Actually, the vermin tried to impose enviro taxes on dutch (I think) farmers a few years ago, because their pigs and cattle were producing too much methane, came close to getting it passed too.
So prepare yourself for the inevitable gas flow meters rammed up our asses. (told you they were allfags)
The Norton Rotaries of the 80's and 90's were reliable well made bikes but were built in tiny numbers which meant they were expensive for what they were. The components were absolutely first class including the Spondon frame, WP forks and rear suspension, PFM wheels etc. They are an absolute joy to ride and would still hold their own against any of the generic Jap bikes. Britain has a long and allustrious history of engineering and thankfully in Triumph we see that tradition well and truly be upheld.
The 'new' Norton Rotary has nothing really to do with Norton Motors and is built by the former rotary guru Brian Crighton.
I have the bare bones of a Norton road bike which just needs numerous hours work to put it togetherI also have the Harris rotary Ron Haslam rode in the 1991 British GP, I did have a Spondon framed rotary race bike that Steve Spray won the 1989 British Championship on but it has been sold and returned to the UK.
There is an enormous amount of ignorance and misinformation surrounding the Nortons unfortunately.
It was never banned from racing, it wasn't allowed to race in the USA but that was no big deal. The only reason it stopped racing is that Norton basically stopped trading.quote:
chalk
There was not much if anything that could touch it on the track that is why it was banned from the races it was too fast for it's size? apparently [8D]
chalkquote:Originally posted by Spondonash
It was never banned from racing, it wasn't allowed to race in the USA but that was no big deal. The only reason it stopped racing is that Norton basically stopped trading.
There was not much if anything that could touch it on the track that is why it was banned from the races it was too fast for it's size? apparently [8D]
[/quote]
[/quote]wasnt there a big hoo ha about its capacity i seem to remember?
i met some of the 94 team [where the pic was taken in chatham in kent] and they told me the bike was streets ahead in performance compared to the competition..id love to see a british built bike do well on the track again and as for commandos being behind in the 70's of course thats true we all know the british bike industry was caught with its pants down but due to mismanagment as usual not lack of inventivness [just like the car industry later on]
the phylosophy is all wrong the japs find out what the market wants and then build it ,whereas the brits management said we ll build it then u try to sell it
depending a lot on customer loyalty,u only have to look at some of the half arsed ideas NVT came out with in the late 70"s
Personally I'd rather see Triumph back on the track, competitively. As I said earlier they are producing real world bikes, not exotica ala the current and former Norton Rotaries.
If I was into race track specials I wouldn't be here, I'd be off chatting to the newbies, wannabe's and just plain twats on OSB.
I woulda thought much the same with you Franken, let's face it our choice of machines will never be seen on race tracks again (except for granddad racing) but with our personal attention they are competitive machines out along the Putty Rd, or Thunderbolt's Way.
I was at the Eurolantic Challenge (became the WSBK) at Brands Hatch in 1988 and saw the Nortons run.
I seem to remember they were fucking loud[8D]
Also saw Rocket Ron and himself
the JPS nortons that robert dunlop rode in 89/90 iom and northwest 200 along with other irish road races have to have been the best bikes ever built.
Yeah I agree
good point ..i guess my interest is borne out of patriotism,and frustration at an industry that i enjoyed being part of i still consider had/has a lot to offer...having said that i have a great deal of respect for the japanese motor industry and what they ve acheived in the last 50 yrs.quote:Originally posted by chalk10
Personally I'd rather see Triumph back on the track, competitively. As I said earlier they are producing real world bikes, not exotica ala the current and former Norton Rotaries.
If I was into race track specials I wouldn't be here, I'd be off chatting to the newbies, wannabe's and just plain twats on OSB.
I woulda thought much the same with you Franken, let's face it our choice of machines will never be seen on race tracks again (except for granddad racing) but with our personal attention they are competitive machines out along the Putty Rd, or Thunderbolt's Way.
2 things that impress me about them
first the word for copy and the word for learn are the same word in their language,secondly throughout their culture they master the known quantities of a given subject till they are second nature then improve and develop them..
what frustrates me about western culture, british in particularm,is that we have the same drive and innovative minds yet getting backing for these ideas is virtually impossible i site these previously ridiculed examples,,the wind up radio,dyson vacuum cleaners,or less modern the telephone ,television etc
i ride the bike i ride because its grass roots and has character its not sterile in my mind but has scope for improvement,its cheap and spares are relativly common,[8D]
if i was into cars id be driving an old MG or TRIUMPH yes these can be outrun by a modern hatchback but that for me is not what its all about.
ill shut up now ranting on
From what I can remember from the time the Norton rotarys were racing, there was a serious question about what the engine capacity was. Depending on where the rotor is it gives different engine capacities. This was the arguement used against Norton with the regulators by other competitors.
The larger capacity within the engine was outside the allowable for the race series. The arguement about which capacity should be used or how it should be measured in the rotary engine went on for months !
Whether that was what excluded them from racing I cannot remember.
But the capacity issue was debated very heatedly.
Alongside the new Norton in the photos are just about all of the Norton race bikes.
The location is the National Motorcycle Museum in Birmingham UK,
where I go at least 1/2 a dozen times each year to stare and often reflect at what we have lost over the years.
My Father who died last year was a Director for James and later Velocette in Birmingham up until 1960 when the British motorcycle industry was drawings its final breaths. He was offered a Directorship of the ACU at the time but rejected it as it meant relocating to the south east of England which he didnt want to do.
We made 90% of the worlds motorcycles in those years, Birmingham was the motorcycle capital of the world !!
And yes I`m a Brummie lad and a true Brit.... chuffing proud of it.
My old Dad who was still riding a 1955 Vincent the year he passed on knew what killed the British bike industry and no it wasnt "just" the influx of the new Japanese bikes..... it was the industries failure to invest in its own industry and its own product.
Too little too late.
Which has been the ongoing theme for British industry for the last 40 years resulting in the crap we have now.
I remember the last Meriden Triumphs in about 1977 and they were utter rubbish.
If it wasnt for one mans dream "John Bloor" Triumph would never ever be what it is today. God bless that man !!!!
I will have a new Triumph because its a Triumph. No matter if half of it is made around the world (as all cars and bikes) I will still own and ride one with fugging pride ! Because its British.
Speed Triple please ?
The Norton rotaries were never excluded from racing except in the US. The capacity of 588 was accepted by the Police, Insurance companies, the DVLA and the ACU. I'm not quite sure what you mean about them being excluded, from what ? There was debate about their capacity but it never stopped them being raced.
The problem of lack of interest in a new product is seemingly universal, we are constantly hearing about new Aussie inventions but no-one in this country gets behind them. I'm not sure if that applied to the Dyson in the UK, James Dyson built a factory and made them in the UK.
I too am very proud to be English, I know some on here aren't but I see that as their problem really not mine
HOS, don't have a Triumph BECAUSE it's a Triumph, have one because they are a bloody good bike at least as good as the generic stuff.
i believe dyson asked for a development grant and got turned down and the banks wernt interested hoover were willing to develop his idea but only if he signed over the copyright to it he had to mortgage himself to the hilt to get it off the ground.
i worked as a fitter at ford in dagenham in the 80's because evryone told me if i did my exams and got a trade id be in work for life 2 years after i finished my apprenticeship i was laid off ..because our factory [which was built in 1906 ]could'nt keep up with the competition in Belguim . we wer told we had to produce 1100 cars a day but the stampin plant that i looked after was still using converted steam presses from 1911 to stamp panels for sierras.
Dyson took up UK Government financial help and EU financial help to set up his company and build a factory here in UK.quote:Originally posted by Spondonash
The Norton rotaries were never excluded from racing except in the US. The capacity of 588 was accepted by the Police, Insurance companies, the DVLA and the ACU. I'm not quite sure what you mean about them being excluded, from what ? There was debate about their capacity but it never stopped them being raced.
The problem of lack of interest in a new product is seemingly universal, we are constantly hearing about new Aussie inventions but no-one in this country gets behind them. I'm not sure if that applied to the Dyson in the UK, James Dyson built a factory and made them in the UK.
I too am very proud to be English, I know some on here aren't but I see that as their problem really not mine
HOS, don't have a Triumph BECAUSE it's a Triumph, have one because they are a bloody good bike at least as good as the generic stuff.
When it was up and running he then moved all the production to the east becauase it could be manufactured using cheap labour. Lots of people lost their jobs and livelihoods in the name of profit.
None of the money was given back used to pay for setting up the company.
I will never buy and Dyson product for that reason.
The Nortons were excluded from racing on the capacity grounds I thought ? It was a long time ago and my memory isnt brilliant.
I never owned a Triumph as when I started biking when the last of the Meriden Triumphs were spewing out. I want a new one from the heritage angle as well as the fact they mnake bloody awesome bikes.
I grew up with Brit bikers in the 70s when Jap bikes were Japcrap or Rice Burners. My Jap bike sounded like a sewing machine in their ears.
A great time when bikers wore black leather jackets, blue jeans and black steelers, dirty hands and black under their finger nails. They stank of oil, carried weapons and drank like bastads...... when the town I lived in was owned by the Outlaws. Both sides of the main street were lined with bikes every weekend, instead of the shopping bimbo 4 x 4s and parking meters we have now..
Nothing against Triumph.quote:I never owned a Triumph as when I started biking when the last of the Meriden Triumphs were spewing out.
I want a new one from the heritage angle as well as the fact they mnake bloody awesome bikes.
If thats your thing, Great, go for it !
...but could someone explain the "Heritage angle" to me ?
I think buying a name on a bit of paper, and building a totaly
new product, however great, has little History or Heritage.
To me Triumph reputation started when the 1st bike rolled out of
the Hinkley factory. I see no links to Meriden other that Marketing
a product in the same way as the new Mini and VW Beetle.
They may have a great product, but "Heritage"........
Feel free to shoot me down
For me, by virtue of the fact that it still carries the Triumph name and badge and stays loyal (to a degree) to the Triumph style and ideals of old.quote:Originally posted by Tony Nitrous
Nothing against Triumph.quote:I never owned a Triumph as when I started biking when the last of the Meriden Triumphs were spewing out.
I want a new one from the heritage angle as well as the fact they mnake bloody awesome bikes.
If thats your thing, Great, go for it !
...but could someone explain the "Heritage angle" to me ?
I think buying a name on a bit of paper, and building a totaly
new product, however great, has little History or Heritage.
To me Triumph reputation started when the 1st bike rolled out of
the Hinkley factory. I see no links to Meriden other that Marketing
a product in the same way as the new Mini and VW Beetle.
They may have a great product, but "Heritage"....
Feel free to shoot me down
I am very much aware that the new bikes bear little technical/design relation to the old.
But in spirit they do !
The heritage lives on... The new Bonnie and the Thruxton !
All the new Triumphs pay homage to their past in one way or another.
Even the new bikes like the Speed Triple, Speed Four, Daytona 675 and 955 stay loyal to Triumphs concept of building brilliantly handling bikes with "riders" in mind.
There is very little left here thats still clinging onto being British. For Triumph to take on the best Japanese manufacturers and beat them at their own game, for me is 100% brilliant.
If Triumph ever move their manufacturing abroad as they have talked about over recent years, I think for me and many others loyal to the Triumph name, we would finally lose that respect and faithfullness to the name.
I think it would lose its essential Britishness if it was no longer built here in England. I think that would be a very very costly mistake for the current Triumph management.
Heres another potentially great Norton that bit the dust recently...
why I do`nt know....
with u HOS truimph stands alone where all the rest died names like ..matchless ajs vincent[could teach the yanks how to build fast v twins]ariel bsa scott silk norton etc
and the cars are the same rolls royce [ironically the firm that built the engine for the spitfire is now owned by the germans] aston martin,lotus,jaguar,hillman ,humber,mg,triumph,austin healey,jenson,rover all criminally mismanaged all showed tremendous potentisl...people still want hand built stuff and they ll pay premiums for it we should ve stuck to what we know build high quality hand built cars and bikes built by people who love their job ,built by proper craftsmen.
but of course the tradesmen have gone moved away ..sick of an engineering industry run by accountants
i really will shut up now:}
Triumph was originaly established by two Germans,quote:Originally posted by frankenbiker
[ironically the firm that built the engine for the spitfire is now owned by the germans]
Mauritz Shulte and Siegfried Bettmann who moved from
Nuremberg to Coventry. They original produced bicycle's
before adding a Belgian made engine.
So at least you know who to thank.
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