Spondons are nice but there must be someone in this country who can build up a similar frame or swingarm for less $ given our crap exchange rate? Anyone know who might do it (pref in Sydney)?
Spondons are nice but there must be someone in this country who can build up a similar frame or swingarm for less $ given our crap exchange rate? Anyone know who might do it (pref in Sydney)?
Hmmm do seem to remember someone that makes 'em out of Chrome-Moly I think, and the ad was a ZX-9 one...
Know what you mean old chap, had alook at the spondons eeeeek$
Same with Harris and Moko (10,000 just for bare frame, but God they make a top fighter). Is Moto Martin still going do you know?
Ken MacIntosh (NZ) used to manufacture frames, anyone know if he's still around? He built some pretty tasty GSX11 based frame kits in the 80's, Bathurst winners etc.
There used to be a crew in Vic that could build to order, race bikes etc. They were known as the Hallam Bros(?)or some such like. If memory serves me correctly they built a very quick Harley based GP bike at one stage (I know, I know, that's impossible, but they are Aussie engineers)
Some of the 'Custom' specialists in Melbourne/Sydney/NSW north coast should be able to do the job or point you in the right direction.
I should imagine that the Spondon frame would be more difficult to replicate than the simpler chrome molloy tubing frames (ala MacIntosh/Harris)
Egli style frames (short top spine, with down tubes for a 'stressed member' engine mount, would actually be very easy for most engineering shops to manufacture to your specs.
PS our current exchange rate actually makes importing quite cheap, but they still charge OTFT prices.
There is/was a finished Spondon GSX1260, 147bhp V&M motor, USD forks, Gull arm, Taylor leads, Ohlins shock, Dyna coils, Flatslides, Stunning paint, polished alloy, PMF discs, Cammotion cams etc etc etc..... for sale in the UK.
Cost £12,000 / $30,000 to build,
Was for sale at £4575 / $11,437
Now at £4100 / $10,250.
Makes buying a frame look a bit expensive !!
I have been told importing such a toy is a hard work, if not impossible, but at that price it would be worth getting someone in the UK to break it and import it as a frame & parts 9if this is possible)
You can see similar prices on Harris / Martek / Steelheart / even a JMC (the Swingarm people) framed bike.
Just an idea.
Bringing a frame unit/kit into the country shouldn't be that much of an issue in most states yet, although NSW is cracking down on things like aftermarket exhausts.
It used to be the case in Aus that all you needed was an engineers certificate (the frame manufacturer will be able to provide the necessary info) for the frame, and I don't think it has changed much. It was easier if you changed just the frame on a registered bike, but I know of a number of people who built their own frames in the 80's/90's and were able to register completely new bikes without too many problems.
You may prefer to 'pre-register' it in another state if Qld has restricted the laws up there. Once you get rego in one state it's often much easier to get rego in 'retricted states'(one of the benefits of a federal/state system). Let me know if you want the local regs checked.
The deal sounds too good to let go of too easily.[]
But conversely, perhaps we could get a group together and commission a specific frame type from a local engineering firm, I'd be interested in that. I do like the Egli style single spar frames, and they shouldn't be that much as a commissioned batch run of say half a dozen frames.
MarkC
QUOTE: But conversely, perhaps we could get a group together and commission a specific frame type from a local engineering firm, I'd be interested in that. I do like the Egli style single spar frames, and they shouldn't be that much as a commissioned batch run of say half a dozen frames.
Spondon frames are Art!
Harris are up there too,
Martek were in the same league.
Yes, a local engineering frame could knock out a few frames, but I dont think we are talking the same league here!
Personal opinion only... I will buy my frame from a Frame maker not a guy who welds JCB buckets.
Im not bad-mouthing ozzie workmanship, I would love to see a JMC, Harris, Martek, Spondon, Steelheart down under, I just havent found one yet.
I would imagine the best folk to look to would be the guys who build the Harley / Chop / Trike frames. They have all the right kit and talk the right talk.
The basic principles really aren't that difficult, plus we have the advantage of being able to reference specs off existing frames.quote:Originally posted by Tony Nitrous
QUOTE: But conversely, perhaps we could get a group together and commission a specific frame type from a local engineering firm, I'd be interested in that. I do like the Egli style single spar frames, and they shouldn't be that much as a commissioned batch run of say half a dozen frames.
Spondon frames are Art!
Harris are up there too,
Martek were in the same league.
Yes, a local engineering frame could knock out a few frames, but I dont think we are talking the same league here!
Personal opinion only... I will buy my frame from a Frame maker not a guy who welds JCB buckets.
Im not bad-mouthing ozzie workmanship, I would love to see a JMC, Harris, Martek, Spondon, Steelheart down under, I just havent found one yet.
I would imagine the best folk to look to would be the guys who build the Harley / Chop / Trike frames. They have all the right kit and talk the right talk.
While you would want competent tradesmen doing the welding etc, there is a wealth of high quality tradesmen in this country. And half, or more, of the job is in setting up the jig.
The crew that built the V-twins over in WA built their own chassis I believe, Macintosh (just as good as the Europeans) in NZ, Britten in NZ built his own frames. There is more than enough talent in Australia to replicate anything that the Europeans do. Oh and Phil Irving, an Australian, taught one of England's greatest bike companies, HRD Vincent, a thing or two.
The ones that I saw were actually crafted at the workshops of ANU and the RAAF, and were top quality. I think you are giving Spondon et al a little too much praise, they are good, very good in fact, but we can easily do the same.
And let's face it, what we want, essentially, is function over form, yet the European manufacturers price their stuff as if they were Parisian Fashion whores, ie a bloody fancy rip off. $10,000 for a basic frame, come on.
But of course when it comes down to it, everybody goes their own way when building street fighters, including frames.
Hope you get what you want anyway
MarkC
Function over form? With function comes form! Well that's what I think anyway!
Just out of interest how do Spondons/Harris/Martek/etc etc frames actually perform? How much lighter than say a 750 slingshot frame are they? Rigidity? Do they actually handle? If you changed the frame and frame only, how much performance cornering wise do you gain (or lose!)???
Sorry since I've never ridden one, and only heard about them in magazines and web forums, I've got no idea!
Wot about opera chicks then?quote:Originally posted by J7-11
Function over form? With function comes form! Well that's what I think anyway!
Just out of interest how do Spondons/Harris/Martek/etc etc frames actually perform? How much lighter than say a 750 slingshot frame are they? Rigidity? Do they actually handle? If you changed the frame and frame only, how much performance cornering wise do you gain (or lose!)???
Sorry since I've never ridden one, and only heard about them in magazines and web forums, I've got no idea!
They can sing (function), but jesus christ mate, what ugly form.
Rough guide: (concerning road bikes)
During the late 70's/80's the after market frame industry was primarily known for the rigidity of their frames. The standard Japanese offering was a shocker, rubber banded 'widow makers'. And the European frames (Norton etc) were never able to handle the power of the big jap 4's. Even the guys running European bikes were after 'better than factory' frames.
Manufacturers such as Harris/Egli/Bimota et al, offered a frame which was capable of keeping the front and rear wheels in line with the engine. They also offered such 'exotica' as adjustable steering head angles, adjustable swing arms, compact sizes, single sided swing arms, racer styling, light weight etc.
As the Japanese offerings improved during the late 80's and 90's the after market manufacturers had to offer more than just a rigid frame, which the Jap and Euro manufacturers were supplying stock, and some moved into advanced developments and others moved more into 'crafting' beautiful frames.
The improvements in Japanese handling owe an awful lot to the development work doen by these after market manufacturers
Any more and you'll have to find someone who knows what they are talking about.
You do gain some performance cornering wise, depending on year of donor bike, due to the fact that the bikes don't tend to 'flex' through corners, thereby allowing the rider to push the bike harder, with more confidence.
Actual ground clearance is determined by the particular frame/suspension combinations on each bike.
MarkC
I would be suprised to see any aftermarket frame better an 05 Jap sports bike, if it did it would be wasted on 99.9% of riders anyway.
I think the term 'crafting' beautiful frames.
is nearer to the point.
If anyone can knock out "Spondon replica's" (Martek did,and went broke doing it!) for less than the Standard $10,000 price (thats with tank, swinger and Ohlins isn't it ?) to the same standard as Spondon, they should be making a lot of money.
As 1 member on this list owns 3 spondons and a Harris im suprised he has not joined in ?
He is either biting his lip or not seen these posts LOL
Yes it is time to enter the fray Tony
A basic Spondon frame kit costs somewhere in the region of £4000 which given our shocking exchange rate does equate to around $10000 for a frame, swinging arm, Ohlins shock, rearsets, all brackets, headlight brackets, beautiful hand made alloy tank. You really do get what you pay for.
To answer a few questions or statements first, the mob making Vtwins in WA have their frames made by Over in Japan and were designed by an Englishman, The Britten didn't have a frame.
I really don't think it is possible to give Spondon too much praise to be honest. I have yet to see a frame from anywhere in the world to get close to the quality except maybe Over from Japan.
By the way our current exchange rate makes importing VERY expensive not cheap that is why the frame kits seem that expensive, they are quite affordable in the UK.
The engineers at Spondon can do welds that would put a machine to shame, they are craftsmen. I might start to believe someone here could do a similar job if I could see some proof.
I did see a frame built by someone in Sydney (?) which was around $5000, a very basic steel lattice type frame, just a frame nothing else.
Time to put down the rose tinted glasses and accept the reality I'm afraid until I see actual metal in front of me not just some guys saying we should be able to.
I did say that the Japanese offerings were just as good in the 90's.quote:Originally posted by Tony Nitrous
I would be suprised to see any aftermarket frame better an 05 Jap sports bike, if it did it would be wasted on 99.9% of riders anyway.
I think the term 'crafting' beautiful frames.
is nearer to the point.
If anyone can knock out "Spondon replica's" (Martek did,and went broke doing it!) for less than the Standard $10,000 price (thats with tank, swinger and Ohlins isn't it ?) to the same standard as Spondon, they should be making a lot of money.
As 1 member on this list owns 3 spondons and a Harris im suprised he has not joined in ?
He is either biting his lip or not seen these posts LOL
I also did say that the spondons would be more difficult than the much cheaper Egli single spar style designs, which are my stated preference. And I have only been talking about basic frames (including swing-arm, no tank or shock)
Martek also had to deal with commercial issues which wouldn't be an issue in this case.
They are there for profits, we ain't.
They have to maintain a business entity, ie shopfront, staff, factory, stock on hand, machinery etc etc etc. We don't, we order just what we have paid-up buyers for.
Spondon/Martek had to pay for their own development, have certain copyright considerations, etc. As private builders we don't have any of these problems, we can create a jig off a current example for next to nothing.
The chrome molly frames that were constructed in Canberra in the 80's actually cost their builders a fraction of what the commercial builders were asking. Admittedly they had access to great workshops, did the work themselves etc. But there is no reason why we couldn't keep prices down by doing as much of the work ourselves/through friends.
It was suggested as a way of bypassing a lot of the 'import problems' that you were concerned about.
MarkC
Yes I think it is perfectly possible to build a basic steel frame that would accept a multitude of swinging arms, off the shelf petrol tanks etc but they would hardly be in the Spondon class which is fine if all you want is a "different" frame. No-one nowadays buys a Spondon frame for an R1 or a Fairyblade and expects it to be a better handling bike than the original, they buy the Spondon for the reason I did, because it's different and a piece of mobile art which is something your run of the mill Jap bike will never be.
I know of a bloke down here in Brisbane that is more than willing to build me a frame, steel, trellis ala Ducati, he has done them before and knows what he is doing but if/when I get him to do it I wont be expecting a Spondon or Harris but it will be a one off,
Maybe we should see how many people would be interested and get him doing a couple ?
Spondons are nice !!!! Now there is an understatement if ever I saw one
quote:Originally posted by speeddemon
Spondons are nice but there must be someone in this country who can build up a similar frame or swingarm for less $ given our crap exchange rate? Anyone know who might do it (pref in Sydney)?
I know someone that wants a trellis frame for his Hunda 600RR... how much are we talking?
Well actually I have seen the evidence in front of me. produced here in Australia.quote:Originally posted by Spondonash
Yes it is time to enter the fray Tony
A basic Spondon frame kit costs somewhere in the region of £4000 which given our shocking exchange rate does equate to around $10000 for a frame, swinging arm, Ohlins shock, rearsets, all brackets, headlight brackets, beautiful hand made alloy tank. You really do get what you pay for.
To answer a few questions or statements first, the mob making Vtwins in WA have their frames made by Over in Japan and were designed by an Englishman, The Britten didn't have a frame.
I really don't think it is possible to give Spondon too much praise to be honest. I have yet to see a frame from anywhere in the world to get close to the quality except maybe Over from Japan.
By the way our current exchange rate makes importing VERY expensive not cheap that is why the frame kits seem that expensive, they are quite affordable in the UK.
The engineers at Spondon can do welds that would put a machine to shame, they are craftsmen. I might start to believe someone here could do a similar job if I could see some proof.
I did see a frame built by someone in Sydney (?) which was around $5000, a very basic steel lattice type frame, just a frame nothing else.
Time to put down the rose tinted glasses and accept the reality I'm afraid until I see actual metal in front of me not just some guys saying we should be able to.
Also there's a guy in NZ who did his his panel-beating apprenticeship under a guy who trained at the Rolls-Royce factory. Frenchmen now ship early Citroens and the like to him for re-building.
The skills in Australia (&NZ) are just as good as England, some of them were even trained by the best that England has to offer. Perhaps people should take a fresh look at what's available in their own back yard, especially us immigrants.
The Britten did have a frame, it used the engine as a stressed member. Do you think that the front forks, swing-arm, seat etc just floated in mid-air. The frame was minimalist to the extreme, as averse to Spondons, which are 'pretty' to the extreme, but actually provide no better rigidity/handling than a simple steel lattice frame.
According to the Vee-two home page they produce their own frames on site
http://www.veetwo.com.au/mainpages/g...spx?id=aboutus
you can take the rest of that discussion up with them. You might want to check out all the other superior world-beating engineering they do.
You didn't even address MacIntosh.
And what about Terry Prince? Try and tell him that Spondons are a superior frame to his products.
http://www.classicmotorbikes.com.au/
The Spondons may be 'good on the eye', but from a 'purity of function' perspective they are 'over engineered'. The same functionality can be obtained with a much simpler/efficient design.
What ever you decide to wrap around your own engine is your own decision. As custom builders that's what it is all about. I was just suggesting possible solutions to the original query.
But, personally, I think that you are behaving like ignorant little pricks, slagging off Aus engineering just because it isn't as pretty as you're favoured manufacturer. Especially since you obviously haven't bothered to have a look at what is going on in this country.
Oh and Australian companies/institutions are amongst the world's very best when it comes to metal technologies, ie BHP, CSIRO.
MarkC
PS If I wanted a bike because it looked pretty, I'd buy an Aprillia and shave my legs.
quote:Originally posted by Spondonash
I know of a bloke down here in Brisbane that is more than willing to build me a frame, steel, trellis ala Ducati, he has done them before and knows what he is doing but if/when I get him to do it I wont be expecting a Spondon or Harris but it will be a one off,
Maybe we should see how many people would be interested and get him doing a couple ?
Aaaahhhh.............Isn't this what I was suggesting in the first place?[^]
Im quite sure I know a lot LESS than you guys about frames,
But....
Yes, Egli were top class a few years ago with spine frames, but havent Triumph (1st of the new breed) and Kawasaki (GPZ900) already gone down that road and moved on to better things?
What you get when you buy Spondon frames is more than some welded tubes. You get Spondons name, history, quality and a big chuck of class. Why do Ford Ute's outsell Mazda? They are the bloody same!
If you want a simpler steel frame Harris Magnums are still available.
As Ash will confirm I am a very Un-patriotic Pom, If i never set foot in the UK again thats fine by me, and I am a great fan of most things Australian, but Jeez, your not in the same league for Frames and Streetfighters...
QUOTE. But, personally, I think that you are behaving like ignorant little pricks, slagging off Aus engineering just because it isn't as pretty as you're favoured manufacturer. Especially since you obviously haven't bothered to have a look at what is going on in this country.
Im sorry, I must have missed the ad for High quality, good looking, alloy frame / Swinger / tank / shocker / etc made in OZ for less than $10,000!
I dont object to the price of a Spondon frame kit,
I object to the price of a Busa engine,
They're that bloody good, everyone want one!
I will run for cover now.....
So I will have no problems getting one of these knocked together in this "Land down under"
I honestly didn't notice much slagging off of Australian engineering, we Aussies are the best at everything, we are always telling ourselves
I think you have got the flag wrapped a little too tightly around your neck there chalk
This really isn't a pissing contest, Spondon make probably the best frames in the world, when you show me the alternative, wherever it is from, I will admit it.
You really don't have to tell me that we do everything better here, the media tell me that but just admit what is so obvious, that's all I say
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