V-Twin supercharger

[Richd]

Hi to you all,
I'm currently building an SV thou and after much debating on the engine mods,TLR spec hi-comp or just supercharge it,I've decided to go for the blower.To successfully and reliably modify a v-twin is about the same money it would seem.Both end up at around the 140hp mark. Why bother with an SV?TL's much more sought after and are priced accordingly and are an ageing machine,euro gear is to dear to hack up.
In its current state it's near bag of shit slow and I'm well aware of the lengthy and expensive tuning process that supercharging involves.
What I need to know is if anyone out there can recommend the best type of supercharger,it seems to come down to centrifugal or screw and who you crew might deal with.Centrifugal blowers are lighter and more compact but seem to be aimed more at the higher rev range,Screw types produce higher boost at lower RPM but are heavier at about 4.5 kg compared to 2.5.
I'm after a snappy fat power curve similar to stock just more of it,the SUPER SQUALO,a W.A built 999 Ducati runs a Sprintex screw blower and is silly quick but this is about all I could find in Australia.As it is the SV is running a k5 gixxer front end,no fairing,Dymag c/f wheels and a fabricated aluminium ductail with many more bits to come.
Any help would be greatly appreciated as this is all starting to take shape
Thanks again

[Shadowzone]

Here's a VTR that's been done. I saw it in a mag a few yrs ago. Power wheelies in most gears 190 odd hp and hang the fuck on....

http://www.perthstreetbikes.com/forum/f14/supercharged-vtr-firestorm-14370/

I don't know the contact details of the bloke who built it, but I'm sure you could find them out easily enough.

[Redmohawk]

Horses for courses,

Positives
Centrifical is far more effecient at turning the hp in into compressed air out but mostly at higher pressures (above 8 psi), is usally easyer to mount as smaller and lighter, also (usally) has the same sort of tubular intake and outlet as a turbo so manifolds etc are easyer to get off the shelf if you care about that sort of stuff. If your rolling your own setup they can be purchased VERY cheaply ! Look up superchargers for seadoo's on ebay net etc 215 kw unit is standard 8 psi at 45,000 rpm (I got one for under $200 delivered brand new!)

Negatives
Centrifical superchargers are very rpm dependant (the compressor specifically depending on design etc will need to be spun between 45,000 and 150,000 rpm) most off the shelf units are pre geared so you need to rev them between 3000 to 8000 rpm to make boost and boost rises with rpm at a logrithmic rate, Ie at 1000 rpm no boost or so low you cant test it, 2000 rpm low boost 1 to 2 psi 3000 rpm 2 to 3 4000 rpm 4 to 6 psi 5000 6 to 10 6000 10 to 16 etc etc up to its max psi/rpm design. Not alot used on bikes as yet so info is limited and people don't seem overly keen to share, making it tricky to get good reliable info. Getting boost at lower rpms is tricky without overboosting or over reving at higher rpms.

Positives
Lobe type superchargers move a set amount of air for a given rpm with little difference till the rpm/boost gets above 8 to 10 psi IE 1000 rpm it will be about 4 psi and at 5000 rpm it will be about the same prob a little higher. Makes it easyer to tune bike somewhat if using carbs. Cheap to get if you buy a jap import car setup and adapt to your bike, lots to chose from , with units as short as around 25 cm in length almost square on one perspective and half as deep.

Neg
Lobe type usally need to be mounted as per original design as internal gears run in a oil bath, heat air alot due to lower effeciancy, they do not compress the air inside the blower so produce a puff of air for a part revolution needing a large volume of air on the compressed side to let the pressure waves disipate (larger plentum chamber the better good rule of thumb is twice cc'c of bike motor) Pulsation makes it harder to tune bike with carbs or map based fuel injection. Limited to lower boost levels due to diminishing returns on effeciancy.

Screw (most sprintex chargers are screw) is basically a modified lobe design, rotors are twisted into a screw arangment this is usally also a screw that gets tighter in pitch as it flows along length of rotor. This design produces good low end boost like a lobe at a lower energy cost (more effeciant) and less pulsation than a lobe unit. Cost is high due to limitied sorces (no cheap options) are expensive to rebuild for the same reason. Are generally larger and heavyer than lobe units for the same boost pressure and have the same mounting constraints as lobe units.

I have used all 3 on small capacity 6 cyl toyota car and also very large turbo at one stage, all with good sucess (motor was factory lobe unit at the start) then screw followed by centrifical then big turbo.

I'm currently fitting a centrifical to a GPX600 using a seadoo unit and making my own mounts up gearing and a magnetic torque clutch to limit top end boost to safe levels.

If you want good low end grunt at a price that wont brake the bank go the lobe compressor type heaps to chose from and heaps been done with them all over the place, if you want more fancy go the screw type will be slightly more power and bling but LOTS more cash. If you decide you want big top end power and stuff the lower torque go the centrifical, maybe NOS for the bottom end if you desire.

Good luck.

[ozzy1100]

if u have the money the best in my opp for a supercharger on a bike is the
rotex look it up, like i said not cheep but small and very effecant good power

[latheboy]

quote:Originally posted by ozzy1100

if u have the money the best in my opp for a supercharger on a bike is the
rotex look it up, like i said not cheep but small and very effecant good power


Rotrex is the way forward...

[nick76]

Theres a Supercharged VTR on ebay at the moment,and he says he's used it for advertising??
Is he a known performance guy,that anyone on here might know???
Maybe he sells various kits for different bikes??
He may be a supercharger expert???
Tho,some of these replies here,sound like they know what they are talking about.

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Honda-VTR-1000-Supercharged-1999-/270678286790?pt=AU_Motorcycles&hash=item3f05aee1c6

[Redmohawk]

I'd be asking if he built it himself with his own hands or if his wallet did the build, No Idea who he is etc and not trying to diss him but from the initial add info it sounds like he knows very little about the bike. If I had built it I would have more specifics in the initial details but thats me. I say ask him some info and see what he sez , at the least ask who built the bike and some specifics about it , will tell you pritty fast what he knows/doesnt. And why hasn't he sorted the fueling issue ? If he does this for a living and knows his shit that shouldnt be a major hurdel.

[Redmohawk]

Biggest single issue you will prob have with tuning the beast you plan is the pulsation in the plentum , from both a supercharger if you use a lobe type (boys ^^^^^ are right a Rotrex is a great move) then your issue is the pulsation casued by the fact you have two cyl's taking a big gulp instead of 4 taking smaller gulps making the plentum pressure pulsate in big waves. Is all doable though with both carbs and injection look at what the harley boys do and get away with.

[DiscoDan]

Have you seen the article in a recent Performance Bikes on a supercharged TL1000S? It was quite the beast and was putting out close to 200hp from memory. I'll see if I can drag out which issue it was from

[DiscoDan]

That's the Nov 2010 issue with the red 848 on the cover. It's running a Rotrex C15-60 kit from TTS putting out 200hp, given we all know that a v-twin hp is worth one and half 4 cyclinder hp I'd be guessing it would be a shit load of fun

[xa-mont]

I just looked at the location of that add and realised... They bloke who owns the VTR is a real estate agent in Paynesville and i doubt he did the work himself.

http://www.bretwardrealestate.com.au/ - notice the purple on his shop. He also has a purple with gold writing and whatnot jeep that he gets around in.

[fimpBIKES]

definitely head over to tlzone to get the details on that 'charged tl
cant remember his name (sam? is that it?) but his build thread is good and detailed from memory

[crazymofo]

yes sam is the bloke on the TLzone.net who built the beast featured in PB.

nice guy and plenty of knowledge, check his build threads 1st, before bothering him with questions.

also +1 on the rotrex,and dont worry about cylinder pulses doesnt affect the bike, just make sure youhave a min 2lt plenum chamber but i wouldnt not reccomend going bigger then 4lt.

cheers.joe.

[ozzy1100]

quote:Originally posted by crazymofo

yes sam is the bloke on the TLzone.net who built the beast featured in PB.

nice guy and plenty of knowledge, check his build threads 1st, before bothering him with questions.

also +1 on the rotrex,and dont worry about cylinder pulses doesnt affect the bike, just make sure youhave a min 2lt plenum chamber but i wouldnt not reccomend going bigger then 4lt.

cheers.joe.



im with u joe forget about the pulses as long as the lt are right
we used to work on at least x2 cc so on the 1000 2 lts would be on the money allso im a big fan of bellmouths on the inlets in plenum....

[Redmohawk]

yep

[Richd]

Thanks for all the replies guys that's wicked,
Yes I've sussed out Rotrex,sprintex and procharger amongst others,AMR and a range of car adaptions.Near got lost.all would work it's just which for what etc.I know I need to talk to someone who's run screw,lobe and centrifugal on similar bikes or better still ride some!Anyway this is still a relatively experimental area and this is where it starts.The SUPER SQUALO runs a sprintex screw type I believe as does the VTR on ebay,interesting rig and I'll try to contact him. This blown TL on TLzone is definitely the closest set up to what would fit my bike so I'll check that out.Redmohawk thanks a lot for your detailed reply and I'd be real keen to know how your project comes together,power curve differences and tips from experience.I'll stay in touch and cheers again

[Booster]

That e bay vtr looks like the original one featured in mags lots several yrs ago, i believe that one ran a sc12 or sc14 toyota blower

the busa rotrex i have in the sale section for a mate ,has a drive that would probably suit a TL

Brett is probably worth a call as he makes the drive and bearing support that mounts in the crank access plug ,and suzuki have lots of interchangability between models ..

[jmw76]

That's a reasonable sized blower on that VTR.
You wouldn't want to get your clothing caught in that belt.

[Richd]

No worries mate will give him a buzz.As far as I have found out the C30-94 might be a tad big for my application.The 200hp TL 1000s run a C15-60 ,as do most rotrex supercharged bikes,which is much smaller and lighter.Some are intercooled some aren't this seems like the go though.acres of research to go.

[latheboy]

There's alot of good info in this link..

http://victorylibrary.com/supercharger/super-choices3.htm