Yella's ZX7 project

[rod185651]

Good luck for saturday mate. Hope the test ride goes well

[Yella]

Well I got it all back together and figured it should start sweet and burn off the extra oil laying around and I can take it for a run WRONG :([V]:(
I notice when I rode into the shed last time that it stalled out and I did hit the starter but it didn't fire back up but I was more worried about the oil then.
Anyway after check everything including spark with a test plug, then thinking maybe I have fucked a ring or 2 ( but I would have to be the unluckiest person on earth)then checking everything again I pulled the plugs and check them and they are arcing onto the insulator (WTF) or at best across to the thread not the ground electrode. New NGK spark plugs about 20k's old but failed :(:(:(
Try to find some tomorrow what Plug do you guy's recommend ??

[mr.zxr]

NGK CR9E. whenever you over oil the system it'll foul the plugs. when i first set mine up it happened to me more times than i can remember. you can use CR9EK's (double electrode) but they're more expensive and chances are you'll foul a few sets before you get it right.

[Yella]

Thanks
Had the CR9E in will grab some more tomorrow and ebay myself a box or 2 next week ;)
Pav was saying that he read you spaced / aligned your plugs so that the spark was protected from the incoming air/fuel. Was that any help ?

[mr.zxr]

it did seem to help the problem but it didn't stop it all together. it is a fair bit of fuckin around though. the main problem was probably the oil fouling the plugs. it used to get blown through my intercooler and would take forever to clear. i don't know if you saw the pics of my bike, but it has an oil cooler under the turbo. it serves 2 purposes, cool the oil and act like a sump so the oil can easily drain from the turbo.

[Yella]

Did check that out earlier. I was thinking of fitting something like this to cool the oil
http://www.prchotrod.com/media-center-images/cooling_accessories/Trans_oil_cooler.jpg

Just gotta track down the correct size

[Booster]

Over rich and oil contamination will quickly make a carbon track and cause misfire
just as easily as too lean will burn aluminium , and if you ride it on boost to the point of a lean miss this can happen very quickly .
be prepared to replace plugs often while your sorting it out , std type plugs or the twin ground strap type , but don't waste your time with iridium , they just cost more and don't last any longer in this circumstance .

[Yella]

New plugs and it runs. I have noticed that the fuel pressure spikes upto 10psi when the boost comes on (hard to watch and ride at the same time)gunna put a restrictor in the ref line to try and take out any pulses see if that helps. anyone got any idea's?

[Yella]

Forgot oil seems OK for now did a couple of runs and no smoke or oiling up :)

[mr.zxr]

Is it a rising rate fuel pressure reg? If it is, the pressure is meant to rise with boost.

[Yella]

1:1 but it seems over the top at 1 psi boost fuel spiked upto 10psi fuel then dropped to 5 then to 8 etc just seems all over the place like it was seeing pulses dunno. Will try again shortly

[Deano]

What reg have you used? Have you got some sort of way of telling what your afr is while doing these tests?

[Yella]

http://www.jegs.com/images/photos/02713301.jpg

Aeromotive 13301 - Universal Bypass Regulator

No AFR mter as yet hope to get it soon.
Did a comp test and was getting some strange readings 3 below what it should be and one a 1/4 down on those again so dropped out the motor and striped it down. Was going to happen anyway at some stage so may aswell be now. No major failure couple of good marks in the bore and by the looks of it some monkey has had it apart previously broken 1 of the rocker bolts and other tell tale signs.
Going to google options now for rebuild kits and the like. Should I look at turbo pistons or standard with a base plate?

[Deano]

Is that a Efi reg or low pressure. Might have issues controlling such a low pressure

[mr.zxr]

fuck you work fast. plugs in, test ride,compression test, engine out, strip down and all in one day. you'll probably wind out the day with a shit, shower and shave and then even hit the mrs up for a quicky.:D

[Booster]

Deano those regs come with 2 springs , efi and carb ,
Where are you taking the pressure signal for the reg from ?

Depends on the quality of your pistons, on my gsxr 750 i get std pistons HPC coated and use a 2mm spacer and there lasting well to 30 psi. on a streetbikerunning to 10 psi i would probably just stick to a 1mm spacer .

[mr.zxr]

i had stock pistons with 2mm spacer on the zxr. it ran 18psi boost. the gearbox failed before the pistons. on my zx9B motor i have the HPC ceramic coating on the crown and teflon on the skirts. it seems to be runnig fine.

[Yella]

I am thinking standard with 1.5mm spacer. What was it like with a 2mm spacer off boost.
As Booster said dual pressure I have the low pressure spring in.
I have the ref line 'T' into the small pipe across the throat of the plenumm intake.

[Booster]

Ok what about wastegate pressure reference ? and what sort of wastegate (probably pictured and referred to somewhere )
You can add to a 1mm spacer with std basegaskets, the 2mm on mine realy kills the bottom end , and with the big turbo and hi gearing i mean KILLS...
this vid is with 1mm spacer when i was running methanol , just to get an idea http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRNWt_yGTAI

[Yella]

Who make up your spacers? What material is best?
Wastegate comes from the snail and is standard factory built in to the turbo

[mr.zxr]

from memory the stock base gaskets are .5mm and have some kind of silicone or rubber coating. just use a few of them and because they have the coating there no need for sealant. My 2mm spacer was made from aluminium. i clamped it between 2 pieces of mdf, drilled the holes and then just cut it with a jigsaw. bit af i file to tidy up and was done.

[Yella]

who does everyone get piston, gasket etc sets from anyone OS that any good and a good price

[Booster]

I get my aluminium base spacers laser cut now but did a lot by hand out of copper originally, jigsaw and drill too .laser is much easier ;) if your base spacers are .5mm just get a few and stack them , one old and 2 new each side will do it the suzuki ones are .25mm ,
Simple buying OS , aftermarket.. Orient Express, and oem... partshark , both have online stores, express post and are reasonable in there pricing , partshark will take longer as they order in after you order, Orient usually have good stock and will let you know if there out of stock

[mr.zxr]

if you do buy pistons, make sure they DON,T have XA type oil rings. they are fucked in every way. I spent $3000 on a zx9 motor only to have it go bang because of these pieces of shit. i was warned but stupidly chose to try em anyway. they say learn from your mistakes... so you can learn from mine.

[Yella]

Got some time today stockbase gaskets are .20mm so I either stack 6 together or I find something to make a spacer out of :D

Bores cleaned up OK, head seems to check out so I will order some bits get it back together and see if I can blow it up :D

http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1836/8602720/15960288/397535919.jpg

http://pic70.picturetrail.com/VOL1836/8602720/15960288/397535914.jpg

[Yella]

I like to try and support local guy's if it is not going to kill me with high cost/bad service ETC so I did a bit of looking at cost over the interweb and a couple of local calls last week.
Most of the local dealers are well above the O/S cost but Flywheels at Alexandria seem to be on the money again(they alway seem to be well below every other Kawasaki dealer ?? makes me wonder about the rest) and I will not save much if any after I factor in freight so I will double check tomorrow when I have some time and if correct will place my order :D. Bit of a trip to get in to Alexandria from Western SkidaKnee but ya get that and last time I was in the area I seen a white unit with an ASF sticker on the back window so I feel at home [8D][8D].I will talk to them about dyno time aswell ya never know

[rod185651]

I get a few things of flywheels also, they use Fastway couriers and most items get delivered for about ten bucks extra. A much better option then fighting the Sydney traffic.

[Yella]

Looking at getting a spacer plate cut out of stainless what is the going rate. The people I have spoken to are talking $100 give or take to supply materials and cut

[latheboy]

If you know someone who uses a CAD program get them to draw it up, then send the DXF to the cutters. It'll be cheaper that way because the cutter wont have to draw it from scatch.

And NO sharp corners anywhere only radi.

[Yella]

They do a CAD and convert to DXF as part of the price. Sadly don't know anyone that can do it other than them

[latheboy]

Really truth be told i think thats a good price for the work thats to be done.

As a paying job i'd change that before laser cutting, thats why i said get a mate cause mates are free :D


Converting to DXF is a mater of clicking the mouse a couple of times so don't be fooled that it's hard work, the time is in drawing the part.

[Booster]

Why stainless ?? aluminium or copper are so much easier to work

[EXBEN]

+1 for Alooominium.....;)

[EXBEN]

oh & as it's a base spacer you could cut it by hand pretty easily.

[Yella]

Was thinking about that but I want to get a couple of other bits done ( want to make a new plenum and carb plate)so may get it all done together.
Ben I will give you a call Monday and see what you can do [8D]

Does anyone know what size jets come in the dyno jet stage 1 kit or am I better off having just getting a some straight from kawasaki? Looking at about 150 - 160 main

[Deano]

You shouldn't have to go that big if you have good dynamic boost. Shouldn't have to go much bigger than STD jets

[Yella]

Standard is 200(1 & 4) 210 (2 & 3) going by the manual. Will pull them down again tomorrow and check I think mine has 180 & 190 (can not remember exactly)
The fella I was speaking with is running 150 in all 4 on his turbo zx7 and he is happy and seems to be running clean.
Struggling with this a bit but will work through it

[Deano]

Kawaka jets must have different number system to Suzuki. A 750 suzuki would be about 117.5 mains

As you were

[Yella]

bugger if I know found this,
(Width = true hole diameter)
Width------Keihin # -- DynoJets # -- Mikuni #
0.0350---- 92.5--------- 92---------- 86.3
0.0360---- 95----------- 94---------- 88.1
0.0370---- 97.5--------- 96---------- 90.0
0.0380---- 100---------- 98---------- 91.9
0.0390---- 102.5------- 100---------- 93.8
0.0400---- 105--------- 102---------- 95.6
0.0410---- 107.5------- 104---------- 97.5
0.0420---- 110--------- 106---------- 99.4
0.0430---- 112.5------- 108--------- 101.3
0.0440---- 115--------- 110--------- 103.1
0.0450---- 117.5------- 112--------- 105.0
0.0460---- 120--------- 114--------- 106.9
0.0470---- 122.5------- 116--------- 108.8
0.0480---- 125--------- 118--------- 110.6
0.0490---- 127.5------- 120--------- 112.5
0.0500---- 130--------- 122--------- 114.4
0.0510---- 132.5------- 124--------- 116.3
0.0520---- 135--------- 126--------- 118.1
0.0530---- 137.5------- 128--------- 120.0
0.0540---- 140--------- 130--------- 121.9
0.0550---- 142.5------- 132--------- 123.8
0.0560---- 145--------- 134--------- 125.6
0.0570---- 147.5------- 136--------- 127.5
0.0580---- 150--------- 138--------- 129.4
0.0590---- 152.5------- 140--------- 131.3
0.0600---- 155--------- 142--------- 133.1
0.0610---- 157.5------- 144--------- 135.0
0.0620---- 160--------- 146--------- 136.9
0.0630---- 162.5------- 148--------- 138.8
0.0640---- 165--------- 150--------- 140.6
0.0650---- 167.5------- 152--------- 142.5
0.0660---- 170--------- 154--------- 144.4
0.0670---- 172.5------- 156--------- 146.3
0.0680---- 175--------- 158--------- 148.1
0.0690---- 177.5------- 160--------- 150.0
0.0700---- 180--------- 162--------- 151.9
0.0710---- 182.5------- 164--------- 153.8
0.0720---- 185--------- 166--------- 155.6
0.0730---- 187.5------- 168--------- 157.5
0.0740---- 190--------- 170--------- 159.4
0.0750---- 192.5------- 172--------- 161.3
0.0760---- 195--------- 174--------- 163.1
0.0770---- 197.5------- 176--------- 165.0
0.0780---- 200--------- 178--------- 166.9
0.0790---- 202.5------- 180--------- 168.8
0.0800---- 205--------- 182--------- 170.6
0.0810---- 207.5------- 184--------- 172.5
0.0820---- 210--------- 186--------- 174.4
0.0830---- 212.5------- 188--------- 176.3
0.0840---- 215--------- 190--------- 178.1
0.0850---- 217.5------- 192--------- 180.0
0.0860---- 220--------- 194--------- 181.9
0.0870---- 222.5------- 196--------- 183.7
0.0880---- 225--------- 198--------- 185.6
0.0890---- 227.5------- 200--------- 187.5



Keep this in mind---> From a Dynojet tech rep:

We are often asked for a "cross reference" sheet that compares our main jets to Mikuni or Keihin. The fact is you cannot directly interchange the jets for a given size. Many things affect fuel flow through a jet of the same orifice size. The entry and exit tapers of our main jets differ from those of other companies. Due to this, the fuel flow changes as a function of velocity through the carburetor venture. This means that two jets of equal orifice size will have a different fuel flow curve relative to intake air speed. At a certain speed the two may flow equally, but a change in velocity changes the flow characteristics. The Dynojet main jet hole size is measured in millimeters. For example, a DJ142 has a 1.42mm hole.

Michael Cory
Research & Development
Phone: 800-992-4993 EXT. xxx
Michael@Dynojet

[Yella]

The satge 1 dyno jet kit includes,

Fuel - 1998 Kawasaki NINJA ZX-7R(ZX750P3)US

Note: Includes 2 Main Jet DJ132, 2 Main Jet DJ134, 2 Main Jet DJ136, 2 Main Jet DJ138, 4 Fuel Needle DNO119, 4 Main Air Plugs DCO200, 4 Slide Springs DSP006, 4 E-Clips DE0001, 8 Adjusting Washers DW0001, 1 Plug Drill DD #5/32, 1 Screw DS0001, 1 Slide Drill DD #

And everythng I am reading is telling me the ZX7 has large main jets to help with the factory emissions system once remove you go smaller and with the turbo Im thinking smaller is the go

[latheboy]

Put in some new plugs before you start it again and keep an eye on them for det sign and lean.

Get an AFR metre of some sort too.

Your better off being rich than lean....

[Booster]

My first turbo bike i tuned with a jaycar narrow band o2 sensor and led display, on boost it had to read rich but not be bogging down and it was fine ...if it read normal or lean it was too lean , and black smoke or bogging down was too rich ,

[Deano]

I have heard alot that dj or factory pro needles needles are no good for turbo.

What Ivan said. You really need to know what the afr is doing before you ride it cause it will go bad before you know it if it hasn't already

[Yella]

I have heard the same about the needles. Will probably just get Kawasaki jets in the size I need. I am still going to run 2 different sizes as per factory

I was thinking of running the CR9EK plugs instead of the standard CR9E ( The K is the dual electrode) anyone tried this any advantage?

Will be getting hold of an AFR gauge soon hope to have it before I bolt it all back in

[Booster]

You can fine tune needles with a bit of fine wet/dry, crc and a drill

[Yella]

Ok so I ened up ordering bits from Part Shark as it worked out a heap cheaper after speaking witha couple of local shops. All bits arrived super quick so happy as. Went out ans spoke to the water jet fella and he is cutting a base spacer for me for $40 figured I can't go wrong :)also spoken to him about cutting a new air box base plate out of alloy. It will make life easier and seal better so he is making for me aswell. Once the motor gets a paint and put back in I will makea in plenum to bolt to it with intercooler and start again with the tune ad set up.

[mr.zxr]

$40 for the base gasket is a bargain mate. i'll look forward to seeing this bike up and running. if you're anything like me, you won't sleep properly until it is.

[mr.zxr]

it's gone quiet!! where are you up to?

[Yella]

Waiting on parts and time hope to get back to it this week

[Yella]

Thinking of painting the engine black while it is out. What do you guy's think?
What is te best paint to use?

[pav69]

2 pack solid i can do it for you depends how keen you are i have paint otherwise vht engine paint can also paint bits body colour if you want to just yell out if you need em done.

[Yella]

I purchased 2 cheap (read really cheap) digital guages from egay 1 boost and 1 oil pressure that i will use for fuel pressure. They arrived a while back the boost gauge worked sweet but the oil gauge did not read correct the display was faulty. Anyway sent them a message an after a bit of back and forth they sent me a new gauge tested today all seems good.So I got the old gauge and wired it up again still the same so i gave it a bit of the knock on the bench and fuck me it works. So I gave it a couple of good belts and it is still working as good as the new one :D now I have 2 sweet.

[Yella]

Still waiting for bits.............................................. ............... this is killing me

[Yella]

We have some action. Picked upthe base spacer today

http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff419/YELLAZX7/13082011593.jpg

We took the rubber boot off to have a look at it..... nice
http://i1234.photobucket.com/albums/ff419/YELLAZX7/13082011594.jpg

Some shots of it being cut but in my rush to get it back together forgot to take a pick of the finish item.
So new rings in and head torqued down now time to hit the piss and party for tonight and back into it tomorrow guessing with a hang over but motor should be bolted back in and having a test fire up by the arvo........ SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET

[BANDITROD]

That's fucking cool

[K6Thou]

I've been watching this for a while..... nice work mate. [8D]

[Yella]

So the motor is back in heavy fucker on me own but got it done. no pic's of that but

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL699/13392715/23869680/398088920.jpg

fitted the new front guard from the earlier 7 ( thanks PAV) while I waited now just need to get it back to Pav for paint along with the rest of the bits as I think a slight color change is gunna happen, but dont worry it's still going to be yellow ( haters gunna hate ) just a bit different to now:D:D

[mr.zxr]

cool. i'd like one of those water cutters in the garage.

[pav69]

guard looks like it was meant to be there mate now get it running and drop off the bodywork and ill sort it out.

[Yella]

Heaps going on just not alot on the bike hope to get back into it tomorrow. Hugger arrived and some other bits so will get some pic's tomorrow and post up. Need to pull the finger out

[Yella]

So new hugger is in place needs some tweaking but all is good

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL699/13392715/23869680/398520252.jpg

New base plate for plenum almost ready

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL699/13392715/23869680/398520273.jpg

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL699/13392715/23869680/398520264.jpg

Need to hurry the fuck up but again with no time with work and study and kids ETC but enough of me crying about it back to work

[Yella]

Plenum take 2 is coming alone..............
http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL699/13392715/23869680/398709380.jpg

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL699/13392715/23869680/398709327.jpg

The combo of trial and error (mostly error) and being a tight arse will work out one day

[BANDITROD]

Looking good mate

[Yella]

Ok so it is up and running again heaps better than last time out but has a splutter at low revs/as boost comes on. As the RPM climbs it clears and revs clean still not great but better. I have dropped the float level and adjusted the mixer screw out to 4 turns waiting for the rain to clear so I can try another run.. Booked in for a dyno run next weekend aswell so hopefully should get it sorted.
Anyone got any tips, hits, anything really they wanna put throw in the ring
The only pic I took today was of the exhaust when I checked to see if I have any oil bypass so here it is.

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL699/13392715/23869680/398831722.jpg

Will grab some more tomorrow

[Yella]

Ok Looking for help from people that have done this before.
Just as boost starts to rise at part throttle the bike is a pig miss fires splutter and wont rev. If I pin it open it will pull past and rev to limiter not perfectly but OKish. I am going to look at the needle height now any idea's would be appreciated

[Deano]

Do you have an afr meter if so what is it doing? If not get one

[EXBEN]

This is one of the problems I found with carbs & turbos, I came to the conclusion I was in need of custom needles,I tried all sorts of needles from all kinds of bikes & jet kits, nothing worked well, thats when I went to EFI. Tried using heavier CV springs, air bleeds all sorts of stuff & nothing gave the result I wanted. When doing your tests have you got an AFR meter hooked up my guess is it's going from about right to real lean when it comes on boost then rich, it's this transition that's the hardest to tune. Ready for efi yet??

[Yella]

Yep I need to get one (A/F Meter) will see if I can order one tomorrow.

Cleaned the carbs raised the needles put it all back together and it would not start
Fuelled up another set of plugs.

New plugs and fire straight up but now wont idle. Time to go inside and see the kids look some more tomorrow.


http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL699/13392715/23869680/398847140.jpg

and the sight glass is leaking now just a little

[Deano]

Don't get a cheap one. Be prepared to spend $500 or more. I have one from www.wbo2.com.au works great.
Also you need wide band not narrow band

[latheboy]

Are you using a rising rate fuel reg?
How does it get its boost. I have a pitot pipe just fot the reg.

Have you drill a hole from the carby bore to under neath the slide diaframe?
How much fuel pressure have you got when off boost and do you have a good free flowing return to the tank?

Everything I have read says if the bike coughs or stumbles on transition, the pitot isn't working

[Yella]

quote:Originally posted by latheboy

Are you using a rising rate fuel reg?
How does it get its boost. I have a pitot pipe just fot the reg.

Have you drill a hole from the carby bore to under neath the slide diaframe?
How much fuel pressure have you got when off boost and do you have a good free flowing return to the tank?

Everything I have read says if the bike coughs or stumbles on transition, the pitot isn't working



Are you using a rising rate fuel reg?
Yes 1:1

How does it get its boost. I have a pitot pipe just fot the reg.
I have it taking it from the ref pipe for the carbs

Have you drill a hole from the carby bore to under neath the slide diaframe?
Not sure what you mean? It has a factory hole to the bottom of the diaphram from the plenum

How much fuel pressure have you got when off boost and do you have a good free flowing return to the tank?

2.5psi and yes

[latheboy]

That sounds all good bar the ref for the reg.

I don't have a picture of my pitot but this is a sectioned solidworks model.
http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee405/latheboy179/pitotassy2section.jpg
The two on top go to the carb over flows and the one on the bottom goes to the reg only.

I tried two other styles of pitot before this and they didn't work, now it rev's cleanly onto boost and doesn't cough or stumble at all.

[latheboy]

Not sure what you mean? It has a factory hole to the bottom of the diaphram from the plenum

This is good cause i had to drill a hole in my carbs.

[Deano]

Sounds like the fuel is getting pushed back Into the bowls.

You need to pressurize the float bowls to stop this happening

[latheboy]

quote:Originally posted by yella

[quote]Originally posted by latheboy

Are you using a rising rate fuel reg?
Yes 1:1

How does it get its boost. I have a pitot pipe just fot the reg.
I have it taking it from the ref pipe for the carbs



The ref you speak off, is it before or after the butterfly in the carbs?
If it behind it won't work.

[Yella]

http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL699/13392715/23869680/398847140.jpg

I have taken the ref point from small pipe across the intake stream before the plenum (inbetween the 2 black hoses) it is the 2 yellow hoses on it

[latheboy]

Have you got boost hooked up to your over flows on the carby's from your pitot?

[Yella]

looking at getting one of these

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/images/MTXL_All_Web.jpg

Innovate Motorsports Digital MTX Series Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge utilizes the only 100% digital Wideband air/fuel ratio technology on the market! The award-winning patented DirectDigital™ technology we use is faster and more accurate than common “UEGO” gauges and is now more affordable! In addition, the gauge features a water resistant casing, interchangeable faceplates and bezels, and 2 fully programmable linear analog outputs for use with aftermarket engine managements systems and dataloggers!

KEY FEATURES
• The only 100% digital wideband air/fuel ratio technology!
• Water Resistant 52mm (2 1/16”) round dash-mountable casing is perfect for automotive, powersports, marine, and demanding racing applications
• Built-in Direct Digital™ Wideband Controller reduces wiring and simplifies installation (No LC-1 required)
• Wideband O2 Sensor is compatible with all fuel types (Leaded, Unleaded, Diesel, Methanol, E85, etc)
• Ability to calibrate O2 sensor for increased accuracy
• (2) 0-5v fully programmable linear analog outputs for use with engine management systems “closed-loop” and external dataloggers
• Interchangeable faceplates and bezels: Black and silver bezel, black and white faceplates included
• Large digital readout and programmable “Digital Needle” provides the functionality of a needle style gauge with the pinpoint accuracy of a digital display
• Datalog using LogWorks on your PC
• Serial IN and OUT ports allows for easy

MTX-L: (POWERSPORTS) Complete All-In-One Air/Fuel Ratio Gauge Kit. Includes: Gauge, Silver Bezel, Black Bezel, White Faceplate, Black Faceplate, Bosch O2 Sensor, 3ft. Sensor Cable (Overall length 4.5ft.), Exhaust Bung, Program Cable (Only needed for Datalogging and to change the Fuel Type Setting), Software CD, and Quick Start Guide. P/N: 3845,

[Yella]

I have hooked the pressure ref from the intake up to the factory float bowl pressure hose the one normally joined by the plastic tee going to the pollution gear( Point B See below ) use to equalise the pressure from the ram air in stock bikes
http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d67/oliwb/Kitt/ZX7r-Pipes.jpg

[rock hard]

Hey yella,rockets turbo gsxr1100 was a bastard to get to run correctly, one thing that made a big improvement to low speed running was when we hooked the pressure sence hose to the vacum point in the inlet manifold that you normaly syncronise the carbs,as the advice i got was at idle it would pull the fuel pressure down as opposed to where the pressure sence tube was on the bottom of the plennum chamber..i dont know if it will help but worth a try..but at the end of the day Exben's advice rings true that blowthrough turbo/carbs can be a fuckin headache and rocket is now talking injection ..good luck dude!!

[Yella]

Injection is on the cards but not just yet.

I was thinking the same with the pressure ref lines I currently have that hooked up for the gauge and the BOV but I cant see how it would work at part throttle and everything I read tells me to have it in the intake stream.

[Booster]

Had a carb turbo here today , (god i like injection) but we did manage to get it better in transition, now just need to customise the needles, Yammie 426 dirt squirter,he had a 3g gauge with lc1 wideband controller, but it lacked the boost referencing and logging, i think a dl32 or wbo2 3a/3e http://wbo2.com/3a1/default.htm or a AEM aq1 would have been better
as you realy need logging to tune on the road, even gauges and a camera would be better than trying to watch and interpret while riding
I think in the long run it will end up with a simple injection fuel only system like the microtech lt4

Yella how are your needles and seats coping with the pressures, we found the yammy was marginal with very little base pressure, on boost the carb referencing was spraying a good rate of fuel and air out of the carb overflow, not much in volume when captured but sure looked more

[Redmohawk]

Would a valve fitted between the vacume points (carb balance fittings) on the carbs, linked to the pitot tube float chambers work ?

The valve would have to be switched by a vacumbe/boost switch this would alow you to drop pressure in the fuel bowl at low boost/vac conditions then switch to the boost referance once a preset level it attained. Simple to set up with off the shelf bits but prob tricky to get right.

Two way valves off 80's to 90's toyotas can be had for free from the weckers one pipe is switched between two one is linked when valve is "off" apply 12 volts and it switches to the other. A ajustable pressure switch on the boost side wouls work easy enough to switch it.

[mr.zxr]

i had a microtech mt-4. it worked, but not very well. it worked well on boost but off boost was crap. Bikes have a lot of cam overlap and therefore a "jumpy" manifold pressure.the microtech would not calculate fast enough and in TPS mode did not have enough adjusments. when i changed to the Autronic SM4 it gave me an extra 40hp and perfect throttle. I did contemplate running carbies with a microtech to squirt fuel on boost only into the plenum. don't know how weel it would work though.

[Yella]

quote:Originally posted by Booster


Yella how are your needles and seats coping with the pressures, we found the yammy was marginal with very little base pressure, on boost the carb referencing was spraying a good rate of fuel and air out of the carb overflow, not much in volume when captured but sure looked more


They seem to be holding up OK I had the system pressure up at 12psi the other day and everything looked like it was holding together well. Will be rechecking over the weekend

[Booster]

Had absolutely no probs with the mt 4, using tps with boost on top , very simple, easy to use for a first timer, fit and ride in a day , not saying the autronic etc are not better , just a case of what do you need and how much do you want to spend..
If i wanted better than the microtech , the next step would be a fuel and ign ecu probably from link, like the atom, or Vipec
, next up would be the Autronic, Motec

[Yella]

Fitted up the A/F guage complete with getto fab mounts :D:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKvq7wCMrqw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqijkvMBuzM

Figured I would see if I can upload vids seems I can [8D][8D]

Tomorrow some real testing

[Booster]

Now you need to mount the camera where you can see the tach, boost gauge and a/f
A/f looks good so far what a/f are you aiming at idle, cruise.full throttle,on boost ?

[latheboy]

Does look good.
For idle i would try and get it fairly lean but not lean enough for it to sneeze or cough.

I got mine to 12.2:1 at full boost WOT. Safe is good, but I could lean it out a bit more if i wanted.
It's hard with carbies, in a perfect world i'd aim for 12.5:1.

[Yella]

Looking to get it around the 12.5ishmark but will have to see how it goes.

Its sitting at about 10 I think and fouling plugs as the boost comes on (running like a pig) Thinking of getting a slightly smaller slow jet and some smaller mains and see what I can do. Before I do that the shutter speed on my camera and the flicker rate digital displays is in sync when I go out in sun light so I can not see the displays when I head out. Gunna try and sheild the camera so it thinks its in the dark and slows the shutter speed to the same as when im in the shed and see if I can get a run that I can watch to see WTF is happening.
Has anyone filled and redrilled the holes smaller in the slides?

[Booster]

If i ran my bikes at 12 or leaner on boost i get melted pistons, but rich misfires easier , so the compromise is to gap the plugs tight, like .018th and run ~11.5 on boost and mid 12 to 13 off , at this a/f on the long runs my egt stabilises at 1680 deg F and can hold that for a long time , thats taking the egt from the turbo inlet,
seen busa's on the dyno give troubles at 12.0 at only 6 psi
And yet we had a malfunction of a map sensor at Bonneville this year and ran for 5 miles at 16-17:1 AF without doing damage ... just not enough fuel to make cyl temp , but boy was the egt hot, went beyond the 2000 deg f of out k type thermocouple

[Yella]

I think I will follow what you are saying and try to get it to run at 11.5 or so being this is my first don't want it to end in tears to quick and you guy's know better[8D].
Knocked up a quick phone/camera bracket that I can bolt tothe tank and cable tie the phone into seems to work OK not flash but works.
On the test today the only gauge I could see in the vids was the fuel and it was heading up to 10 PSI at almost no boost so tried a couple of different ways of doing the hoses but ended up back as it was just cleaned up a bit and with a MIG tip in the line to try and reduce the pulses seems better.
By the time I got back to the bike it was dark so no need for a screen or lense for the camera :D:D so out I went.
As you can see from the short vid as soon as I open the throttle A/F goes to 10. You can see it down to 10 as I open the throttle and back to 12ish as I roll off, back to 10 as I open again etc etc and the bike misses and farts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTWS-zcvJQo
Main jets are 150/160,float level is down 3mm, stock needles and mixture is out 1 1/4, stock slow jet.
Think I will order some smaller main jets and smaller slow jets tomorrow and keep trying.

[Deano]

Your af gauge probably don't read lower than 10 so it could be even richer than that

[Yella]

I was thinking the same then found this

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/images/MTXL_FuelTypeWeb.jpg

[Deano]

But will the sensor measure that low?

[Yella]

Dunno seems odd it but I will have to work on it.
Does anyone know any good places to get 99101-393 main jets heaps of people say thay have them but whenI check no stock will keep on looking

[Yella]

found em, all good, everyone stop looking :D:D local so should have them Tuesday

Also found a place in the US to get bulk 50,100 qty jets for $1.30 a jet so may get a bag just to have them

[Booster]

Doesn't have to read that low, each reading of different fuel types is a calibration of the 0-5v signal as long as you have that a reference chart you can use the gasoline figures , or lambda may even be easier as its applicable to all fuel types , just have to get your head around the numbers

[Redmohawk]

From what I've read on the innovate stuff (I have 2) there good kit when setup correctly the linear ouput will only display from 7.35 to 22 but the way the sensor is digitally operated widens its operating range far more than old analog wide band systems.

I'm going to use the same as above to tune the gimp on E85 this is happy far richer than any petrol setup, with raw fuel being spat out the exhaust at just off idle and opening the throttle unleashes lots of fun when you would think it far to rich to even run.

[Yella]

Down to 128/132 mains and farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrk me :D:D:D:D:D:D:D it moves now.
A/F gets down to high 9 on the transistion and sits at about 10.5 on boost as best I can see when going and the video is rubbish can't see shit need a better camera.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_9vgJmtv6c
As it comes on either the front lifts or the clutch lets go :D:D[8D][8D]:D:D[8D][8D]:D:D[8D][8D]:D:D gunna add some heavy duty spring order some more smaller jets again (only went down to 128 didn't think it would need that small but live and learn)
Yes I am happy buuuuuuuuuuuuuut I did note some oil in the intake not sure whats going on may need a reseal after all.
Next will be the radiator and intercooler but that will be a little later running out of time and hope to get it out for NFR maybe will have to see what I can swing.