PISSED OFF

[veetwo tls]

http://www.tlzone.net/forums/showthread.php?p=951599#post951599

[sluglie]

sorry man, cant read it, not a member

Same here. So what's the bitch mate?

[Gix11]

Me neither, not a member.

[Deano]

nor me

[fimpBIKES]

i can, but i am a member :D

strange though, u never had to do that on that forum until now

[veetwo tls]

a while back i had my bike in at the local stealership to have these mods done:

(here's a bit of what went on)

fit modded air box , K&N & removed plumbing from box & plug.
fit veypor dash.
fit daytona temp guage.
fit custom lights.
hide all wiring under tank.
fit atre switchable on/off.
TPS & TBS

they had the bike there for 6 mths 5 of those 6 stood idle in there back shead.

when thay rode it yesterday it sounded as if it was retarded/no guts.

just got bad news from the bike shop.

thay just finished the tps & tbs idling good to spec.

refitted everything thinking its ready to pick up .

restarted idling good then gave it two quick blips to about 6 to 7000rpm sat back to idle all good then buff black smoke ting,ting complete lock up no bang nothing

thay tryed to turn over at the crank with t-handle tool locked solid.
WTF is going on

bikes only done 20,000klm from new & was running good before no rattles except a small flat spot just of idle.

thay are at wits end & have no idea what it could be.

advice & any thoughts of what it could be please.



there pulling down to investergate now.

they change the oil and forget to put any new stuff in? could be many things

no id done a oil + filter change about 1200klm ago.

bikes been in there shop since 15/8/2005.

i keep a log book/recipts on all my bikes i know every nut & bolt or mod ive spent on them.

bike ran flawlesly before hand. appart from what i stated it had a slight flat spot just off idle than ran & pulled strong.

rifleman: suggested spun crank bearing shell or valves. which ive passed on.

it just seems strange for an engine to let go with out any warning (well from past experiances with other bikes).

just a thought thay thought it may be running rich one stage.

if so would that fill the sump with unburnt fuel & cause hydrolic lock up?

any progress on this?

no mate thay called me about 1 1/2 to 2 hours pryer to closeing for the long week end.
will not hear anymore untill tuesday.

Dunno mate - you're not having much luck either at the mo, eh

if it had only been running a very short while, I would start at the top and work down - valves, etc., ........

I would have thought it would take most of a tank of fuel to get to hydraulic lock, but it would be worth checking first.....

Good luck

has the bike been sitting for a fair while?i ask as i was talking to a mate on phone about your problem,when i asked him about hydraulic lock up he reckond if a bike been sitting a long time its best to take out plugs and crank over a few times to avoid hydralic lock but i cant imagine your bikes been sitting that long. hope you get it sorted.

WTF??

surely valves would have to make noise yeah?
did they drain the rad and forget to fill it or something...

I cannot agree witht he hydraulic lock theory. Since it ran at first and then suddenly locked, there's no way anything could have filled the engine so fast that it locked so sudden.
I'm thinking they made an oil change or something and forgot to refill it. Ran it dry till it stuck.
Either that, or they dropped something in one of your tb's that got caught in one of the cylinders.

ive been thinking somethings gone down the tb's too.
if i remember in the tbs & tps video the guy highly stated to be careful not to drop something there(disconected) down the tb's.

the other is im wondering if thay forgot to put coolent back in the radiator & cooked it?

its the only lodgical things that i think it could be.
thay said everything seemed to be working.

[veetwo tls]

Get the bike back, take it to someone that knows what the fuck they're doing, get them to photo every stage of any strip down, and give the first shop the bill with the photos, if no joy sue the arses off them.

This is a good lesson to all,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,don't let fucking idiots tough your pride and joy!!

For what you've payed them in labour you could have bought all the tools and did all the work yourself.

I'm with something down the intake also. Bet it held a valve open for a while hence the poor running and then it finally fell in. Hence the lockup.

Had the same thing happen to me with a cage once although the object went down the plug hole, not an intake. Shop did the right thing though and stood up to ALL the repairs.

This a bike dealer we're talking about, be prepared for them to insist the bike wasn't running when you dropped it off, and there is no way one of their mechanics would do something like that!

Bloody hell you're having some crap luck with your bike, from what I've read I can't really add an opinion but it sounds like your bike was pretty much ok until they got their hands on it? What the hell kind of shop are they running? I'd be on the heavy side of pissed off by now, I hope they're not planning on giving you a bill at the end of all this !!

Originally posted by silent_bob
This a bike dealer we're talking about, be prepared for them to insist the bike wasn't running when you dropped it off, and there is no way one of their mechanics would do something like that!


thay know me quite well & know the bike was running (in good cond). i road it in there & around to there back shed.

id be in & out that shop at least once a week buying something.

if i had a house & shed most of all the work i would had done my self.

i dont know whats going on . thay were a good dealership well thay are a good crew but the quality / workman ship in the mechanic side has deteriated. thay seem to be rushing everything to get quantity out but its killing there quality. i know thay are short of two mechanics but thats no excuse.

http://www.bridgeland.com.au/

My guess is it dropped a valve. Maybe a broken/weak spring at first was keeping it from revving. Then the retainers popped out and bombs away. Just a guess. I was a Honda Tech in the late 70's while getting my finance degree. Poor revving, ting ting and then lock up kinda reminds me of when a sick slow revving Honda let go in our shop. It was not pretty inside when we tore it down.

Had a kinda similar thing a number of years ago with my GPZ600R. Shop did some work on the bike. When they started it there was a rattleing sound then a BANG. It was a 10mm washer down the carb. It did massive internal damage considering its size.

They took full responsibility & paid out for a recon engine for me.

[veetwo tls]

update:
just been down to the shop had a talk with the manager(graham)

first thay will look after me.
thay realise the bike was in excelent condition when it arrived(manager was there when i pulled up) & heard it running.

he is extremely sorry for the time its taken & appoligises for the ( mechanic with the bad back for pushing the bike to aside all the time. his job prospects ? ? ?) .
new mechanic starting next week(older guy).
i told graham only on mechanic works on my bikes... then he knows whats done & not.

justin the mechanic who is working on my bike had everything running perfect all working good-spent little time doing it /he keept his head down & done the job fitting everything.
then restarted gave two throttle blips sounded real responsive & crisp shut it down then tryed to restart straight away locked up. no bang,clunk,rattle nothing.

thay worked after hours last night & this morning on the bike.

checked:

heads & valves OK.

droped oil LIKE NEW no fuel in it.

on the magnet it had very very small amount of brass/copper but nothing realy unusual to normal wear deposits.

all gears in side cases , cam gears look OK.

in the oil pump side thay checked with a long telescopic magnet in the nooks & cranny areas & found a very small black bit of metal ? ? ? but so far all looks good.

thay realise the mods ive had done thay would not have caused this.
its something completely different that happend.

so ive passed all info on to them.

thay will be back at it tuesday
& thay wont let it leave untill there 100% confident .like graham said he does'nt want it to do it again after it leaves & kills me.

graham stated & i was told 12mths ago that im classed as there top customer & its the last thing thay wanted to happen to me of all there customers.
he will look after me.

but so far its locked solid but no clue whats the cause is.

thay tryed to turn it over on the crank with a T-handle socket its that tight it undone the nut.

so ill keep you guys updated & time will tell.

my baby's sitting there naked & cold.

not a bad result,at least they are going to stand by you. doesnt give you your bike back yet but at least your not going to have any money issues to argue over.

yeh im happy with that approx 30 hours spent on the bike so far.

do they have any suitable loaner bikes for you to ride in the mean time

cb 250
thay do have a cbr1000rr & 600rr on the show floor new
ive got the XR630 to get around on.

Q:

there going to pull it down.

so if theres top end damage is there any mods to do while its in that state? & whats involved in doing it.
(but still want to run pump fuel)

IE: TLR pistons & ? ? ?

good on ya mate,never miss a chance to do some modding

i may as well do it while its pulled down. save time & money down the track.
i dont want to go stupid though with mods. i wish i could but the $$$ are getting thin & the wife's patients

Q: you guys that have thrown main bearings. was there any type of warning & knock or anything?

there thinking its what may have happend. but there pulling it right down & going over everything untill the problems found & fixed.

the reason i ask. it had no noise.
thay test road it & it felt not right (laiging)
then thay shut it down & let it cool. then turned over about twice on startup and locked up no noise nothing.

update:
top end excelent
cylinders , pistons & rings excelent
oil gullys excelent

bad news:
both rods locked solid. we all know what that means

there splitting the crank cases tomorrow. sussing out clearances(wether thay were to low at OEM or just shit batch of bearings from OEM etc to try and see what caused it.

justin explained to me its hard to see the copper filings due to the screw on fielters compared to the paper element filters .
plus thay have a raised sump hence the reason when you drop the oil the filings dont come out with the oil.

Q: whats the clearances on the main bearings?

Good luck with the re-build, hopefully you can work something out with the mechanics

only thing i can say is it's strange it happened now at the shop
you say 20000 k's and no probs ,now it's in the shop,bang it goes,both rods bound up on the big end right? sounds like what a couple of others said done an oil change and forgot the oil,,i know it's different but i own a mower shop and if a mower comes in with clean oil, it will still get a change,just to make sure and to add the little extra's to the bill,maybe thats what they done,but forgot to top it back up,,whatever happens as long as it dont cost you anything then it's not all bad

I think the rod clearances are the same with the mains being reduced in 99,maybe in an effort to get more or reliable oil supply to the rods........ If the rods picked up when it was shut down then hopefully you may get away with linishing or polishing the journals and new shells...fingers crossed

like i stated before they are going to look after me.

the manager graham has been doing some history of owner ship for me.
there were two tl range sold from new one mine the other TLr-yellow but they not sure who owned which bike both previous owners worked on there bikes as far as they know. & both loved doing long mono's up the road but one of the two road there bike extremely hard (experianced track rider) but they dont thing mine was used as a track bike.

thanks again for the info les & everyone else with info.

update:
bottom end pulled down.

whats stuffed:

crank-needs replacing damaged to much to relinish.

both rods-ill get replaced with wiseco or corillo.

oil pump.

clutch baskett-previous owner butcherd it(made rough washer spacers which caused basket to crack.

approx $2200AUD in parts

[veetwo tls]

oooh, for that price u could almost get an exchange engine...

yeh i know but at least i now this gear is new & there helping out in costs.

im going to hunt around for a second hand tlr clutch. for them though

top end is still like new.

too bad shipping to Aus is expensive...I have a 2001 TLS motor with ~15k on it...front cyl exhaust valve went up through valve seat....motor is still sitting in frame (minus front head)...looks like you could use it.


really sorry to hear about your luck though...i just went and got another bike rather than try to fix...it was june and i wanted to ride...hehe ....plus, i already had so many spares it didnt seem to matter...if you are interested though..let me know.

Sounds a bit suspect to me mate, if the crank had gone that much, they would have heard it banging like a bastard before it stopped!

CRANK+RODS:
just looked at the crank main bearings perfect. the rod shells have slipped & fucked the crank.
everything else is perfect.

CLUTCH:
the previous owner has put hmmm well spacers/washers to strengthen the clutch springs to stop slipping.

DISCRIPTION OF THE SPACERS/WASHERS:
shit how do discribe it! this is after 15min thinking how to discribe. NO BULL SHIT.

best i can work out get a pice of galvenised coated water pipe cut washers.
hears the sickening part thay were not cut straight/thickness--on one end say 21/2mm the other 1/2 to 1mm thick & half rounded edges the rest cut like a nut edge. ALSO he put say 3 behind one spring , 2 , 1, 3 etc etc which has caused the clutch basket to crack plus its badly worn & plates.

PS: this is no bull shit ill get one of the (i dont realy want to call them this its an insult to a washer) washers next time i go in there & post up so you all can see.

the previous owner use to mono on the freeway & up the main street for 3 to 5 klm.
he's in a wheel chair now he wraped his mates brand new CBR1000RR & him self around a tree doing the same shit.

"JUSTICE DISERVED"

what was used as clutch spring spacers:
burrs & all left on.
http://www.postwhore.biz/albums/userpics/10073/normal_was.jpg (http://www.postwhore.biz/albums/userpics/10073/was.jpg)
http://www.postwhore.biz/albums/userpics/10073/normal_was%20_1_.jpg (http://www.postwhore.biz/albums/userpics/10073/was%20_1_.jpg)


Look on the bright side,at least they wouldn't have rusted

it makes my eye's weep & sick in the guts to look at it.

That's just mental!

isnt that darwin thingy supposed to REMOVE people like that from the gene pool?

sounds like the previous owner got off lightly

Originally posted by fimp-bikes
isnt that darwin thingy supposed to REMOVE people like that from the gene pool?

sounds like the previous owner got off lightly


lets just say he's lucky he is in a wheel chair.

anyway like mike ford said after all is fixed ill have a new engine.

Veetwo I have just been reading your thread dude, I started to stress. Thinking what I had done to the Air box when modding it for you, that could have gone down the TB's

I feel for you but I am also glad it was nothing to do with the Air-box.
As for the TOSSER that could put those shims (loosely named) in the clutch, what a dickhead.

no mate nothing to do with here.
everythings cool.

its all to do with the butcher'er who originaly owned it.
he lives in mannum 30klm from me.

Go and have a word

not being nasty but he wont be able to run away when he sees you coming eh mate

if he was walking yes he will get a visit & a few ?'s & words.
but i just cant do it to someone in a chair.

also remember the guys at the shop have been put in a predicoment over this to.
its made them look bad-they sold the bike to me unknowing of the internals botched up in the bike-which reflects on them & still under finance plus its let go in there care.
at least they are helping out with out a complaint.
there pissed with this guy as much as i am.

I was thinking when I read this crank problem until I read the end.


I have one question and you don't have to answer. How much money is this going to cost you to fix her after the shop does it's thing?

personaly i think thay should becouse its in there care. but its not there fault either. i hope?

im happy to cover the mods i originaly had the bike in for.

nothings been really said appart they said they'll look after me. id expect at least 50%.

if it gets real messy ill have to get my bike trailerd to the nearest place 80klm away to be fixed .

im in a catch 22 situation. i just cant run down the street to a different shop.


thoughts

You gotta play it by ear and see what they come up with.
Maybe 50 % like you said would be fair, although I'd still argue the toss.

also ill ad ive delt with this shop for a good 20 years had good service & watched 3 ownerships pass through it.

in the past ive walked out with parts up to $2000 on my bill. i just say to them ill fix you up in a couple of weeks. there reply yeh not a problem.

fuck em.....you own them mate,it thumped in there good you own thr fuckers .....sweet


Quote:
Originally posted by MIKE FORD
fuck em.....you own them mate,it thumped in there good you own thr fuckers .....sweet


Can't really understand why you'd say that after veetwo says this...

Quote:
Originally posted by veetwo tls
also ill ad ive delt with this shop for a good 20 years had good service & watched 3 ownerships pass through it.

in the past ive walked out with parts up to $2000 on my bill. i just say to them ill fix you up in a couple of weeks. there reply yeh not a problem.

This shop sounds like it takes care of its customers and doesn't try to stick it to them. Why should a customer now try to stick it to the shop? Fair's fair and even though the shop is a "for profit" enterprise, if you don't/can't do the work or obtain the parts elsewhere, isn't a shop (or anyone) entitled to charge for their expertise? Afterall, it cost THEM time/money to get it.

I think it would be different if veetwo had a 20 year adversarial relationship with them, but it just doesn't sound that way to me.

Just my opinion though.

just got news
all parts were in stock in australia except 1 set of rings 3 weeks wait on back order.
so bottom end goes back together next week.
woohoo

[veetwo tls]

UPDATE:
my super douper mega hard TLs sorry i could not resist it .

anyway
WOOoooHOOooo its back togeather
i pick the bike up tomorrow afternoon.

half lengh cans alll yea baby the sound instant hard on cant wait for burnhard's pipes to arrive

whats in side the motor
TLr crank,bearings,corilla rods etc etc i just told them to make it strong but keep it reliable the same as my other bikes. thay know what i mean anyways.

veypor dash all working man these are sweet.
done thermastat/temp sensor mod.
the lights im not to shore about need comments on that but its leagle just LOL

so yah

still needs paint work later down the track but all the expencive work is about done.

pics later so be paitent

awsome news,still plenty of summer left to enjoy it.look forward to the pics.

thanks mate im happy as a pig in shit at the moment

ont know if this is new or old news

the TLs rod shells have been upgraded by suzuki to TLr shells.
due to spinning them on the crank all the time.

just thought id share this


Quote:
Originally posted by veetwo tls
UPDATE:
my super douper mega hard TLs sorry i could not resist it .



Must feel soooo good having her back on her wheels!

yeh it fells good. i missed her after 7 mths.
looking forward to after it ran in.
then i can get some decent readouts on the veypor HP etc

ive got a cool paper weight-crank & rods

Suggest buying the suz workshop manual and some tools.....a good camera.... take ya time n learn how to rebuild bud..... will save ya stacks of loot and having to deal with dicks charging ya for learning on ya baby i think what nine o nine about some object dropped in the tbs or no coolent in the water cans maybe the cause bro .....my heart goes out to ya ......nothing worst than paying monkeys to do a complete screw up hey

well ive seen the bill.

with all my mods: lights fitted , front rotors fitted , veypor fitted , thermostat mod & temp guage fitted , exhaust cans lazer cut to half length , TPS & TBS , fit bicycle speedo
& unexpected rebuild: crank , rods , rings , oil pump , gaskets , clutch plates metal & fibre , barnett springs & pressure plate.

with 10% off parts & labour the total comes to $5500AUD. WTF

Alright ?????

im not happy steve but what can i do about it.

im still waiting on a work shop print out.

WOW $5500 seems a bit steep

Forget it . Buy another bike somewhere else . They can keep that one for themselves......shame though it looks ace.

ive allready got it back & to replace stock im looking at $7000AUD to $10500AUD.
& then + mods on top.

[veetwo tls]

as you seniour member will remember this post:
http://www.tlplanet.com/forums/showt...threadid=60842
http://www.tlzone.net/forums/showthr...ght=update+tls

well this is the latest saga:

man have i had a fucked last 2 days.
monday morning went to start the XR to go to work. wont start
jump on the TL wont start
what the fuck's going on lost a days pay approx $200AUD

so pull the tank etc on the XR (more important its my wet weather bike) dodgy coil lead.
buy new coil only sold as a compleat unit.after market $45AUD + new plug $12AUD
refit no fucken spark still. suspect the exciter has buggerd up again if so the third time . new one 6mths ago .
so booked bike in the local shop to get fixed & im told thay wont touch my bikes untill ive payed out the $2400AUD bill which ive been paying them weekly originaly about $5'000AUD (about $1'500AUD was my mods it was sent in for)
BRIDGELAND MOTORCYCLES which in the first place fucked my engine THE TLS-whilst in there care of 6 mths. 5 of which sat in there shed not touched.
the TLs originaly went in for light moded,satre fitted & other streetfighter mods OH & TBS & TPS WHICH WAS NOT DONE.

so much for them saying dont worry well look after you your one of our top customers. all i got was a 10% discount on parts & labour BIG FUCKEN DEAL i can get 10% at mc donalds takeaway

im ready to fuck'en brake neacks.

they fucked with the wrong person......

oh yah sorry makenzie ( i vented this on him) hes probably wondering what the fuck


i now have a TLs hit & miss starting. it badly needs TBS & TPS. a cant get it done( im not conferdent to do this on my own plus dont have vacume gages).
and also a non running XR.

THE DEALERS TO AVOIDE http://www.bridgeland.com.au/

[veetwo tls]

Go down there in your work gear after a hard day in the sheds, dirty apron, boots etc & all ... see if that changes their minds about how to deal with you

that sucks

[veetwo tls]

so thats basicly it :(

ruby one of TLz members is coming up on saturday to do the TPS & TBS on the TLs :) at least i'll have reliable transport still for work.

the XR is off the road untill i pay up the rest of the bill $2,400AUD.. (dont worry well look after you. your one of our top customers)

$2,000AUD i deposited into my account with them the day my bike was booked in.

ive been paying $100AUD & +
which payments were agread on week to week basis.

now they can wait until 5 mths. like i had to :D

my eyes started stinging about half way thru the topic. What was the verdict?

[veetwo tls]

quote:Originally posted by davo

my eyes started stinging about half way thru the topic. What was the verdict?



i got hit with the lot $ with 10% discount (10% i think mac donalds hand them out).

the thing thats realy pissed me off is.

thay said thay would look after me. being top customer etc etc.
i let the mistry engine blow up ride when it was in there care for 6 months- 5 months of which they just pushed it to a side. the bike ran perfect & the manager graham even heard & sore me ride in with it.

i payed upfront $2000AUD.
done the right thing paying the bill which payments agreed apon $100AUD p/week or more if can.

then both bikes playing up monday morning:
XR - electrical:ive replaced coil & plug . so suspect is the exciter it was the prob last time.

TLs - never got the TBS & TPS done when i asked so it running up shit & is hit & miss starting before the battery is flat from cranking.

i asked if they do the TPS & TBS (WHICH THEY NEVER DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE- the mechanic (which has quit) told me) so ive got reliable transport for work.
& they refused to work on any of my bikes untill the bill is payed.

DONT WORRY MATE WELL LOOK AFTER YOU [B)]

[Booster]

That truly sucks

Is there a record of kms before and after?
Do you have the damaged parts available for a second opinion.an experianced person can usually trace a trail of destruction to an origional cause(esp considering circumstances when it locked)

[veetwo tls]

quote:Originally posted by Booster

That truly sucks

Is there a record of kms before and after?
Do you have the damaged parts available for a second opinion.an experianced person can usually trace a trail of destruction to an origional cause(esp considering circumstances when it locked)



no ive chucked the crank & rods now. i held onto the crank thinking about refilling/welding the gouges but decided not to.
but they were very blue like got extreamly hot ????? like no oil.ive wonderd if they droped the oil & forgot to refill. its crossed my mined.

bugger wished i'd kepped them now.

with the KLM one of the original jobs the bike went in for was remove the instraments & replace with the veypor. so realy NO no record.

[Booster]

If there was no oil the damage would probably start at the cams and work down from there.without parts the original diagnosis can't be confirmed or challenged
Also as you have asked for expensive aftermarket upgrades the costs are what they are. BUT i would be pissed too about there current lack of care after spending that much !:(

[Hillsy]

My heart was sinking as I read through your story - what a shit thing to happen. I know this is probably not going to help any, but I know a few mechanics and wreckers who reckon they've seen quite a few TL /TLR's come their way with blown bottom ends from extended monos (you mentioned in the story about previous owners doing long wheelies?). Don't know if this is particular to any model year, but it would be the result of oil starvation to the bottom end.
Like I said, that probably ain't gonna help - sorry you had to go through all that crap.