Criminalised ?

[HOS]

http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults/General-news/2010/July/jul0610-australian-police-to-declare-hells-angels-criminal/

[bluemk1]

problem?

[sharky]

I ain't going down this road again....

[Gitzy]

And why shouldnt they be classed as a criminal organisation?? there mostly bloody criminals Hos, just cos they ride bikes?? is this your prob.. I know you hate the law but seriously dude your not that naive, most of these 'Bikie gangs' are supplying our youth with drugs, bashing people left right and centre, sparking rival gang wars the list goes on.. what makes them different from some kind of prison gang or LA street gang, the mere fact they ride motorcycles?? no way.. they dont usually meet up for shits and giggles or the odd BBQ do they.. read some of this and tell me they shouldnt be classed as criminals..

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/angels-they-arent/story-e6frf7kx-1111113799772

[sharky]

Are there laws in place regards the manufacture and supply of drugs...Yes.

Are there laws in place regards prostitution...Yes.

Are there laws in place regards extortion.....Yes.

So why can they not use existing legislation against them ?


quote:what makes them different from some kind of prison gang or LA street gang, the mere fact they ride motorcycles?? no way..

Are the bikies the only groups that do the things the media claim ??

It's only because the bikies are such high profile that the authorities need to grandstand and bring in more laws...instead of just doing there job properly in the first place.

If you are blinkered enough to believe the media then I feel sorry for you....

[latheboy]

Are you saying that these "bikie gangs" are good people who spend time at the old peoples home on a sunday, or some other community based program?

Who gives a fuck, really guys.
Why stand up for a bunch of heros who would beat the shit out of you for riding a jap bike?

[Booster]

Not standing up for them , but Russ is right its just propaganda to target these groups that have a high profile and easily identifiable when they are only part of the drug problem, would you get the same degree of interest and these draconian laws passed if for example asian gangs were depicted
there discriminating against a culture which in many ways we are part of , just a matter of degrees....

[NoZ]

It's in the MCN... nuff said. Tis like reading the Daily Facist (Mail) for bikers.

I've met some HA peeps and they aren't all crims. Yeah, the patch equals doing things that are a bit naughty (ok, quite alot naughty) but most of government should be criminalised after the arse invasion they just served us up!

Not fair to tar them all with the same brush. I'm sure when a chapter gets out of line, they have to answer to the boss. Rock n hard place.

[NoZ]

p.s HA over there isn't the same as over here HOS.... bit more hardcore me thinks

[Chase]

The more HArleys off the road the more space there is under bus shelters when it rains..

[Redmohawk]

Sharky has put it in a nutshell, the reason the coppers pushed the big wiggs to do something like this about (bike gangs) is that there not stupid fuckers like your average criminal. They have so much trouble getting into the gang to get info due to the way they operate, and once the hidden pigs get into the gang they have done so much "did it to join the gang and fit in shit" that there so tainted they dont want to leave lol the big busts in the states and europe was mostly stumbled onto by hooking in nutcases lol.

And the coppers hate not being able to get in and push there way through using the law as a big shield to make there intrusions justified, so make the gang illegal and they can do as they please!

Its just more horse shit law to fuck anyone that wants to be different in the police state of Aus , you think I'm ranting on about crap? Look at NSW and its new insurance laws, do you honastly think they didn't think about the extra costs to us? Pfffft What happens if the proposed law against "Angels" does go through hmmmm do you think they will say oh shit we better shut shop ? Like fuck there not stupid just take there patch jacket off and drive the misses car to meets !

And what happens then ??? Hmmmm the ASF member that moves into a new area invites all his/her ASF mates around for a party or two and the next door get the shits with bikes everywhere and music drunken bikeys so rings the cops and sez those fucking "Angels" are having a meeting here hmmmm

Don't think it will happen? I bet you your wrong! I'm a licenced shooter who has had so many firearms that i had to be fingerprinted a back to base alarm system and a dealers licence in the past, because of that the police have the "right" to search me and anyone with me at any time for any reason and my place of residence and or any place they find me! Without explanation. And yes I have had it happen , nothing found no reason given no oppology after and no kiss goodnight. Yet the known drug dealer 2 houses down never get a visit the illegal escort agencey accross the road never visited , the fuck head who bashes his misses on the other side never warned more than "if we have to come back you getting locked up"

Me harrased because i dont get alone with the local District Firearms Officer (cop in charge of guns in the area, and known to be bent)

I say let em be the laws being pushed are just because the cops are pissed because they are making less money selling drugs the other people ! You want to save the word from its self ? Easy legalise drugs and stop treating fuckhead that overdose ! Darwins natural selection. In the states something like 3/4 of all people locked up are in for drug offences , and the 3 strikes your in deal lol It costs $40,000 a year to keep one in the lockup dead from overdose they cost $10,000 to put in the ground once lol Why do you think our taxes keep going up lol

[Redmohawk]

I feel better now

[Jup]

quote:Originally posted by Redmohawk
Me harrased because i dont get alone with the local District Firearms Officer (cop in charge of guns in the area, and known to be bent)


And the lesson is? If you need someones permission to do what you want to do, don't piss them off!

I've never once been in trouble for doing something I wasn't actually guilty of doing, and "yes sir, no sir, three bags full sir" has gotten me a reduced consequence (or no consequence) every single time.

As for the supposed "innocent HAs", they know who they're associating with, and they know the consequences of being associated with them.

If you slap a dog and it bites you, it's your own stupid fault.

[ALBI]

hey redmohawk sounds like you live in doonside!!
if you read the legis, legist ah fuck it the letter its all down on you will read that no where on this form is bike gang or bike club related mentioned at all it is aimed at any criminal organisation,now i dont know about you(the aussie in genral) but appart from the fictional caractors in the UNDERBELLY series the only criminal organisations in ausrtralia is the 1%outlaw bike gangs!! well ones the the australian public know of!!
now yes i am also a fan of harleys and was suposed to get mine in december and you have to remember that a patch club like ie; hells angels is mainly made of defecting bandidos,commoncheros and other small minority groups when the h a wanted to move into australia it was either join or bear the rath !ironicly they joined dont know why ?as there was no HA here only some devoet ones from the states .anyway thus hells angels formed (providing my memory serves me correct,as my ol man told me most of this as he was a former member of "forth ricght"i thinks thats how it is spelt? based in wollongong and he rode a kick as red triumph chopper,)he was a member becuase in the late 60s it was just a club were young hetro males rode and talked about bikes and babes! "sound familiar" and not raping ,stealing,selling drugs,yes he did grow a shit load of !well you can work it out!! and only only grew it for the members for their own personal use,now some of you are reading thinking what the fuck growing drugs and distribution ??hello iligeal goings on here!! so what about the burnouts on public streets the wheelies in front off inocent public bystanders the top speed runs that we all love most of the thing we here at ASF love to do are illegal in sort of form!! but fuck em all huh??most of us say as we sit here saying to ourselfs its only a burn out its only a wheelie,its only smoking pot or growing for you own use and giving some to ur mates "and no i dont smoke,grow or sell it my only high is raping the living shit out of my TL 1000s FUCK YEH!!!!
there is always someone in ur street doing something!!
i have an senior comanchero 3 doors down from me dont here pep from him has great kids has a tidy house and some kick ass ol MX racebikes has a truck well a small one at that and pays his taxes and land rates like all of us ! and is an member of a bike club where they talk off babes ,bikes and the last ride they were on where some goose fell of because he was trying to do a burn out and fucked it up ,and did you see that davo was fucking his misus and some boys were watching !or that a mate was killed by a car and then they all dedicate a patch to their jacket to remember him/her and spend the rest of their time together rembering the fun and bad times !! and raising money for the local kids or charitys !!!kind of like most of us here at ASF we have a patch? dont we its only small but it still a patch we ride together we laugh together we drink piss together we share dirty pics toghether we share our storys together!! we even remember our fallen brother together !!" RIP bullfrog " never meet him but all the storys and yarns and posts of him make him an alround good bloke , enough for a trust fund to be going !!!
so if the cops think that someone in our group is doing something illegal like growing or selling or manufactureing bad shit or selling "guns" or leaving them out were an young child can get acees to them then what is the problem they are only protecting our rights to a damm fucking fine country that we call "HOME" .
and redmohawk i wasnt aiming the gun side at you either mate ??
if a cop goes into a house and find drugs and guns and a meth lab in ur street wouldnt you want the fucker behind bars ?????unfortunatly most of those fuckers are 1% outlaws and the patch is their belive/right of wat and who they belive in a little bit like those god preaching fuckers who dont belive condoms and abortions hmmm you can get STD's all you want ,you can get raped or make a bad decission when u r young ,were a boy tells you ,yes i will pull out then dont and you get preganent and a big life changing deceission is to get an abortion so that baby dont get tossed away or given up for adoption or aboused mentaly or sexually because the baby/child is a hinderence to the parent or the priest that mollests a young child for fuck knows how long and nobody listens because the priest is the be all and end all and preacher of "GODs LOVE".
or the bloke that has a shit load of rifles and pistols in his property all locked up and no chance of some fuckwit breaking in to steel and go and shoot some one for $10???? i used to have a "SKS and a SKK both with pistol grips and i loved them the right to go and shoot in the ouback with my licennce of course but i diddnt have a safe or someone with one i hid it in the roof hopeing it was safe and it was but wat if some one broke into my house through the roof and found these ?? fuck me i shiver now and that is how this shit happens or some one tells a mate who tells a mate albi has this riffle or that one and he dont have a safe all of a sudden im robbed and the riffle is on the street killing some poor cunt (and yes this is now aimed at you redmowhawk soory champ) if you pissed of a copper and he knows you have riffles and shit at home and comes in and finds nothing to be able to take action then mate that tells alot for you ?? safe keeping and all ?is all i can ask for as an citizen of this fucking great land "australia" just remember this cop is doing his job !well maybee a bit harder than he should ,his bedside manner is a little fucked tho !!all the power to him mate because if he aint who the fuck is !!!
if some one is being good and is a good law abiding citizen then wat have we got to be affraid off???if he wasnt doing it and you relaxed a little bit and someone broke in and took the shit how would you feel ripped off and where the fuck is the police to find this prick!!! its a fine line the cops walk !!!
this aint america
this aint iraq
this aint the middle fucking east
this is AUSTRALIA and i love the fucking joint!!!

[Booster]

Red is in the same area as me, and i'm sure the guy he doesn't get along with has the same first name as me (shoots on my place) , were not big city and not much goes on that isn't heard about
the local patch club members are our brothers,cousins,nephews,school friends,neighbours, all mostly normal, just have a bit of a wild side and i believe its a good thing that they can hang out in as group , just like the local footy team or other groups with similar interests .
While there may be some within the "bikie" community that would be of concern to the cops, there are just as many others in other communitys of equal concern ..
I love Australia too but have some concern as to the direction things are going ,
the thought police are closer than ever......

[Redmohawk]

Guys your both right on many points just one exception, you both automaticly assumed I pissed the copper off , not possable I came to a new town with all my Guns did the right thing and there all registered spent $1500 on making one whole room into a giant gun safe (no windows back to base alarm steel door with secrity keys etc etc etc) told firarms registry of my move etc had the place inspected rar rar rar consulted with local DFO met him for the first time real nice bloke alls good he even came over and had a coffee still a real nice bloke all's good eh beuty .

Hmmmmm then he asks what the long term plan? I say deal a few guns start a shop I hear theres two in town and the smaller one is for sale , he is quiet, next day search at 6 am of my whole house everything all detail's pulled over 18 times in 2 weeks etc etc licence checks the lot roadwothies etc etc . I take the lot wondering what the deal is but play nice, go talk with gunshop owner that is selling , not mentioning local DFO or cops at all, he pipes up and sez watch local DFO he is bent! Find out later through other people the guy is selling becasue DFO is doing same thing to shop owner !

I have several mates on the force so I make enquirys turns out local DFO is mates with large gun shop owner and looks afer his mates , has a rep (in the force of being bent and doing "deals") so i Give up and sell most of my stuff as I'm not leaving town for a while (partner kid etc) all of the sudden no more harrasmet!

Some coppers are far worse than the H A !

As far as the laws concerend most are good people doing a job , the law there pushing through to beat the "Bad guy clubs" WON'T MAKE A FUCKING DIFFERENCE to any one involved there targeting ! They are working out systems to combat the laws and have been since the cops were dumb enough to try!

The problem is in this world we have dickheads running the show that are there to line there own pockets first and do the right thing second told what to do by large powerful groups lining there own pockets as well. So they assume that leglislating for NUFF NUFFS is the only way to run things and continue to stuff more and more laws that wont work and are proven not to work over and over yet they continue to do so because it makes them look like there trying to fix it.

Think I'm wrong ? Look into a little history, and not 100 years ago or anything but just the last 30 , I'm 38 so i can remember the last 30 sort of ok lol well the high and low lights anyway haha. Rememer seatbelts being an optional extra in cars ? I can because my parents didnt have enough cash to buy a newish one we belted around in an old holden station wagon with no back seatbelts for years. So laws came in to improve our cash statistics great and you get a fine for not wearing one now thats say $200 but how many people are killed in crashes today still because they dont wear a seatbelt ? lots less than before sure as almost all cars have em now. But the morons still dont wear em and speed/drive like fuck heads.

Look at drug laws years ago doctors encouraged herroin and dope use to people as a relaxant ! shit Tas had a great industry growing popies to supply it lol now they supply the medical industry. Now with all those laws making it illegal there shouldn't be an issue after 100 years of it being illegal if the laws work yet or drug issues are worse now than when it was legal and grown in back yards!

PS i dont do any drugs generally of any kind including perscribed or non perscription except alcohol (and a few panadol about twice a year) , unless i'm dying of an infection. But i have tryed most ilicid drugs at some time in my life (just don't get a buzz from them) just because I don't doesnt mean I dont mind others getting off there head, with common sence of course ie stay off the road etc.

If you want to fix the problems we have in society more stupid laws are not the answer! what there are doing is Illegal you dont need to make a group of people Illegal is about as smart as saying the local mothers club is outlawed. If people in society stopped turning a blind eye to shit it would stop right there. Big scarry drug dealers etc are just that scary not invincable if half of your local men foke from town turned up at a club house and said fuck off or else they would leave simple as that!

I work on live and let live myself , if you piss me off there is only one law MINE and i will do as i please ! I will deal with the consequence of my actions in your laws after I have done as i see fit. In my travels i have met Angels and others shit i worked with the local Outlaws club president for 2 years (very nice bloke and the group here are mostly nice blokes) but get in there way in the wrong way and you will have to face there law before they face yours!

[Redmohawk]

NO booster it wasnt the guy your taking about was another town about 2 hours north I ended up moving back here after all that shit, but there is a similar story in this town from what i hear . Yes talk gets around.

My dealings with the guy your talking about have been fine, others have said things but as i said above I take people as they treat me and he's ok by me. I came back here as Its a known quantity here, growning up in a place give you advantages, but the market was already taken here with 2 shops so i moved onto other things. And now you'd be mad to try and make money long term from firearms.

[2ndclasscitizen]

Stupid, dangerous laws that are nothing but a kneejerk to media outcry from what was some rampant public stupidity from some outlaw clubs, but will still only serve to ensure any members of these clubs who weren't criminals before now will be.

[Redmohawk]

well said citizen!

[BANDITROD]

its just the same old shit really isnt it..... it only takes a few to spoil a bunch ...how many of you guys have had anything to do with the so called big bad bikies cos i have and almost all of the blokes i know and have partied with are top blokes not all of them are fucking criminals IMO anyway

[ALBI]

hey redmohawk i didnt assume you pissed the copper off!! one of the reasons my wife and i are going to marriage counciling is because i can not express my words in the correct way !! what i ment was the cooper or dpo who ever the fuck it is was pissed off because of you wanting to rain in on their parade of an shop and then being in competion there for you pissed them off!! im sorry if this isnt the correct way to say it but that is the way i ment for it !! does that make sence???

[Redmohawk]

is all good ALBI is just my rant as usual , take everything i say with the usual internet filter on lol On a personal note sorry to hear theres an issue at home with comunication but they are from a different plannet acording to some book so prob explains some of it mate lol I'm sure you'll work it out.

Personaly I really get the shits up with little things some time but let it wash off just as fast, IE about a weeks ago walking down the local mall with school hols on i watched one young punk (about 10) of indigionous origin intimidate a much larger 16 year old down the mall because he had his tribe about 20 m away watching, the 16 year old just took it all. So internet hero mohawk walked through the crowd of his tribe and they parted like the red sea (I was in my jacket and had pulled up on the bike not 5 min before infront of them and watched the show as i took my helmet n gloves off)

Then i walked directly towards the young punk in question and as i approched said punk spat a great big lugie right in front of me, balls for a 10 year old i think, so i grabed the little fucker and lifted him up by his neck and squeezed told him i saw him down here again i'd fold him in half put him down and walked off. Didn't look back back, in the reflection of the window i saw the tribe had run off and left him to be whipped lol.

Yes I have left myself open to several Issues and explaining it on a public forum wouldnt help my case if there was one lol But its been almost two weeks and i have been down the mall almost every day (good coffee and a mate has a shop there) and low and behold no kids noticed in the group (mate kept an eye out for them as there known pains in the ass) Shit happens if people let it, if they dont tolerate it it stops or goes somewhere else. Now if someone watched it and I'm sure plenty saw as there were people all around ignoring this bullshit behavior. Would be interesting to hear what the locals said about the biker who scared the punks off I think, seeing as the local coppers are about stuffed as to what to do with em.

[Redmohawk]

We have at least two groups of kids with an average age of 12 running around here alot of nights beating up randoms mostly soft targets like other kids and drunk adults, cops are stuffed as the little fuckers are not totally dumb and run/hide well wont be to much longer and someone will be killed by these dickheads, A month ago I almost run 10 of em over in the middle of the street coming home with my son about 1am on a Friday night . They kept kicking the pore fucker in the head even after I stopped with my lights from burtha lighting up everything and didnt do the bolt till I opened my door, one cheeky little fuck even looked right at me from not 5 m away and gave me the finger! If I see him in this area during the day he will get the fright of his life !

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by Booster

patch club members are our brothers,cousins,nephews,school friends,neighbours, all mostly normal, just have a bit of a wild side and i believe its a good thing that they can hang out in as group , just like the local footy team or other groups with similar interests .



Greg I am not a big believer in any of these laws but I have to disagree on this one mate. If all of this were true then they wouldn't need a patch to start with. You know as soon as you sew that patch on (in a non gay sewing method of course) you are associating yourself with criminals because you either are one or you just want to be a bad arse. Either way they know exactly what is happening and clearly don't care because they have joined up anyway.

[sharky]

2 things have come to mind today...

When the papers/tv/media run an anti motorcycle story there's is loads of noise...media is anti bike etc....

Yet when the same media runs an anti Bikie story a lot of you believe it and join in the ragging of the bikies....which makes some of you no better than Joe Public that believes the papers/tv tell the truth.

Second, the current anti hoon laws were brought in to act against those drivers smoking tyres and generally being cockheads...

Yet 'suprise suprise' we are now having those rules used against us for trimming down rear mudguards...

There are some very good sides to belonging to a large club...nothing beats riding into town with 300 fellow members with the streets lined with men,women and kids waving at the long line of bikes...

Oh, and not all patch club members ride hardleys...

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by sharky


There are some very good sides to belonging to a large club...nothing beats riding into town with 300 fellow members with the streets lined with men,women and kids waving at the long line of bikes...


I agree but do you need colours to do this?

[sharky]

No you don't...but then I don't do 'toy runs' etc...too many knobs that don't know how to ride in a group...no thanks...
There are many things that go on that don't get press...
'HA chapter holds bbq for friends and family and nothing happens' is hardly news worthy is it...

[JackTar]

I'm sure there are just as many (if not more) nefarious activities they get up to that don't get press either mate.

[sharky]

Yep....just like when the Navy boys go out on the town ;)

[Redmohawk]

Or the cops go out on the piss lol

[JackTar]

How many times have you seen the cops literaly beat someone to death in an airport in front of families Red?

[Dick]

Take a look at the majority of bullshit laws that have been introduced in recent history. In the majority of cases, those that are drafting these laws go after a minority group. So the majority don't care because it "doesn't affect them"

Gun laws - no semi auto rifles anymore, but was there unity from gun owners against this? Pistol owners didn't give a shit because it didn't affect them. Fast forward a few years and guess what. Pistol owners get restrictions placed on them using the same narrow minded short sighted justification.

Anti hoon laws, again no-one gives a shit because if you're not hooning, you won't get penalised. Guess what. You and a couple of mates out for a sunday morning ride can now have your bikes impounded and be charged for illegal street racing. Remember though that you didn't give a shit about these laws because you weren't the Commodore driving P plater that the authorities were after.

There's a serious push to have 4WD's banned from urban areas (let by none other that Harold Scruby and his Pedestrian Council) that will no doubt meet little resistance from the motorcycling community. We'll all get told that 4WD's aren't necessary in the city, and we'll agree. No one NEEDS a 4WD and besides, they're a danger to everyone around them. Just don't be too suprised when you are no longer allowed to ride you motorcycle on a public road. After all, no-one NEEDS a motorcycle, and they are a danger to all those that ride them.

Every time we all allow (support!) another minority group to be screwed by lawmakers we weaken our own position. Even if we don't support the minority, or their activities, we should be supporting their right to do whatever the hell they want, as long as it's within the law.

If members of motorcycle clubs are dealing and manufacturing drugs, prosecute them under the same laws that are used to prosecute every other dealer and manufacturer of illicit drugs. Outlawing being a member of a club because other members of that club break the law is outrageous. As has been mentioned, how many members of ASF have admitted to performing illegal acts, speeding, wheelies, burnouts etc. on this forum? If you are a member here, you are now tarred with the indescretions of everyone else here, like it or not. Don't for a second think that these laws will stop with outlaw motorcycle clubs.

[sharky]

That was one of their own I thought...and the old school members weren't impressed...
And shock, horror they saw it for real...instead of on tv night after night...

[sharky]

Just a thought...so if members of a group break the law, and the group can be classed a criminal organisation...
What about the police force ?????? ...many of them break the very laws they are meant to be upholding ...:D

[JackTar]

Wheelies and speeding:

http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1278578101.jpg


Murder and drug dealing:

http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1278504202.jpg

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by sharky

Just a thought...so if members of a group break the law, and the group can be classed a criminal organisation...
What about the police force ?????? ...many of them break the very laws they are meant to be upholding ...:D


Of course they do but they are not recruited to break the law where as I would argue patch club members are.

[Jup]

quote:Guess what. You and a couple of mates out for a sunday morning ride can now have your bikes impounded and be charged for illegal street racing.

I'll accept just one anecdote about 2 riders NOT SPEEDING who had their bikes impounded for street racing, otherwise, I'm calling bullshit.

[sharky]

Then you argue wrong mate.

[Redmohawk]

Jacktar on tv never myself but , they have done many many things and got away with it and will continue to do so.

How in any way would these new laws have helped in that case? Everything was seen in plain view and even video tapped in 3 directions ! they were fucked from the start and did it anyway, and as sharky stated there elders were less than impressed lol prob got a smack themselves lol

[JackTar]

Then why the rigorous selection process Sharky? If they are just a bunch of blokes who like to go riding I should be able to just start wearing the patch for whichever club I wish to "just ride with" shouldn't I?

[StuNVA]

We have enough laws, we just need a non corrupt Police Force to enforce them.

Really who gives a toss if they bend the law a little to rid out street of a drug dealer or some other form of scum, but to take away someones civil rights because of association is not what I signed up for.

We don't need a law that allows the police to prosecute a minority by association, that is dictatorial bullshit.

If the law was passed I bet it wouldn't even include the words Hells Angles, thus martial law is but a phone call away.

If you think making the club illegal will fix the problem you are seriously deluded.

These problems will exist as long as man kind exists, if it's not the "bikie clubs" it'll be the "triads" or the "mafia" or some other bloody group supplying the shit the dead heads use. As harsh as it sounds I agree with the Natural Selection theory, legalise it, tax it, and let the knob heads cure demand by over dosing. These drug "power houses" would go broke overnight.

[sharky]

quote:Then why the rigorous selection process Sharky
To be sure the new member was trust worthy and dedicated to supporting the club...much the same as I can't just walk onto a ship and say I'm in the navy now...
There is a selection process...there are lots that don't make the grade and get told politely to go away....
There are many rules in the clubs that are upheld a lot mor strictly than the laws of this land...
One that stands out (in the club I was in) was that any one caught using heroin would be instantly kicked out and never associated with again. This was because the drug would control you and you could not be trusted.

[Redmohawk]

JackTar simple, they don't have internet hero's to keep there group honast lol

[sharky]

Lets just imagine for a minute that overnight all the bikie clubs disappeared...
Would all drug manufacturing and supplying suddenly stop ?
Or would another group(triad,mafia,etc) step in and fill the gap in the supply/demand chain....
In Canada after a huge, and expensive operation they police took down the top members of a large club...2 years later and they are stronger than ever...and business is booming..
Even the undercover cop admitted it wasn't worth the cost (financially to the tax payers and personally to him).

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by sharky


quote:Then why the rigorous selection process Sharky
To be sure the new member was trust worthy and dedicated to supporting the club...much the same as I can't just walk onto a ship and say I'm in the navy now...
There is a selection process...there are lots that don't make the grade and get told politely to go away....
There are many rules in the clubs that are upheld a lot mor strictly than the laws of this land...
One that stands out (in the club I was in) was that any one caught using heroin would be instantly kicked out and never associated with again. This was because the drug would control you and you could not be trusted.


I'm not too sure why I need to be trustworthy to go for a ride with some mates, whereas I think I probably do have to be in order to protect the country and its interests.

Why would you have to 'make the grade' just to hang out with some like minded individuals unless of course said like minded individuals had to make sure you weren't going to tell someone about their illegal activities and how they get away with them?

As for heroin well I'm pretty sure it is common knowledge that dealers of hard drugs don't do the drugs themselves because they see what it does to the people they give them to.

As for the police being currupt well I'm not denying that some are however I beleive that the majority of police are upholding the law and doing more good than bad, I doubt the same could be said for any patch club.

I am not for a second saying that these laws are right or that they even need to exist, I just think that if we beleive patch clubs are just a bunch of blokes that like to ride, drink and play poker with each other we need to wake the fuck up.

[Dick]

JackTar I agree that the two issues are apples and oranges. My point is, prosecute the wheelies and speeding, or the murder and drug dealing. Not the club membership.

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by sharky

Lets just imagine for a minute that overnight all the bikie clubs disappeared...
Would all drug manufacturing and supplying suddenly stop ?
Or would another group(triad,mafia,etc) step in and fill the gap in the supply/demand chain....
In Canada after a huge, and expensive operation they police took down the top members of a large club...2 years later and they are stronger than ever...and business is booming..
Even the undercover cop admitted it wasn't worth the cost (financially to the tax payers and personally to him).


I agree this is exactly the case but this is not my argument mate.

[Dick]

Jup see the point I made above. Fine, book me and everyone riding with me for speeding if that is what we were doing. But don't throw street racing at me.

[sharky]

quote:I'm not too sure why I need to be trustworthy to go for a ride with some mates
It's a little bit more than that isn't it mate and you know it.
On our 'runs' I could have walked into the campsite and taken my pic of the bikes with keys left in them ...
Because we all trusted each other there was never an issue with someone stealing anything...
Compare that to the major bike events in the UK where people go around nicking from the tents whilst the crowds are watching the bands...
One year the HA caught the lowlife red-handed coming out of someones tent with their gear...so they went on stage and asked for any one who had been robbed to make there way to the front of the stage..they then dragged out the thief and his mates...(they had found the van full of stolen gear) and threw said scum into the crowd.

[JackTar]

Well if that is all it is for Russ I think the selection process in the UK may be a bit different to what it is here.

And why DO you trust everyone on our runs Russ? I know I sure as hell didn't have any sort of gruelling initiation and months of waiting to get to ride with guys off this forum.

I think we may just have to agree to disagree on this one Russ.

[sharky]

By 'our runs' I was referring to the club days in the uk mate...not ASF stuff.....would trust you as far as you could throw a pillow....but I still shared a room with ya ;)

[JackTar]

And by god you looked alright with your head buried in said pillow.

[Redmohawk]

One queston for all , how many people do you think walk into a patch club and ask to be involved? I'd bet its a fucking low number, Most of the local members here I know were bred into the club lol sure there are a few blow ins but the local blokes must number over 100 here.

I know some , including the prez but i'm not best buddies invited to his house or anything but have been told on several occasions to drop into the club house when ever and say hello. I worked in a nightclub locally for 10 years ruffly and they pop in once and a while to TALK with someone who's maybe being a little flippant with there dealings lol. On every occasion they dropped in they were always certious and friendly quite often joking around and never did I ever have a problem with any of them. I doubt there boss told em to look after me , I'm not important to them. Only once was there any trouble and it was sorted very quickly when someone had a go at a members son i think it was about 4 onto him. Though i wasnt there that night.

Sure they may/are be involved with drugs and yes in our little patch group of internet hero's there are to I know . As with all groups of people . Granted the HA my be the big bad group and have a general ethos of do as we please fuck your laws, still doesnt change the fact that these laws proposed will not change a thing for the clubs/problems there designed to fight.

But they will make other people lives harder in many ways, what happens if this law is pushed through? Do you think Joe Blow knows or cares if there is a difference between a harley riding patch club rider and us on an AFR ride ? I doubt it.

I don't trust anybody till they prove themselves to be trustworthy, bitten far to many times to bother with easy trust now days. Though I must say I have been very pleasantly supprised by the cander openess and general honasty of people on this site.

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by Redmohawk

these laws proposed will not change a thing for the clubs/problems there designed to fight.



Oh yes they will, hence why they are trying to stop them.

[JackTar]

I was wondering when you would pipe up postie.

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Gitzy

And why shouldnt they be classed as a criminal organisation?? there mostly bloody criminals Hos, just cos they ride bikes?? is this your prob.. I know you hate the law but seriously dude your not that naive, most of these 'Bikie gangs' are supplying our youth with drugs, bashing people left right and centre, sparking rival gang wars the list goes on.. what makes them different from some kind of prison gang or LA street gang, the mere fact they ride motorcycles?? no way.. they dont usually meet up for shits and giggles or the odd BBQ do they.. read some of this and tell me they shouldnt be classed as criminals..

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/angels-they-arent/story-e6frf7kx-1111113799772


Gitsy I am not making any comment about the law or the bike clubs, I was raising the question: has it happened yet ? The news media here says the Aus gov is considering making them illegal thats all.

[JackTar]

And now look what you've caused you tin foil hat wearing mother fucker.:D

[sharky]

They tried similar in Canada years ago cc...the clubs just removed their patches in public and went about their business blending in to the rest of society...and the police lost track of them...
Yep...that worked...

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by JackTar

Then why the rigorous selection process Sharky? If they are just a bunch of blokes who like to go riding I should be able to just start wearing the patch for whichever club I wish to "just ride with" shouldn't I?

I bet you there are a few golf or country clubs where the selection process is just as rigorous, if they are just a bunch of blokes who like playing golf I should just be able to rock up and have a round at whichever club I wish to shouldn't I?

[JackTar]

Apples and oranges again Tony, I'm fairly confident golf clubs don't require members conduct illegal activities to prove they are worthy and don't suggest that the patch clubs don't either because I know they do for a fact, perhaps not all but defenitely fair amount.

[HOS]

The UK system is bent as fuck no doubt about it.

My view is who the hell are the scuzzie politicians to tell anyone how to behave?

If you want to have a looksie about how bent our UK system is take a peek at systematic child abuse by the authorities in charge here?

http://www.pienmashfilms.com/

Read up about Hollie Grieg yet ?

http://www.ukcolumn.org/2010/02/11/angiolini-covering-for-paedophilia

Justice in this country ? Not in my lifetime !

I do relate a lot to the bike clubs and their culture, a few people have asked me why I never joined. Too old too crippled now anyway.

I know thats a contradiction in my beliefs, but as you get older you get sick of and jaded by the lying cheating bastards who claim to represent the law and justice. [xx(]

Law ? Their is no law !

The fuckers who make the laws will only apply them to suite themselves, to whom they want to and when they want to, if they want to.
When it come to their own kind and big issues, the laws becomes all vague or irrelevant.

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by sharky

They tried similar in Canada years ago cc...the clubs just removed their patches in public and went about their business blending in to the rest of society...and the police lost track of them...
Yep...that worked...


Exactly !
Aint rocket science is it.

The Dutch Government declared all bike clubs to be illegal militia a few years ago. Didnt change anything.

[Gitzy]

quote:Originally posted by HOS

Gitsy I am not making any comment about the law or the bike clubs, I was raising the question: has it happened yet ? The news media here says the Aus gov is considering making them illegal thats all.




All good dude, I think I jumped the gun, but you started an interesting debate to say the least with 1 link hey... lol. ;)

[JackTar]

I'm trying to imagine Dutch bikies and I keep picturing Gold Member.

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by JackTar

Apples and oranges again Tony, I'm fairly confident golf clubs don't require members conduct illegal activities to prove they are worthy and don't suggest that the patch clubs don't either because I know they do for a fact, perhaps not all but defenitely fair amount.


Maybe they don't require you to commit a crime to join, but I bet their membership has a similar percentage of criminals.

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Gitzy


quote:Originally posted by HOS

Gitsy I am not making any comment about the law or the bike clubs, I was raising the question: has it happened yet ? The news media here says the Aus gov is considering making them illegal thats all.




All good dude, I think I jumped the gun, but you started an interesting debate to say the least with 1 link hey... lol. ;)


I maintain a "saving my health" respect for the bike clubs.
TBh I admire aspects of the way they live although I couldnt do it.

No one knows their business unless your in the club and if you do know, best not talk about it ;)

[Gixxer_rat85]

Too pissed to read all the lengthy posts on this, but once clubs (any club, from long-stitch appreciaters to car clubs or even bike clubs), can be outlawed as criminal gangs we are ALL in a lot of trouble. Individuals commit crimes, not clubs. If you and I were both members of club x, (ok, bad example), and I was dealing coke, or robbing kwik-e-marts or whatever, would that make you a criminal? Of course not! Letting the law throw a blanket over entire clubs coz of a bad rep, or actions of some members, we may as well put on red shirts and march in goose step. My 2 cents

[HOS]

Quiz for ya ;):D

Which club does this describe?

Has a very tough initiation ceremony.
Once you`re in you`re in for life, unless kicked out in disgrace or dead.
Has its own heirarchy of ranks and officers.
Has very few if any female members.
Has its own signs for club members and its own language.
Has its own club houses with admission for members or their guests only.
Club regalia must be worn in the club house/meetings.
You take into your home and shelter other club members when asked to.
What is discussed in the clubhouse stays there.
The club runs annual events raising thousands of pounds for worthy charities.
Total loyalty to the club is moot.
You further the aims of the club and bring in new potential members.








The club is: .... The Freemasons ;)

Irony [:o)]

[HOS]

Catch ya later Gitsy, its midday yesterday here in the UK. :D
I`m off into town to take the piss out the freak show... [:p]

[Gixxer_rat85]

Hmmm, I rest my case....coulda been any `outlaw` bike club, or street gang etc. But no, it was a reveered and upstanding organisation. Like I said, we`re ALL in a lot of trouble. Nice one, HOS

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by Gixxer_rat85

Hmmm, I rest my case....coulda been any `outlaw` bike club, or street gang etc. But no, it was a reveered and upstanding organisation. Like I said, we`re ALL in a lot of trouble. Nice one, HOS


Pardon?

Clubs themselves aren't the issue here, it is the illegal activities that these clubs are involved in.
I failed to see any such activities stated by HOS relating to the Freemasons, so his point is vague and irrelevant at best and not even close to ironic.

[sharky]

Wonder how many ASF member do things that are 'naughty' ??? thus all of us inc you CC are guilty by association.......

[Cruisecontrol]

Has ASF been declared a criminal organisation?

[sharky]

Not yet...but then again it was only today that the NSW police applied to have the HA declared so who knows...

[sickboy]

Shit ,for a second I thought you were talking about Amway.[:o)]
quote:Originally posted by HOS

Quiz for ya ;):D

Which club does this describe?

Has a very tough initiation ceremony.
Once you`re in you`re in for life, unless kicked out in disgrace or dead.
Has its own heirarchy of ranks and officers.
Has very few if any female members.
Has its own signs for club members and its own language.
Has its own club houses with admission for members or their guests only.
Club regalia must be worn in the club house/meetings.
You take into your home and shelter other club members when asked to.
What is discussed in the clubhouse stays there.
The club runs annual events raising thousands of pounds for worthy charities.
Total loyalty to the club is moot.
You further the aims of the club and bring in new potential members.








The club is: .... The Freemasons ;)

Irony [:o)]

[fimpBIKES]

didnt this exaxt same thing try to get put through last year
and the cops declared WAR on all outlaw gangs

i guess it wasnt much of a war and they are trying for round 2 now?



ps- who the fuck would want to be a member of a golf club?

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by Gixxer_rat85

Hmmm, I rest my case....coulda been any `outlaw` bike club, or street gang etc. But no, it was a reveered and upstanding organisation. Like I said, we`re ALL in a lot of trouble. Nice one, HOS


Pardon?

Clubs themselves aren't the issue here, it is the illegal activities that these clubs are involved in.
I failed to see any such activities stated by HOS relating to the Freemasons, so his point is vague and irrelevant at best and not even close to ironic.


Read up on P2 Masons if you believe they are all good, decent God fearing boys ? :D

Thats one branch of the global elite club.

[El_Hefty]

quote:Originally posted by fimpBIKES

didnt this exaxt same thing try to get put through last year
and the cops declared WAR on all outlaw gangs

i guess it wasnt much of a war and they are trying for round 2 now?



ps- who the fuck would want to be a member of a golf club?


i reckon this is a trick question but my answer would be - 'A Golfer?' am i right fimpy


As for the rest of the thread...

http://www.mcnews.com.au/NewsArchives/2005/ulysses_rebels.htm

Yeah they are just a bunch of guys that get together and ride.... its so obvious i dont know why the police dont see it

[NoZ]

Good point about the freemasons... they got driven underground cos they were persecuted too. So many groups if they don't fit in to the norm are treated like this. You try being pagan over here without predujuice or people think you're a devil worshipper. Am I fuck. And no I don't prance about neked or in silly dresses like some of them fluffy bastards lol

Point is that if they nail this criminal label on HA or any other biker club, then we are on a slippery road down to hell. I saw a program on another longer standing Oz bike club and they were formed from kids in care in the 60's who'd been abused.. it's no wonder they live a different lifestyle.. and it's not I'd want for myself but they have this strange honour for their brotherhood. This attitude to the 'family' is prevailant in most bike clubs like this.

It's not just HA what about Outlaws and other MC's? I think the police have been watching to much Sons of Anachy. In that show (and yeah I watch it purely for entertainment and not factual shit) they take off their patch when they don't want to be identified. SO what is a law going to do to stop people engaged in crime? It was illegal to do these things before and guess what, it didn't mean shit to them then. Just like I know it's a crime to go over the speed limit - I still do it. I'm no angel but I'm a scumbag either cos I break certain laws.

I've read enough biographies from coppers who've gone undercover to see that the police don't have a scooby what's going on or how to stop it. If they really want to piss clubs like the HA off, then legalise it... wonder if that would take the shine off it lol

I met a few chapters at Avebury when they passed over Gerry and another fallen member a couple of years ago. None of the fluffys felt intimidated by a hundred patched up Hells Angels saying goodbye to their fallen friends and they behaved themselves afterwards too. They are just people in a club at the end of the day. If they can't wear a badge then no other group should be able to either - it tells the world who they are. That deal in the airport was fucked up... I can see why the police want to stomp on that but I bet the top brass in the HA did that for them.

[Redmohawk]

I prance around naked what wrong with that? But I don't bother with silly dresses

[HOS]

The NWO does not want people to have an identity or be in groups because that gives them strength.

This mixing up of people all over the world is to de-nationalise them, rob them of their identity, rob them of their sense of national pride, rob them of their strength.

Thats what the NWO is about, taking away peoples strength anyway they can. Using the nanny state, control, lies, spin and propoganda.

Man is tribal by nature. [:p] Everything revolves around tribal culture.
Taking that away means they take away that feeling of identity, the strength of the tribe.

We all even subconsciously belong to, or aspire to belong to a particular tribe or several tribes.

Which tribes do you belong to ?

Aussie ?
Brit ?
Ruskie ?
Football fan?
Rocker?
Mod?
Skinhead?
Goth?
Biker?
Bike clubs?
Hippie?
Religionist?
Punk?
Man?
Woman?
Not sure?
etc...

Its all tribal mate ;)

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Redmohawk

I prance around naked what wrong with that? But I don't bother with silly dresses


Yes but not in the shopping mal ? [:o)]

[336LJ]

fuck sake.. all this posting from you lot. who's manning the pill press!!!! These Vietnamese pricks keep ringing me and ringing me about the next shipment....and they paid with paypal so if we aren't careful they will get a considerable portion of their money back and paypal won't let us buy legitimate stolen bike parts from genuine fake businesses anymore.

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by sickboy

Shit ,for a second I thought you were talking about Amway.[:o)]
quote:Originally posted by HOS

Quiz for ya ;):D

Which club does this describe?

Has a very tough initiation ceremony.
Once you`re in you`re in for life, unless kicked out in disgrace or dead.
Has its own heirarchy of ranks and officers.
Has very few if any female members.
Has its own signs for club members and its own language.
Has its own club houses with admission for members or their guests only.
Club regalia must be worn in the club house/meetings.
You take into your home and shelter other club members when asked to.
What is discussed in the clubhouse stays there.
The club runs annual events raising thousands of pounds for worthy charities.
Total loyalty to the club is moot.
You further the aims of the club and bring in new potential members.








The club is: .... The Freemasons ;)

Irony [:o)]



They go under the name IBS now I think :D

[Gitzy]

quote:Originally posted by fimpBIKES


ps- who the fuck would want to be a member of a golf club?


Der Fimp, GOPHERS..

http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1278595211.jpg

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by sharky

Not yet...but then again it was only today that the NSW police applied to have the HA declared so who knows...




I can see it now:

Lawyer - Yes your Honour we have two clubs we would like to outlaw today;
The first is the Hells Angels. Amongst other things they beat a man to death with a steel pole in front of hundreds of witnesses all of which was a result of their well organised drug trade.

Secondly we have an internet forum.
This one guy did a wheelie and we have it on good authority that another of these dastardly individuals does not have adequate distance between his indicators and headlight.

Judge - Get the fuck out of my court room.

[336LJ]

^ i bet if you mentioned we attend regular keyboard warrior combat and technical training seminars, they would throw the book at us..

[NoZ]

lol

[Fight_fan]

From what I'v read it seems that the "A few bad apples" theory makes a lot of people try & justify these criminal activities, when more to the point its the club as a whole that is in fact THE bad apple! I grew up around the local rebs in my town, my best mates dad was sargent in arms for the majority of our school years. He was one of the nicest blokes I'v ever met, still a bad arse tho! And that went for all the members that I'v met over the years. Im still mates with some of them, but they are not in any way shape or form law abiding citizens! The club as a whole is the way it is because that is their way of life, & if you want to be a part of that u must live like they do too! I dnt buy it that only a couple of em to naughty stuff, thats bollox! They are a business & they all have their jobs!
Im indifferent to whether or not the HA's get outlawed, im not one so it doesnt affect my life. If those laws come to have further reaching consequences (ie ASF) then u bet I will have something to say but I dnt believe it will come to that. Mainly due to the fact that ASF is not a criminal organisation! Our members having criminal records are irrelevant! And this is the issue I believe, its not "a few bad apples" its an organised crime racket that the cops are tryin to crack dwn on! Will it help? Probably not, but I think calling our civil rights into it is a bit much...
Just my 2c tho...

[Neo Dutch]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


Pardon?

Clubs themselves aren't the issue here, it is the illegal activities that these clubs are involved in.
I failed to see any such activities stated by HOS relating to the Freemasons, so his point is vague and irrelevant at best and not even close to ironic.


Thomas Hamilton (Dunblane murderer) and the local Top Cop were both Freemasons. Many concerns raised by the townsfolk about Hamiltons kiddy fiddling activities, and the fact that he owned several pistols that he liked to show off to the local youths were continuously ignored. Maybe the cops were too lazy to do their jobs, maybe they were corrupt, maybe they were disinclined to believe that another Wor Bro could do anything wrong.

[Elapid]

quote:Originally posted by Redmohawk

But I don't bother with silly dresses


Bullshit, we've heard the rumours[xx(].

[jimhmr]

'THE BRONZE, TAKE OUR PRIDE' but NOT OUR BALLS..!

[Redmohawk]

Nope all mine are real nice ;)

[fimpBIKES]

you always hear this "oh i know BLAH BLAH BLAH, he is the nicest bloke ever and loves puppies" sort of stuff
im not buying it

i live near a clubhouse now and sometimes when i go to the nightclub they are all there
i leave

want nothing to do with them or their rules

[el sammo]

hmm my only experiences with the HAs have been working for them and have all been very positive, always invited to there clubhouse to have drinks and found them to be a nice bunch of guys, never had a single issue with obtaining payment from them based on verbal agreement.

i like that there organised enough to have there own culture, ive never experienced anything bad from them at all most promoters i work for are far worse haha

[el sammo]

also to some of the ASF people who look at "harley gangs" as bad criminals, thats exactly what joe public considers you to be on youre matt black GSXR haha

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by el sammo

ive never experienced anything bad from them at all


That is because you are not a competing drug dealer, nor do you wear a patch from a rival "group of friendly bike riders"

[Redmohawk]

Well thats not an issue really is it Jacktar? If there only clobbering other dealers and patch club bikers were all in the clear, it is rare I would bet that they ever bother anyone from "normal society" asside of making them feel uncomfortable maybe (mostly due to societys normaisation views).

I figure someone is going to do it might as well be them, happy let em be and make a profit from the retards that buy they wares. Just as long as there little wars don't get to out of hand and spill into "Friendly society" , at least the majority of the time they prefer to keep things "In house" when dealing with squables to avoid extra police attention.

[Jup]

And why do you think they want to avoid "police attention"? Must be those pesky BBqs they have for kids hey?

[sharky]

'Ooo their all drug dealers' .....
Yeah ? Well who on here has ever done illegal drugs ???
Where do they come from ?.....Dealers....