NSW wants these laws , like SA

[Jockney Rebel]

oz I too have mates who are Angels back home and like you i dont consider them villians but because some members of their group[not even the same chapter] they are labeled as such .
the trouble with bikie gangs here, as far as i can see, is that the criminal element within them has hijacked the image and used it to intimidate their victims and as such dragged the whole scene into that black hole
they inherit discrimination
just like all jews are tight ,
all west indians are drug dealers ,
all italians are mobsters ,
etc etc
so based on that logic ...every body who rides a harley and wears a vest will be pulled regardless of their affiliations ..youll be seeing a load of weekend warriors[dudes who are not in any club but like the image ] selling their harleys and buying summat else ..itll then spread to include ALL bikers ..
and anyone thinks that the government wil be able to police these laws to any real extent of fairness ........they're dreaming itll be a case of
bikers are a minority and if we just hassle them all then well get the ones we want eventually..
just like Adolf did 70yrs ago

[ozkat]

Joe public doesnt have a clue of the difference between "Bikers" and "Bikies" and they really dont care. They see a bunch of people on bikes and asume we are all "Bikies" most non riding people wouldnt know the difference between a Hayabusa and a Harley. We apparantley ride loud bikes, disregard road rules and are most of the time dressed in leather. They consider us all to be the same. They live on their 600sqm block with their 2.5 kids and drive a Corolla to work, ofcourse we scare the shit out of them. We are different to them. But ill be fucked if im branded a criminal because i ride and am different.

[Tony OW31]

It wont make any difference as far as I am concerned, the blatant discrimination and harassment is already there. I have been in my day job for 10 yrs, on the route I generally take there is a spot just over the crest of a hill where the speed limit drops from 100 to 60 for no apparent reason, there is a cop sitting there usually three out of the 5 working days with his laser gun. In that 10 years I have been pulled over for a "licence check" 63 times whilst riding my bike, 0 times whilst driving the car, and I drive the car more than I ride the bike.
They don't need any more excuses, they do it anyway.

[Jockney Rebel]

quote:Originally posted by EFE 1230

That's the "DANGER" of the laws, I work with 2 blokes that have HD's the shops they go to get work done are "outlaw" owned/run so technically under the laws they can be done for association even though they are 100% cleanskins.

..exactly my point good one mate

[Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Tony OW31

It wont make any difference as far as I am concerned, the blatant discrimination and harassment is already there. I have been in my day job for 10 yrs, on the route I generally take there is a spot just over the crest of a hill where the speed limit drops from 100 to 60 for no apparent reason, there is a cop sitting there usually three out of the 5 working days with his laser gun. In that 10 years I have been pulled over for a "licence check" 63 times whilst riding my bike, 0 times whilst driving the car, and I drive the car more than I ride the bike.
They don't need any more excuses, they do it anyway.

That's the danger as I see it - individual cops will have more power to book (ever had to deal with an anti-bike policeman?) and they will be able to act just on hearsay ie. your neighbour doesn't like your loudish bike so they call the police anon and say, "There's a guy in my street who rides a loud bike, has a patch on his jacket and always has biker mates over. I think he's part of a gang and they have gang meetings at his house".

That's all the cops will need to search and enter under these new laws.

I'm not bagging the Cops out over this, I just think there should be checks in place to stop an anti-social officer from acting emotionally instead of rationally.

Another thing to consider is that once these laws are in place, there's little chance of going back.

Anyone read Steve Price's article in todays (Sunday) Telegraph? Descriminate and inciteful!

[Booster]

Arn't the Ulysses considered a bikie club in SA, when it gets to that its just stupidity and anyone can be targetted
never much sense in kneejerk laws rushed through without proper consideration.

[Chris41]

quote:Joe public doesnt have a clue of the difference between "Bikers" and "Bikies" and they really dont care

This is so true one of my workers in a mill in Vic was trying to be a copper He could not tell the difference between a girl on a GN250 or a 1% er, anyone who rode a bike was a bikie he ended stationed down in South Melbourne somewhere, happy at the fact that bashing drunks was a sport down there.

The cops have the middle eastern crime gang task force the just need to expand it legislation is not needed we have laws they just need to be enforced.
Also organized crime rarely exists without police corruption and complicity, so the police can look to them selves to start with.

I don't have much respect for 1% clubs these days they have little to do with biking, but such legislation is unnecessary and is just governments grandstanding to cover the fact that they are ineffectual This seems the way of politics now make big statements then do fuck all.

[chopaweeza]

Well , I work with a member of the Motorcycle Council of NSW . He's shown me that the Sth Aust laws aren't actually anti-bikie or anti motorcycle . They are very broad in their terms in fact and that means that if the local Footie club has a couple of criminal members and they cause a ruckus every so often then the local footie club can be outlawed . Same goes for any group.

Take the paid members of ASF for example. Most bikes here are not 100% ADR compliant , they site often has postings of people speeding or other anti-social behaviour and some members here have a criminal record of some kind . While the paid members for the most not involved in crime as a means of financial support neither are most members of the targetted outlaw clubs. Plus , we have the HOON factor against us too and thats another buzzword that sells newspapers . While we think that these things won;t affect us we have by our nature set ourselves of the block for the chop in the future .

[ozkat]

I agree with what Chop says, it covers all organized clubs no matter who they are, wether it be bikes, cars, footy, chess or knitting. If the police suspect criminal or illegal activities within the said club they can enforce laws that make it illegal to be a member of that club. That includes by association. Ofcourse its aimed directly at the 1% clubs at the moment but how long will it take to affect other organizations in the broarder community? How long will it take to affect ASF?

[scrotary]

in the admiralty jurisdiction, laws are only made to stop an incident happening twice, that is why you can be penalised for something that might happen, if your speeding you might have an accident and kill/injur someone, you haven't injured anyone but the state claims an injury instead, which is why the state is the complainant, this all comes down to liability/insurance. ownership is liability, who ever owns the roads has to have an insurance policy on those roads, the more injuries/deaths the higher the premium, the states claims ownership of all inside its borders, including people(commonly refered to as 'chattel of the state'). this is why these laws are being made, to reduce risk to state property...this all sounds like bullshit but four years ago when i started studying i laughed too.

[DiscoDan]

Let's keep a balanced view here guys, we don't know enough about how the proposed laws will work to start jumping at shadows. The one thing that is clear is that the police will need to apply to the supreme court to have a club declared an illegal organisation before they can do anything. I think it's pretty unlikely they'll do that for a new loud exhausts, small indicators and 300 rwhp turbo monsters

http://www.smh.com.au/national/rees-...0330-9ggr.html

In principle I'm massively against this kind of law but you can see how it comes about. Obviously the existing means for dealing with hardcore crims (as compared to us softcore types) aren't effective against tight gang structures and with all the hysterics in the papers they've got to do something to appease the masses. I'm hoping the bikie's money will get them some good QCs and they'll shred the laws as unconstitutional in the high court.

[sharky]

quote:How long will it take to affect ASF?

Last time ASF was called a club it was shot down as we are not in the legal terms a club (president,committee,treasurer etc.
We are a group of independant people,with a common interest, on a forum so the laws they dream up cannot applied to us.

[Nudie]

I'm all for stopping gang related criminal behaviour as much as the next person. But these laws have the potential to have a lot more effect than currently proposed.
Let's say these Outlaw Gangs are successfully shut down to the Govt's satisfaction (which would include confiscating all of their property for resale to add to said Govt's coffers). Around the office Mr Fat Overpaid-Uselesscunt decides "Wow, that worked well. How about we target some other life threatening group of dangerous curs!" He throws a dart at the newspaper and it puntures a ripping yarn concerning a stretch of road that has been the scene of a higher than average incidence of motorcycle related speeding/noise complaints/accidents/fashion faux pars, or similar. Then motorcyclists of all persuasions will be outlaws.
This might sound a bit extreme, and I hope i'm wrong, but who knows?

[Cruisecontrol]

This thread is starting to reek of paranoia...

If you ride above the speed limits it is breaking the law.
If you modify your bike and it doesn't meet ADR requirements, it breaking the law.

This is all stuff that we already know and if we a currently caught we will be dealt with as per the LAW.

They can target us now, so what difference does it make if they slap a label on it?
Will I get fined if my bike is legal but I associate with people who's bikes aren't? NO.

Fuck everyone that is dumb enough to continually associate with known criminals to the point that police believe that they are also involved.

[Nudie]

You're not paranoid if they really are out to get you![B)]

I feel safe, as I have no friends and don't deal with people

[EFE 1230]

If you are involved with known criminals you take your chances, the problem is when the govt decides who is a criminal regardless of any evidence.
These laws are aimed at a specific group but can be applied to "Joe Public" as well.

Look at the "Hoon Laws" enacted around the country, has it stopped dropkick drivers killing themselves?

No, but they have impacted on many modified car owners by restricting lawful use of their vehicles due to police harassment.

Have "Little Johnny Howard's" gun laws after Pt Aurthur stopped gun crime?

No, because only lawful gun owner's participated in the buy back not criminal's.

The "paranoia" is justified because if the govt is allowed to pass knee jerk laws every time there is a "problem" in society then eventually the only solution (in govt eyes) will be the total control of every aspect of peoples lives.

If the police can't use the current laws to stop criminal activity then they have a problem that new laws won't fix, the criminals might stop being "bikies" but they won't stop being criminals so what purpose do the new laws serve?

[Large]

quote:Originally posted by EFE 1230

If you are involved with known criminals you take your chances, the problem is when the govt decides who is a criminal regardless of any evidence.
These laws are aimed at a specific group but can be applied to "Joe Public" as well.

Look at the "Hoon Laws" enacted around the country, has it stopped dropkick drivers killing themselves?

No, but they have impacted on many modified car owners by restricting lawful use of their vehicles due to police harassment.

Have "Little Johnny Howard's" gun laws after Pt Aurthur stopped gun crime?

No, because only lawful gun owner's participated in the buy back not criminal's.

The "paranoia" is justified because if the govt is allowed to pass knee jerk laws every time there is a "problem" in society then eventually the only solution (in govt eyes) will be the total control of every aspect of peoples lives.

If the police can't use the current laws to stop criminal activity then they have a problem that new laws won't fix, the criminals might stop being "bikies" but they won't stop being criminals so what purpose do the new laws serve?

Hear hear.

We've already got laws against murder and drug manufacture/smuggling and affray and intimidation that will get you hard labour(and if you put "in Company" in front of the charge you get another 5 years).

We don't need new laws that are designed to appeal to the morons that ring talkback hosts and beat off on air.

Fuck this state is already fucking hard as mate. We send Judges to jail for lying over 77$

[KRASH]

I heard on the radio this arvo that Qld is rushing simalar laws in so Qld isn't seen as a "SAFE HAVEN" for outlaw gangs...

[DiscoDan]

quote:Originally posted by KRASH

I heard on the radio this arvo that Qld is rushing simalar laws in so Qld isn't seen as a "SAFE HAVEN" for outlaw gangs...

What a narrow field of view these guys have. Don't they realise what an opportunity this is, this could bring more money into the QLD economy than 100 indy-car races and give it a real point of differentiation. We're all a bit tired of the 'perfect beach' crap