k series GSXR front end into early GSXR

[Deano]

So you have got yourself a straight set of 2001 and onwards K series GSXR forks and top and bottom triples. And you want to put them onto your slabbie, slingshot or pre SRAD water cooled GSXR.



The main difference is the fork centres and offsets, they different from early ( 214x35) and late (207x32)



The swap is quite easy with the right parts.



http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/100472955664129.jpg

[Deano]

There is 2 ways of preforming this swap. The thing that stops this from been a bolt up fit is the diameter of the top steering head bearings. The older GSXR’s have a 30mm bottom bearing and a 25mm top bearing. The newer K series have 30mm bearings both top and bottom.



The outside diameter of the top 25mm bearing is 47mm

The outside diameter of the bottom 30mm bearing (this is also the top bearing on K series) is 55mm



You can either take your frame to a motorcycle engineering shop and get your head stem machined out from 47mm to 55mm. this will allow you to use the 30mm id bearing in the top head stem and allow you to use the K series stem, locking nuts etc.



This photo shows the difference between the two steering stems (yes one stem is bent) note the larger diameter



http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/1004729556191004.jpg

[Deano]

What I chose to do was press out the K series stem and insert the earlier model stem into the K series lower triple. This will allow you to use the standard 30mm bottom bearing and standard 25mm top bearing. The problem you then are faced with is that the K series top triple has a 25mm hole in it for the steering stem to go through. The earlier stem is only 22mm at this point, therefore a bush will have to be made with a 22mm id an a 25mm od to take up the difference in hole diameters.



This photo shows the early GSXR stem pressed into the K series clamp



http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/1004729556192913.jpg

[Deano]

The following photo shows the difference in hole diameters. This is the space that will be taken up by the bush that you will have to get turned up. We stock these bushes or you can purchase from a bearing shop the part no is MDU2220.



To finish off you will then need to use the earlier seal and locking nut.




http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/1004729556143535.jpg

[Deano]

also keep in mind that the steering stops will be in different spots so you will have to work your way around that.

[dinorider]

thanks mate,thats most helpful.can you help with info on the same job on a L model 1100?

[pt]

how about SRAD gixxers? are they more simple or less simple or does nobody bother with it? (mines the 600 with non-USD forks[xx(])

[Deano]

quote:Originally posted by dinorider

thanks mate,thats most helpful.can you help with info on the same job on a L model 1100?


mate, it is the same.

the steering stems didn't change till srad.

the steering stem that is pictured in the K4 lower triple is from a 1100 oil cooled

[Deano]

quote:Originally posted by pt

how about SRAD gixxers? are they more simple or less simple or does nobody bother with it? (mines the 600 with non-USD forks[xx(])


srad is even easier. they don't have a 25mm top bearing, from memory there stem it the same as the K series (pitcured) so it should just bolt straight up with out stem swaps or using different bearings

[pt]

yay hooray for bolt on mods:D

[Seifer]

Hey deano, i'm pretty sure the stem will fit into my r1 clamps, was just wondering how i go about pressing out the stems, how is this done and which way do they come out?

[Seifer]

Riiight, you press it out using a press.. genius.

[EXBEN]

Seifer, You need to heat the bottom clamp first. I use a blow torch for this, just be carefull not to get too much heat into it. Then press it out on " you guessed it " a shop press pushing from the top down. Make sure you support the bottom clamp as close to the stem as possible to prevent any chance of bending it. You will probably start building up some pressure then there will be a pop before the stem starts moving.

[ozkat]

I had to remove a stem from a bottom triple only the other day, you may laugh but it does work, ive used this method a few times.
Take you bottom triple with stem and put it in the frezzer for a couple of hours. After a few hours (as quickly as possible) place the triple and stem on a block of wood so it looks like a T and pour boiling water over the triple clamp (try not to get too much boiling water on or in the stem)once the triple clamp is warmer than the stem place a socket or peice of pipe large enough for the stem to fit inside and give the socket/pipe 1 or 2 sharp hits. The triple clamp should just fall off. Ive used this method both with boiling water and a blow torch and both work well.

[EXBEN]

Oh yes the freezer is good. If you freeze the stem & heat the clamp when reassembling they will probably just drop together or at worst maybe a couple of taps with a hammer & a drift.

[Seifer]

Hahaha, im laughing ozkat, but its genious, i'll give it a crack when i get home. Cheers. Oh can i get a better explanation of how you have the tiple sit, do you mean its upside down like a T, so does the top of the stem rest on the ground and I hit the triple, or does it sit theway round and I hit out the stem?

[TurboKat]

I've done it Ozkat's way too & it works a treat :)
It's VERY important to support the tripleclamp around the base of the stem (I use a piece of pipe longer than the stem with a slightly larger O.D. & sleeve it over the top) when you're hammering the stem out or the clamp will bend if you have to hit it too hard. :(

[dazz]

we always put main bearings in the freezer and heat the cases on 2 stroke bottom end rebuilds;)

[Hillsy]

That's how you replace valve seats too - seats in the freezer, head in the oven (not your own head)

[Seifer]

I'm still unclear of where it is that im to hit and where the pipe goes, which way up etc, could someone please clarify. ie describe in more detail. Thanks

[ozkat]

quote:Originally posted by Seifer

I'm still unclear of where it is that im to hit and where the pipe goes, which way up etc, could someone please clarify. ie describe in more detail. Thanks
Like a T sit the stem on a peice of wood so you dont damage the thread. and use a large socket (bigger than the bottom of the stem) so its only touching the triple. a couple of sharp taps on the socket should work

[03gixxerpilot]

This sounds like fun so tomorrow i will take my 03 front end and my 89 triple tree to the work shop and set up the 03 usd to go into my early model chassis, i will take befor and after pics for all to see, and if i can get some help i will try and get some photos of the work in progress

[Gix11]

Great mate. If you get the photos I'll do a "how to" for the main site area. Let me know (and if anyone else wants to do a write up on removing stems (or anything else for that matter to build up the HOW TO section a bit) let me know also.

[03gixxerpilot]

Deano EXACTLY what stem did you use, i used the one out of my early model ( 86 gsxr 750 ) and you are right about the bearing sizes BUT the diameter of the stem below the bearing ( IE the part of the stem that gets pressed into the bottom triple clamp ) is 30.2mm on the new ( 03 ) stem and 30mm on the old ( 86 ) stem leaving me with a clearance of .2mm int the bottom clamp, this is not a problem as i have access to a welder and lathe ( or more to the point Stevo has ) and will weld and remachine the stem to suit, how ever this info should be pointed out to those of you who were or are going to use an early model stem ( apprently they are all the same untill the srad but i can't say for sure )

Unfortunatly I didn't get the camra that i was supposed to ( due to the flooding around here the bloke with it couldn't get over to my place ) so no photos, call me a sucker for punishment but i'm going to pull the front out of the '90 1100 and disasemble the triple tree to see if it is the same as the 86 stem or not, I'll try for photos when i do that proberly tomorrow.

[03gixxerpilot]

Bit of an update, the '90 stem as the same as the '86 so once again no use to me, so stevo will do the '86 stem mod for me this week end and i will see how we go next week

[Deano]

clive.

it took me 3 stems to get one to fit. they are dirrenerce tolerances. you may find the next stem you find will be the same.

it was lucky for me that the only straight usable stem was the one that was the correct tolerance. i measured the k4 stem then the early stem and they were exactly the same so i then pressed it in.

Stems are all the same till SRAD. they then went the 30mm top and bottom compared to the early 25mm top 30mm bottom.

good luck

[03gixxerpilot]

thanks Deano, but i only have the two stems avalible to me at the moment (they are both the same and both have 30.0mm tolerance on the bottom of the shaft) and i don't want to chance getting another without knowing it will be the right size, .2mm is a big diffrence in tolerance especially if you are talking about on a 30mm shaft, it not the diffrence in the wear of a cutting tip, anyway it dosen't matter as i am going to build up the bottom end of the stem with weld and machine it to the same as the 03 dimentions, whis way i am garenteed the right sizes and fit to the 03 bottom triple clamp.

[03gixxerpilot]

:Dfinished the stem today and pressed the stem into the clamp, and installed the bearing as well, machined he bush to gointo the top clamp and fitted it, just need new bearing for the top clamp to complete it, but i also need to find a new home for the clocks and dont know if i want them on the triple clamp or mount thme on the faring bracket.

[03gixxerpilot]

03 front end is now happly at home in the gsxr1100 ( 90 ) all went smoothly, i have decided to put the clocks back on the top tripple so i will do that at work tomorrow, as well as making the adaptors to fit the 90 model front wheel as well, also i am going to use the 03 stearing dampiner as well, so i have to mod the faring bracket to take the fixed mount, but that will have to wait till thursday.

Must be getting close to piccie time mate.

[03gixxerpilot]

yer only got to get the camra to be able to take pics with ;/

but looking good so far

[DaveK5]

You workin out of stevo's shop can drop by with a camera if needed....BTW the 03 gixxer must be lookin a bit "lean" by now.

To date it's Clives 90/03 and "anything in steves shed" Bitsa gixxer....good shit I reckon.
Goin by stevos determined look when describing the engine work..Oohh baby sounds good.
I'll go past tomorrow if ya there so be it.

[03gixxerpilot]

thanks dave but the bike is at my house i only doing the mods that i can't do at home ( ie welding and machning )at the shop, i will be over there tomorrow but will be finishing about 4 oclock as i am taking a drag bike ( boots ) out to the strip in the arvo to test the new carbies that we put in this arvo, it feels better, and sounded crisper, hopefully the jetting and needle combo are close to what we are after.

[03gixxerpilot]

Ok got the clocks back in place with no problems, had to use the 90 model ignition barrel as the 03 fouled on the chassis, and the conector was differnt as well, the trick to doing this is drill out the mounting holes to take the 03 screws.

I have finished the axel adaptor/spacers and remounted to front wheel ( 90 ) back in place including the original speedo drive, all the is left now in to service the callipers and put a 5mm spacer underneth them to fit over the larger breaks of the L model and then have a braded hose made up to suit. all going well i will have this done on monday, then the next thing to get done on the bike is fit a new tail pipe and the tri oval can onto it.

Dave if you want to come around and take some pics of it for me that would be great, just give me a ring on 0405276179 to orgnise a time.

[Hagarr]

Same problem lies with using R1 Triple Clamps onto Gixxer fork legs you will need to modify or metal spray the gixxer bottom bearing mount on the steering stem to suit Yamaha bottom Triple Clamp about .2mm. I've had to destroy a triple clamp or two to push out the pin some times.Probably should have heated up the item.

[03gixxerpilot]

heating the clamp is definatly the way to go, i only used a small press but with heating the clamp it was a breez

[03gixxerpilot]

DAM DAM DAM
the trials and tribulations for this front end sarga continue
Got the calipers done this morning, used two washers to space the radial calipers out ( tempory fix untill im 100% happy that the conversions is going to work ) GOOD.
BAD = the disks on the l model wheel are 4mm two wide ( 2mm a side ) so now i have to make a decision on which way to go with the disks
1 Do i machine the rim to bring back the offset to where it should be

2 Do i use the 03 disks and machine spacers to bring them out to the correct offset

3 Do i get a new set of carriers made to eliminate the need to do either of the above options

[03gixxerpilot]

which way would you go and how much would it cost to have a set on carriers make to suit, i would need the actual disk as i already have them in both sizes

or dose anyone have any other suggestions.
Cheers Clive

[Deano]

you will be right mate.

a standard wheel on with standard W discs. (same as L) fits fine. the pads just sit is different spots. just take care when the discs are getting low incase the pistons get close to popping out. i have the propper wheel and disc tho but its is out geting painted so put on the standard wheel for now.

i am pretty sure mundy is running the same set up.

if you need can get you pics of where the disc is in relation to the centre of the caliper

good luck

[03gixxerpilot]

thanks mate did it on another bike ( stunt bike 03 gixxer with busa wheel ) and had no probs but i am a bit more picky with this one and would like to get it right, it has yet to go through a roadworthy so would like it to be spot on,

I have just thought of option no 4 but not to sure about it yet
Option on 4 Put the 03 gixxer front wheel back in and try to fit the 03 gixxer rear wheel to match the front.

[stevo]

how about a GS500 wheel in the front....


then it'll wheelie REAL easy

:D :D :D :D :D




we can get new disc centres but it's an expensive way to go for what you're tryin to acheive..

[TurboKat]

Piece of piss Clive, just machine the 2mm off the disc mounting face on the wheel & you'll get the discs sitting where they're s'posed to be.
2 mil is fine to take off the wheel without compromising it's strength. I've done heaps of 'Motard conversions that way & they've stood up to race punishment no problems.
You might need to adjust your mounting bolts to suit - ie; washers under the bolt heads, turn off excess shoulder material or use different bolts (a trip to the wreckers will sort a suitable bolt out.) No mods to speedo drive or axle spacers are needed because none of it changes.
It's also a fair bit quicker than machining up disc spacers.
All you need is access to a lathe with enough swing to fit a 17" wheel on it & you're in bizzness. The actual turning process takes less than 10 mins.

[03gixxerpilot]

thanks turbo, they are radial breaks and cannot be moved sideways hence the need to move the disks i think that what you have sugested is the best way to go, i now need to find a shop that has a lathe big enough to do it for me.

I'll keep you posted on the progress

[03gixxerpilot]

Ok i've made my mind up, the wheel is coming out tomorrow and i will set about finding a machine shop that can do the machining for me, i will take 2mm a side of the break mounts thus brining them back into alingment, the other two options seem to be a bit expensive, and time consuming.

Cheers Clive

[speeddemon]

There is also another option that can work for changing stems if the bottom stem OSD is very different to the original bike:

Cut the original stem off flush with the triples, bore it out to exactly the same size as the stem you want so they physically cannot fit - heat bottom and cool stem, press into eachother and they are thermally bound as they cool.

[Watto]

hey deano

reading your post and looking to do this mod soon and saw you had a bush that you could supply to fill the gap in the 03/04 top triple when usig the older stem

What's the damage n availability on the bush pls mate

Cheers
Watto

[Deano]

all you need make is a bush with 22mm id and 25mm od. i can machine you up a bush if need be

[Watto]

Deano

mate if you could machine one up that would be awesome:)

pm us ya details n cost n will go from there

Cheers
Watto

[Watto]

G'day guys

For anyone else contemplating the swap out to a late model (K series) front end, found a fella that makes the tapered bearings so you can use the k series steering stem without machining the slingy top cup or changing out stems - he makes a top bearing with OD47 x ID30 x W15 so it becomes a bolt in solution

Link is http://www.twinworksfactory.com/svmods.htm (thanks to gs resources for this one)

Cheers
Watto

[Stocky]

WE NEED PICTURES !

[Watto]

gday stocky

pics on his website look just like a normal tapered roller bearing except it's in the size that no one seems to be able to supply

some of the boys might find this a bit pricy but it's $45 for the bearing/cup and $20 postage from the US

But depending on how you look at it, could be cheaper/easier than finding a suitable early gixxer stem of the right dims (refering to tolerances) for the k4 lower triple and buying bushes for the top clamp

I'm taking the easy road and getting one - will post some pics once I have it and slotted the k4 front end in the slingy frame

Cheers Watto

[Deano]

quote:Originally posted by Watto

Deano

mate if you could machine one up that would be awesome:)

pm us ya details n cost n will go from there

Cheers
Watto


sorry mate only just saw the question $20 will cover it

[Watto]

gday deano

cheers mate but have got it sorted