seadoo supercharger

Hey gents, has anyone heard of a successful build using one of those seadoo centrifigal supercharges on a bike? They are available on ebay for next to nothing and they seem like they would be a good size. parts are available and everything. Can't find any examples and wondering if there is a reason. Thinking about it for my blade

cheers
Dan

[Fight_fan]

Redmohawk is currently woking on this idea mate! Im sure he'l be by shortly...

[Redmohawk]

Making mounting hardwear as It happens for GPX600 atm, Specs for the standard unit are very suitable for a bike motor if not a little on the large side, Designed to run 8 psi boost into a 1800cc motor reving at around 10,000 motor rpm. Stock Impeller will happly run up to 80,000 rpm design is basically the compressor side of a large turbo about TO4 size with a solid shaft with 2 heavy duty roller bearings. The reason there on ebay cheap is that an upgraded unit compleat for the seadoo's to run over 14 psi is easy to pick up as a compleat unit for around $600 - $700 so everyones hotting up seadoos lol and junking the old units.

Old units had a ceramic slipper clutch (two washers eather side of the drive gear) and they used to shatter and drop shit into the seadoo's sump new ones have stainless steel so no issues there. The downside of the unit is driveing it, the shaft is direct drive to the impeller, so you need to drive the turbine at aproxinatley 40,000 rpm to make good usable boost for a 1000cc bike I would say.
So If your bike revs to say 10,000 max thats a min 4 to one drive but your only going to get max boost at max rpm. Increasing drive ratio and using other means to limit boost is an option , like a wastegate arrangmet so boost comes on quicker and then levels off.

I'm running 10 to 1 drive on a 600cc 4 cyl BUT using a magnetic slipper clutch (variable torque) with electronic control to limit upper boost. Will post many photos soon, have 3 weeks off starting Thursday so hoping to have it mounted and starting testing at the minimum by the end of Hols.

Sounds very interesting! So are you getting 10:1 just by the size of the pully off the crank?
Also are you keeping your gpx with carbs or going the fuel injection route?
I'm trying to figure the logistics of doing this on my 94 blade 900 using carbs.

[Redmohawk]

Plan was to do a megga squirt injection setup with natural asperation first tune then add boost, But with 4 project bikes on the go at once (Betty the streetfighter is getting the charger , and I do on average 2,000 Km a week on her) a car project and moving house twice all in the last 3 months things have changed some what. More info here http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19298

Now the Aim is just to get something finished on betty that makes her go a bit better with highway cogs on her , the fuel economy is great but I miss the power mono's so the charger will give me a little of both.

So over the next 3 weeks she will have charger fitted mounted to right side of bike with drive going between block and headders of bike, a new billet cover has been made that fits to Generator side of motor (left) with a belt cover and extra support bearing for magnet/flywheel assembly. A Aluminium drive cog has to be made to slip over the outside of flywheel/magnet using a gilmer type drive belt (small car cam belt) any ratio from 11.2 to 1 down is reasonably easy to setup with the charger end just needing a larger pulley and maybe a slightly longer belt if i really drop the ratio heaps.

Used the mega squirt on a V8 bus injected lpg so will be carbs to start with and aiming for 4 psi boost prob start with a geat ratio around 4 to one just to see what happens. Charger mounted at front right side of bike, intercooler fed into bottom with two outlets running eather side of bike to carbs with Aluminium plentum feeding the carbs. A blow off valve mounted on plentum to open at 4 psi for just in case emergencys. Using the blow off valve long term isnt desirable as pressurising the air then just bleeding it off again is a waste of HP at the back tyre but good insurance seeing as my clutch setup is untested in this setup.

Sounds very cool. Very interested in some photos and your progress over the next few weeks. best of luck:)

[RevHead]

me3 very interested ,more speed faster better,lol

[Redmohawk]

My bike is quick enough already I just want to get there ALOT faster !

I hear ya:) My blade has a lot of head work, custom 4 into 1 and im sorting out the jetting but man a blower has got me hooked! I do want to keep it carbed though and i don't know much about that so im thinking it may be difficult.

Are you decompressing your engine? What about any other engine mods to handle the power?

[boris]

quote:Originally posted by Redmohawk

, But with 4 project bikes on the go at once (Betty the streetfighter is getting the charger , and I do on average 2,000 Km a week on her) a car project and moving house twice all in the last 3 months things have changed some what.

yeah but can't you do it in your spare time Red?:D

[Redmohawk]

Nope just shove it in, and run top shelf fuel all the time, maybe retard the timing a little. Injection is the way to go bro, but carbs can work so I thought i'd give it a try while I make another puter and still chasing a suitable set of throttle bodys for betty (wierd spacing of carbs have something sort of that i can use now modding some old carbs I got off pete)

I have a spare good running motor, so will just see what I can do with the stock one in it first. If I can double power output without opening it up and keeping it reliable (very possable from fun in the past) I'll leave it at that. If not I'll prob put the other motor in it and leave it as stock motor with maybe a little NOS for wheel up fun. Betty does far to many K's a week to open her up for something like that, she is my everyday ride. There are other options in the shed for flat out fun.

If your having issues getting your jetting right while its still NA with the blower your going to be in a world of hurt, get yourself a wide band oxy sensor and display (makes tuning much easyer and you will need it later big time if you decide to go down the blower root) Melted pistons and other messy things are easy to make with a blower !

[Dynomutt]

I've often thought about the Seadoo chargers as a cheaper alternative to the Rotrex untis that TTS are using or the Sprintex units that BigCC are now offering, has anyone got a picture and dimensions of one as a comparison?

[Redmohawk]

Pays to read look up further ^^^^^^^^^^

here it is again http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19298

[livewire]

The upgrade blower is too big for a bike?
Looks like a cheap upgrade, and you'll need about 15psi to double your stock horsepower.
4 psi will only give you about 25% increase
Or do you just wind the little one up a bit more?
Intercooled?

[Redmohawk]

The stock charger will put 8 psi into a 1.8L motor at 10,000 rpm if your doing a big big bike then maybe spin it to 55,000. Something like 1000cc bike I would start with a max rotor rpm around 40,000 and work from there. Just because the stock unit on the motor its designed for only runs to 8 Psi doesnt meen it not capable of far more on a smaller motor, it will just drop efficency a little more and heat the air more as the Boost level increases. From my little experaments with a home made flow bench and a geared up 10 hp BS motor driving this sucker I think boost into a 600cc bike in the order of 20 psi is quite easely do-able with the stock unit.

The upgraded units are basicly a new turbine and front housing (just like an upgrade for a turbo, changing the impeller to housing gap and vanes will varie the boost characteristics of the charger) in a nutshell less gap means more capability to sustain high boost levels and different vanes can increase air volume to an extent, also upgraded turbines are ballanced to 200,000 rpm so if you want really high boost levels they could be spun to over 100,000 rpm safely without fear of distruction (assuming rotor speed is under supersonic ), though the bearings may need to be upgraded if you intend to maintain that sort of rpm for long durations. (realitivly easy to do if your upgrading as you can buy an upgrade kit with tools for the job from the states for around $600 just add you own bearings to the mix )

I will be intercooling my beast and I would highly recomend anyone doing a similar setup to do the same. I'm doing this to a stock motor compression and cam wise so any decrease in intake temps will pay big divadends in controlling detonation. The test rig was heating air by around 50 deg over intake temps with the outlet restricted to give a boost level of 8 psi increasing the boost level by reducing the outlet futher increased heat to over 83 deg (couldnt measure higher than 83 deg with my current probe setup , was hot to touch housing but not burning me quite (no sizzle lol)) at a boost level of 18 psi 10 Hp motor was far from happy and couldnt measure temps or outlet flow at this rate anyhow so stopped tests.

From details I have managed to scrounge from then net and prodding people who are in the know, efficiency of the standard compressor wheel/housing should be around 70% at 40K rpm flow of somewhere around 450 cfm (about 300 hp) at at pressure ratio of about 1.5 (8 pounds boost at sea level) very similar to a vortech charger, higher rpms are possable but with the stock impeller going above 55k is just not worth the effort as its so far out of efficeny it will heat the air like a bitch and the blades will prob be supersonic and ready to come to bits. Mind you at 55k it should flow about 900 cfm at a ratio of 2.4 (21 pounds boost at sea level) but be down to 60% eff thats enough air for 600hp .

[Redmohawk]

Working on getting a compressor map from the states atm to find out what the real deal is.

[Dynomutt]

Having had a look at a couple on ebay, they look very similar to the Rotrex and sprintex units, but without the gearbox on the back. The Rotrex has a 10 to 1 gearbox on the back and the Sprintex has I believe a 4 to 1 set up. BigCC have had some pretty good results so far with the sprintex on both Dodges Busa that he uses for the wheely competitions, and the B King that they have done. Although no where near 600bhp from them. I'd be very interested to see a compressor map for one. One of the guys I know over here Pete Ford at Blackdragon motorcycles in Yeovil, uses an opcom blower on his 600 Bandit sprint bike, the motor is totally stock, he runs an old SU carb on the blower, when we put it on my dyno a couple of years ago, it was pumping out 145bhp using BioEthanol E85, (85% bioethanol and 15% unleaded)which is the best fuel to use if you retain the stock compression ratio, as it means he can run 18psi boost on the stock set up. There are other issues which arise from E85, but in this application it has worked very well.

[Redmohawk]

Yeah we have E85 here to , but only in major capital citys as far as I know and then only at specific servos. Pitty I'm very keen to play with it a bit, have a very high compression NA motor here built for meth that could do with some. Might have to take a 44 gal drum to the melb servo I think.

I know you need to use good Alcohol fuel rated fuel hose and related fuel components (carb gaskets rubbers etc) and there is a reduction in milage due to lower calrific output per volume (less mpg)

What other issues are there that you know of?

[Dynomutt]

It can be a lot more corrosive than normal unleaded fuel, the ethanol is also hygroscopic, so can suck moisture from the air. Generally you'll need to upjet by around 40%, increase the compression ratio to around 16+ to 1, the ignition timing will need looking at. It is very similar to running methanol in a lot of respects. There's the obvious issues with rubber compnents in the fuel delivery system, it can have an adverse effect on older fuel pumps. The increase in performance is usually tempered by the reduction in fuel mileage by a very similar amount. The biggest issues in terms of bike use is the lack of availability, here in the UK there are only a handful of filling stations nationwide that stock the stuff. I've looked into it purely for the performance gains, but until it is more widely available then it's a non starter. Pete Ford at Blackdragon is racing the bikes so it isn't too much of an issue as he has one of the few filling stations stocking it just down the road. His 600 Bandit is road legal, and indeed I rode it the day we had it on my dyno to warm the thing through, and I was suitably impressed with the power delivery it really pulls like a train and lifts the wheel in third without thinking about it when you wind the power on, he's done a cracking job of building it, and I'm looking forward to seeing the new bike he's building.

[Booster]

Blend it yourself ... ethanol or methanol is readily available for just over $1/lit
local servo was prepared to blend for me getting the ethanol from there supplier and i know my local bearing and lubricant supply stocks methanol and can get ethanol,

[Redmohawk]

So the usual issues and nothing more then.

Greg I was thinking that might be an option, there is a industrial Alc manufacture in shep area thought I might pay them a visit.