Money Wasted? (Spondon-Martek debate...)

[Deano]

i wouldn't call buying what you want waste of money.
alot of people, me included by things on a want basis and not a need.

I didn't need to change the motor from 750 to 1100 but i WANTED to
I may be only using 20-30% of my bike capability but that dosn't stop me from wanting more power.

What i cant understand is the price of slightly unique parts in australia like billet triples, wave discs etc.
How is it that a set of Galfer wave disc can be purchased from a UK based reseller for my 7/11 for 153pounds ex VAT (about $336aud) plus postage yet to buy a pair of similar discs in Australia form a supplier will be starting at about $800?

I understand that these companies/manufactures have to make a profit but with the internet as popular as it is and international frieght been quite reasonalbe these companies have to remember that the world ain't as big as it used to be.

most of you probably saw my thread about a new exhaust i am after. I can buy a full stainless system from the UK in Micron brand frieghted to my door for about $840 depending on the exchange rate of the day.
A similar system in australia in Remus brand $1200. I relise i am comparing 2 different brands but is the remus exhaust 50% better than the micron?

After looking at ebay US i can buy a brand new yoshi tri oval can in stainless for $278usd plus postage(about $361AUD) yet when i ring up the local bike shop they quote me $950 just for a bolt on can.
THEY CANT BE SERIOUS

I like to surport those who support us and will give local suppliers the first right of refusal, but for what price?

just my opinion

Agreed Deano, and if you want to see the worst of that, come to Canberra. Most of the bike dealers around here provide either shite work, or shite prices, or both.

The local Kwaka dealer charges like a wounded bull for parts, and they NEVER have them EVER. In 15+ years of using the local dealer they have never once had anything in stock, not once. But they charge you for carrying the stock.

From now on I will only buy Kwaka bits over the internet (or from the local Suzuki dealership, who have more parts to fit my bike than the Kwaka dealer). It's more convenient (don't have to drive 15 minutes to get there), it's cheaper, it's FASTER, and they deliver to MY door, I don't have to go back out and pick them up. It's nothing but a piss-off waste of my time to bother with Canberra Motorcycle Centre (Plus they're a H#nda dealer [V])

And my next bike will definitely be a Suzuki!!!! []

[suxukifreak]

I just bought a fork brace from the UK for 99 pound which was cool [8D] but the postage was 60 pound which was a bit over the top [V] but got to my front door in 7 days.

[qickdraw]

I'm with Ben, Tony, Chop etc on this one - buying/owning a SponHarMarPolyHeart has nothing to do with $$$$. It's about WHAT YOU WANT.
And the other bit about the swingarm - well the swingarm you'll have to take up with Easyrider imports but I can tell you make virtuall fuck-all $$ from selling a MetMachEx simply because I know that if I was to charge $1800 no-one would buy them! And I wouldn't blame them, either! So I'd rather make less just to see a quality product introduced into the country. (The wife'll kill me if she reads this!!). I'll make my $$ from the other 5 products the guy buys from me with the 'arm, or from his mates who he recommended me to...
The triple tree's - well I guess you'll have to ask Ben how much a lump of billet is and how many hours are spent making a one-off set. What's the hourly rate on that?

[chopaweeza]

Yes, I do know what it costs to make triple trees. Australia is the worlds largest producer of Bauxite(the ore Aluminium is made from) but it does not manufacture it's our T6 or Aircraft Spec Aluminium. 5 years ago I could make a set for $250 and covermy labour cost for it. Now the billet for a set is over $400 IF you can find it. Add to that the time required, tooling costs, design time and the stem cost. A right pain in the bum. An amatuer with a decent garage can make a set in about 20 hours and someone experienced alot less depending on the tools available. It's a shitload cheaper to build out of billet steel & Chrome/Powdercoat but it just isn't the same. It's a sad fact that it's often cheaper to buy a manufactured item like Quikdraws top yolks than it is to build them..... I don't build them for anyone but myself anymore for that reason alone as I'd have to charge more than they could buy it off the shelf to justify the labour involved.

[Tony Nitrous]

quote:Originally posted by qickdraw


And the other bit about the swingarm - well the swingarm you'll have to take up with Easyrider imports

All price's quoted were through JMC's own website
that calculates price / spec / country.
https://www.swingarm.com/online_shop.aspx
Maybe an imported could give a slight discount if
he's getting a good deal at "trade". Unlikely from
what you say about MetMachEx's prices.

You right Ozkat, you did stir up a hornets nest.
Well done mate, Some interesting posts and opinions.
If we all thought the same we wouldnt be building Fighters,
we'd all have stock SV/Bandit/CBR600 or similar.

[qickdraw]

quote:Originally posted by chopaweeza

Yes, I do know what it costs to make triple trees. Australia is the worlds largest producer of Bauxite(the ore Aluminium is made from) but it does not manufacture it's our T6 or Aircraft Spec Aluminium. 5 years ago I could make a set for $250 and covermy labour cost for it. Now the billet for a set is over $400 IF you can find it. Add to that the time required, tooling costs, design time and the stem cost. A right pain in the bum. An amatuer with a decent garage can make a set in about 20 hours and someone experienced alot less depending on the tools available. It's a shitload cheaper to build out of billet steel & Chrome/Powdercoat but it just isn't the same. It's a sad fact that it's often cheaper to buy a manufactured item like Quikdraws top yolks than it is to build them..... I don't build them for anyone but myself anymore for that reason alone as I'd have to charge more than they could buy it off the shelf to justify the labour involved.

That's exactly what I mean - it's not cheap these days at all. That's exactly why JMC/MetMachEx etc is so exe to buy too. The 'trade' discount is crap beacause their material costs are so high. This means that for them to sell even direct from the factory they can only stick a minimal profit margin on it (thus relying on quantity of sales). This means that they can't afford to give any real 'trade' price to anyone - it doesn't matter if you buy 1 or 100.
So for any importer who is serious & trying to make a living from his/her business to make it work they need to stick an unrealistic price on it.
Having said that JMC do have a larger trade discount than Met - but that is because their retail is inflated in the first place.. $1800ish against $1500ish for a very similar product.

[ozkat]

just did a quote with JMC GS1000 arm (didnt have Katana listed) unpolished, 150mm chain adjusters,with under brace, to suit 180/55/17 $1000AU thats getting very close to what i would be prepared to pay. Can Meta better that?

[Tony Nitrous]

quote:Originally posted by ozkat

just did a quote with JMC GS1000 arm (didnt have Katana listed) unpolished, 150mm chain adjusters,with under brace, to suit 180/55/17 $1000AU thats getting very close to what i would be prepared to pay. Can Meta better that?

They do list "GSX1100" although I thought it would have been similar.
I have sent arms back to JMC to have concentrics chopped off and changed to drag adjusters, also had shoch mounts moved, chain guard mounts fitted etc. Never had a drama.
In the UK with the guys I knew, with swingarms,
it always seemed to be,
1st Spondon / Martek / Harris...$$$$'s
2nd JMC, very good, Top product / lots of options, not cheap.
3rd MetmachEx, Still good, but never seemed to have popularity.
Nothing against Metmachex, I know guys who are more than happy with them. Nothing against them myself. Perhaps im suffering from "Brand Name Brain Washing"

Tony.J.

How much for a MetMachEx arm...
Busa, 6"-150mm drag sliders, Top bottom MEGA braced,
Takes standard wheel / tyre size,
Mirror polished, chain guard mounts, posted to AU ?
JMC $ 1295
Met $ ????

Tony.J.

[cammy9r]

$10,000 for a frame fook me! i thought. Then i did a currency convert and that works out to be £4,228.73 GBP (still a shit load of money). Don't hate me for this, but i don't really like the spondons; looks like polished scaffold tubes to me although i do respect the engineering and quality of them. Would take years of training/practice before i could get anywhere near as good as them not to mention the cost of the machines- bending/shaping, welding and finishing. So i'm sure there worth the money and as Gix said it's not a waste if you want it.
Perhaps we should concentrate on building bikes with little frame visible, i think these look good and your $10,000 could get invested in this. But we all have our own views and bank balances


P.S no fekkin idea what that bike is just thought it was [8D]

[dRRew]

this is an awesome thread, all the different opinions and wise speeches and expressions. far out im watching the progress and its great.

Hey QuickDraw, were you the one looking at bringing in the Bandit (or such like) helmets?

Corey at Joe's in CBR (listed in parts pages) is interested, if you want to give him a bell.

And dRRew, have you been taking happy drugs again? you're sounding like the bloke from Demtel there mate.

(And just because I'm writing this at work doesn't mean that I'm not in that other state we discussed earlier)

[Frankie]

Hi Lads,
well... where do I start.
In Feb. 04 I bought a new Tuono. On the road, aftermarket pipe ect. $ 25.000! After 7000Km oil in coolant. Engine pulled apart and so on O.k. 2.500Km later, same thing. Aprilia Australia and Rick Gill Motorcycle in Perth are pulling my dick. Sold the f^%$$g Aprilia for $15.000. $10.000 loss in ten months. Now, thats money wasted.

To me they are no good handling v twins around except the Italians, (don't tell me about the Buells or Monsters for that matter. KTM??). Frank and Italian bike? No way. If I think how much the mates spend on keeping their Ducatis running. (I do not have a car. I ride everyday). A mates 996 fell over.... almost $6.000 damage!!!
The bike industry does not supply my need for a good handling, reliable, reasonable cheap -to- run- bike, fact.
What to do? Build me own! When you do things, you do them right. I build this bike for under $30.000,( would have been much cheaper if I already had a donor bike). About the same as a new Aprilia, Ducati or R1 SP would cost! Why do people by the SP's? Do they really need the Ohlins and Slipper Clutch, when they are not racing?

Would anyone in this forum think I'll lose $10.000 in the first ten months on a Spondon??

Fact, I really don't give a damn on what "other people" think what I am riding. I am 45 next month, I am no boy racer no more!

You ride whatever bike, like Bandit or GSXR or R1 you name it. It will be only "another" of whatever. The following Year one gets another of whatever, because the new one has 2.5 bhp more. No disrespect, though I 've done it myself often enough! A Spondon, however, will be always a Spondon.

I am working in a remote Iron Ore Mine, 14 Days straight, 12 Hrs. a day. Why? Because I choose to. I am no rich guy, I am "only" a Tradesmen. But I choose to work in the bush in 48 C. It is no good to me to say this is to expensive or the exchange rate is down. Why can I afford a Spondon? Because I want one bad enough. Why do I want one that bad? Because I really had a ball on that Tuono. No inline four could give me that. O.K. thats very personal, but so is the Spondon. Bonus, I build the bike the way I want it!

You seem to forget that you compare Apples with Bananas. How can you compare the cost of a production frame to a custom? My frame is build No.4. All hand made. Do you realise it takes over a week for one guy to build the frame? The tank, hand made.
Secondly, have a look at the welds on a Spondon and then check out a jap frame.... Thirdly, Spondons won Isle of Man Races, GP Races, British Superbikes and what not in the sixtys already (like Harries by the way). There is a lot of knowledge about the geometry, stiffness ect. One can not just start up his own buiseness and start making good bike frames. Besides, there is a real wheight saving.

If I start modifying a new standard SV or TL, I may as well build a Spondon. I spend $6.500 on me Fazer. I still get only market value. Thats why it will be always just a SV or TL. You see where I am coming from?

Another one: You Fellows obviously don't know who and how the Marteks where build. If you would, then you would not make statements like "I like the Marteks better." I can tell you the story later, if you want.

@cammy9r: The bike picture is a PPS/ Rau. Build in Germany since the 80's. You get a complete second hand bike for 10.000 Euros. Excellent build quality. If you serious, let me know. Again, these are custom bikes, to a price of a new jap!
Here coupla links from dealers in Germany. Just have a look. You'll get the idea....
http://www.sr-bikesandparts.de/page1/indeger.html
http://ms-bikes.de/navigation/index.htm


@ozkat. Thanks for bringing this up. I got a view things of me chest. I sincerely hope that no one feels disrespected. Still, it is only my humble opinion.

'til next time
Frankie

P.S
The Pricelist: http://www.spondonengineering.co.uk/prices.htm

[Frankie]

Hi Lads,
well... where do I start.
In Feb. 04 I bought a new Tuono. On the road, aftermarket pipe ect. $ 25.000! After 7000Km oil in coolant. Engine pulled apart and so on O.k. 2.500Km later, same thing. Aprilia Australia and Rick Gill Motorcycle in Perth are pulling my dick. Sold the f^%$$g Aprilia for $15.000. $10.000 loss in ten months. Now, thats money wasted.

To me they are no good handling v twins around except the Italians, (don't tell me about the Buells or Monsters for that matter. KTM??). Frank and Italian bike? No way. If I think how much the mates spend on keeping their Ducatis running. (I do not have a car. I ride everyday). A mates 996 fell over.... almost $6.000 damage!!!
The bike industry does not supply my need for a good handling, reliable, reasonable cheap -to- run- bike, fact.
What to do? Build me own! When you do things, you do them right. I build this bike for under $30.000,( would have been much cheaper if I already had a donor bike). About the same as a new Aprilia, Ducati or R1 SP would cost! Why do people by the SP's? Do they really need the Ohlins and Slipper Clutch, when they are not racing?

Would anyone in this forum think I'll lose $10.000 in the first ten months on a Spondon??

Fact, I really don't give a damn on what "other people" think what I am riding. I am 45 next month, I am no boy racer no more!

You ride whatever bike, like Bandit or GSXR or R1 you name it. It will be only "another" of whatever. The following Year one gets another of whatever, because the new one has 2.5 bhp more. No disrespect, though I 've done it myself often enough! A Spondon, however, will be always a Spondon.

I am working in a remote Iron Ore Mine, 14 Days straight, 12 Hrs. a day. Why? Because I choose to. I am no rich guy, I am "only" a Tradesmen. But I choose to work in the bush in 48 C. It is no good to me to say this is to expensive or the exchange rate is down. Why can I afford a Spondon? Because I want one bad enough. Why do I want one that bad? Because I really had a ball on that Tuono. No inline four could give me that. O.K. thats very personal, but so is the Spondon. Bonus, I build the bike the way I want it!

You seem to forget that you compare Apples with Bananas. How can you compare the cost of a production frame to a custom? My frame is build No.4. All hand made. Do you realise it takes over a week for one guy to build the frame? The tank, hand made.
Secondly, have a look at the welds on a Spondon and then check out a jap frame.... Thirdly, Spondons won Isle of Man Races, GP Races, British Superbikes and what not in the sixtys already (like Harries by the way). There is a lot of knowledge about the geometry, stiffness ect. One can not just start up his own buiseness and start making good bike frames. Besides, there is a real wheight saving.

If I start modifying a new standard SV or TL, I may as well build a Spondon. I spend $6.500 on me Fazer. I still get only market value. Thats why it will be always just a SV or TL. You see where I am coming from?

Another one: You Fellows obviously don't know who and how the Marteks where build. If you would, then you would not make statements like "I like the Marteks better." I can tell you the story later, if you want.

@cammy9r: The bike picture is a PPS/ Rau. Build in Germany since the 80's. You get a complete second hand bike for 10.000 Euros. Excellent build quality. If you serious, let me know. Again, these are custom bikes, to a price of a new jap!
Here coupla links from dealers in Germany. Just have a look. You'll get the idea....
http://www.sr-bikesandparts.de/page1/indeger.html
http://ms-bikes.de/navigation/index.htm


@ozkat. Thanks for bringing this up. I got a view things of me chest. I sincerely hope that no one feels disrespected. Still, it is only my humble opinion.

'til next time
Frankie

P.S
The Pricelist: http://www.spondonengineering.co.uk/prices.htm

[Gix11]

As I mentioned before on this topic, I'm with you all the way on your comments mate.

[Gix11]

As I mentioned before on this topic, I'm with you all the way on your comments mate.

[Frankie]

Hi Gix,
I realise that! You are one of the ones, who REALY understands..... Thanks for you support!
Have you read my comment about the expansion of the ASF community? Whaddaya think?

Frankie

[Frankie]

Hi Gix,
I realise that! You are one of the ones, who REALY understands..... Thanks for you support!
Have you read my comment about the expansion of the ASF community? Whaddaya think?

Frankie

[Gix11]

It sounds as though you speak from experience in a country that has a much longer love of Streetfighters. At the moment we are a minority, which makes it more interesting. I don't want to have to put a membership fee on this site but if it gets to the stage where we had to to lock out tools and maybe fund events then I guess we would have to. Advertising to nob heads, I guess, would bring a flood of unwanted shite and force that membership fee, so the less we do of that, the better I guess.

[Gix11]

It sounds as though you speak from experience in a country that has a much longer love of Streetfighters. At the moment we are a minority, which makes it more interesting. I don't want to have to put a membership fee on this site but if it gets to the stage where we had to to lock out tools and maybe fund events then I guess we would have to. Advertising to nob heads, I guess, would bring a flood of unwanted shite and force that membership fee, so the less we do of that, the better I guess.