jaffaZd's z900 Turbo

[Hoppa]

Now just waitin 4 this to heal, no , just fell over my my own big feet.

[sickboy]

Shit mate wtf,spose I should be the first to make the silly pun joke ,with a name like yours ............ seriously though get well soon mate, and yeah love your bikes to.

[JaffaZd]

(EXBEN) was gunna answer this question a couple of post ago and forgot re the SM4.
This is the first time i have played with an Autronic SM4 (played with both Haltechs and Motecs before + wolfs) and it is interesting in it's principal, I am running it in the Multi-Throttle mode with TPS and Baro pressure sensing. On the initial start-up i had a problem with sorting out a miss, which eventually turned out to be a antilag cool down setting, even though i had antilag set to off the cool down still was engaging (my fault). The other thing i have found is that i think i have set up the fuel reg wrong for a multi throttle engine and largish camshafts. The fuel reg is currently running off manifold vacume and this produces a very unlinear fuel map , probably because of the engine having no vacume and then after getting a few rpm on board grabbing a heap of vacume and then going to no vacume again into boost, this puts the fuel pressure all over the place, Probably should of just set it up to read boost only . eg turbo side of the butterfly's, actually i will do this next time i take it back to the dyno as currently only running .5bar of boost and want to turn it up to 1bar.

I wold be interested if you have played with the Autronic in this mode or anybody else for some advice.

Thanks

[JaffaZd]

Hoppa

YEP I have had the same problem as you, oil just weaping out of the camchain tunnel area ,. it is just enought to be annoying , i have since pulled the head (APE) bolts up a little futher and seems to have done the trick , mine was actually weaping out not at the head but down at the block end.

Hey nice looking 1000R , bet you can't wait for that leg to heal so as you can get out and rip up some bitumen . [8D]
Don't know where any GPZ1100 cams are do you buy chance, would like to give them ago if i can find a set.

Thanks
Jaffa

[Hoppa]

Hi Jaffa, pics a little fussie but this what i've done to try an fix the oil seep, the block has just enough room to fit 2 studs at the front an the head has even less room to drill matching holes but achievable. Not proven in the long term but looks good so far. yep i have ape studs pulled down to 40 ft pds. With regard to the noise from the cams at low revs, are you getting sufficent oil feed at low revs. the MTC block should have the oil feed holes checked to see if they have been enlarged to match the over size APE studs.Where did you take the turbo oil feed from, has that impacted on low rpm oil pressure/flow to the head. I don't have gpz1100 cams but i do have z1000j cams an after market cams [brand unknown] ranging from 8.5 to 9.5 lift min overlap. Sorry no tech specs available, no I.D. on cams.Your welcome to try a set if you like, Cheers Hoppa.

[JaffaZd]

Hi Hoppa

Ahh i see not a bad solution to the oil weeping problem ,.. at present mine seems to be behaving so will leave it. but if it starts again i might have to attempt a similar sloution.
Hmm yes i thought at first it might be poor oil presure at idle to the camshafts so closed the feed to the turbo off to see if it fixed the problem with no luck. You can actually here the oil get up to the camshafts from a cold start and it does quiten down. Running with the camcover off plenty of oil seems to be spashing around so the only thing i can put it down to is the camshaft profiles slapping the buckets around.
Hmm thanks for the offer on trying a set of camshafts but i would have to shrink a camsensor ring on to them, and also want to try and keep the lift up around the 10mm. I have a stock set of Z900 camshafts i was going to throw in to see if this quiten it up also see what happend to power production this will give me a better idea in which direction to head atleast. I imagin it will feel a bit breathless with the 900 ones in but will have to see what happens i could be pleasantly surprised.
Do you have a link or specs on your Andrews camshafts i could have a squiz at.

Thanks

[alfiestorm]

quote:Originally posted by JaffaZd

Hi Hoppa

Ahh i see not a bad solution to the oil weeping problem ,.. at present mine seems to be behaving so will leave it. but if it starts again i might have to attempt a similar sloution.

Just a quick note on the oil weeping between the head and cylinders at the front on the zd's this is usually because of the rectangle shaped O ring that sits around the cam chain tunnel in it's groove. It leaks at the front on tuned engines or engines that are used hard. The cure is before the head is put back on throw away the rectangle O ring and use a silicone gasket the stuff you get in tubes make sure it is of a high heat rating and fill the channel that the rectangle O ring sits in with the silicone gasket so it is Just proud of the channel and flush with the gasket in it's uncompressed state and let set for half an hour then put the head back on.
This does work as i have used it on turbo engines and nitrous also on standard street bikes with no oil weeping. Debben performance here in the uk also use the same method on there drag and race bikes.

[Ed74mnd]

Hi Jaffa,

real nice set up there.
im hoping to go down a similar path with my Suzuki GSX.

is the TD04L a ball bearing turbo? oil cooled only?

also how is the heat build up around the turbo?

love the stealth installation... very nice.

Cheers

Ed

[JaffaZd]

Hi Ed
GSX hey! My first memory of a GSX was at the age of about 11 - 12, my old man putting me on the back, taking me to school at warp ten , on the back wheel several times. Pulled up at the school and it had scared the shit out of me, tears pooring down my face. Fond memory's them

Turbo is a Roller and is also water cooled, as you have probably gathered NO WATER . Not sure how this will effect the Turbo as it doesn't seem to get awfully hot. The only real hot point is on the exhaust where the heel of your right foot sometime rest's against the pipe. Other than that the heat difference is minimal.
I have had it up in the hills a few times and the heat seems to creep in a bit more in this situation. I plan on trying to take it to Winton the next time the ASF guys go to see how it all preforms and this will show up any heat related problems.
But bottom line is heat back through the seat you don't notice, seat does have a 10-15mm air gap double panel.

Would be keen to see progress on the GSX as it happens


Thanks
Jaffa

[Ed74mnd]

thanks heaps for that info Jaffa,

TD04L 13T (or is it G?) or 16?

the GSX I reckon still has some get up and go, not compared to a modern sports bike but the vague feeling it has at any speed makes you feel alive.

as im sure you're well aware of on your Z. lol

my bike has its thread here.
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/for...?TOPIC_ID=2134

currently ive got the swinger with Exben to weld a tag on it, going to run 38 CV carbs and K&N pods while i collect all the bits and associated knowledge to do the turbo thing. have even looked into making up a megasquirt EFI set up using GPZ1100 throttle bodies (if i can find them).

the suspension and brakes (GSXR) are all sorted now.

like you i'm going to fab up most of it myself to keep a lid on costs.. and I'm hoping to have a stealthy instal too!

fun , fun.. this was supposed to be my easy project.. lol

Cheers

Ed

[JaffaZd]

No Prob for the info Ed

TD04L-13T is the Turbo

It's its second turbo, had a Garret ct20 (plain bearing) before the TD04L.

Have you decided on a turbo for the GSX yet. Turbo will liven the old girl up to surprise a few of the modern bikes.

Just had a squiz at your GSX old school weapon, great stuff. []

Jaffa

[evad]

Hey JAffa, what sort of rpms does the turbo start making noticeable boost at and what PSI are you runnng? How dificult is it to tune the autronic ecu? Havae you had her on a dyne? Im pretty supprised that I never noticed this post earlier as the pld zeds and fuel injection are what im keen on
Ed I have GPZ1100 hardware and a megasquirt on my 650 lol.
There is a guy on hte msefi site that has a gsx on MS and now he has just fitted a turbo. He is using the kawa tbs etc.











/

[shift1313]

That bike is amazing jaffa! super clean and super stealth. (evad he said he was running .5bar somewhere in the post, thats about 7psi). On that note id becareful turning that thing up to 1bar without any sort of intercooler or alky injection setup. especially on an aircooled setup where heat soak might happen very quickly. I had the same oil leak problem on my gpz at the front and rear of the head. pulled it, decked it and put it back on still leaked. changed the vesrah gasket for an oem kaw gasket and it fixed the problem. big price difference though. On a cam note. I think you shouldnt be too concerned with the lift of your cam, but more about duration, and degreeing it to leave some overlap to shift your torque curve down lower. It will drop your lag a good bit and you might start getting noticable boost at like 2500-3000rpm. I know that the 750turbo, 750 and 1100 cams all arent very well suited to the turbo. I love the bike and cant wait to see what it pulls on the dyno. id be sure you need a new rear tire when you go cause its going to ruin the one you have on there.

[Booster]

They chew tires if not strapped down hard enough, cost me an engine once , dyno at various settings up to 15psi(pressure reg raising boost levels) wavy line on the hp & torque above 12psi but get the hp expected , next thing in use its making 20 psi only 1 bar sensor and only mapped to 1 bar and destroyed the cyls and several pistons in first hard use.
Lesson use ratcheting tie downs , several if possable and tie it hard, run max rated tire pressure and don't use super sticky tires.

I use a datalogger more than a dyno now.

[evad]

booster what does your datalogger read? Do you have a wb o2 sensor?
Is it part of the ECU software?

[JaffaZd]

quote: Hey JAffa, what sort of rpms does the turbo start making noticeable boost at and what PSI

Hi Evad, It's starts making boost 0.1Bar at 3700rpm and has full boost by around the 4500rpm 0.5Bar, i havn't turned the boost up yet.

quote:How dificult is it to tune the autronic

Ahh the Autrnoic took awhile to get my head around exactly how it worked and all the options available, once my head was in the correct place the tunning is relativley easy.

quote:I love the bike and cant wait to see what it pulls on the dyno

Yep had the bike on a Dyno dynamics dyno and at first i was slightly dissapointed with the results 130 RearWHP at 8600 Rpm running 0.5bar
The guy then told me a 1000GSXR 2006 model gets 128rwhp on the same dyno.
He has a conversion figure to get it to a DynoJet figure which is the most common Bike Dyno and the magazie's use.
For comparision the figure would of been 165RWHP

After all that i had a sneaky suspision that maybe he was reading KW instead of HP and didn't want to admit it.

quote:I use a datalogger more than a dyno now

Booster, I have just started playing around with Dataloging on the road with a wide band sensor, have found it very usefull for getting all those point that a dyno can't make . eg trundling down a step hill with small throttle openings.

Unfortunatley i didn't get to far into the Dattaloging situation as i have had a small problem with oiling plugs from day one ,.. sometime it would go for a week with out the problem and it would do it only under a closed throttle loading. So i decided to pull it down for inspection presuming i had boke an oil ring or a valve guide/seal was rooted or somthing. Bottom line was that the bores had been bored to large one was out of round by 2thou and the others over size by 2-5thou with walls not parralell by about 1thou. This is my fault as i should of checked what the bloody machine shop had done before putting it together, it didn't even twig on me to check the professionals work.

So i am currently waiting for a new set of oversize piston to turn up.

[ozkat]

Great looking bike Jaffa. With the long distance of the header pipes and pipe to the turbo do you think it affects performance at all. The reason i ask is im thinking of doing a similar setup on my dragbike but mine will be draw through.

[JaffaZd]

quote:long distance of the header pipes and pipe to the turbo do you think it affects performance at all

ozkat
I can tell you what i have found out from my own experience, I want to make this a lengthy reply [:I] so you know the trap falls that may affect you for the drags.

I have done this setup first on a car before the bike and both applications only suffer from 1-2 problem's the frist time you open the throttle the whole system is slightly laggy due to the cool pipes , once the heat gets into the system they are fine.

Hmm ok a better example on the bike

If you are just crusing around town, and haven't boosted for 5mins or so the first time you open the throttle you will notice it takes 2.0-2.5secs (roughly) for boost to happen, it is quite noticeble the time. I must point out that once you have the heat in the pipes it takes 0.5sec roughly for boost.
If you are cruising out the road at 4000rpm onboard for 5mins and crack the throttle boost is instant even if it hasn't boosted before. heat must be in the system from the rev's onboard. If the 5min time is reduced to say 15-20secs you notice the lag problem again even if you up rev to 6000rpm.

I can only put it down to the length of stainless pipework cooling the charger/ taking heat energy before the turbo.
It was noticably worse with the bigger exhaust housing on the earlier turbo setup.

Don't get me wrong it takes really no effort to get the heat into the system and also it retains it quite well.

ok the last thing i have noticed it that the turbo hit is quite lineal in the power delivery. compared to one mounted up close to the head exaust ports. I put this down to the length of pipe work/area the exhaust gas has to compress itself and heat loss. The soft delivery is a plus on the bike for street use but not so sure for a drag application.

I know for sure it is from the turbo distance to length/area of pipework due to the Car.
I had a Garrett GT35R (700hp)Turbo, mounted up close to head and power delivery was savage.
Moving the turbo down the rear a good 2.5m length of pipework, power delivery was spread over 1500rpm instead of the savage 500rpm.
On a side note as well power at same boost level went from the upclose set up 285rwkw to 305rkwk rear mounted and heat out of the engine bay was the biggest gain.


So i think for Drags the lag / heat problem could be solved by an anti-lag arrangement and some thermal coatings on the pipes.
The softer power delivery, well maybe the antilag set up will solve this if you can leave the line with the whole system already under pressure.

Hope this helps , let me know what you think.

[Madmaxx]

A guy on a different site posted a link to this bike....
HOLY HELL!!!!
What a beautiful bike!!!!

[xb9r]

Nice Zed sled mate bloody awesome