Chopper Underground Buildoff just commenced [Archive] - Page 2

stevo

31-01-2006, 06:47 PM

Those that can ... DO

. Those that wish they could .... just hang shit ....

Here's somethin I wrote on another site to help others out .... make of it what you will .. but keep in mind I run my own shop (where I do mainly performance engine/tuning and custom work) and by posting stuff like this, I may be doin myself out of work .. although I've found that doesn't seem to be the case..

http://www.xlforum.net/vbportal/forums/showthread.php?t=4465

This specifically applies to late model HD's but some of it can also be applied to jap or other bikes ... certainly in the principles..so it may be a handy reference for those playin with their own tuning..

newf fighter

01-02-2006, 08:56 AM

We need a shit stirring smilie.

chopaweeza

01-02-2006, 12:28 PM

Fuck off Newf. This is a Build Thread and not a Piss & Moan Thread. Take your shit elsewhere.

Anyway- The build.. Am in the middle of re-aligning my frame jig. I found it was out by 2.5mm at one point. I'm reworking it by cutting everything off and redoing it all with correct alignment. 2.5mm may not sound like much but in handling terms its riding straight or pulling to one side if I left it.The shed is an oven. Thank fuck for cold beer.

Chopper Underground--Let me explain about it. It was a magazine with a supplement website. After 6 issues the Owner, Mark Jones, effectively just dropped off the face of the earth. He's still collection subscription money and owns about half the people on the board issues/money. He still lives but appears to have become a reclusive internet scam artist. That was in late 2004. The site has kept going because one of the members kept paying the server provider . The money recently ran out again so I don't know how long it will stay open. There have been numerous attempts to get the rights to the board off Mark and at least one attempt to buy the lot off him with no success. When the board goes under for the last time the entire Buildoff will be moved to another site and I will list the links here. Anyway, I have a jig to re-finish.

stevo

01-02-2006, 01:24 PM

ouch 2.5 mm is a fair bit in the wrong spot .....

I use a cheapy lazer to get centre or a parallel and then measure from it .... it's easy as it shows up on the metre rule....

Might be worth a look Wazza ....

Have you got any plans to buy a TIG??? I realise ya got some other issues at the moment but a steel only machine will set ya back less than $1500 and ya can use the mig to tack and then finish off with the TIG ... gives a lot prettier/stronger weld.

One of the reasons I bought mine is because I intend getting into frame building at a later date ... at the moment I'm just doin repairs and stunt cages and getting a feel for the machine and neatening my welds..
I bought an AC/DC machine so I can weld my alloy heads up and put the material where I like ... it's sorta hard to explain where I want it to other people ... but fucken easy for me to get it spot on myself ... and I'm gonna be doin quite a bit of development on the sporty to get it down to the numbers I want..

chopaweeza

01-02-2006, 07:09 PM

I'll look into the lasers. As nothing is symetrical on 5 of the 7 engine mounts it's a tough engine to get center on as well. The 2 upper cylinder mounts are what I have to go off and I'm using a plum bob to center off them. A major pain but worth it. I've been sweating bullets in the <s>Sauna</s>Shed. Got the left side tacked to the swingarm pivot mount and it looks OK. Will hopefully do the other side tomorrow if I can stand the heat for long enough. The pictures(tomorrow) will show the lower frame rail bulging out around the cylinders and back again. I'm using a notcher that I borrowed off a mate and it's a beauty. It's slow going compared to every rigid I've done but I'll keep plugging away until it's done. Eventually when things settle down I'd like a Tig but for now the Mig does the job OK. Regardless I'll keep pluggin away and keep posting pictures.

I get several mails a day from people interested in building their own either completely or in part. It's very strange being a poster boy for doing things properly but it's a responsibilty to so people the right way to do things as a professional builder mate pointed out.A note to people thinking of doing their own parts or even frame-If I can build a frame then you can build one too. Research, practice, the right advise and the will to do it are what you need to really start on your own. Have a go, it's the Aussie way. You may suprise yourself.

fimpBIKES

01-02-2006, 11:12 PM

cant wait to see the pics chop

chopaweeza

02-02-2006, 11:08 AM

Here ya go. I'm now running a 6 inch rear rim so i've made allowances in the design to be able to offset the front spocket to run a wider tyre if I want to. Done a bit of mockup for the right side and will start bending tube after lunch. The rear engine plates/swingarm mounts need to have the cross braces attached yet and it's off those that I'll hang the shock mounts. I was able to avoid replacing the rear jig brackets but a re-work of the steering head bracket is essential. I'm re-designing and updating the area while I'm at it to make it better. I'll take a few hours break while the heat is at it's worse-It's 48 degrees on the thermometer in the shed so I'll let it cool down a bit first before doing the right side

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/Build6.jpg

chopaweeza

02-02-2006, 11:25 AM

N.B. I don't use tube spacers on finished bikes. They are easier to modify during buildup and when finished I get proper ones made up. None of that OCC crap measures in my shed

Gix11

02-02-2006, 12:31 PM

That's coming together great mate. 48 degrees in the shed don't sound like much fun though. I can't imagine your welding in Speedos and thongs mate so it's probably even hotter than that in your gear. Beer should help.

stevo

02-02-2006, 12:42 PM

Lookin good mate ..lookin good..

I can appreciate the heat ... my shed gets over 40 with high humidity .... OK with the fan on but when I'm TIG'n it's NO fan ..... I end up soaked and regularly zap myself 'cos my gloves get so bloody wet from sweat ... that HF finds the easy path every time... :D

Another trick for motor alignment when ya got mounts that are different is to take a side or clutch or primary cover off and run a straight edge along that to give you a line parrallel to centre ... with that you can usually use that as a reference for everything from headstock to swingarm pivot as you can angle it up and down to run next to where ya measurin...

I have a metre rule that is 1/8" thick ... works real well for that as it sits square

chopaweeza

02-02-2006, 03:06 PM

Working in the heat leads to mistakes as I'm all too aware. It's an oven in there so I'll wait til this evening. The thermal cut out switch on my 4" grinder cut in after 60 seconds use. Time for a few Rum & Cokes me thinks. Errors are an integral part of building one off frames or parts. The more complicated it is the more you have. They are easily corrected but eat time. When I built my first rigid I used twice as much tubing as I thought I would , took 4 times longer that I thought and realised that alot of internet"Fact" is unsupported bullshit. The engine is now squared and centered, the swingarm pivot mounts are exactly where I want them and the next frame I build like this will take alot less time thanks to the lessons learned on this one. And for the record, I was welding in thongs, singlet and shorts with gloves. So Si, stop giving Puppet a thrill by suggesting I weld in Speedo's OK......

Here's an odd thing too, a few weeks ago I was up getting a burger when this bloke walks up and asks if I was a member of the Chopper Underground as he recognised my Satan Is My Bitch shirt from my avatar there. I told him yes so we got to talking about bikes and the Buildoff. He started raving about the fact that someone was chopping a Sportsbike for the contest and was questioning the sanity of anyone that would do that. After about 5 minutes of this I revealed my secret identity as Builder IO17 . After he picked up his jaw he gave me a Q&A about the bike to confirm I wasn't yanking his chain and was the builder of the Gixxer. He then rushed out to his car, got a printout of the Mock Up picture I submitted about a month ago and had me autograph it for him. Very strange indeed but a nice bloke none the less.

03gixxerpilot

02-02-2006, 03:07 PM

looking good choppa, nice to see the progress as it goes along.

Deano

02-02-2006, 04:13 PM

looks good mate keep up the good work

stevo

02-02-2006, 04:44 PM

quote:Originally posted by chopaweeza

realised that alot of internet"Fact" is unsupported bullshit.

ya not wrong there ... when we set the XLforum I jumped on heaps of guys that were passin stuff off as fact when it was obvious they'd copied it from somewhere else ...

Quite a number of established "facts" are nothing more than urban myth because some cockhead tells some other cockhead it's true and then the next one passes it along as "truth" and away it goes..

I kept asking guys to substantiate their claims and we "lost" a few "experts" along the way.... ;)

After a short while ya get to be able to pick the guys that know their shit and the fuckwitts that are just full of shit.....

Gix11

02-02-2006, 04:51 PM

Fuck me Wayne, now you're the Burger Bar Hero as well! You'll have to get autographed pictures of the finished bike mate to keep the bloody fans happy.

Gix11

02-02-2006, 05:40 PM

There's some good work going on on that thread. I008 came back with a good looking shape, long and low from a Virago, fair play to him. I007's got some nice lines going on there as well. I'm not knocking the man's work but I018 just doesn't do it for me with that squashed up look, all short and high. His frame seems really simplistic compared to yours Wayne, probably due to the fact it's rigid (or is that just my lack of knowledge shining through?)

chopaweeza

02-02-2006, 07:51 PM

I'm actually mates with most of the other builders. None are attempting as complex a design as mine but to achieve a credible result they don't have to. I had a few design ideas that facinated me and with my choice of powerplant I had an opportunity to try them. I'm not really aiming to win but to improve my building skills. Thats why my design is more complex. This motor in a rigid like IO18's would look spastic to say the least so I had to put alot more thought into making it work and making it look like it was made with it specifically in mind rather than an afterthought. From the work I've seen the others do I can see what most are trying to achieve and understand the style they are trying to conform to. I have respect for first time builders like Ray and his Virago because he's never done this before. A simple rigid frame is a complex piece to build , a standard swingarm is alot harder and a frame like I'm attempting is incredibly complex. Personally, I'm not really impressed with rigids that are basically hardtailled swing arm frames . I've built a couple but feel that if you are going to that sort of effort you should take it a step further and build a whole new frame. Thats just an opinion. While IO07 is almost finished that doesn't suprise me as he has been documented and filmed building a frame like that in 4 hours. I want to see what gets done with the BSA A65 as well. There are some brilliant builders with different skill levels and different styles so the end of march will see some of the most diverse group of custom bikes you'll see just about anywhere.

chopaweeza

03-02-2006, 09:27 AM

Work continues. Here's proof. The right side is a pig to right using just one piece. I could make it easier out of 2 but it wouldn't be as strong or good looking. This was attempt 2. I'll have another go after beer break

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a130/chopaweeza/Benderman.jpg

chopaweeza

03-02-2006, 10:19 AM

Heres the February Buildoff link. http://www.chopperunderground.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=16432&pid=135730&st=0#entry135730

Large

03-02-2006, 04:59 PM

Good to see you're wearing your Taiwanese safety boots:D

Seriously though I got nfi about working steel, but I thought you heated and shaped it? Do you just bend it like they do at the exhaust shops?

fimpBIKES

03-02-2006, 08:15 PM

u have to get steel pretty bloody well hot before it helps
and cos there is a fair bit of it, the heat would get soaked up pretty quick

good news is that steel is pretty ductile, and that method is pretty good especially if u are using seamless tube

newf fighter

04-02-2006, 07:49 AM

That tube bender is spiff! You have an asortment of dies for it Wayne? All custom made dies too I assume?

Looking real good, can't wait to see a big profile shot of it.

chopaweeza

04-02-2006, 12:58 PM

That Fat Tony is an evil man. Came over last night , forced me to drink copious amounts of Bourbon & Rum and made me play pool very baddly. The bender is a design by Blackjack of Blackjack Custom's in the UK. The design and other super useful things are at http://www.thefont.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/bikes/index.htm. The design is easily adapted to several different sizes of tubing by changing the hub and guide to the appropiate size. This one uses a hub off an 85' Holden Barina. I hope the Berocca kicks in before work tonight...... Now ezcuse me,I feel another spew coming on

chopaweeza

04-02-2006, 01:29 PM

Well, that was the best part of me gone.While you can pre-heat tubing in a professional bender on this one it's not a good idea due to the close tolerances and the filler used to gap fill the die. In this type of bender if you pre-heat the tubing it softens the metal making it less strong while it is hot but easier to bend. When you then force it into the bender(remember metal expands when heated) and bend it around the heated metal losses some of it's ability to stay in a round shape. It then then flattens itself out against the hub face. Another negative is that when it distorts it wedges itself in sloid and has to be cut out ruining the tubing . I'm describing what actually happened when I did it rather than what might happen in a theoretical design. You can anneal the tubing and let it cool naturally which will make the tubing easier to bend. Personally, I use it stock for sereval reasons-Less time involved, the finished piece is stronger due to work harding , less jamming and it's safer to handle cold steel than hot steel. Having said that, there are occasions were I do use heat on the steel, When I want the welded join to flow better(the headstock is an area I do this carefully)and when I'm finished a frame I stress relieve the frame by heating the whole thing with it firmly clamped into the frame jig to stop the frame pieces retaining a memory and distorting in use.

loosebruce

05-02-2006, 10:32 PM

Thats abloody balltearer of an idea for a bender, might hava go at making one.

Tony Nitrous

07-02-2006, 05:25 PM

Chop,

On the subject of frames, The UK custom bike mag (full of Harleys)
"Back Street Hero's" Issue 261 Jan 06, has a 3 page write up
on D.I.Y Build-Your-Own-Frame-Jig.
If you get to see / beg / borrow a copy I would be interested
to hear your opinion.
Might see if I can get it copied or scanned.

Thanks,

Tony.J.

fimpBIKES

07-02-2006, 05:29 PM

someone has to have a scanner??!!??!?!!?!

Large

07-02-2006, 05:54 PM

I've got a scanner. Don't got the mag though

chopaweeza

07-02-2006, 06:05 PM

That article was written by a Mr Bridges. "Mr Bridges" is an alias for a certain well known frame building mate of mine. I've got both but have agreed not to breach copyright on anyy article he's written previously.

Tony Nitrous

07-02-2006, 06:39 PM

quote:Originally posted by chopaweeza

That article was written by a Mr Bridges. "Mr Bridges" is an alias for a certain well known frame building mate of mine. I've got both but have agreed not to breach copyright on anyy article he's written previously.

Do I take that as a thumbs up "OK" then ? ;)
Seemed to make sense,
Look forward to reading more of his.

Thanks,

Tony.J.

stevo

13-02-2006, 11:00 AM

Bought the mag the other day .... havn't had a chance to read it properly yet but looks like it might have a few usefull tips in that article ..

Will probably incorporate some of those design features into my jig when it gets built ..... although I'll have a perimeter on my jig because I wanna use it for frame straightenin and repair more than building from scratch..... first on on it will be the Trumpy, as it's got a cracked frame

stevo

13-02-2006, 11:00 AM