventivness [just like the car industry later on]
the phylosophy is all wrong the japs find out what the market wants and then build it ,whereas the brits management said we ll build it then u try to sell it
depending a lot on customer loyalty,u only have to look at some of the half arsed ideas NVT came out with in the late 70"s

04-03-2007, 03:26 PM

Personally I'd rather see Triumph back on the track, competitively. As I said earlier they are producing real world bikes, not exotica ala the current and former Norton Rotaries.
If I was into race track specials I wouldn't be here, I'd be off chatting to the newbies, wannabe's and just plain twats on OSB.
I woulda thought much the same with you Franken, let's face it our choice of machines will never be seen on race tracks again (except for granddad racing) but with our personal attention they are competitive machines out along the Putty Rd, or Thunderbolt's Way.

Large

04-03-2007, 03:52 PM

I was at the Eurolantic Challenge (became the WSBK) at Brands Hatch in 1988 and saw the Nortons run.

I seem to remember they were fucking loud[8D]

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/31136614564465.jpg

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/31136614555181.jpg

Large

04-03-2007, 04:05 PM

Also saw Rocket Ron and himself

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/31136614564905.jpg

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/31136614557702.jpg

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/31136614544071.jpg

greg mulligan

04-03-2007, 05:58 PM

the JPS nortons that robert dunlop rode in 89/90 iom and northwest 200 along with other irish road races have to have been the best bikes ever built.

Spondonash

04-03-2007, 08:53 PM

Yeah I agree :D

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/31136655278314.jpg

Jockney Rebel

04-03-2007, 09:43 PM

quote:Originally posted by chalk10

Personally I'd rather see Triumph back on the track, competitively. As I said earlier they are producing real world bikes, not exotica ala the current and former Norton Rotaries.
If I was into race track specials I wouldn't be here, I'd be off chatting to the newbies, wannabe's and just plain twats on OSB.
I woulda thought much the same with you Franken, let's face it our choice of machines will never be seen on race tracks again (except for granddad racing) but with our personal attention they are competitive machines out along the Putty Rd, or Thunderbolt's Way.
good point ..i guess my interest is borne out of patriotism,and frustration at an industry that i enjoyed being part of i still consider had/has a lot to offer...having said that i have a great deal of respect for the japanese motor industry and what they ve acheived in the last 50 yrs.
2 things that impress me about them
first the word for copy and the word for learn are the same word in their language,secondly throughout their culture they master the known quantities of a given subject till they are second nature then improve and develop them..
what frustrates me about western culture, british in particularm,is that we have the same drive and innovative minds yet getting backing for these ideas is virtually impossible i site these previously ridiculed examples,,the wind up radio,dyson vacuum cleaners,or less modern the telephone ,television etc
i ride the bike i ride because its grass roots and has character its not sterile in my mind but has scope for improvement,its cheap and spares are relativly common,[8D]
if i was into cars id be driving an old MG or TRIUMPH yes these can be outrun by a modern hatchback but that for me is not what its all about.:)
ill shut up now ranting on:D

HOS

05-03-2007, 03:26 AM

From what I can remember from the time the Norton rotarys were racing, there was a serious question about what the engine capacity was. Depending on where the rotor is it gives different engine capacities. This was the arguement used against Norton with the regulators by other competitors.
The larger capacity within the engine was outside the allowable for the race series. The arguement about which capacity should be used or how it should be measured in the rotary engine went on for months !
Whether that was what excluded them from racing I cannot remember.
But the capacity issue was debated very heatedly.

Alongside the new Norton in the photos are just about all of the Norton race bikes.
The location is the National Motorcycle Museum in Birmingham UK,
where I go at least 1/2 a dozen times each year to stare and often reflect at what we have lost over the years.

My Father who died last year was a Director for James and later Velocette in Birmingham up until 1960 when the British motorcycle industry was drawings its final breaths. He was offered a Directorship of the ACU at the time but rejected it as it meant relocating to the south east of England which he didnt want to do.

We made 90% of the worlds motorcycles in those years, Birmingham was the motorcycle capital of the world !!

And yes I`m a Brummie lad and a true Brit.... chuffing proud of it.

HOS

05-03-2007, 03:37 AM

My old Dad who was still riding a 1955 Vincent the year he passed on knew what killed the British bike industry and no it wasnt "just" the influx of the new Japanese bikes..... it was the industries failure to invest in its own industry and its own product.
Too little too late.
Which has been the ongoing theme for British industry for the last 40 years resulting in the crap we have now.

I remember the last Meriden Triumphs in about 1977 and they were utter rubbish.

If it wasnt for one mans dream "John Bloor" Triumph would never ever be what it is today. God bless that man !!!!

I will have a new Triumph because its a Triumph. No matter if half of it is made around the world (as all cars and bikes) I will still own and ride one with fugging pride ! Because its British.

Speed Triple please ? :)

Spondonash

05-03-2007, 07:55 AM

The Norton rotaries were never excluded from racing except in the US. The capacity of 588 was accepted by the Police, Insurance companies, the DVLA and the ACU. I'm not quite sure what you mean about them being excluded, from what ? There was debate about their capacity but it never stopped them being raced.
The problem of lack of interest in a new product is seemingly universal, we are constantly hearing about new Aussie inventions but no-one in this country gets behind them. I'm not sure if that applied to the Dyson in the UK, James Dyson built a factory and made them in the UK.
I too am very proud to be English, I know some on here aren't but I see that as their problem really not mine ;)
HOS, don't have a Triumph BECAUSE it's a Triumph, have one because they are a bloody good bike at least as good as the generic stuff.

Jockney Rebel

05-03-2007, 05:53 PM

i believe dyson asked for a development grant and got turned down and the banks wernt interested hoover were willing to develop his idea but only if he signed over the copyright to it he had to mortgage himself to the hilt to get it off the ground.
i worked as a fitter at ford in dagenham in the 80's because evryone told me if i did my exams and got a trade id be in work for life 2 years after i finished my apprenticeship i was laid off ..because our factory [which was built in 1906 ]could'nt keep up with the competition in Belguim . we wer told we had to produce 1100 cars a day but the stampin plant that i looked after was still using converted steam presses from 1911 to stamp panels for sierras.

HOS

05-03-2007, 06:38 PM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

The Norton rotaries were never excluded from racing except in the US. The capacity of 588 was accepted by the Police, Insurance companies, the DVLA and the ACU. I'm not quite sure what you mean about them being excluded, from what ? There was debate about their capacity but it never stopped them being raced.
The problem of lack of interest in a new product is seemingly universal, we are constantly hearing about new Aussie inventions but no-one in this country gets behind them. I'm not sure if that applied to the Dyson in the UK, James Dyson built a factory and made them in the UK.
I too am very proud to be English, I know some on here aren't but I see that as their problem really not mine ;)
HOS, don't have a Triumph BECAUSE it's a Triumph, have one because they are a bloody good bike at least as good as the generic stuff.

Dyson took up UK Government financial help and EU financial help to set up his company and build a factory here in UK.
When it was up and running he then moved all the production to the east becauase it could be manufactured using cheap labour. Lots of people lost their jobs and livelihoods in the name of profit.
None of the money was given back used to pay for setting up the company.
I will never buy and Dyson product for that reason.

The Nortons were excluded from racing on the capacity grounds I thought ? It was a long time ago and my memory isnt brilliant.

I never owned a Triumph as when I started biking when the last of the Meriden Triumphs were spewing out. I want a new one from the heritage angle as well as the fact they mnake bloody awesome bikes.

I grew up with Brit bikers in the 70s when Jap bikes were Japcrap or Rice Burners. My Jap bike sounded like a sewing machine in their ears.
A great time when bikers wore black leather jackets, blue jeans and black steelers, dirty hands and black under their finger nails. They stank of oil, carried weapons and drank like bastads...... when the town I lived in was owned by the Outlaws. Both sides of the main street were lined with bikes every weekend, instead of the shopping bimbo 4 x 4s and parking meters we have now..

Tony Nitrous

05-03-2007, 08:17 PM

quote:I never owned a Triumph as when I started biking when the last of the Meriden Triumphs were spewing out.
I want a new one from the heritage angle as well as the fact they mnake bloody awesome bikes.

Nothing against Triumph.
If thats your thing, Great, go for it !

...but could someone explain the "Heritage angle" to me ?
I think buying a name on a bit of paper, and building a totaly
new product, however great, has little History or Heritage.

To me Triumph reputation started when the 1st bike rolled out of
the Hinkley factory. I see no links to Meriden other that Marketing
a product in the same way as the new Mini and VW Beetle.

They may have a great product, but "Heritage"....http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9116/thinknm2.gif....http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6785/confusedvm8.gif

Feel free to shoot me down ;)

HOS

06-03-2007, 08:00 PM

quote:Originally posted by Tony Nitrous

quote:I never owned a Triumph as when I started biking when the last of the Meriden Triumphs were spewing out.
I want a new one from the heritage angle as well as the fact they mnake bloody awesome bikes.

Nothing against Triumph.
If thats your thing, Great, go for it !

...but could someone explain the "Heritage angle" to me ?
I think buying a name on a bit of paper, and building a totaly
new product, however great, has little History or Heritage.

To me Triumph reputation started when the 1st bike rolled out of
the Hinkley factory. I see no links to Meriden other that Marketing
a product in the same way as the new Mini and VW Beetle.

They may have a great product, but "Heritage"....http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/9116/thinknm2.gif....http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/6785/confusedvm8.gif

Feel free to shoot me down ;)

For me, by virtue of the fact that it still carries the Triumph name and badge and stays loyal (to a degree) to the Triumph style and ideals of old.
I am very much aware that the new bikes bear little technical/design relation to the old.
But in spirit they do !
The heritage lives on... The new Bonnie and the Thruxton !
All the new Triumphs pay homage to their past in one way or another.

Even the new bikes like the Speed Triple, Speed Four, Daytona 675 and 955 stay loyal to Triumphs concept of building brilliantly handling bikes with "riders" in mind.

There is very little left here thats still clinging onto being British. For Triumph to take on the best Japanese manufacturers and beat them at their own game, for me is 100% brilliant.

If Triumph ever move their manufacturing abroad as they have talked about over recent years, I think for me and many others loyal to the Triumph name, we would finally lose that respect and faithfullness to the name.

I think it would lose its essential Britishness if it was no longer built here in England. I think that would be a very very costly mistake for the current Triumph management.

HOS

06-03-2007, 08:07 PM

Heres another potentially great Norton that bit the dust recently...
why I do`nt know....

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/52085643044441.jpg

Jockney Rebel

06-03-2007, 08:24 PM

with u HOS truimph stands alone where all the rest died names like ..matchless ajs vincent[could teach the yanks how to build fast v twins]ariel bsa scott silk norton etc
and the cars are the same rolls royce [ironically the firm that built the engine for the spitfire is now owned by the germans] aston martin,lotus,jaguar,hillman ,humber,mg,triumph,austin healey,jenson,rover all criminally mismanaged all showed tremendous potentisl...people still want hand built stuff and they ll pay premiums for it we should ve stuck to what we know build high quality hand built cars and bikes built by people who love their job ,built by proper craftsmen.
but of course the tradesmen have gone moved away ..sick of an engineering industry run by accountants
i really will shut up now:}

Tony Nitrous

06-03-2007, 09:22 PM

quote:Originally posted by frankenbiker

[ironically the firm that built the engine for the spitfire is now owned by the germans]

Triumph was originaly established by two Germans,
Mauritz Shulte and Siegfried Bettmann who moved from
Nuremberg to Coventry. They original produced bicycle's
before adding a Belgian made engine.

So at least you know who to thank.

Jockney Rebel

06-03-2007, 10:29 PM

quote:Originally posted by Tony Nitrous

quote:Originally posted by frankenbiker

[ironically the firm that built the engine for the spitfire is now owned by the germans]

Triumph was originaly established by two Germans,
Mauritz Shulte and Siegfried Bettmann who moved from
Nuremberg to Coventry. They original produced bicycle's
before adding a Belgian made engine.

So at least you know who to thank.
i didnt know that ta :)
and im not as xenophobic as i sound [8D]
did u know that 60% of all the items u take for granted in todays society were invented/discovered in britian[ according to a japanese survey]
i worked i germany for a few years and i found them to be on the whole a very family oriented, organised, culture who believe their losing their national identity because english has become the language of business. which is a shame really because what defines our humanity is the fact that we are all different on a personal and global level
being a celt i tend to be a bit passionate about certain things :)

HOS

07-03-2007, 03:09 AM

The very first Triumph motorcycles were made by Triumph cars in the eraly 1900s.
As they became more successful the motorcycle side split off from the car company.

Tony Nitrous

07-03-2007, 05:05 AM

quote:Originally posted by HOS

The very first Triumph motorcycles were made by Triumph cars in the eraly 1900s.

Other way around ?
First bikes were 1902 / 1903.
5 years after the company started making push-bikes.

HOS

07-03-2007, 06:02 AM

The only reason I said was we went up to the Rover Heritage centre near Warwick last year and its obviously full of all the old Rover/Leyland/Austin/Triumph/Morris/Mini cars and we saw a couple of old Triumph motorcycles circa 1902 or 1905 ish (?) and the write up said Triumphs were first made by the car company.

Spondonash

07-03-2007, 10:08 AM

Triumph, like many other largeish manufacturers build bikes in several locations, at present they are ALL built in Hinckley but some are assembled in Thailand, these are bikes for the Asian and Australian market. This makes sound economic sense and as much as it may grate with some people it is the way of the world. Just look at the American car market, it is now starting to be dominated by Japanese makers, Toyota has become the second biggest manufacturer in the world, that would have been unheard of even 10 years ago. Here in Australia the 'local' manufacturers, Ford, GM, Toyota and Mitsubishi are starting to really feel the strain of cheaper imports of equal quality. If you had the choice of buying a loaclly made car for $30,000 or an imported car that was to all intents and purposes exactly the same vehicle for $20,000 which would you choose ?
It is true Dyson did in fact move their vacuum manufacturing plant to the Far East but their research and development section is still in England and they still make washing machines there. It is just a fact of life I'm afraid.
This isn't a dig at Tony but the British have a great deal to be proud of, I realise he isn't and he has his own reasons for that but I myself am a very proud Brit.
The UK is still a centre of engineering excellence as can be seen by the number of Formula One teams, WSBK and MotoGP teams that use it for research development and other reasons.
Getting back to the Norton question about them being banned, I say again they were NEVER banned from racing in the UK, they stopped racing because of the situation with Norton themselves.

Gix11

07-03-2007, 01:51 PM

As for Triumph, try these:

http://www.ianchadwick.com/motorcycles/triumph/

http://www.best-motorcycle-gear.com/triumph-motorcycle-history.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triumph_Motorcycles

http://birminghamuk.com/triumph.htm

HOS

08-03-2007, 06:31 AM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

Triumph, like many other largeish manufacturers build bikes in several locations, at present they are ALL built in Hinckley but some are assembled in Thailand, these are bikes for the Asian and Australian market. This makes sound economic sense and as much as it may grate with some people it is the way of the world. Just look at the American car market, it is now starting to be dominated by Japanese makers, Toyota has become the second biggest manufacturer in the world, that would have been unheard of even 10 years ago. Here in Australia the 'local' manufacturers, Ford, GM, Toyota and Mitsubishi are starting to really feel the strain of cheaper imports of equal quality. If you had the choice of buying a loaclly made car for $30,000 or an imported car that was to all intents and purposes exactly the same vehicle for $20,000 which would you choose ?
It is true Dyson did in fact move their vacuum manufacturing plant to the Far East but their research and development section is still in England and they still make washing machines there. It is just a fact of life I'm afraid.
This isn't a dig at Tony but the British have a great deal to be proud of, I realise he isn't and he has his own reasons for that but I myself am a very proud Brit.
The UK is still a centre of engineering excellence as can be seen by the number of Formula One teams, WSBK and MotoGP teams that use it for research development and other reasons.
Getting back to the Norton question about them being banned, I say again they were NEVER banned from racing in the UK, they stopped racing because of the situation with Norton themselves.

Cosworth are going bust, TVR has had it, Rover gone, Peugeot Ryton plant just closed, GM pant at Luton closed, Jaguar struggling, Ford dipped further on their junk credit rating, businesses going bust at a large rate of knots.

Where it goes wrong with Triumph here in the UK is when you go to Windy Corner Triumph dealer around the corner from the Hinckley plant, you pay an OTT price for your Triumph.
MCN did this a couple of years back: they went to Spain and bought a brand new Triumph Daytona unregistered, shipped it back here, paid shipping costs/ import duty and VAT etc etc.... when they got it registered here and on the road it still worked out about £1800 cheaper than buying one from a UK Triumph dealer.
So why can you buy a UK Triumph even with all the oncosts from Spain or elsewhere much cheaper than from here ?

If Triumph close the Hinckley plant as has been discussed and then sell Triumphs here made in Thailand or somewehere else, thats when they will lose credibility and sales here.

Spondonash

08-03-2007, 08:11 AM

Triumph close the Hinckley plant ?? Discussed by who ? Not by Triumph that's for sure, where do these outrageous rumours come from ?
I think you will find that there is very little price difference around the globe with Triumphs, except in the States of course where everything is cheap, even life. Cosworth are going bust ??? When did this happen ? I would be very surprised if that were to happen. Not sure what Ford has to do with it as they are American. Why name a few companies that are having problems, why not name those going from strength to strength ? We hear of big companies going down the gurgler every day here, it is a fact of life. We have car factories here teetering on the brink because of cheaper (better ?) imports. I am a glass half full kind of person. :-)

HOS

08-03-2007, 09:03 AM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

Triumph close the Hinckley plant ?? Discussed by who ? Not by Triumph that's for sure, where do these outrageous rumours come from ?
I think you will find that there is very little price difference around the globe with Triumphs, except in the States of course where everything is cheap, even life. Cosworth are going bust ??? When did this happen ? I would be very surprised if that were to happen. Not sure what Ford has to do with it as they are American. Why name a few companies that are having problems, why not name those going from strength to strength ? We hear of big companies going down the gurgler every day here, it is a fact of life. We have car factories here teetering on the brink because of cheaper (better ?) imports. I am a glass half full kind of person. :-)

Triumph closing the Hinckley plant has been mooted by Triumph and discussed in the Brit motorcycle media on several occassions at length. I realise you may not know about these things being over there.
The point I`m making is manufactuiring as an age old industry in the UK is going down the pan fast. Fuck your jobs, fuck your livelihoods, we are moving your jobs abroad where we can pay them peanuts to build cars/bikes cheaper purely in the name of maximising profit for their company.

Our own products can be bought abroad and shipped back here more cheaply than we can buy them on home ground is the other point I am making.
We pay way over the odds for bikes and cars as imports or home grown products.
Example: I was looking at new ZO6 last year officially imported from the US through the UK dealer network at a cost here otr of £60,000 sterling. Left hand drive official import.

Cost of a new ZO6 in the US plus shipping costs to UK, plus import duty, plus otr costs worked out at less than £30,000 sterling. Still a left hand drive car...same same.

We pay too much...."Rip off Britain".
That show the whole grey and parallel imports business took off over here, much cheaper unofficial imports. In other words: greedy importers.

I am a PMA person more than anyone could know, but we have 5,000,000 of our wealthy/ skilled/ high earners gone abroad permanently and hundreds of thousands are following each and every year, because the socialists/ PC dogooders/ liberalists/ doleites/ namby pamby please everybody/ gutless/ spineless/ whimpering/ sycophantic/ smashing nicey/ tolerance in the extreme / commie / faggots have taken over this once rock hard nation..... along with the rest of commie Europe.

I can`t be British anymore because it might offend some jonny foreigner !!!!!!

This country is going down hard and rapidly. Lets not be PC about it.;)

Anyone got a settee and room for my Busa ? :D:D:D

Rant off.

HOS

08-03-2007, 09:27 AM

We have family at Cosworth, give me some credibility here mate ?

My older Bro works directly for the Chairman of Jaguar cars UK and runs his own section, based at their R&D centre, we have plenty of knowledge of UK manufacturing and finance.

I used to work a a freelance consultant/ project manager in the building industry, running up to £600m building projects, worked with main board of Directors of a few Blue Chip companies on new constrcution work, car plants, pharma/ agro chem/ global engineering contracts.

I`ve been around a bit OK ;)

08-03-2007, 10:55 AM

Need to get rid of that chardonnay socialist Blair and bring back Maggie Thatcher by the sounds of it. And yeah, jus how much is England paying out each week for ethnics and their offspring to sit on the dole?
Australia has surged ahead since the liberals came to office (equivalent to your tories), the bludger rate is right down, the illegal immigrant shit is virtually nil, standards of living are rising for everyone.
Left wing politics - emotionally riven, irrational, morally vaccuous pandering to housewives, fags and and nancy boys so that 2nd raters can gain office.

alfiestorm

08-03-2007, 04:30 PM

oh yeah time for a rant and upset a few people now no doubt, before I carry on with my preparations.

England is a fuckin great shit box full of lazy fucking wankers rejected from Asian, Caribbean and European countries and of course home grown lazy shitheads.

All those that keep on about how good england was at that and was at this get over it because England WAS and is not no more.

The historic bike industry in England died because it was fuckin lazy.

The attempts by Norton were finally nailed by rising costs etc.

Triumph have marched on and developed some good bikes but in time and not to far into the future Triumph will also move overseas which they have already started to do by having an assembly plant overseas ,yeah just laying the foundations for the move mate then it's fuck England, good on them I say.

I would not blame any company which moved abroad from England in the slightest as it is to fucking expensive to maintain a profitable business in shit box England.

Good day and tally ho!

:)

Spondonash

08-03-2007, 04:43 PM

This really does make me laugh, SOME sections of the media presumed Triumph would be shutting down production at Hinckley because they have built a factory in Thailand to assemble bikes for that market. It has NEVER been mooted by Triumph and in fact John Bloor is adament Hinckley will always produce bikes. Sorry but that rumour is just ridiculous. With the internet believe me I don't have to be in the UK to know what is happening ;)
Chalk, I would imagine England pays about the same per capita as this country does for our "ethnics and their offspring to sit on the dole" and "the illegal immigrant shit is virtually nil" sorry but what world are you living in ? Is it anywhere near the various immigrant detention centres scattered across the country ? LOL. The UK has lower interest rates, higher rate of growth, a lower inflation rate, higher industrial growth, better balance of trade figures and similar unemployment rates to this country but I do think Blair like Little Johnny will be gone this time around, thank goodness for us.
Our manufacturing sector is going downhill fast and is being replaced by overseas cheaper imports, jobs are being outsourced to India and once Australian firms are being bought, split up and closed down. This is the world we live in, if I could find a place where it didn't happen I would move there believe me.
Getting rid of John Howard would be a good start and by the looks of it we can at least look forward to that.

Spondonash

08-03-2007, 04:55 PM

LOL. Alfie, I do know of a couple of others that share your view but I'm not sure where those people would live though, companies are moving out of here rapidly because of increasing costs and the influx of cheap imports.
The nail in Nortons coffin was the fact that it was ripped off by it's Seth Efrican MD, nothing at all to do with rising costs, they struggled on for a time after that but the damage was done. Triumph like most other companies has manufacturing plants around the world, should they be any different ? With them expanding their British base it would seem very odd indeed to shut it down.
Thankfully the vast majority of people I know in the UK don't share your view and is usually the case it's the vocal minority that get heard, the majority just roll their eyes at the comments. Me I like a good argument LOL.

08-03-2007, 05:03 PM

Uummm if industry is being closed down so fast, how come we have the lowest unemployment rate in how many decades? And as for illegal immigration in UK I believe that recent figures put out by the UK govt actually disprove that statement, a situation that has only gotten worse since the expension of the EU etc. And you cam imagine whatever you like, but when the ethnic population of the UK is in excess of 5 million (or more than a quarter of the Aus total population), and they have large enclaves rife with unemployment, then the cost to the UK is going to be far higher than here, regardless of what world view you are espousing, and since everyone here knows I'm from CBR, and there are no such detention centres here, cut the irrelevant bullshit. Australia actually has one of the highest growth rates in the OECD, and one of the lowest inflation rates, so I don't know where you're information is coming from, but the OECD is the premier body when it comes to such research.
And if you think that John H. will bve gone in the next election then you're living in a dreamworld, ain't going to happen, even the labor politicians secretly agree with that one. And that's a Labour insiders view, as well as mine.
Interest rates and balance of trade figures are subjective measures, they fluctuate over time and don't necessitate either positive or negative view of an economy. Japan had high interest rates and 'negative' balance of trade figures before and during much of the 70's and 80 boom time for them.

HOS

08-03-2007, 06:27 PM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

This really does make me laugh, SOME sections of the media presumed Triumph would be shutting down production at Hinckley because they have built a factory in Thailand to assemble bikes for that market. It has NEVER been mooted by Triumph and in fact John Bloor is adament Hinckley will always produce bikes. Sorry but that rumour is just ridiculous. With the internet believe me I don't have to be in the UK to know what is happening ;)
Chalk, I would imagine England pays about the same per capita as this country does for our "ethnics and their offspring to sit on the dole" and "the illegal immigrant shit is virtually nil" sorry but what world are you living in ? Is it anywhere near the various immigrant detention centres scattered across the country ? LOL. The UK has lower interest rates, higher rate of growth, a lower inflation rate, higher industrial growth, better balance of trade figures and similar unemployment rates to this country but I do think Blair like Little Johnny will be gone this time around, thank goodness for us.
Our manufacturing sector is going downhill fast and is being replaced by overseas cheaper imports, jobs are being outsourced to India and once Australian firms are being bought, split up and closed down. This is the world we live in, if I could find a place where it didn't happen I would move there believe me.
Getting rid of John Howard would be a good start and by the looks of it we can at least look forward to that.

Its hard to work out anything from the British news media as it is by and large a crock of shit, I will give you that.

As for government statistics.... how many times has the UK government been proved to have lied their fucking tits off about statistics ? Like Gordon Brown in his last budget making the growth rate figure for the UK economy so high it was a joke and then being forced to revise his figure downwards.
The National Office of Statistics (government) or as we call it: "The Ministry of Lies and Misinformation" has been proved time and time again to have lied over figures to assist whatever cause the commie government has in mind.
The total lies that have been told about speed cameras saving thousands of lives each year when the complete opposite is true....

Socialist politicians here and the EU are just lairs.
Throw in Mafia connections and a lot of corruption into the EU parliament and its a recipe for hell on earth for any EU citizen.

HOS

08-03-2007, 06:29 PM

quote:Originally posted by alfiestorm

oh yeah time for a rant and upset a few people now no doubt, before I carry on with my preparations.

England is a fuckin great shit box full of lazy fucking wankers rejected from Asian, Caribbean and European countries and of course home grown lazy shitheads.

All those that keep on about how good england was at that and was at this get over it because England WAS and is not no more.

The historic bike industry in England died because it was fuckin lazy.

The attempts by Norton were finally nailed by rising costs etc.

Triumph have marched on and developed some good bikes but in time and not to far into the future Triumph will also move overseas which they have already started to do by having an assembly plant overseas ,yeah just laying the foundations for the move mate then it's fuck England, good on them I say.

I would not blame any company which moved abroad from England in the slightest as it is to fucking expensive to maintain a profitable business in shit box England.

Good day and tally ho!

:)

I think that sums up the feelings of most REAL Brits still left here.

It aint fun being in a minority and made to be a third class citizen in our own country.

Full of socialist fags....

HOS

08-03-2007, 06:34 PM

But then again all good socilaists will sit and listen to the lies and bullshit from Tony B-liar and his cohorts.

Lied to get us into Iraq as Bush`s bum boy, was just a one part of it.

Clueless socialists will never pull the wool over the eyes of hard realists. Don`t take the bullshit !!

But remember all politicians of whatever badge here in England are from the same system;)

HOS

08-03-2007, 06:46 PM

Immigration statistics from the Immigration office were wrong, they cooked the figures as they are in total disarray.

Look at some figures here:

57 million UK population.
500,000 illegal immigrants here who do`nt exist on the system. According to government figures which means they will be way under.
500,000 failed ayslum seekers still here on the streets who dont exist on the system. Again a government figure so realistically way too low.
at least 500,000 east Europeans migrant workers here on visas (or not) again who dont exist on the system.
So we worked it out that 1,500,000 (at least) out of 57,000,000 means: 5 in 200 people (minimum)on our streets here shouldnt be here at all or just dont exist on the system.
Crime ? Drug dealing ? Anything for them to survive and stay off the system.
A lot of those guys have cars here. No insurance, no license, no ID, not tracable, can slip out the country easily when they murder or rape..... and they quite often do slip back out the country.

The UK is in total crisis with immigrants legal or illegal.
Everyone has human rights and plenty of social benefits except us.... the British.

Wanna know what asylum seekers get in benefits and support here ?

Wanna know what we get when we have a major accident and need family support for your wife and kids..... that`ll be fuck all then.

If that wasnt PC then you can kiss my ? :D

08-03-2007, 06:49 PM

Time to join the BNP Hos.

Spondonash

08-03-2007, 07:48 PM

"Australia actually has one of the highest growth rates in the OECD, and one of the lowest inflation rates, so I don't know where you're information is coming from, but the OECD is the premier body when it comes to such research."

I'm not sure what you read in my post but I didn't disagree with that.

Spondonash

08-03-2007, 07:56 PM

The overriding feeling I get from you is of a xenophobic racist, I might be wrong but I know loads of REAL Brits and they don't feel like you. Don't get me wrong they don't want loads of illegals running around the country anymore than we do but they don't have your extreme views and they seem to have a less narrow view of things.
My advice would be move somewhere else but I can't suggest where you could go and not be confronted by the same issues that seem to get you so uptight. Good luck though. ;)

08-03-2007, 08:06 PM

Ash[8D];)I knew u hadnt` gone back.Is good to see some light in amonsist this poo[8D]honestly people,we build bikes not religon`s[:X]
wake up[8)]all of you[xx(]

08-03-2007, 08:08 PM

Aaaah, right in this line "The UK has lower interest rates, higher rate of growth, a lower inflation rate, higher industrial growth, better balance of trade figures and similar unemployment rates to this country ......."
Pretty much does say exactly that.
And yeah, I used to work on the OECD desk for Primary Industries and Energy, and still have access to the document database that even the Journo's don't get to see. I also wrote international trade policy for the dept., so analysing the structure of arguments was part fo my job, and that entire post was pretty much along the lines of UK is doing better than Aus. Not true, that thinking merely reflects an uncritical acceptance of sensationalist media drivel.

Tony Nitrous

08-03-2007, 08:41 PM

....yeah,

be interesting to see how that Rotary go's against the current stuff.

08-03-2007, 08:45 PM

Spondonash

08-03-2007, 08:49 PM

To be honest I reckon a modernised Norton Rotary would at LEAST stay with the majority of the generic Jap bikes. I would imagine that the race bike should give a good account of itself. Brian built a single rotor rotary engine with his own fuel injection system about 10 or more years ago and he got over 70 HP from it, not bad for a sub 300cc engine ;)

quote:Originally posted by Tony Nitrous

....yeah,

be interesting to see how that Rotary go's against the current stuff.

loosebruce

08-03-2007, 08:58 PM

there is a pretty neat example of a road going Norton rotary in a little motor museum in Binalong .
We asked him to start er up, but the battery was flat.[^]

Tony Nitrous

08-03-2007, 08:59 PM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

To be honest I reckon a modernised Norton Rotary would at LEAST stay with the majority of the generic Jap bikes. I would imagine that the race bike should give a good account of itself. Brian built a single rotor rotary engine with his own fuel injection system about 10 or more years ago and he got over 70 HP from it, not bad for a sub 300cc engine ;)

quote:Originally posted by Tony Nitrous

....yeah,
be interesting to see how that Rotary go's against the current stuff.

How did they calculate the CC's ?
1 side of the rotor ?
1.5 x 1 side ?

I have decided that im only going to count the CC's on my
Busa that are under compession / fireing as Rotary engines dont
count the true 3 x maximum volume of a chamber.

So I now have 159.5bhp from 325cc

;)

Tony.J.

HOS

09-03-2007, 12:18 AM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

The overriding feeling I get from you is of a xenophobic racist, I might be wrong but I know loads of REAL Brits and they don't feel like you. Don't get me wrong they don't want loads of illegals running around the country anymore than we do but they don't have your extreme views and they seem to have a less narrow view of things.
My advice would be move somewhere else but I can't suggest where you could go and not be confronted by the same issues that seem to get you so uptight. Good luck though. ;)

So all those "real" Brits you know in Australia bailed outta here for what reasons? And how long ago ? Your making me laugh now !!

A "xenphhobic racist".... thats a bit PC mate ? :D

Narrow view ? Err nope, I have an eyes wide open view. My eyes arent tinted with socialist red :D I just do`nt allow myself to be conditioned by the socialist indoctrination.... some Brits do though.
5 million of our best have allready gone and hundreds of thousands pouring outta here yearly, says enough about super smashing wonderful nicey socialist Britain.... but no no its lovely here... if you walk around with your eyes blinkered.... or closed. ....Mincing through the windswept concrete piatsa`s listening to Checkov... super [:o)]:D

HOS

09-03-2007, 12:48 AM

I don`t care !!!

They can nail me to a minarret of the local mosque !!!
But I`m not taking off my Union Jack underpants ever !!!!!!! :(

Jockney Rebel

09-03-2007, 01:11 AM

just to put things into perspective to live and work in the uk cost u 60%of ur net earnings
ave 1000 Quid per year in poll tax [for all residents over 18]bar a few exceptions
21-40%income tax
17.5% sales tax
10%of ur income goes to national ins
the housing market has been pushed thru the roof by developers particularly in the south east so that ordinary working class people cant afford to own their own home
examlpe 257000[$660000] quid for a two up two down in stratford east london
fuel at 1pound alitre hits everybody cos most of the stuff u buy travels by road
before i left ..18 months ago i was a manager for a mid sized plant hire company in Kent
my basic salary was 24000 per annummy wife was working 30miles from home in greenwich as a senior hair stylist at an up market salon she worked six days a week
her salary was basic 18000 per annum
our out goings were
rent 140 per week
we ran a 1990 bmw 1.8
60quid a week in petrol just for the wife to go to work [before u maention public transport it s 255 pounds a month for a rail card]
food bil was 100 quid a week
poll tax works out at approx 40 quid a week
by the time our bills were paid we were nigh on skint evry week
now ..i used to be a card carryin member of the socialist workers party and a unionist [youngest shop steward at Fords dagenham]
and i detested maggie thatcher
i still believe in a socialist solution to the world s ills ..but chalkies right the laft has gone crazy in the last ten years all the councils in the depressed areas of london for instance have been hijacked by minorities because of positve discrimination
so u get nutcase by-laws
i believe everyone has the right to decent living and working conditions and medical care these are basic needs ..but im fucked if im paying for some african to come to britian to have their baby on our nhs [my tax money ] and then sit on the dole ..
example ..my mate was selling his beloved 96 5 series beemer when the guy turned up he was polish
he had a fuckin dole check in his mit for 5 grand to buy a car [ the local council were paying for a cab to takes his kids to school% back evry day and reckoned it would be cheaper to buy him a car..hed been in the uk for 4weeks
i got told i couldnt have a council flat because i didnt have enuf points [7 instead of 70] i asked the bloke how tdo i get more points then / to which he replied get pregnant, become gay get released from prison , or seek asylum
i used to drive a cab at weekends when we were saving to come here ..this young 12 year old i used to take to a youth centre as part of his punishment for putting a 25yr old in hospital wit a fractured skull[ he hit him with a ballpein hammer]..was given 120 quid in cash from the centre admin "cos he lost his mobile phone' ..they sent him to disney land just after he was nicked ..i ask u what message is that sending to the kids who stick in and work hard ?

the point of all this is like hos said wer all fukin off cos the country is fuked and we ll sell our skills to a country who respects us after all the best way you can show ur respect for ur workforce is in the pay packet mate ive gone back on the tolls and my livin standard have trebled because i came here and im bloody grateful to be here

their are mates of mine back home who are 1 payslip from destitution and others who are killin themselves doin 2 and three jobs to keep it together ..
fact ..the average working week in the uk is 62.5 hours a week the highest in europe
with both my jobs i was averaging 83 hours a week never saw my kid or the missus from one day to the next.. so HOS mate get on a plane my young brother did it 2 months ago and never looked back the govt will regret us going cos the "cheap labour" theyve got now wont be cheap once they poles and czechs and all the rest realise their get stitched on their rates
BTW we ve got a spare room:}

09-03-2007, 01:19 AM

quote:Originally posted by HOS

I don`t care !!!

But I`m not taking off my Union Jack underpants ever !!!!!!! :(

Fuck I hope they're wash'n'wear then mate :D
And doesn't the missus get a bit miffed at times :D
Do what Frankenb says mate, head down under. Life's pretty good here these days, even under the evil, right wing, Liberal Govt :D
You'll even be able to afford to go home for regular holidays

Jockney Rebel

09-03-2007, 01:21 AM

right now the global issues are sorted .....if roteries are so good how come th Re5 was such a waste of space ?

09-03-2007, 01:26 AM

Cos they tried to make a tourer of it. The RE5 was pretty fat, plus it had early 70's Japanese handling. Sort of a Suzuki GL1000, or GT750. And the waterbottle had pretty shocking handling.
Oh and cost, they were damned expensive, and even more expensive to do engine work on, which may have been ok for an expensive brand like Norton, but not a Jap cheapie, as Suzuki was back then.

HOS

09-03-2007, 01:27 AM

Thank YOU frankenbiker.

I note your another construction industry guy ;)
Its just a question of being a common sense, practical thinker.
It isnt rocket science to see how it is here.

Still got one more operation to be done whilst I am here.
4th one since my bike smash 5 1/2 years ago.
(Got at least another 3 major ops during the next 20 years)
Plus I want to get my CBIAT and MCIOB back on board before
me and my new lady depart. Anders Elite are banging me with
Emials to go work in Aus lately. But cannot depart just yet.
Thanks for your offer of a sofa !!!!

HOS

09-03-2007, 01:32 AM

quote:Originally posted by chalk10

quote:Originally posted by HOS

I don`t care !!!

But I`m not taking off my Union Jack underpants ever !!!!!!! :(

Fuck I hope they're wash'n'wear then mate :D
And doesn't the missus get a bit miffed at times :D
Do what Frankenb says mate, head down under. Life's pretty good here these days, even under the evil, right wing, Liberal Govt :D
You'll even be able to afford to go home for regular holidays

I can`t see the mrs going down under unless I change these undies mate :D

HOS

09-03-2007, 01:33 AM

quote:Originally posted by chalk10

Cos they tried to make a tourer of it. The RE5 was pretty fat, plus it had early 70's Japanese handling. Sort of a Suzuki GL1000, or GT750. And the waterbottle had pretty shocking handling.
Oh and cost, they were damned expensive, and even more expensive to do engine work on, which may have been ok for an expensive brand like Norton, but not a Jap cheapie, as Suzuki was back then.

And the RE5 weighed 1/2 a tonne !!!!!

09-03-2007, 01:36 AM

And hopefully take them off while she is, otherwise it's worse than leaving yer boots on. :D

Although the number of times I woke up with me boots still on when I was wearing 11 ups. The worse thing was waking up realising you were late for work, leaping out of bed, and yer jeans were still tangled up in yer boots. :D

Spondonash

09-03-2007, 07:29 AM

LOL. I never said anything about those REAL Brits being in this country, I am referring to friends in the UK.
FACT. More people left Australia permanently in 2006 than in any year previously. Why is that ? Don't get me wrong I like living here but I don't a warped view of this country being a Utopia.

quote:Originally posted by HOS

So all those "real" Brits you know in Australia bailed outta here for what reasons? And how long ago ? Your making me laugh now !!

A "xenphhobic racist".... thats a bit PC mate ? :D

Narrow view ? Err nope, I have an eyes wide open view. My eyes arent tinted with socialist red :D I just do`nt allow myself to be conditioned by the socialist indoctrination.... some Brits do though.
5 million of our best have allready gone and hundreds of thousands pouring outta here yearly, says enough about super smashing wonderful nicey socialist Britain.... but no no its lovely here... if you walk around with your eyes blinkered.... or closed. ....Mincing through the windswept concrete piatsa`s listening to Checkov... super [:o)]:D

Spondonash

09-03-2007, 07:53 AM

I do understand that as someone who has left their country for another it is usual to denegrate your original country as much as possible so as you know you have made the right decision. That seems normal.
My understanding was that the lowest rate of income tax was in fact 16 or 17% which would be what the average wage earner would pay, of course like here the more you earn the more you pay
It is also my understanding that you pay nothing like 10% of your wage for national insurance.
A good friend of mine recently went to work in London and he earned twice what he did in Brisbane and he reckoned virtually nothing cost anymore so he was very well off. He actually said it was an eye opener because of all the horror stories he had heard.
Just recently the media here made a big thing of the fact that Australian workers worked the longest hours of any OECD country. I don't know ANYONE who even approaches 60 odd hours a week or needs to work 2 jobs to make ends meet.
You both appeared to earn very low wages especially for Kent, when I worked in the UK fairly recently in an unskilled job I earned more than that and that was in the cheaper South West of the country.
Average people here can't afford a house, welcome to the real world.

[quote]Originally posted by frankenbiker

just to put things into perspective to live and work in the uk cost u 60%of ur net earnings
ave 1000 Quid per year in poll tax [for all residents over 18]bar a few exceptions
21-40%income tax
17.5% sales tax
10%of ur income goes to national ins
the housing market has been pushed thru the roof by developers particularly in the south east so that ordinary working class people cant afford to own their own home
examlpe 257000[$660000] quid for a two up two down in stratford east london
fuel at 1pound alitre hits everybody cos most of the stuff u buy travels by road
before i left ..18 months ago i was a manager for a mid sized plant hire company in Kent
my basic salary was 24000 per annummy wife was working 30miles from home in greenwich as a senior hair stylist at an up market salon she worked six days a week
her salary was basic 18000 per annum
our out goings were
rent 140 per week
we ran a 1990 bmw 1.8
60quid a week in petrol just for the wife to go to work [before u maention public transport it s 255 pounds a month for a rail card]
food bil was 100 quid a week
poll tax works out at approx 40 quid a week
by the time our bills were paid we were nigh on skint evry week
now ..i used to be a card carryin member of the socialist workers party and a unionist [youngest shop steward at Fords dagenham]
and i detested maggie thatcher
i still believe in a socialist solution to the world s ills ..but chalkies right the laft has gone crazy in the last ten years all the councils in the depressed areas of london for instance have been hijacked by minorities because of positve discrimination
so u get nutcase by-laws
i believe everyone has the right to decent living and working conditions and medical care these are basic needs ..but im fucked if im paying for some african to come to britian to have their baby on our nhs [my tax money ] and then sit on the dole ..
example ..my mate was selling his beloved 96 5 series beemer when

HOS

09-03-2007, 06:20 PM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

LOL. I never said anything about those REAL Brits being in this country, I am referring to friends in the UK.
FACT. More people left Australia permanently in 2006 than in any year previously. Why is that ? Don't get me wrong I like living here but I don't a warped view of this country being a Utopia.

quote:Originally posted by HOS

So all those "real" Brits you know in Australia bailed outta here for what reasons? And how long ago ? Your making me laugh now !!

A "xenphhobic racist".... thats a bit PC mate ? :D

Narrow view ? Err nope, I have an eyes wide open view. My eyes arent tinted with socialist red :D I just do`nt allow myself to be conditioned by the socialist indoctrination.... some Brits do though.
5 million of our best have allready gone and hundreds of thousands pouring outta here yearly, says enough about super smashing wonderful nicey socialist Britain.... but no no its lovely here... if you walk around with your eyes blinkered.... or closed. ....Mincing through the windswept concrete piatsa`s listening to Checkov... super [:o)]:D

You have friends ?????!!!!!! :D

HOS

09-03-2007, 06:46 PM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

I do understand that as someone who has left their country for another it is usual to denegrate your original country as much as possible so as you know you have made the right decision. That seems normal.
My understanding was that the lowest rate of income tax was in fact 16 or 17% which would be what the average wage earner would pay, of course like here the more you earn the more you pay
It is also my understanding that you pay nothing like 10% of your wage for national insurance.
A good friend of mine recently went to work in London and he earned twice what he did in Brisbane and he reckoned virtually nothing cost anymore so he was very well off. He actually said it was an eye opener because of all the horror stories he had heard.
Just recently the media here made a big thing of the fact that Australian workers worked the longest hours of any OECD country. I don't know ANYONE who even approaches 60 odd hours a week or needs to work 2 jobs to make ends meet.
You both appeared to earn very low wages especially for Kent, when I worked in the UK fairly recently in an unskilled job I earned more than that and that was in the cheaper South West of the country.
Average people here can't afford a house, welcome to the real world.

I`ve found most "city types" are well off the pace on reality mate.
London was ranked as the most expensive city in the world to live last year and its a toilet.
Cities are thE same the world over, people I know who have gone to Aus say the cities are not the place to live.
Everyone here is working themselves to death for average/poor wages and very high living costs. Employers expect free overtime and most have to do it just to keep their jobs.
The skills shortage here is dire and yet employers still treat staff like shit.
I have been an employer and an employee, run my own Ltd company and run my own offices and recruited my own staff. Too many people here are working themselves into and early grave because too few are working and too many freeloaders are taking too much out of the system.
Look at the figures again?

57 million resident UK population not including immigrants.
28 million of those are working.
Out of that 28 million workers a lot work part time hours.
A lot earn the minimum wage of around £5 an hour. A lot of those people are unskilled workers.
So only a small percentage of those 28 million workers work full time with basic or higher than average wages. That small percentage are killing themselves to pay for all the rest of the people living and not working and not contributing to the system.... the same people who take loads out of the system in benefits and medical care because of their lifestyle.
Disabled people here are being forced back to work by the government because they want more tax in the system to pay for those who just take and whats mnore those who have just come here and never paid into the system.
Thats how clueless, head in the clouds, uncaring, uneducated socialists operate, welcome to socialism and all its shitty dealings.

Spondonash

09-03-2007, 07:12 PM

"Oslo, Norway topped the list of the most expensive, followed by Paris, Copenhagen, Denmark and London. Two Japanese cities broke into the top ten: Tokyo - which claimed the top spot in 2005 and came in second last year - at fifth and Osaka Kobe at sixth."
Not quite first but maybe it depends who you listen to. LOL.
"Everyone here is working themselves to death for average/poor wages " That statement is just absurd, it just isn't true. All my mates over there have a comfortable life and earn good money.
Australians are working amongst the longest if not THE longest hours in the OECD according to our media and a great many work unpaid overtime, the funny thing is the spin the media put on that was that Aussies are therefore the hardest workers in the world :-)
I just smile when I read all this because I think that could all be about this country, our beloved leader has recently introduced legislation that more or less removes any remaining rights workers had. Agree to the terms or take a walk. The next door neighbours son is a first year electrical apprentice and he told me he was earning $2.80 an hour. That's $2.80an hour. There is a minimum wage of something like $12.00 but this seemingly doesn't apply to apprentices.
This isn't a "who's country is better" sort of thing it's just that it seems as though this is the way the world is going.
I would like to see some actual figures for the workforce rather than "a lot work part time hours." and "A lot earn the minimum wage"
and "So only a small percentage of those 28 million workers work full time"
"Look at the figures again?" When I see some I will look at them LOL ;)

loosebruce

09-03-2007, 07:36 PM

You could be worse off, and live in the ewe ess aye.
Don't need any more poms here the place is fullathacnz.

Spondonash

09-03-2007, 08:00 PM

Loosebruce isn't a very Aboriginal name ?

loosebruce

09-03-2007, 08:14 PM

It's pronounced ab bori ginal,don't get me started on Kiwis,they've ruined this country!

Spondonash

09-03-2007, 08:28 PM

Now that's not fair, without the Kiwis there wouldn't be any famous Aussies.

Jockney Rebel

09-03-2007, 11:38 PM

my brothers beginning to establish himself in NZ as a conts. manager wages seem less here when u first get here but u have to not convert and think of relative living costs i have more disposable income here than ive had in years..

Jockney Rebel

09-03-2007, 11:58 PM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

"Oslo, Norway topped the list of the most expensive, followed by Paris, Copenhagen, Denmark and London. Two Japanese cities broke into the top ten: Tokyo - which claimed the top spot in 2005 and came in second last year - at fifth and Osaka Kobe at sixth."
Not quite first but maybe it depends who you listen to. LOL.
"Everyone here is working themselves to death for average/poor wages " That statement is just absurd, it just isn't true. All my mates over there have a comfortable life and earn good money.
Australians are working amongst the longest if not THE longest hours in the OECD according to our media and a great many work unpaid overtime, the funny thing is the spin the media put on that was that Aussies are therefore the hardest workers in the world :-)
I just smile when I read all this because I think that could all be about this country, our beloved leader has recently introduced legislation that more or less removes any remaining rights workers had. Agree to the terms or take a walk. The next door neighbours son is a first year electrical apprentice and he told me he was earning $2.80 an hour. That's $2.80an hour. There is a minimum wage of something like $12.00 but this seemingly doesn't apply to apprentices.
This isn't a "who's country is better" sort of thing it's just that it seems as though this is the way the world is going.
I would like to see some actual figures for the workforce rather than "a lot work part time hours." and "A lot earn the minimum wage"
and "So only a small percentage of those 28 million workers work full time"
"Look at the figures again?" When I see some I will look at them LOL ;)

ash im a socialist by nature and im not denegrating my country of birth ..[im a proud scot ..]and ive lived and worked in 3 other european countries ...if we didnt get in here we were going to live in Holland for me its not just a finacial thing its emotional and socialogical these are the reasons i moved and to the many expats ive talked to they seem to be fairly common reasons for leaving britian fear for the future ..
im just a realist the 18% income tax u refer to ?where dy get that mate ? the only time i evr paid 18 % was when i was on CIS[ self employed] and then it gets clawed back in april
i reckon there are some sections of the uk workforce "who ve nevr had it so good" but ull usually find there either asset rich and cash poor or in an industry such as banking or a service industry
we re talking about engineering /manufacturing /construction[ traditionally reasonably well paid jobs for blu collar workers ]
if i could live the same sort of lifestyle in britian as here at the same cost
..i doubt id go back anyway because that is just part of it ..the fact i can discuss these issues with people who have diometrically opposed veiws without it degenerating into a fight proves the people here are more relaxed than back home STRESS is the thing! im less stressed that ive evr been thats it in a nutshell for me at least :)
anyway so RE5s were shit what about the other thing from germany ? aircooled DKW i think ?

Jockney Rebel

10-03-2007, 12:07 AM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

Now that's not fair, without the Kiwis there wouldn't be any famous Aussies.
ahhh NZ aka little Scotland ......:)without scotland there wouldnt be any decent engineers in the uk i mean even capt Kirks engineer was a jock:D

10-03-2007, 03:10 AM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

"Australians are working amongst the longest if not THE longest hours in the OECD according to our media and a great many work unpaid overtime, the funny thing is the spin the media put on that was that Aussies are therefore the hardest workers in the world :-)

I wouldn't get too carried away by those particular OECD figures, you know how they get them? They go out and ask inner city people and upper level public servants how many hours they work, then the Dept. sends those figures into the OECD for publishing without any validation. And while upper level public servants do work longish hours, they all put down more than they actually do, and forget to take off things like lunch breaks, we used to piss ourselves at some of the stuff that came in, because we knew the people answering them. And I've spent enough time in enough Dept's to know it's all bollocks, same with inner city workers in Melbourne and Sydney &etc, they ALL make out that they work longer hours than they really do. Telstra office workers carry on amongst the worst, yet when I was contracting there, and in the public service, the only staff still around after 5 pm were the contractors. DEWR is a twat of a dept. and well known for distorting every statistic that goes through them. It's mainly staffed by ex-FACSIA staff, and that's bottom of the barrel in public service terms.
I've worked in nursing, public service, IT, some factory and such like, and most Australians put in 40 hours a week and FUCK ALL more, maybe 15 % of the workforce put in the long hours claimed, and they tend to be professionals /real estate / self employed and the like, ie generally well paid areas where the more hours you work, the more you earn.

10-03-2007, 03:17 AM

quote:Originally posted by frankenbiker

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

Now that's not fair, without the Kiwis there wouldn't be any famous Aussies.
ahhh NZ aka little Scotland ......:)without scotland there wouldnt be any decent engineers in the uk i mean even capt Kirks engineer was a jock:D

Only down in the South Island mate, up in the North they're 'South Pacific Poms', just as wet as England, but more temperate climate.
Actually the SI was primarily Scottish immigrants, and the NI English immigrants, why the fuck the Scots actually chose to go down there I'll never understand, those mountains don't look that great, and fuck it is cold, colder than my ex-wife's heart even. :D

Jockney Rebel

10-03-2007, 04:20 AM

quote:Originally posted by chalk10

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

"Australians are working amongst the longest if not THE longest hours in the OECD according to our media and a great many work unpaid overtime, the funny thing is the spin the media put on that was that Aussies are therefore the hardest workers in the world :-)

I wouldn't get too carried away by those particular OECD figures, you know how they get them? They go out and ask inner city people and upper level public servants how many hours they work, then the Dept. sends those figures into the OECD for publishing without any validation. And while upper level public servants do work longish hours, they all put down more than they actually do, and forget to take off things like lunch breaks, we used to piss ourselves at some of the stuff that came in, because we knew the people answering them. And I've spent enough time in enough Dept's to know it's all bollocks, same with inner city workers in Melbourne and Sydney &etc, they ALL make out that they work longer hours than they really do. Telstra office workers carry on amongst the worst, yet when I was contracting there, and in the public service, the only staff still around after 5 pm were the contractors. DEWR is a twat of a dept. and well known for distorting every statistic that goes through them. It's mainly staffed by ex-FACSIA staff, and that's bottom of the barrel in public service terms.
I've worked in nursing, public service, IT, some factory and such like, and most Australians put in 40 hours a week and FUCK ALL more, maybe 15 % of the workforce put in the long hours claimed, and they tend to be professionals /real estate / self employed and the like, ie generally well paid areas where the more hours you work, the more you earn.

y know what they say chalk thers lies, damned lies and statsitics.

and as for u Ash
ur obviously an Anglophile or summat we had our heritage sold out from under us

point of fact british telecom state owned for ever run down then floated on the stoke exchange so that big fish could make a quik killing at the staes expense same with british rail etc etc

i mean if i if i stole ur car broke it up then sold u the parts back would u accept that ? well thats what maggie done with our nationalized industrys
why have we no engineering training program? because she sold it to the engineering industry who broke it down and sold it on... the old country is just that.. old, knackered and on the verge of being just another state in europe
i mean germanys fast becoming europes bank ,france is its larder, and the rest just sponge off the richer states
i believe the situation will sort itself out eventually but i dont have the time to wait for them to sort it out. mean while the uk is in limbo neither in or out of europe

my uncle in scotland is a trawlerman has his own boat his tax goes toward the payment britian makes to europe i dont know the exact figure but its the same as Spain takes out evry year they have brand new trawlers[ subsidised by the eu ] that fish for cod etc off the west coast of scotland with smaller nets ..is he pissed off ? u bet
his tax enables spanish fishermen to more efficiantly stitch him up .
we could fire stats at each other all night im just quoting my personal experience and that of all the other people i know i worked 44hrs salary paid so no o/t[the average w week]for a take home pay of 275 per week average for the industry. in the plant hire firm
then drive a cab self employed for 2 sometimes 3 12 hour shifts thurs thru sat
averaging 350 quid take tax and all my overheads from that [cab rent circuit rent ins fuel etc and i would be left with app 200 ..my wife took home 200 a week also average for her industry
to exsist in london u NEED 500 quid a week end of story

i work 37.5 hours a week here and take home ,on average 800bucks and the wife works 3days for 350 our outgoings are less than 50% of our earnings and thats including credit etc
i have sat tv ,a106mm plasma all the mod cons we couldnt afford back home i live in a 3 bed house next to the ocean drive a 280 merc and have a bike eat out regularly etc try that in britian no chance u got it good here mate im not an idiot and i aint lazy if it was ok back home idv stayed there why drag my family halfway round the world ?i arrived in aus with the clothes on my back and 1500 quid 18 months ago best days work i ever did
as for wages well
fireman 24000pa
nurse 22k pa
cop 22k pa
bus driver 18.5k pa
briky s/em 40k pa [puts him in the 35% tax bracket ]
teacher 18-19 k pa
then we get to the "professions "
lawyer 100k pa
doctor nhs 65 k pa
doctor private 100 k pa
civil eng 35k pa upwards dep on field

just do the math an ave house costs 200-250k right ?
if ur household earns 38k a year the most banks will only give u 3.5 times ur salary so 3.5x38k=133000 if ur an average fam u have at least 1 kid so yer fuked really

HOS

10-03-2007, 07:11 AM

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

"Oslo, Norway topped the list of the most expensive, followed by Paris, Copenhagen, Denmark and London. Two Japanese cities broke into the top ten: Tokyo - which claimed the top spot in 2005 and came in second last year - at fifth and Osaka Kobe at sixth."
Not quite first but maybe it depends who you listen to. LOL.
"Everyone here is working themselves to death for average/poor wages " That statement is just absurd, it just isn't true. All my mates over there have a comfortable life and earn good money.
Australians are working amongst the longest if not THE longest hours in the OECD according to our media and a great many work unpaid overtime, the funny thing is the spin the media put on that was that Aussies are therefore the hardest workers in the world :-)
I just smile when I read all this because I think that could all be about this country, our beloved leader has recently introduced legislation that more or less removes any remaining rights workers had. Agree to the terms or take a walk. The next door neighbours son is a first year electrical apprentice and he told me he was earning $2.80 an hour. That's $2.80an hour. There is a minimum wage of something like $12.00 but this seemingly doesn't apply to apprentices.
This isn't a "who's country is better" sort of thing it's just that it seems as though this is the way the world is going.
I would like to see some actual figures for the workforce rather than "a lot work part time hours." and "A lot earn the minimum wage"
and "So only a small percentage of those 28 million workers work full time"
"Look at the figures again?" When I see some I will look at them LOL ;)

Till the next economic slump, then I can watch the city slicks go down hard like last time in the early 90s. They never saw it coming then either. No street sense ;)
Talent and practical ability gets you through those times, but thats what city guys do`nt have. The last recession taught me a lot, I survived with my family intact many didnt.

Statisics can be paid for by whoever wants to get a point across whether right or wrong.
The UK Government makes theirs up to suit their own purposes as do the UK police and safety scamera partnerships :D

Spondonash

10-03-2007, 07:56 AM

I do like the fact that any stats that favour the UK are made up or twisted and those that favour Australia seem to be spot on. LOL. The assertion that you couldn't afford a plasma TV or satellite TV or whatever is just ridiculous. I'm sorry you had such a low wage in the UK but it's hardly fair to compare apples with oranges. I was earning more than you did installing kitchens in the South West around 7 years ago. My mate who has just got back from working in London loved it and as I said he earned twice what he did here and found almost everything around the same price. My friends have all the things you seem to believe don't exist in England, some even have 2 bikes and 2 cars and manage to eat out as well LOL. Some of your views on life in the UK are so far off the mark they aren't funny, well actually they are. Part of the reason most Aussies have such a distorted view of the UK is because ex Pats tell them they live in a one room house that they share with 2 other families and only eat 3 times a week and walk 5 miles to work because they can't afford to run a car.
I remember the last recession here when interest rates reached over 20 % and people were losing their homes left right and centre.
"just do the math an ave house costs 200-250k right ?
if ur household earns 38k a year the most banks will only give u 3.5 times ur salary so 3.5x38k=133000 if ur an average fam u have at least 1 kid so yer fuked really"
You can make up any scenario like this, what about here in Brisbane where houses are still relatively cheap. A house is say $300-400k and you earn say $30,000 a year ? Lets not mention Sydney house prices.
I have a brother who lives very happily in the UK and another brother who would move back tomorrow but his wife likes where they are.
My point is I am sure there are loads of people in the UK that have a tough life but to assume it doesn't happen here is just absurd.
You guys are obviously happy with your lives here as am I BUT don't let your memories get too clouded ;)