Criminalised ?

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by sharky

Yeah ? Well who on here has ever done illegal drugs ???



Not I McFly so allow me to cast the first stone.

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by sharky

'Ooo their all drug dealers' .....
Yeah ? Well who on here has ever done illegal drugs ???
Where do they come from ?.....Dealers....



Personally, when I procure my illicit drugs I ensure that the dealers are reputable. I would never buy an illegal substance from people that live by an ethos that completely contradicts my own.
Much like how I insist my coffee is 100% organic and harvested from a sustainable ecosystem, I also ensure that my dealers are fine, upstanding members of the community that donate a certain percentage of their profits back into to the local community...

[JackTar]

What like the Ulysses? :)

[Redmohawk]

All the Ulyssians I know are dope smokers and to lazy to deal haha

[sharky]

I think this is getting waay off topic...
the main issue I see is that the authorities are rushing through laws that MAY be used against anyone....
Lets put aside the good bikie/bad bikie whingeing for a minute...

[Jup]

Fair call Sharky, let's get back on topic:

"The Hells Angels are possibly going to be declared a criminal organisation because their reason for existing is to engage in criminal activity"

Is this the basic story that the police are putting out there?

What does "1%er" mean, and what are its origins?

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by Jup

Fair call Sharky, let's get back on topic:



Fuck that shit, boring cunts.

[Cruisecontrol]

The crux of the issue is bad bikies. How is that off topic?

[sharky]

quote:What does "1%er" mean, and what are its origins?
It was originally meant as an insult to the clubs by the AMA when they decleared that 99% of the american bike clubs were good....Unfortunately for them the MC's liked it and thus became the 1%

[HOS]

Calling someone a 99er was an insult many years ago.

99% flock / 1% wolves.

Too much flock in the way, more so nowadays :D

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by sharky

I think this is getting waay off topic...
the main issue I see is that the authorities are rushing through laws that MAY be used against anyone....
Lets put aside the good bikie/bad bikie whingeing for a minute...




Spot on !

WE have boat loads of new generic laws in the UK they can bust you for anything using 1/2 a dozen different "one size fits all" laws.

You are right about how these things develop and there is a plan to them.

What they cannot bring in through direct action they will slime in under the back door over a longer period of time.

Its a filthy socialist cowards way of politics called "Evolution not Revolution"

[NoZ]

Glad someone mentioned Hollie Grieg - google it. Will make you want to go out and hack someone up.

I smoke puff... I got to get it somewhere... someone has to grow/smuggle and sell it. It it was legalised........ takes a lot of crims out of the equasion.

1% is the percentage of people who aren't the norm, living to the rules - an outlaw club. Also a Aussie footie according to wiki :D

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by NoZ

Glad someone mentioned Hollie Grieg - google it. Will make you want to go out and hack someone up.

I smoke puff... I got to get it somewhere... someone has to grow/smuggle and sell it. It it was legalised........ takes a lot of crims out of the equasion.

1% is the percentage of people who aren't the norm, living to the rules - an outlaw club. Also a Aussie footie according to wiki :D


Hey NoZ,

How you doing ? :)

Yeah bad stuff with Hollie.[xx(] Did you check out the pienmashfilms website?

[Surt]

seen ur mentioning 'ruskie tribe' taken it as an invitition to the dispute ;) well my thought is we r all criminalised cept cruise naturally we all disregard the law as the law disregards us we dont like to pay taxes - we all know where they go to and its a crime we like dope we luv underaged girls - they grow up on fast food real fast [8D] anyone would kill to revenge for ones own - those all r felony now, so stop pretendin' we r innocent sheep if u'v got guts enough to im doing lots of illegal things cos i just dont give a fuck about the law or authorities just being precaucious not to be caught those who claim to be "loyal god fearing citizens" r real pervert bastards, child molestrators, corruptionists they r the real criminals we r just angels beside them

[Surt]

concerning the bikie clubs i feel the same with them 'bout the law im just of any club cos i deadly hate any hierarchy unless im on the top [8D]

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Surt

seen ur mentioning 'ruskie tribe' taken it as an invitition to the dispute ;) well my thought is we r all criminalised cept cruise naturally we all disregard the law as the law disregards us we dont like to pay taxes - we all know where they go to and its a crime we like dope we luv underaged girls - they grow up on fast food real fast [8D] anyone would kill to revenge for ones own - those all r felony now, so stop pretendin' we r innocent sheep if u'v got guts enough to im doing lots of illegal things cos i just dont give a fuck about the law or authorities just being precaucious not to be caught those who claim to be "loyal god fearing citizens" r real pervert bastards, child molestrators, corruptionists they r the real criminals we r just angels beside them


Hoped you`d pop in ;)

Fair comments.

I will not be told in infinite minor detail what to do or not do by some self-appointed fuckers in charge who are about decent as my arse after a Chicken Phall.

Its hard not to break the law with so many of em. Best to just genrally disregard them as many do.

[NoZ]

Just one pecking order for another.. fuck that. My mate's dreaming of being a patch.. told him it's not SOA lol... don't see the appeal but if that's what he wants to do, then fairy muff

[el sammo]

definetly an interesting topic anyhow, reminds me why i enjoy living away from australia so much sometimes haahaa the simple joy of riding my unroadworthy/unregoed motorcycle without a license while baked on drugs/alcohol and not wearing appropriate safety gear hackin wheelies and gettin loose with no law enforced consequences is something i dont think i can leave anytime soon :) LOL

i think australia is getting way too over regulated/policed in my opinion.

more and more of my riding mates are getting kicked out of carparks for stunting so have no option but to not have plates and take it to the streets, not ideal but its happening more and more. police are enforcing the law without proper consideration, it pisses me off.

off topic but thats my rant over haha

[Gixxer_rat85]

For those who are interested, here is the link detailing the `new law`...if you can`t be assed reading it all, skip to section 35. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/saoca2008352/

I don`t do drugs (anymore hehehe), nor do I engage in any illegal activity aside from the occasional traffic offence.
I am in violation of the law because some of my associates and family members HAPPEN to be either members of so-called `outlaw` organisations or engage in illegal activity.
So i have some funky friends....LOCK ME UP!

They are starting with HA because the mainstream identify them as bad asses, therefore don`t care what happens to them. They are an easy mark...but the way the law is written anyone and almost everyone could be next.
Agree with this fascist bullshit at your own peril folks

[Redmohawk]

Hmmm interesting reading , so if I go to a pub regualy and play a game of pool with a HA (knowingly or not) or other club deemed to be "bad men" by the sphinkter police a few times a week over a few months and they see us talking I'm commiting an offence with the penalty of 5 years imprisonment ! Got to love BULLSHIT laws lol I feel so much better now that this law is being pushed into place, safer already. haha

[Arron_01r1]

hey guys, my father is the wa spokes person for the umca, may have seen heard his speaches on the news, if anyone from here has any questions about it all, pm/email me and i will forward his email to you, this is one big fark up and we need to fight it together, jap crap or not, there is a schit load more to it than that, what ever state ur in get to one of the rallies and show ur support against this 'law'

[Hagarr]

quote:The NWO does not want people to have an identity or be in groups because that gives them strength.

This mixing up of people all over the world is to de-nationalise them, rob them of their identity, rob them of their sense of national pride, rob them of their strength.

Thats what the NWO is about, taking away peoples strength anyway they can. Using the nanny state, control, lies, spin and propoganda.

Man is tribal by nature. Everything revolves around tribal culture.
Taking that away means they take away that feeling of identity, the strength of the tribe.

We all even subconsciously belong to, or aspire to belong to a particular tribe or several tribes.

Which tribes do you belong to ?

Aussie ?
Brit ?
Ruskie ?
Football fan?
Rocker?
Mod?
Skinhead?
Goth?
Biker?
Bike clubs?
Hippie?
Religionist?
Punk?
Man?
Woman?
Not sure?
etc...

Its all tribal mate

The Iraq war was supposodely fought over WMD but ultimately I believe another point was to ensure the Arab "tribes" never join together with a common cause.

Arab fighting Arab, world is a, relatively, peaceful place.

Yeah we lose a "Couple" of our boys but all in the name of keeping the tribes fighting.

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Gixxer_rat85

For those who are interested, here is the link detailing the `new law`...if you can`t be assed reading it all, skip to section 35. http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/sa/consol_act/saoca2008352/

I don`t do drugs (anymore hehehe), nor do I engage in any illegal activity aside from the occasional traffic offence.
I am in violation of the law because some of my associates and family members HAPPEN to be either members of so-called `outlaw` organisations or engage in illegal activity.
So i have some funky friends....LOCK ME UP!

They are starting with HA because the mainstream identify them as bad asses, therefore don`t care what happens to them. They are an easy mark...but the way the law is written anyone and almost everyone could be next.
Agree with this fascist bullshit at your own peril folks


I just read section 35.
That some draconian shit there !!

Reading from that document if anyone apart from "close family" associates with a club member on 6 occassions within a 12 month period they are commiting a criminal act, subject to a max term of 5 years inside.
Again reading from that document, "associating" means any Email, phone call or letter. Would attending the club house by non-members be included in that term "association" ?

From what I read in there, members of close family does not include sons and daughters? Or did I miss something ?

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by Hagarr


quote:The NWO does not want people to have an identity or be in groups because that gives them strength.

This mixing up of people all over the world is to de-nationalise them, rob them of their identity, rob them of their sense of national pride, rob them of their strength.

Thats what the NWO is about, taking away peoples strength anyway they can. Using the nanny state, control, lies, spin and propoganda.

Man is tribal by nature. Everything revolves around tribal culture.
Taking that away means they take away that feeling of identity, the strength of the tribe.

We all even subconsciously belong to, or aspire to belong to a particular tribe or several tribes.

Which tribes do you belong to ?

Aussie ?
Brit ?
Ruskie ?
Football fan?
Rocker?
Mod?
Skinhead?
Goth?
Biker?
Bike clubs?
Hippie?
Religionist?
Punk?
Man?
Woman?
Not sure?
etc...

Its all tribal mate

The Iraq war was supposodely fought over WMD but ultimately I believe another point was to ensure the Arab "tribes" never join together with a common cause.

Arab fighting Arab, world is a, relatively, peaceful place.

Yeah we lose a "Couple" of our boys but all in the name of keeping the tribes fighting.


You're a bit loose with that 'couple' word mate, 17 so far.

[NoZ]

simular to the Criminal Justice Act then?

[Gixxer_rat85]

Cool shit aint it? I particularly like section 35, subsection 9........ (9) For the avoidance of doubt, in proceedings for an offence against this section, it is not necessary for the prosecution to prove that the defendant associated with another person for any particular purpose or that the association would have led to the commission of any offence.

Nice work! Fuckers don`t even have to PROVE that you even associated with anyone at all.

[Cruisecontrol]

Read the whole sentence.

"it is not necessary for the prosecution to prove that the defendant associated with another person for any particular purpose..."

[Redmohawk]

Gixer they still have to prove you associated with said "nominated criminal" but they don't have to prove why or that it was to comit a crime just that you associated with them is an offence . Fucked, you can travel to Iran talk to who ever you like there and come home all's fine(assuming you make it back lol) , but talk to a HA in a pub a few times and your breaking the law. (If it passes)

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by Redmohawk

Fucked, you can travel to Iran talk to who ever you like there and come home all's fine(assuming you make it back lol)


I reckon David Hicks would argue that one.

[sharky]

Yeah, he just mistook a terrorist training camp for the trailer park....

[JackTar]

Yep sorry Dan I'm with Sharky on this one, pretty confident David Hicks was doing a bit more than talking.

[Cruisecontrol]

I don't doubt it for a second. Nor do I doubt that if you visit a dodgy country you instantly become a "person of interest" to ASIO.

[Jup]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

I don't doubt it for a second. Nor do I doubt that if you visit a dodgy country you instantly become a "person of interest" to ASIO.


Do you mean to say that it's perfectly reasonable to become a person of interest to the authorities if you're observed knowingly associating with a group of people well known to engage in criminal activity?! [:0]

[Hagarr]

quote:Do you mean to say that it's perfectly reasonable to become a person of interest to the authorities if you're observed knowingly associating with a group of people well known to engage in criminal activity?!

That's the way I see it!

[NoZ]

whether it's legal or not, you will still be tarred with a brush if you have association with anyone who is seen as a bit dodgy. I had it written up in my probationary at work that i was associated with a known criminal... she'd done time for killing her boyfriend in self defence. I didn't kill him and I wasn't even hanging about with her for about 10 years when she was off the rails - didn't stop me getting shit for it. Life ain't fair. Told them at the time I didn't care what they thought, that she was a rehabilitated memember of society and why were they persecuting ME for something she did?

The law has loads of hidden loopholes like section (9).... sneaky fucks put them in there for exactly those reasons.

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by Jup


Do you mean to say that it's perfectly reasonable to become a person of interest to the authorities if you're observed knowingly associating with a group of people well known to engage in criminal activity?! [:0]


Crazy, isn't it?

And what's crazier is that people seem to think that this is a new thing...

[papa smurf]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by Jup


Do you mean to say that it's perfectly reasonable to become a person of interest to the authorities if you're observed knowingly associating with a group of people well known to engage in criminal activity?! [:0]


Crazy, isn't it?

And what's crazier is that people seem to think that this is a new thing...


Yep, Cruise is right, it's been going on forever.
I remember back in the 60's NSW had athing called the "consorting squad".
I know this because my ENTIRE family was under their watch as my old man in their opinion "consorted" with "known" criminals.
He was a bloody services club manager for fuck sake & a heap of them drank there.
Funny thing was so did most of the local plod.
(Us kids even used to get followed to & from school sometimes, the fuckers were so bad at it that even us primary school kids could pick them.LOL)

So Yeah, it's nothing new really just a beefed up, fucked up version of shit that's been happening for decades.[}:)]

[Weaselman]

Patch or not lets all pick on the 2 wheeled minority. We have always been an easy target. Fucked if i'll stand for it though.

[sharky]

Now signed up member of UMC.
When it hits the fan at least I will know I didnt sit around pretending it would never happen.

[HOS]

With regards to "association" or proof of "association" its important to remember the authorities have the technology
to monitor all phone calls and txts in or out and also who phones who.

So if anyone phones or texts, or even say has a certain phone number on their phone, this can be easily tracked and monitored.

Trust me on this : landlines and mobile phones are easily monitored, even if not registered to any name !

[NoZ]

but they have to apply to do that HOS. They have to prove valid justification to get permission from the Head of the Unit to do that... still happens a lot. They also have access to your financial records to see if you're living beyond your means, in the UK, they can have that off you and sell it off to add funds to the police budget. POCO I think it's called.

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by NoZ

but they have to apply to do that HOS. They have to prove valid justification to get permission from the Head of the Unit to do that... still happens a lot. They also have access to your financial records to see if you're living beyond your means, in the UK, they can have that off you and sell it off to add funds to the police budget. POCO I think it's called.


Fair comment NoZ.

I would imagine if the police or whatever agency claimed to have "reasonable suspicion" a person or persons are criminal, it wouldnt be too hard to get a judge to accept ?

The UK phone companies now keep records of all phone calls, texts and Emails for 2 years anyway. Came in last year. Bit I`m not sure if the phone companies keep record of the content though or wether thats still down to the main surveillance shit at GCHQ.

[NoZ]

I know for a fact that Herts CID pay out about £1500 a month to Experian and other credit agencies for using it to search crims finances and a bit less for the phone companies for access to the phone records. Still a bunch of cunts though.

[HOS]

NoZ, this database malarky and people being tracked electronically is why I have gone shit or bust to stay off the system in the last 20 years.

One simple cash card and simple bank account. No other cards. I spend in cash 99.9% of the time. No discount cards, no loyalty cards. I do`nt give my address in shops, I do`nt fill in surveys, I operate the postal preference service. I just don`t give away my data.

I will never sign up to Facebook or any chat rooms. Why the fook people want to post up everyfuckingdetail about themselves and their families/ancestors etc online I do not know.

Keeping your head down is good, stay off the system. Plenty of our mates have the same policy.

If anyone wants to see how much they exist in dataland ?.... google your full name and see some of where you feature? But google will only give you some, not all and not the hiddden data on you.

[Elapid]

quote:Originally posted by HOS

If anyone wants to see how much they exist in dataland ?.... google your full name and see some of where you feature? But google will only give you some, not all and not the hiddden data on you.


I just did. Got nothing. Quite disappointed now.

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by HOS



Keeping your head down is good, stay off the system.


To what end?

I give my info away freely and so far I have had no problems with cops or aliens.

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by HOS



Keeping your head down is good, stay off the system.


To what end?

I give my info away freely and so far I have had no problems with cops or aliens.



Same here, well with cops at least.

[Elapid]

The Aliens probed you again didn't they Blowie?

[JackTar]

I don't like to talk about it.

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by HOS



Keeping your head down is good, stay off the system.


To what end?

I give my info away freely and so far I have had no problems with cops or aliens.



Good for you ! :D

[papa smurf]

quote:Originally posted by sharky

Now signed up member of UMC.
When it hits the fan at least I will know I didnt sit around pretending it would never happen.



Yep, me too.

[HOS]

For anyone who maybe a little niaive about data and data gatherers.

After the recent global crisis whereby Google Streetview had been caught taking ordinary peoples data from their un-encrypted home PC networks and stealing passwords too.
Google is still refusing to confirm how much data it took all "by accident" apparently.

Following on from that situation, on the news stands today we see that Google is working closely with the CIA and NSA. Google is entitled to pass all our personal data to the CIA and NSA under US law.

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/CIA_creates_miniGoogle_0331.html

" Questioned by CNET earlier this year, both Google and Microsoft declined to say if they have provided their users private data to federal authorities under the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act -- President Bush's warrantless wiretapping program. In general email and Internet data are not subject to the same privacy rules that wire, telephone and radio transmissions are."

Would you trust the CIA and NSA hu ? and whoever else they have passed your personal data onto ?

As I said, its time for the blindfolds to come off.
Since when could we ever trust the military/industrial complex ?

So stay off the system and don`t post infinite personal details online. ;)

[HOS]

Its a matter of being intelligent and streetwise.
Thats what its all about.

Being streetwise applies to the internet and surveillance technology too.

I know some people are`nt up to speed on this, but at least think about it ;)

We are all heavily spied upon, most of which people dont get to hear about or can`t be bothered to find out about.
But once the big boy`s are under control it`ll be the little guy next. ;)

Its not some kind of boys game, we are talking major technological control systems applied to all of us under nitpicking generic laws.

We are all living in the past and the game is way ahead of us already !

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by HOS


So stay off the system and don`t post infinite personal details online.



Why?

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by HOS


So stay off the system and don`t post infinite personal details online.



Why?



Don't encourage him.

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by HOS


So stay off the system and don`t post infinite personal details online.



Why?



Because right now in some government surveillance centre anywhere in the world, someone is monitoring you, your wife, your children,other close members of your family, or any friends of yours, friends anywhere in the world who you might not know in person but you "communicate via Email" with say?

And if you or any of those people are "unknowingly" "associating" with a criminal or a terrorist, or a suspected criminal or suspected terrorist, who is about to be arrested or charged under these new laws..... then you are fucked my mate !

Thats the basic level of joined up thinking everyone should be doing. But while no fucker thinks on any level these law makers have got you by the balls.

Simple thinking my mate ;)

:)

[HOS]

In the UK thanks to "the war on terror" we have legal internment.

You know what interment means don`t you ? and how its works ?

You know the likes of the CIA and MI6 snatch people off the streets anywhere in the world, take them to countries where they can be tortured into confessions ? It happens !

We all need to think a lot harder about our own personal security and the security of our loved ones.

That means being very careful about what you communicate as well as who you communicate with.

[Redmohawk]

Hos the reality is you will have to be involved in some major shit before "They" come bust down your door eather physically or electronicaly , why bother some conspracy theorist ? Even if you run a large company of some particular importance "They" still need a desire/reason to poke about (surely you don't think its all for fun) There would be far more interesting people to bother with really. Would you like me to attract some interest here? Easy sorry guys we will now have the site probed in infinite detail!

All because i post this statment

" What would happen if We created anarky by Killing the president of the united states of america! "

This statment will highlight the ASF website to several key groups and we will be probed !

Hos want some real funny linking "they" and the other "Grey they's (that love a good anal prob)" In about the early 80's a bunch of techno wankers in silicon valley designed and built a microproccesor that had the express design of being able to monitor 1 million channels of a radio at the same time to look for aliens via radio astronamy, Yeah SETTI funny thing was they pumped out heaps of these great chips seems they can monitor telephone lines just as well lol so we have had the capabilty of monitoring every electroinic audio transmission on the planet electroinicly at the same time since say 1985 , Mates of mine expressly say they want to kill X Y or Z politician special person during phone calls at random specifically to get onto the monitoring system.

ITS ALL A BIG FUCKING JOKE MATE ! IF YOUR NOT A TERRORIST OR A PERSON THAT NEEDS TO BE WORRIED BECAUSE YOUR FUCKING UP YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY SO MUCH!

If your really worried there are heaps of gypsy's etc places to drop of the system compleatly , no tax cash everything etc etc but why bother ?

[JackTar]

quote:Originally posted by HOS


quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by HOS


So stay off the system and don`t post infinite personal details online.



Why?



Because right now in some government surveillance centre anywhere in the world, someone is monitoring you, your wife, your children,other close members of your family, or any friends of yours, friends anywhere in the world who you might not know in person but you "communicate via Email" with say?




This is happening to everyone in the world? Fuck me "they" must be very very busy.

[Elapid]

I think(shit, that hurt) there is one "they" for every one of "us".....

[thejester650]

quote:government surveillance centre anywhere in the world, someone is monitoring you, your wife, your children,other close members of your family, or any friends of yours, friends anywhere in the world

I completely agree with HOS, The Monitoring system is called 'Echelon' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_%28signals_intelligence%29every email, phone call, text message, and search on a search engine runs through this system. its programmed with keywords like Bomb, terrorist, osama, cocaine,etc then given for analysis to see how much of a threat is presented and if its legitamate. Big Brother eat your heart out!!!

[Large]

I wouldn't worry tooo much-

http://www.smh.com.au/world/blinded-by-information-overload-20100719-10i02.html

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by HOS


Because right now in some government surveillance centre anywhere in the world, someone is monitoring you, your wife, your children,other close members of your family, or any friends of yours, friends anywhere in the world who you might not know in person but you "communicate via Email" with say?



The government already knows my address, wife, children etc from simple things like drivers licences, birth and marriage certificates.

Nothing I post on any site anywhere will ever be new or interesting to my government because they either have it already or it is so bloody boring that it is not worth monitoring in the first place...

Paranoia sure is a powerful emotion.

[scotty mac]

may be off subject but i was at a meet on the weekend(nq dirt drags) with odin's, coffin cheaters n rebels. i was on a jap bike n had me ASF shirt on. was havin a laugh n yahoo'n with the lads and not 1 had a dig at me.
jus my 2cent's

[Jup]

Unless you gave a fake name and address to your ISP, you're on the system.

You want to be invisible? Go live with the Amish.

[Redmohawk]

Scotty that because they all know we're internet hero's lol

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by thejester650


quote:government surveillance centre anywhere in the world, someone is monitoring you, your wife, your children,other close members of your family, or any friends of yours, friends anywhere in the world

I completely agree with HOS, The Monitoring system is called 'Echelon' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Echelon_%28signals_intelligence%29every email, phone call, text message, and search on a search engine runs through this system. its programmed with keywords like Bomb, terrorist, osama, cocaine,etc then given for analysis to see how much of a threat is presented and if its legitamate. Big Brother eat your heart out!!!


Thank you, someone else with their eyes open.

Ironically it was an Aussie Member of Parliament who was one of the first to blow the whistle on Echelon years ago. Then accusations from the EU Parliament came to light whereby the US was allegedly using Echelon to gain the upper hand in international business deals for US private companies. This is well documented in the news media of the time.

There are plenty of pdf. doc`s on the EU website appertaining to Echelon and how it became an integral part of the EU global security network. You have to search hard because the EU website is massive !
Tony Blair is in one meeting talking about this. Now I do also believe that the EU has developed its own system of eavesdropping indeopendant from Echelon.

You can do a search for Echelon on the CIA website as I did years ago and it will tell you what they renamed it and see some facst about it. Maybe the CIA has removed references now? Searching the CIA website for shit like this is something you do`nt want to do often

Originally it was only run by the US and Britain. Yes we were spying on the whole of the EU for the US for many years while people bleated "conspiracy theory"

[HOS]

Echelon or whatever it is called now is one of the main tools they use in the war against terrorism.

Thats how they intercept Emails, phone calls and txts to see who is talking to who and what they are saying.

The "conspiracy theory" tag is used all too easily by them to discredit and mock.
Its a powerful phrase that enables them to do as they wish, confident in people picking up on that powerful tag. ;)

Echelon: conspiracy theory turned fact. [8D]

[HOS]

ITS ALL A BIG FUCKING JOKE MATE ! IF YOUR NOT A TERRORIST OR A PERSON THAT NEEDS TO BE WORRIED BECAUSE YOUR FUCKING UP YOU DONT HAVE TO WORRY SO MUCH!

If your really worried there are heaps of gypsy's etc places to drop of the system compleatly , no tax cash everything etc etc but why bother ?
[/quote]

Thats where you are completely wrong in the UK. People are arrested and given hell for photgraphing public buildings here. You can easily get a criminal record for photographing a tube station or railway station that will prevent you getting a job.

People are tracked here right now who have committed no crimes, but are deemed a threat to the state. Sometimes because they have uncovered corruption within the state.

You have no idea how the UK has become with hundreds of generic laws and means whereby you are on some database and marked for life in employment terms.

The UK DNA database has many innocent people who have been sampled often without knowing or having been told. But you cannot get your name off the DNA database through our government. There is no legal framework to have your DNA removed. After years of political campaigning by liberty groups they will remove your DNA if you are innocent of any crime but only after 6 years and as long as you commit no crime during that time..

I dont fear, I don`t give a shit what the people believe or don`t believe, I just stay off as many databases as possible, like many others. Why?... because I don`t trust no fucker in government.
We have seen almost daily how bent MPs are and not just here but in the EU.

People still think its all warm, lovely and safe in their hands.... yeah right lololol Nanny state does that shit to you !
Men become wimps and listen to the nice safe pc bullshit?

Being a "ghost" is such hard work in the UK but, but yeah some people do it. [8D] Good for them !!! I would if it wasnt almost impossible.

This is the UK and its why so many have fucked off and still are, to the tune of a 1/4 million Brits a year.

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by HOS


Because right now in some government surveillance centre anywhere in the world, someone is monitoring you, your wife, your children,other close members of your family, or any friends of yours, friends anywhere in the world who you might not know in person but you "communicate via Email" with say?



The government already knows my address, wife, children etc from simple things like drivers licences, birth and marriage certificates.

Nothing I post on any site anywhere will ever be new or interesting to my government because they either have it already or it is so bloody boring that it is not worth monitoring in the first place...

Paranoia sure is a powerful emotion.


I know your political spin while you ignore what I am saying.
You must be part of the system to 100% support it ?

I repeat:

" And if you or any of those people are "unknowingly" "associating" with a criminal or a terrorist, or a suspected criminal or suspected terrorist, who is about to be arrested or charged under these new laws..... then you are fucked my mate ! "

You would not know until someone kicked our door down that you or one of your family had been "associating" by communicating with a "criminal" as defined by this law.

Anyone in all innocence could be communicating with one of these "criminals" as defined in the new law we are discussing. Under that law you could be charged and your future careeer wrecked or much worse.

Its all part of the same package:
The state : criminality : laws : databases : electronic surveillance.

Guilty by association, despite it being in all innocence?

I can`t really get anymore simple in my explanation. This is really basic stuff. [xx(]

[JackTar]

Since when did basic equal gospel truth/fact?

[Redmohawk]

Hos you want me to think the 1.5 million people that visit London every year and take a photo of big ben etc are all now in danger of being profiled catorgarized and labeled as subversives to be monitored ? Bullshit mate, if they have my DNA (and they do because I had a firearms dealers licence and pistols) and I fuck up well I guess I'm in the shit , But then again I might even be smart enought to plant someone elses DNA lol The laws are crazy I agree but it will only get worse we are on the downward spiral to legislating for morons and looking at the world atm that is probably a good Idea lol. If your savy enough to realize this your savy enough to work with it .

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by HOS

This is really basic stuff. [xx(]


So is where to place an apostrophe, but you seem to struggle with that...

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Redmohawk

Hos you want me to think the 1.5 million people that visit London every year and take a photo of big ben etc are all now in danger of being profiled catorgarized and labeled as subversives to be monitored ? Bullshit mate, if they have my DNA (and they do because I had a firearms dealers licence and pistols) and I fuck up well I guess I'm in the shit , But then again I might even be smart enought to plant someone elses DNA lol The laws are crazy I agree but it will only get worse we are on the downward spiral to legislating for morons and looking at the world atm that is probably a good Idea lol. If your savy enough to realize this your savy enough to work with it .


You views not mine mate.
Does`nt bear any resembance to what I am saying or the situation in the UK.

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by HOS

This is really basic stuff. [xx(]


So is where to place an apostrophe, but you seem to struggle with that...




Same shit different post.

Come on fess up now ? Are you police, government? security agency ?
Or ex any of those ?

I profiled ya mate :D [:o)]

[HOS]

Redmohawk,

There have been cases where Architectural students in London who have been out in the city taking photographs of buildings of merit, to be arrested and charged with photographing public buildings and ending up with a criminal record under anti-terrorist laws.

You don`t live here so I appreciate its hard to believe. ;)

[HOS]

Article last year about UK loss of liberty and how its is illegal to photograph public buildings ie: government offices, police stations, train stations all under anti-terrorist laws:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/columnists/philipjohnston/4632459/Why-cant-we-take-pictures-of-policemen.html

Situation here now is that we cannot flim or photograph the police as its a criminal offence to do so.
If anyone filmed a policeman commiitng a crime it cannot be used in court against that officer.

If you come to the UK as a tourist you can be arrested and charged for photographing a public building when you might not even know it is one.

These shit laws are slimed in through the back door as they appear to be over there in Aus.

The issue is not conspiracy its about civil liberty chaps :)

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by HOS

Are you police, government? security agency ?
Or ex any of those ?

I profiled ya mate




Nope, nope, nope and nope.

Yeah, awesome profiling. You couldn't get it right if my occupation was written in my PROFILE. Oh, wait...

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by HOS

Are you police, government? security agency ?
Or ex any of those ?

I profiled ya mate




Nope, nope, nope and nope.

Yeah, awesome profiling. You couldn't get it right if my occupation was written in my PROFILE. Oh, wait...




So apart from shit stirring and personal abuse you have nothing of any intelligence or value to add to this dEbate on civil liberty.
Same as anyone else who works for the above.

Come on now ??? Fess up ?? [:p] :D

NO ONE CAN BE THAT NIAIVE ! You gotta be part of the system.

[Cruisecontrol]

It is not a debate you tool, it is just one of your typical rubbish threads.
You post nonsense, people rebuke the drivel with facts and reason, you ignore them and continue on with the baseless statements.

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

It is not a debate you tool, it is just one of your typical rubbish threads.
You post nonsense, people rebuke the drivel with facts and reason, you ignore them and continue on with the baseless statements.




Yeah yeah......... whatever.

Enough people have already responded in a positive way to this thread and considered the civil liberty issues at stake.
That is what the thread is about and yes we touched on some of the wider issues.

While people like you in Australia fail to think or consider the slow and systematic stripping away of your civil liberties, then the law makers will continue to slowly destroy your country.

Those governemnt people and law makers who seek to remove your civil liberty rely on people like you.

[sharky]

quote:You post nonsense, people rebuke the drivel with facts and reason, you ignore them and continue on with the baseless statements.

Whilst Dan of course NEVER says anything just to be different or wind people up...fuck me he'd say black was white to get a rise outta ya's

[Jup]

Yeah, and we posties are obviously incapable of contributing anything remotely intelligent... I should just die now and stop using up all your air then [V]

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by HOS



While people like you in Australia fail to think or consider the slow and systematic stripping away of your civil liberties, then the law makers will continue to slowly destroy your country.

Those governemnt people and law makers who seek to remove your civil liberty rely on people like you.


What civil liberties have I ever lost thanks to the government?

[thejester650]

quote:The issue is not conspiracy its about civil liberty chaps
i agree. the civil liberty of having your conversations, emails, and any other electronic communication private. what ever happened to privacy?? :D

[JackTar]

Nothing electronic has ever been private, a lot of celebrities and politicians have found that out the hard way.

[NoZ]

hell, even before it went digital, they got caught out.

[Redmohawk]

I think the problem is HOS thinks this is somehow new , And baging us all out for being complacent about it all is just a result of the fact he hasn't caught up with the rest of US here in Aus. As we all know down here in the backwards country that the illusion of freedom and our civil libertys as a whole have been far from accurate back to the 1900's, if you dont like it become a bum and enjoy your freedom! Otherwise do like all the other sheep and get on with it lol

[hooligan]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by HOS

Are you police, government? security agency ?
Or ex any of those ?

I profiled ya mate




Nope, nope, nope and nope.

Yeah, awesome profiling. You couldn't get it right if my occupation was written in my PROFILE. Oh, wait...




Don't lie now CC.
Ex military, now working for aus post (a GOVERNMENT AGENCY), you're probably keeping files on all of us, and using your postie powers for evil, instead of good.

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by hooligan


Don't lie now CC.
Ex military, now working for aus post (a GOVERNMENT AGENCY), you're probably keeping files on all of us, and using your postie powers for evil, instead of good.


Do government agencies have stockholders?
It is a common misconception that Post is owned and operated by the government.

[thejester650]

quote:Ex military, now working for aus post (a GOVERNMENT AGENCY), you're probably keeping files on all of us, and using your postie powers for evil, instead of good.


for some reason the movie men in black 2 comes to mind :)

[hooligan]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by hooligan


Don't lie now CC.
Ex military, now working for aus post (a GOVERNMENT AGENCY), you're probably keeping files on all of us, and using your postie powers for evil, instead of good.


Do government agencies have stockholders?
It is a common misconception that Post is owned and operated by the government.


How do we know it's a misconception? maybe it's a carefully constructed cover by "the man"? And don't even bother replying with facts and logic, 'cause that'll just get in the way.

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol
Do government agencies have stockholders?


yes

[Cruisecontrol]

quote:Originally posted by hooligan


How do we know it's a misconception? maybe it's a carefully constructed cover by "the man"? And don't even bother replying with facts and logic, 'cause that'll just get in the way.


Haha, they tend to do that.



quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31


quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol
Do government agencies have stockholders?


yes


Example?

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol


quote:Originally posted by hooligan


How do we know it's a misconception? maybe it's a carefully constructed cover by "the man"? And don't even bother replying with facts and logic, 'cause that'll just get in the way.


Haha, they tend to do that.



quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31


quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol



Do government agencies have stockholders?


yes


Example?


The government agency I used to work for (CSIRO) is registered with ASIC as a company, therefore it must have at least one shareholder.
Search the ASIC database and you will find plenty of government agencies registered as companies.

[Cruisecontrol]

How can it have shareholders when it is funded by the government?
Post is completely independent of the govt. Staff are paid via profits generated by the company and it pays its taxes on said profits like any other regular company.

[Gitzy]

And now for something completely different..

BOOBIES
http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1279859068.jpg


Ok please continue.. just thought this thread needed a quick booby break.. :D

[Tony OW31]

quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

How can it have shareholders when it is funded by the government?
Post is completely independent of the govt. Staff are paid via profits generated by the company and it pays its taxes on said profits like any other regular company.

I wouldn't have a clue how Australia post works, is it a government agency or a private company?,
I do know that CSIRO is a government agency that also pays employees etc from generated profits and is registered as a company, and as such it must have, by law, at least one registered shareholder, whether that shareholder is just a notary, or the shares are held by a holding company I do not know because a lot of information on Government agencies is withheld from public view.

[Jup]

Thanks Gitzy, that was both timely and called for ;)

[NoZ]

least weren't mine lol