The NEW Rotary Norton race bike

[Spondonash]

I do understand that as someone who has left their country for another it is usual to denegrate your original country as much as possible so as you know you have made the right decision. That seems normal.
My understanding was that the lowest rate of income tax was in fact 16 or 17% which would be what the average wage earner would pay, of course like here the more you earn the more you pay
It is also my understanding that you pay nothing like 10% of your wage for national insurance.
A good friend of mine recently went to work in London and he earned twice what he did in Brisbane and he reckoned virtually nothing cost anymore so he was very well off. He actually said it was an eye opener because of all the horror stories he had heard.
Just recently the media here made a big thing of the fact that Australian workers worked the longest hours of any OECD country. I don't know ANYONE who even approaches 60 odd hours a week or needs to work 2 jobs to make ends meet.
You both appeared to earn very low wages especially for Kent, when I worked in the UK fairly recently in an unskilled job I earned more than that and that was in the cheaper South West of the country.
Average people here can't afford a house, welcome to the real world.

[quote]Originally posted by frankenbiker

just to put things into perspective to live and work in the uk cost u 60%of ur net earnings
ave 1000 Quid per year in poll tax [for all residents over 18]bar a few exceptions
21-40%income tax
17.5% sales tax
10%of ur income goes to national ins
the housing market has been pushed thru the roof by developers particularly in the south east so that ordinary working class people cant afford to own their own home
examlpe 257000[$660000] quid for a two up two down in stratford east london
fuel at 1pound alitre hits everybody cos most of the stuff u buy travels by road
before i left ..18 months ago i was a manager for a mid sized plant hire company in Kent
my basic salary was 24000 per annummy wife was working 30miles from home in greenwich as a senior hair stylist at an up market salon she worked six days a week
her salary was basic 18000 per annum
our out goings were
rent 140 per week
we ran a 1990 bmw 1.8
60quid a week in petrol just for the wife to go to work [before u maention public transport it s 255 pounds a month for a rail card]
food bil was 100 quid a week
poll tax works out at approx 40 quid a week
by the time our bills were paid we were nigh on skint evry week
now ..i used to be a card carryin member of the socialist workers party and a unionist [youngest shop steward at Fords dagenham]
and i detested maggie thatcher
i still believe in a socialist solution to the world s ills ..but chalkies right the laft has gone crazy in the last ten years all the councils in the depressed areas of london for instance have been hijacked by minorities because of positve discrimination
so u get nutcase by-laws
i believe everyone has the right to decent living and working conditions and medical care these are basic needs ..but im fucked if im paying for some african to come to britian to have their baby on our nhs [my tax money ] and then sit on the dole ..
example ..my mate was selling his beloved 96 5 series beemer when

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

LOL. I never said anything about those REAL Brits being in this country, I am referring to friends in the UK.
FACT. More people left Australia permanently in 2006 than in any year previously. Why is that ? Don't get me wrong I like living here but I don't a warped view of this country being a Utopia.

quote:Originally posted by HOS

So all those "real" Brits you know in Australia bailed outta here for what reasons? And how long ago ? Your making me laugh now !!

A "xenphhobic racist".... thats a bit PC mate ?

Narrow view ? Err nope, I have an eyes wide open view. My eyes arent tinted with socialist red I just do`nt allow myself to be conditioned by the socialist indoctrination.... some Brits do though.
5 million of our best have allready gone and hundreds of thousands pouring outta here yearly, says enough about super smashing wonderful nicey socialist Britain.... but no no its lovely here... if you walk around with your eyes blinkered.... or closed. ....Mincing through the windswept concrete piatsa`s listening to Checkov... super [)]

You have friends ?????!!!!!!

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

I do understand that as someone who has left their country for another it is usual to denegrate your original country as much as possible so as you know you have made the right decision. That seems normal.
My understanding was that the lowest rate of income tax was in fact 16 or 17% which would be what the average wage earner would pay, of course like here the more you earn the more you pay
It is also my understanding that you pay nothing like 10% of your wage for national insurance.
A good friend of mine recently went to work in London and he earned twice what he did in Brisbane and he reckoned virtually nothing cost anymore so he was very well off. He actually said it was an eye opener because of all the horror stories he had heard.
Just recently the media here made a big thing of the fact that Australian workers worked the longest hours of any OECD country. I don't know ANYONE who even approaches 60 odd hours a week or needs to work 2 jobs to make ends meet.
You both appeared to earn very low wages especially for Kent, when I worked in the UK fairly recently in an unskilled job I earned more than that and that was in the cheaper South West of the country.
Average people here can't afford a house, welcome to the real world.

I`ve found most "city types" are well off the pace on reality mate.
London was ranked as the most expensive city in the world to live last year and its a toilet.
Cities are thE same the world over, people I know who have gone to Aus say the cities are not the place to live.
Everyone here is working themselves to death for average/poor wages and very high living costs. Employers expect free overtime and most have to do it just to keep their jobs.
The skills shortage here is dire and yet employers still treat staff like shit.
I have been an employer and an employee, run my own Ltd company and run my own offices and recruited my own staff. Too many people here are working themselves into and early grave because too few are working and too many freeloaders are taking too much out of the system.
Look at the figures again?

57 million resident UK population not including immigrants.
28 million of those are working.
Out of that 28 million workers a lot work part time hours.
A lot earn the minimum wage of around £5 an hour. A lot of those people are unskilled workers.
So only a small percentage of those 28 million workers work full time with basic or higher than average wages. That small percentage are killing themselves to pay for all the rest of the people living and not working and not contributing to the system.... the same people who take loads out of the system in benefits and medical care because of their lifestyle.
Disabled people here are being forced back to work by the government because they want more tax in the system to pay for those who just take and whats mnore those who have just come here and never paid into the system.
Thats how clueless, head in the clouds, uncaring, uneducated socialists operate, welcome to socialism and all its shitty dealings.

[Spondonash]

"Oslo, Norway topped the list of the most expensive, followed by Paris, Copenhagen, Denmark and London. Two Japanese cities broke into the top ten: Tokyo - which claimed the top spot in 2005 and came in second last year - at fifth and Osaka Kobe at sixth."
Not quite first but maybe it depends who you listen to. LOL.
"Everyone here is working themselves to death for average/poor wages " That statement is just absurd, it just isn't true. All my mates over there have a comfortable life and earn good money.
Australians are working amongst the longest if not THE longest hours in the OECD according to our media and a great many work unpaid overtime, the funny thing is the spin the media put on that was that Aussies are therefore the hardest workers in the world :-)
I just smile when I read all this because I think that could all be about this country, our beloved leader has recently introduced legislation that more or less removes any remaining rights workers had. Agree to the terms or take a walk. The next door neighbours son is a first year electrical apprentice and he told me he was earning $2.80 an hour. That's $2.80an hour. There is a minimum wage of something like $12.00 but this seemingly doesn't apply to apprentices.
This isn't a "who's country is better" sort of thing it's just that it seems as though this is the way the world is going.
I would like to see some actual figures for the workforce rather than "a lot work part time hours." and "A lot earn the minimum wage"
and "So only a small percentage of those 28 million workers work full time"
"Look at the figures again?" When I see some I will look at them LOL

[loosebruce]

You could be worse off, and live in the ewe ess aye.
Don't need any more poms here the place is fullathacnz.

[Spondonash]

Loosebruce isn't a very Aboriginal name ?

[loosebruce]

It's pronounced ab bori ginal,don't get me started on Kiwis,they've ruined this country!

[Spondonash]

Now that's not fair, without the Kiwis there wouldn't be any famous Aussies.

[Jockney Rebel]

my brothers beginning to establish himself in NZ as a conts. manager wages seem less here when u first get here but u have to not convert and think of relative living costs i have more disposable income here than ive had in years..

[Jockney Rebel]

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

"Oslo, Norway topped the list of the most expensive, followed by Paris, Copenhagen, Denmark and London. Two Japanese cities broke into the top ten: Tokyo - which claimed the top spot in 2005 and came in second last year - at fifth and Osaka Kobe at sixth."
Not quite first but maybe it depends who you listen to. LOL.
"Everyone here is working themselves to death for average/poor wages " That statement is just absurd, it just isn't true. All my mates over there have a comfortable life and earn good money.
Australians are working amongst the longest if not THE longest hours in the OECD according to our media and a great many work unpaid overtime, the funny thing is the spin the media put on that was that Aussies are therefore the hardest workers in the world :-)
I just smile when I read all this because I think that could all be about this country, our beloved leader has recently introduced legislation that more or less removes any remaining rights workers had. Agree to the terms or take a walk. The next door neighbours son is a first year electrical apprentice and he told me he was earning $2.80 an hour. That's $2.80an hour. There is a minimum wage of something like $12.00 but this seemingly doesn't apply to apprentices.
This isn't a "who's country is better" sort of thing it's just that it seems as though this is the way the world is going.
I would like to see some actual figures for the workforce rather than "a lot work part time hours." and "A lot earn the minimum wage"
and "So only a small percentage of those 28 million workers work full time"
"Look at the figures again?" When I see some I will look at them LOL

ash im a socialist by nature and im not denegrating my country of birth ..[im a proud scot ..]and ive lived and worked in 3 other european countries ...if we didnt get in here we were going to live in Holland for me its not just a finacial thing its emotional and socialogical these are the reasons i moved and to the many expats ive talked to they seem to be fairly common reasons for leaving britian fear for the future ..
im just a realist the 18% income tax u refer to ?where dy get that mate ? the only time i evr paid 18 % was when i was on CIS[ self employed] and then it gets clawed back in april
i reckon there are some sections of the uk workforce "who ve nevr had it so good" but ull usually find there either asset rich and cash poor or in an industry such as banking or a service industry
we re talking about engineering /manufacturing /construction[ traditionally reasonably well paid jobs for blu collar workers ]
if i could live the same sort of lifestyle in britian as here at the same cost
..i doubt id go back anyway because that is just part of it ..the fact i can discuss these issues with people who have diometrically opposed veiws without it degenerating into a fight proves the people here are more relaxed than back home STRESS is the thing! im less stressed that ive evr been thats it in a nutshell for me at least
anyway so RE5s were shit what about the other thing from germany ? aircooled DKW i think ?

[Jockney Rebel]

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

Now that's not fair, without the Kiwis there wouldn't be any famous Aussies.

ahhh NZ aka little Scotland ......without scotland there wouldnt be any decent engineers in the uk i mean even capt Kirks engineer was a jock

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

"Australians are working amongst the longest if not THE longest hours in the OECD according to our media and a great many work unpaid overtime, the funny thing is the spin the media put on that was that Aussies are therefore the hardest workers in the world :-)

I wouldn't get too carried away by those particular OECD figures, you know how they get them? They go out and ask inner city people and upper level public servants how many hours they work, then the Dept. sends those figures into the OECD for publishing without any validation. And while upper level public servants do work longish hours, they all put down more than they actually do, and forget to take off things like lunch breaks, we used to piss ourselves at some of the stuff that came in, because we knew the people answering them. And I've spent enough time in enough Dept's to know it's all bollocks, same with inner city workers in Melbourne and Sydney &etc, they ALL make out that they work longer hours than they really do. Telstra office workers carry on amongst the worst, yet when I was contracting there, and in the public service, the only staff still around after 5 pm were the contractors. DEWR is a twat of a dept. and well known for distorting every statistic that goes through them. It's mainly staffed by ex-FACSIA staff, and that's bottom of the barrel in public service terms.
I've worked in nursing, public service, IT, some factory and such like, and most Australians put in 40 hours a week and FUCK ALL more, maybe 15 % of the workforce put in the long hours claimed, and they tend to be professionals /real estate / self employed and the like, ie generally well paid areas where the more hours you work, the more you earn.

quote:Originally posted by frankenbiker

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

Now that's not fair, without the Kiwis there wouldn't be any famous Aussies.

ahhh NZ aka little Scotland ......without scotland there wouldnt be any decent engineers in the uk i mean even capt Kirks engineer was a jock

Only down in the South Island mate, up in the North they're 'South Pacific Poms', just as wet as England, but more temperate climate.
Actually the SI was primarily Scottish immigrants, and the NI English immigrants, why the fuck the Scots actually chose to go down there I'll never understand, those mountains don't look that great, and fuck it is cold, colder than my ex-wife's heart even.

[Jockney Rebel]

quote:Originally posted by chalk10

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

"Australians are working amongst the longest if not THE longest hours in the OECD according to our media and a great many work unpaid overtime, the funny thing is the spin the media put on that was that Aussies are therefore the hardest workers in the world :-)

I wouldn't get too carried away by those particular OECD figures, you know how they get them? They go out and ask inner city people and upper level public servants how many hours they work, then the Dept. sends those figures into the OECD for publishing without any validation. And while upper level public servants do work longish hours, they all put down more than they actually do, and forget to take off things like lunch breaks, we used to piss ourselves at some of the stuff that came in, because we knew the people answering them. And I've spent enough time in enough Dept's to know it's all bollocks, same with inner city workers in Melbourne and Sydney &etc, they ALL make out that they work longer hours than they really do. Telstra office workers carry on amongst the worst, yet when I was contracting there, and in the public service, the only staff still around after 5 pm were the contractors. DEWR is a twat of a dept. and well known for distorting every statistic that goes through them. It's mainly staffed by ex-FACSIA staff, and that's bottom of the barrel in public service terms.
I've worked in nursing, public service, IT, some factory and such like, and most Australians put in 40 hours a week and FUCK ALL more, maybe 15 % of the workforce put in the long hours claimed, and they tend to be professionals /real estate / self employed and the like, ie generally well paid areas where the more hours you work, the more you earn.

y know what they say chalk thers lies, damned lies and statsitics.

and as for u Ash
ur obviously an Anglophile or summat we had our heritage sold out from under us

point of fact british telecom state owned for ever run down then floated on the stoke exchange so that big fish could make a quik killing at the staes expense same with british rail etc etc

i mean if i if i stole ur car broke it up then sold u the parts back would u accept that ? well thats what maggie done with our nationalized industrys
why have we no engineering training program? because she sold it to the engineering industry who broke it down and sold it on... the old country is just that.. old, knackered and on the verge of being just another state in europe
i mean germanys fast becoming europes bank ,france is its larder, and the rest just sponge off the richer states
i believe the situation will sort itself out eventually but i dont have the time to wait for them to sort it out. mean while the uk is in limbo neither in or out of europe

my uncle in scotland is a trawlerman has his own boat his tax goes toward the payment britian makes to europe i dont know the exact figure but its the same as Spain takes out evry year they have brand new trawlers[ subsidised by the eu ] that fish for cod etc off the west coast of scotland with smaller nets ..is he pissed off ? u bet
his tax enables spanish fishermen to more efficiantly stitch him up .
we could fire stats at each other all night im just quoting my personal experience and that of all the other people i know i worked 44hrs salary paid so no o/t[the average w week]for a take home pay of 275 per week average for the industry. in the plant hire firm
then drive a cab self employed for 2 sometimes 3 12 hour shifts thurs thru sat
averaging 350 quid take tax and all my overheads from that [cab rent circuit rent ins fuel etc and i would be left with app 200 ..my wife took home 200 a week also average for her industry
to exsist in london u NEED 500 quid a week end of story

i work 37.5 hours a week here and take home ,on average 800bucks and the wife works 3days for 350 our outgoings are less than 50% of our earnings and thats including credit etc
i have sat tv ,a106mm plasma all the mod cons we couldnt afford back home i live in a 3 bed house next to the ocean drive a 280 merc and have a bike eat out regularly etc try that in britian no chance u got it good here mate im not an idiot and i aint lazy if it was ok back home idv stayed there why drag my family halfway round the world ?i arrived in aus with the clothes on my back and 1500 quid 18 months ago best days work i ever did
as for wages well
fireman 24000pa
nurse 22k pa
cop 22k pa
bus driver 18.5k pa
briky s/em 40k pa [puts him in the 35% tax bracket ]
teacher 18-19 k pa
then we get to the "professions "
lawyer 100k pa
doctor nhs 65 k pa
doctor private 100 k pa
civil eng 35k pa upwards dep on field

just do the math an ave house costs 200-250k right ?
if ur household earns 38k a year the most banks will only give u 3.5 times ur salary so 3.5x38k=133000 if ur an average fam u have at least 1 kid so yer fuked really

[HOS]

quote:Originally posted by Spondonash

"Oslo, Norway topped the list of the most expensive, followed by Paris, Copenhagen, Denmark and London. Two Japanese cities broke into the top ten: Tokyo - which claimed the top spot in 2005 and came in second last year - at fifth and Osaka Kobe at sixth."
Not quite first but maybe it depends who you listen to. LOL.
"Everyone here is working themselves to death for average/poor wages " That statement is just absurd, it just isn't true. All my mates over there have a comfortable life and earn good money.
Australians are working amongst the longest if not THE longest hours in the OECD according to our media and a great many work unpaid overtime, the funny thing is the spin the media put on that was that Aussies are therefore the hardest workers in the world :-)
I just smile when I read all this because I think that could all be about this country, our beloved leader has recently introduced legislation that more or less removes any remaining rights workers had. Agree to the terms or take a walk. The next door neighbours son is a first year electrical apprentice and he told me he was earning $2.80 an hour. That's $2.80an hour. There is a minimum wage of something like $12.00 but this seemingly doesn't apply to apprentices.
This isn't a "who's country is better" sort of thing it's just that it seems as though this is the way the world is going.
I would like to see some actual figures for the workforce rather than "a lot work part time hours." and "A lot earn the minimum wage"
and "So only a small percentage of those 28 million workers work full time"
"Look at the figures again?" When I see some I will look at them LOL

Till the next economic slump, then I can watch the city slicks go down hard like last time in the early 90s. They never saw it coming then either. No street sense
Talent and practical ability gets you through those times, but thats what city guys do`nt have. The last recession taught me a lot, I survived with my family intact many didnt.

Statisics can be paid for by whoever wants to get a point across whether right or wrong.
The UK Government makes theirs up to suit their own purposes as do the UK police and safety scamera partnerships

[Spondonash]

I do like the fact that any stats that favour the UK are made up or twisted and those that favour Australia seem to be spot on. LOL. The assertion that you couldn't afford a plasma TV or satellite TV or whatever is just ridiculous. I'm sorry you had such a low wage in the UK but it's hardly fair to compare apples with oranges. I was earning more than you did installing kitchens in the South West around 7 years ago. My mate who has just got back from working in London loved it and as I said he earned twice what he did here and found almost everything around the same price. My friends have all the things you seem to believe don't exist in England, some even have 2 bikes and 2 cars and manage to eat out as well LOL. Some of your views on life in the UK are so far off the mark they aren't funny, well actually they are. Part of the reason most Aussies have such a distorted view of the UK is because ex Pats tell them they live in a one room house that they share with 2 other families and only eat 3 times a week and walk 5 miles to work because they can't afford to run a car.
I remember the last recession here when interest rates reached over 20 % and people were losing their homes left right and centre.
"just do the math an ave house costs 200-250k right ?
if ur household earns 38k a year the most banks will only give u 3.5 times ur salary so 3.5x38k=133000 if ur an average fam u have at least 1 kid so yer fuked really"
You can make up any scenario like this, what about here in Brisbane where houses are still relatively cheap. A house is say $300-400k and you earn say $30,000 a year ? Lets not mention Sydney house prices.
I have a brother who lives very happily in the UK and another brother who would move back tomorrow but his wife likes where they are.
My point is I am sure there are loads of people in the UK that have a tough life but to assume it doesn't happen here is just absurd.
You guys are obviously happy with your lives here as am I BUT don't let your memories get too clouded

[Large]

... and I lived in shoe box in't middle of road and licked road clean wit tongue....

[Spondonash]

You were lucky....

[Jockney Rebel]

i got up 2 hrs before i went to bed mate to paint coal white for the queen [who thinks the world smells of emulsion]:} i reckon well just agree to disagree on this one ash mate rock and a hard place etc nice debating with u tho ...dy play chess at all?