Katana electrical Problem HELP!!!!

[fimpBIKES]

hi there

the old kat wouldnt start this morning, it seemed like the battery was flat :(

so i put a new one in tonight (just incase you were wondering, chassis braces and battery swaps DONT mix...)
i had to put the acid in it and it is on the charger at the moment

but i dont think it has solved the issue
it still seems to be trying to pull WAAAY too much power from the battery when i hit the starter button

what u reckon?
assuming its now not the battery u think maybe a short in one of the ignition wires??

just organised a lift for work tomorrow, so that buys me another 24hours to sort it out :D

[TurboKat]

Check over your battery leads Fimp, especially make sure the earth lead is contacting well, use jumper leads to try different earth points if necessary. Also try bridging the starter solenoid to eliminate that. Failing that, it could be your starter clutch - it's fairly common on higher mileage units.

[fimpBIKES]

cheers turbo

how do i bridge the starter solenoid?
i have a electrical diagram but still havent found a manual, trying though

where is the starter clutch, on the starter motor?
is there any way to check that?

Is you're stator providing enough power Fimp, they deteriorate over time, and become unreliable, especially if the engine oil has been allowed to get low, it slowly cooks them. Lighting circuit is also an issue on Kats, check it around the steering head area.

I've got the GSX11 manual at home and can scan pics tonight if need be.

[fimpBIKES]

there is some funny business happening with the headlights now u mention it

i havent had power to the low beam for a while, hi-beam only

but doesnt the stator just effect the charging etc
would it worry the ignition?
(i supposed if it was completely buggered it might be earthing out?)

The stator chrages you're battery, while the rest of the bike draws from the battery, dodgy charging will result in a low battery.

Also, have you checked the acid levels in the battery, if it's dropping quickly then you are probably over charging, which can have a similar effect. When the Suzuki stators overheat, due to low oil, it degrades the coating around the armature windings, resulting in spikes coming from the stator. Will probably require a new regulator if this is the case. If so go for the Electrex one from the US, it fixes a lot of the faults with the original design. The Suzukis have a 3 phase stator, with only 2 phases being used when the lights are off, and all three when the lights are on. any problems with the regulator and you end up getting too much or too little power, depending whether lights are on or not.

The Electrex site (now called electrosport) has a very good electrical fault finding chart, specifically for motorcycles.
http://www.electrosport.com/electrosport_fault_finding.html

[fimpBIKES]

thanks chalk

but the battery is now a brand new one, fully charged (been on the trickle all day)
so if my lights have been playing up could that point to the reg u think?

i should mention that it IS cranking over, but it is pulling waaay too many amps in the process

i will keep that link aside though chalky, could come in handy ;)

[loosebruce]

The GS Resources website has an electrical fault finding chart that might help.
Could be as simple as bad earths or connections.
Oh the joys of 25 year old electricals.

[Large]

quote:Originally posted by chalk10

The stator chrages you're battery, while the rest of the bike draws from the battery, dodgy charging will result in a low battery.

Also, have you checked the acid levels in the battery, if it's dropping quickly then you are probably over charging, which can have a similar effect. When the Suzuki stators overheat, due to low oil, it degrades the coating around the armature windings, resulting in spikes coming from the stator. Will probably require a new regulator if this is the case. If so go for the Electrex one from the US, it fixes a lot of the faults with the original design. The Suzukis have a 3 phase stator, with only 2 phases being used when the lights are off, and all three when the lights are on. any problems with the regulator and you end up getting too much or too little power, depending whether lights are on or not.

The Electrex site (now called electrosport) has a very good electrical fault finding chart, specifically for motorcycles.
http://www.electrosport.com/electrosport_fault_finding.html


I wonder if that's why my low and high beams blew on the way home from asf...the oil was about half a litre low...[?]

[fimpBIKES]

oh, SPIKES
i get it

i might rip the cases off later tonight and check it out ;)

quote:Originally posted by Large


quote:Originally posted by chalk10

The stator chrages you're battery, while the rest of the bike draws from the battery, dodgy charging will result in a low battery.

Also, have you checked the acid levels in the battery, if it's dropping quickly then you are probably over charging, which can have a similar effect. When the Suzuki stators overheat, due to low oil, it degrades the coating around the armature windings, resulting in spikes coming from the stator. Will probably require a new regulator if this is the case. If so go for the Electrex one from the US, it fixes a lot of the faults with the original design. The Suzukis have a 3 phase stator, with only 2 phases being used when the lights are off, and all three when the lights are on. any problems with the regulator and you end up getting too much or too little power, depending whether lights are on or not.

The Electrex site (now called electrosport) has a very good electrical fault finding chart, specifically for motorcycles.
http://www.electrosport.com/electrosport_fault_finding.html


I wonder if that's why my low and high beams blew on the way home from asf...the oil was about half a litre low...[?]


Yep, that'll do it. classic symptom.

The Electex regulator (about $120 US from memory) also handles the spiking a lot better than the original item.
Check out Old Skool Suzuki, they have info on removing the stator, which can be a right bitch of a job on 90% of bikes

[fimpBIKES]

mmm, electex have a GS1100 stator
whould that do the job? it references the chassis number and i will need to check tonight
http://www.electrosport.com/shopping_stators/prod_esg020.html

only US$119 sounds like a solid investment

is there any way to see if the reg is stuffed?
i know on the SV u could unplug it and measure the resistance across it and it had to be within a certain range
the reg is US$99 so it would be nice if i could get away without it

does anyone know, if i take the side cover off the engine do i need the right gasket to put it back on
or do they have o-rings?

if she's off the road for a few weeks i might have to do this rear swingarm sooner than i thought ;)

They have a paper gasket Fimp, but only needs replacing if it's actually fekked. Get some thin gasket paper and make one up as needed. If you put it on the centrestand you shouldn't lose any oil. The Stator check though can be done without removing the cover. Just read the outputs on the external wiring connectors.

The Yanks call the GSX a GS (ie GSX1100EF = GS1150EF). I think that there is a difference in the diameter of the crank where the stator mounts between models. OSS has a thread on the subject.

There is a test for the regulator, I'l post the instructions tonight (for reg and alternator), quite straight forward, something along the lines of checking it's voltage output at certain revs, too much and it's been 'spiked'. There are a number of regulators that can be used in it's place (GPz's, CB's etc) which can be used, and sourced from wrecker's quite cheaply.

Oh one other thing with the GSX's, Kawasaki heavy duty clutch springs, for Z1000's and the like, are lighter than the Suzuki HD equivalents, do just as good a job, and don't require the hand-strength of the hulk to operate in traffic, and give you a few more miles out of worn clutch plates.. Something I discovered quite by accident some years ago.

[Hillsy]

Try these guys:

http://www.dropbears.com/r/rewinds/index.htm

Stator Rewind Service at Gosford. Could work out cheaper and quicker than shipping from US.

I rebuilt a EF a few years back and had to get a new stator and regulator (the original Suzuki ones are notoriously unreliable). I think it was about $120 each for aftermarket.

I think that the Electrex Regulator is worth the money, it's not just a copy of the original, it's a superior design. A stator is just a stator though, so either re-wind or replace, I've even known of people to rewind them themselves (fuggin masochists) quite successfully.


Do you have a manual Fimp?

I've got the factory GS1150 manual (no good for you, and I don't lend that one anyway), plus an aftermarket one for ALL GSX11's. Can send it up to you, if you promise to return it when finished.

[Ed74mnd]

hi there.. apparently its something to do with the 3 phase wiring of the stator etc.

this guy here has a write up

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/fischermk/electrical.htm


Cheers

Ed

[loosebruce]

The regulator on my GS is from a Honda,(don't know what)and was on when I bought it about 7 years ago.
Had a GSX400f with a fried stator and reg,managed to find a good second hand stator and aftermarket reg ($160) at the local wreckers.
Check the simple stuff first.

[fimpBIKES]

those tests would be AWESOME chalky
would really appreciate it

i jut ordered a manual at the bike shop today

i dont have a centre stand :(
but i do have a nice big wall i can lean it up on ;)


thanks everyone, your all champs

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/454521323167030.jpg

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/454521323340808.jpg

[fimpBIKES]

thanks again chalky,

hopefully i will get a chance to check this stuff out tonight

[fimpBIKES]

i think my reg is stuffed
measuring across it with the multimeter and all i get is infinite resistance no matter what i do :(

visually the stator looks ok
need to measure resistance on it though

[Large]

isn't the regulator some diodic stuff? did you measure it both ways? looks like lots of infinities in that chart

just measure across the battery at about 3-4000rpm and it should be something like 14.4 volts if it's much lower it aint charging and if it's much higher it'll boil your battery dry

[fimpBIKES]

nup large, it has infinite all over

it wont crank either so i cant measure things while its running

[fimpBIKES]

mmm, so i just took the voltmeter up to the stator

my theory is that if the insulation on it is stuffed in any place that it'll be earthing out on the engine casing yeah?
so i measured resistance from each of its 3 output bullet connections against the engine case, all times it was infinite
just to double check, if i held the probe i was testing onto the connections onto any of the stator mounting bolts than the measured resistance would be very small (as expected)

so i think that the stator is ok
the guy i bought the bike off assured me that it had been rewound recently and i have always been careful with the oil level so i guess i am in the clear there

shall order a new reg now,
but if the regulator is not letting any current through would that stop it cranking over?
doesnt make 100% sense...

[fimpBIKES]

cool, just called em up
ordering one of these now
http://www.electrosport.com/shopping_regulator_rectifiers/prod_esr130.html

[Large]

shouldnt stop it cranking

can you pull the cover off the back of the starter to access the cabling?

[fimpBIKES]

not sure what u mean,
i took the little cover off the starter motor

oh, i think u mean the actual button yeah?
i shall give that a look

i worked out why the oil pressure light flickers when its stationary,
little knick in the insulation so it was just earthing out some ;)
still, the new reg probably wouldnt hurt
might explain why my lights arent working properly

[Large]

no no no I meant the starter motor:)

the starter motor should have a thick wire going into it

if you jumper that terminal (don't short anything else!) to the battery +...and it turns over...you've got a switch or relay problem further back in the system

[fimpBIKES]

cheers large

an electrian at work just came to the same conclusion that it might be the starter motor
nice little test u have devised there large

thanks again

[Large]

I didn't devise it...it was the only way my Charger would start for about 6 months :D

[devo]

Go the Valiant, Chrysler are without a dought the
best Motor vehicle ever made ;).
MOPAR,
Move
Over
Power
Approaching
Rapidly,:D
Onya Large, See Ya at Oran Park Mate.

[Large]

Too fuxing right devo...this was my Charger for 11 years...sold it last november...and nearly cried...sometimes I feel sad when I see the big hole that it used to take up in the garage...I reckon another 10-15 bikes should fill that gap but:)

http://img91.imageshack.us/img91/2373/img1302a2fd.jpg

And now back to fimp's electrickery problems

[Zed14]

i told you how to fix the kat fimpy. and i will buy you the lighter if its funds your lacking.

[gibbo]

Nice one Large, when you said charger I thought you were talking valiant. By the way mate which prison were you visiting when that photo was taken[:0], you were only visiting I hope;)

[fimpBIKES]

thats not a prison, looks more like a public high-school to me :D

anyways, fuck off with your 4 wheeled shit [:p]





shall continue plugging away at it tomorrow
and yes, rexie i could take a match to it
after all it is insured for more than its worth.....

[loosebruce]

http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfault.htm
Cut and paste into yur browser
Hope it helps.

[fimpBIKES]

thanks bruce

the flow chart definitely points towards a stuffed reg
there is a new one on its way

[fimpBIKES]

ok, so getting back to the katana

rexie and mundy seemed to think my starter motor was stuffed
so i just pulled it apart this arvo

it seems that one of the 4 magnets on the inside of the case is cracked in half
could that cause any problems?
is it commen for them to crack?

anyways i guess i will get a new starter
the coil seems ok though, maybe i dont need one?

will post a pic once i get the camera

[Large]

don't know if its common but it'll fuck the pole spacing

[fimpBIKES]

got a spare?

[fimpBIKES]

ok, got a new starter motor from the previous owner (cheers trev)

$180 or so, its off a newer model (or the GS, not sure)
it looks a little different but fits just fine

its cranking over like a champ now :D

its just flattened the battery getting fuel into the carbs (i pulled em off to get to the starter motor bolts)
but it kicked a few times, im pretty confident that thats sorted it out :D
happy little boy, might have to take her for a spin tomorrow now

pity that rexie stole my exhaust can, oh well hopefully the neighbours dont mind ;)