Criminalised ?

**StuNVA** · 07-07-2010, 06:17 PM

We have enough laws, we just need a non corrupt Police Force to enforce them.

Really who gives a toss if they bend the law a little to rid out street of a drug dealer or some other form of scum, but to take away someones civil rights because of association is not what I signed up for.

We don't need a law that allows the police to prosecute a minority by association, that is dictatorial bullshit.

If the law was passed I bet it wouldn't even include the words Hells Angles, thus martial law is but a phone call away.

If you think making the club illegal will fix the problem you are seriously deluded.

These problems will exist as long as man kind exists, if it's not the "bikie clubs" it'll be the "triads" or the "mafia" or some other bloody group supplying the shit the dead heads use. As harsh as it sounds I agree with the Natural Selection theory, legalise it, tax it, and let the knob heads cure demand by over dosing. These drug "power houses" would go broke overnight.

**sharky** · 07-07-2010, 06:20 PM

quote:Then why the rigorous selection process Sharky

To be sure the new member was trust worthy and dedicated to supporting the club...much the same as I can't just walk onto a ship and say I'm in the navy now...
There is a selection process...there are lots that don't make the grade and get told politely to go away....
There are many rules in the clubs that are upheld a lot mor strictly than the laws of this land...
One that stands out (in the club I was in) was that any one caught using heroin would be instantly kicked out and never associated with again. This was because the drug would control you and you could not be trusted.

**Redmohawk** · 07-07-2010, 06:20 PM

JackTar simple, they don't have internet hero's to keep there group honast lol

**sharky** · 07-07-2010, 06:29 PM

Lets just imagine for a minute that overnight all the bikie clubs disappeared...
Would all drug manufacturing and supplying suddenly stop ?
Or would another group(triad,mafia,etc) step in and fill the gap in the supply/demand chain....
In Canada after a huge, and expensive operation they police took down the top members of a large club...2 years later and they are stronger than ever...and business is booming..
Even the undercover cop admitted it wasn't worth the cost (financially to the tax payers and personally to him).

**JackTar** · 07-07-2010, 06:32 PM

quote:Originally posted by sharky

quote:Then why the rigorous selection process Sharky

To be sure the new member was trust worthy and dedicated to supporting the club...much the same as I can't just walk onto a ship and say I'm in the navy now...
There is a selection process...there are lots that don't make the grade and get told politely to go away....
There are many rules in the clubs that are upheld a lot mor strictly than the laws of this land...
One that stands out (in the club I was in) was that any one caught using heroin would be instantly kicked out and never associated with again. This was because the drug would control you and you could not be trusted.

I'm not too sure why I need to be trustworthy to go for a ride with some mates, whereas I think I probably do have to be in order to protect the country and its interests.

Why would you have to 'make the grade' just to hang out with some like minded individuals unless of course said like minded individuals had to make sure you weren't going to tell someone about their illegal activities and how they get away with them?

As for heroin well I'm pretty sure it is common knowledge that dealers of hard drugs don't do the drugs themselves because they see what it does to the people they give them to.

As for the police being currupt well I'm not denying that some are however I beleive that the majority of police are upholding the law and doing more good than bad, I doubt the same could be said for any patch club.

I am not for a second saying that these laws are right or that they even need to exist, I just think that if we beleive patch clubs are just a bunch of blokes that like to ride, drink and play poker with each other we need to wake the fuck up.

**Dick** · 07-07-2010, 06:32 PM

JackTar I agree that the two issues are apples and oranges. My point is, prosecute the wheelies and speeding, or the murder and drug dealing. Not the club membership.

**JackTar** · 07-07-2010, 06:33 PM

quote:Originally posted by sharky

Lets just imagine for a minute that overnight all the bikie clubs disappeared...
Would all drug manufacturing and supplying suddenly stop ?
Or would another group(triad,mafia,etc) step in and fill the gap in the supply/demand chain....
In Canada after a huge, and expensive operation they police took down the top members of a large club...2 years later and they are stronger than ever...and business is booming..
Even the undercover cop admitted it wasn't worth the cost (financially to the tax payers and personally to him).

I agree this is exactly the case but this is not my argument mate.

**Dick** · 07-07-2010, 06:38 PM

Jup see the point I made above. Fine, book me and everyone riding with me for speeding if that is what we were doing. But don't throw street racing at me.

**sharky** · 07-07-2010, 06:38 PM

quote:I'm not too sure why I need to be trustworthy to go for a ride with some mates

It's a little bit more than that isn't it mate and you know it.
On our 'runs' I could have walked into the campsite and taken my pic of the bikes with keys left in them ...
Because we all trusted each other there was never an issue with someone stealing anything...
Compare that to the major bike events in the UK where people go around nicking from the tents whilst the crowds are watching the bands...
One year the HA caught the lowlife red-handed coming out of someones tent with their gear...so they went on stage and asked for any one who had been robbed to make there way to the front of the stage..they then dragged out the thief and his mates...(they had found the van full of stolen gear) and threw said scum into the crowd.

**JackTar** · 07-07-2010, 06:43 PM

Well if that is all it is for Russ I think the selection process in the UK may be a bit different to what it is here.

And why DO you trust everyone on our runs Russ? I know I sure as hell didn't have any sort of gruelling initiation and months of waiting to get to ride with guys off this forum.

I think we may just have to agree to disagree on this one Russ.

**sharky** · 07-07-2010, 07:01 PM

By 'our runs' I was referring to the club days in the uk mate...not ASF stuff.....would trust you as far as you could throw a pillow....but I still shared a room with ya

**JackTar** · 07-07-2010, 07:04 PM

And by god you looked alright with your head buried in said pillow.

**Redmohawk** · 07-07-2010, 07:15 PM

One queston for all , how many people do you think walk into a patch club and ask to be involved? I'd bet its a fucking low number, Most of the local members here I know were bred into the club lol sure there are a few blow ins but the local blokes must number over 100 here.

I know some , including the prez but i'm not best buddies invited to his house or anything but have been told on several occasions to drop into the club house when ever and say hello. I worked in a nightclub locally for 10 years ruffly and they pop in once and a while to TALK with someone who's maybe being a little flippant with there dealings lol. On every occasion they dropped in they were always certious and friendly quite often joking around and never did I ever have a problem with any of them. I doubt there boss told em to look after me , I'm not important to them. Only once was there any trouble and it was sorted very quickly when someone had a go at a members son i think it was about 4 onto him. Though i wasnt there that night.

Sure they may/are be involved with drugs and yes in our little patch group of internet hero's there are to I know . As with all groups of people . Granted the HA my be the big bad group and have a general ethos of do as we please fuck your laws, still doesnt change the fact that these laws proposed will not change a thing for the clubs/problems there designed to fight.

But they will make other people lives harder in many ways, what happens if this law is pushed through? Do you think Joe Blow knows or cares if there is a difference between a harley riding patch club rider and us on an AFR ride ? I doubt it.

I don't trust anybody till they prove themselves to be trustworthy, bitten far to many times to bother with easy trust now days. Though I must say I have been very pleasantly supprised by the cander openess and general honasty of people on this site.

**Cruisecontrol** · 07-07-2010, 08:01 PM

quote:Originally posted by Redmohawk

these laws proposed will not change a thing for the clubs/problems there designed to fight.

Oh yes they will, hence why they are trying to stop them.

**JackTar** · 07-07-2010, 08:08 PM

I was wondering when you would pipe up postie.

**HOS** · 07-07-2010, 08:14 PM

quote:Originally posted by Gitzy

And why shouldnt they be classed as a criminal organisation?? there mostly bloody criminals Hos, just cos they ride bikes?? is this your prob.. I know you hate the law but seriously dude your not that naive, most of these 'Bikie gangs' are supplying our youth with drugs, bashing people left right and centre, sparking rival gang wars the list goes on.. what makes them different from some kind of prison gang or LA street gang, the mere fact they ride motorcycles?? no way.. they dont usually meet up for shits and giggles or the odd BBQ do they.. read some of this and tell me they shouldnt be classed as criminals..

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/vic...-1111113799772

Gitsy I am not making any comment about the law or the bike clubs, I was raising the question: has it happened yet ? The news media here says the Aus gov is considering making them illegal thats all.

**JackTar** · 07-07-2010, 08:17 PM

And now look what you've caused you tin foil hat wearing mother fucker.

**sharky** · 07-07-2010, 08:19 PM

They tried similar in Canada years ago cc...the clubs just removed their patches in public and went about their business blending in to the rest of society...and the police lost track of them...
Yep...that worked...

**Tony OW31** · 07-07-2010, 08:19 PM

quote:Originally posted by JackTar

Then why the rigorous selection process Sharky? If they are just a bunch of blokes who like to go riding I should be able to just start wearing the patch for whichever club I wish to "just ride with" shouldn't I?

I bet you there are a few golf or country clubs where the selection process is just as rigorous, if they are just a bunch of blokes who like playing golf I should just be able to rock up and have a round at whichever club I wish to shouldn't I?

**JackTar** · 07-07-2010, 08:29 PM

Apples and oranges again Tony, I'm fairly confident golf clubs don't require members conduct illegal activities to prove they are worthy and don't suggest that the patch clubs don't either because I know they do for a fact, perhaps not all but defenitely fair amount.

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