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Azrael
16-12-2008, 09:40 PM
Ok gangsters, here its is the 1978 cm185 i found in Tans shed a few months back. This was not the best thing made in 1978, id even go as far as to say it probably ranks just below "shadow dancing" by andy gibb. worse yet, its a honda, and yes it has about 0.003hp, but she doesnt need any more power than that and when i saw it i though cafe racer because stock it looks like rusted homosexual.
Ill let the masses be the judge whether or not its worth the effort but i figure its harder to make a shite bike look good than a good bike look great..

How i got it...
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451239210444.jpg

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451239210836.jpg

Azrael
16-12-2008, 09:43 PM
Stripping it down was mainly up to Ado and Ivy(in pic) because i was busy drinking and talking on the phone.. only problem with that is i have no idea what bolts go where, cunts..
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335213038.jpg

Azrael
16-12-2008, 09:51 PM
Everything on the bike was scaled or rusted to all buggery, so the frame went to the sand blasters while i fucked around pulling the motor to bits cleaning stuff as i went.
Im shit at cleaning things and got really impatient with wire brushing/sanding aluminium that has been corroding for the best part of a million years so build a really fucking dodgy bead blasting booth in the garage. Yes i have 2 workshops where i could have done this but i was in a hurry and my ute is broked so home blaster it is!
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335178330.jpg

Azrael
16-12-2008, 09:58 PM
Ok on a serous note, this is perfectly safe and should be carried out with minimal safety gear whilst intoxicated because everything is way more fun when ur drunk with the possible exception of ping pong which is not fun anytime its just gay.
Home made blasting booths are not gay, Fact!
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335180819.jpg

Azrael
16-12-2008, 10:02 PM
Not entirely shit for a quick job, what i missed while blasting i cleaned up with wire brushes and degreaser..

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335201460.jpg


http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335198046.jpg

Azrael
16-12-2008, 10:09 PM
Now then..
keep in mind this is only a mock up so i can wrok out where to put the tank and rear cowl and decide angles etc.
This also serves as a template for anyone wishing to photoshop it an tell me what im doing wrong which is probably a fair bit.

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335210319.jpg


Yes the (unfinished) tank and rear cowl are supported solely by old pairs of pants because its all i could find and im lazy etc.

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335205905.jpg

Azrael
16-12-2008, 10:14 PM
Yes im going to cut most of the back of the frame off and rebuild it to suit with minimal tubing and move the shocks to suit so just concentrate on placement of the tank an cowl. As far as visual appeal goes i can make the rest to suit.
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335222908.jpg

BANDITROD
16-12-2008, 10:15 PM
i like mate that tank and tail go really well together

Azrael
16-12-2008, 10:17 PM
I really shoulda got a better shot of this but i arched the rear cowl out to hold a coulpa peashooter exhausts when i finally get it done..

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335118514.jpg

BANDITROD
16-12-2008, 10:18 PM
so undertail exhaust it is then looks the good mate

Azrael
16-12-2008, 10:21 PM
This is the donk, was gona do the block and barrel in gloss black and the rest shney..
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335273157.jpg


So fucking over polishing i cannot begin to tell you

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335185933.jpg

Azrael
16-12-2008, 10:23 PM
Cheers rod, im trying to make it a bit different rom the usual cafe racers but without going overboard.

miniman1
16-12-2008, 10:25 PM
Im liking it so far, keep d pics coming

BANDITROD
16-12-2008, 10:29 PM
get yourself a good flap wheel for your bench grinder and polishing becomes quite easy mate but ti still covers you in black shit

hyofighter
16-12-2008, 11:06 PM
tom looks like you have about 93 projects in there at the moment , how you gonna fit the crikey in there for the swing arm and the beige overhaul :D

seriously the cafe is looking awesome

Azrael
16-12-2008, 11:49 PM
quote:Originally posted by hyofighter

tom looks like you have about 93 projects in there at the moment , how you gonna fit the crikey in there for the swing arm and the beige overhaul :D

seriously the cafe is looking awesome


Cheers Scotty, yeh ive got a few bikes to build but Operation BEIGE is definately on my mind. Been lookin into the sssa thing and ive got a plan..sorta..

Jockney Rebel
17-12-2008, 01:21 AM
looks like uve giot yer hands full mister lol ..still i like ur determination [i hate fukin polishing too ]

debaser
17-12-2008, 09:11 AM
quote:Originally posted by Azrael

Yes im going to cut most of the back of the frame off and rebuild it to suit with minimal tubing and move the shocks to suit so just concentrate on placement of the tank an cowl. As far as visual appeal goes i can make the rest to suit.
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/967451335222908.jpg



You have been sitting on that playing playstation! The tv is a give away. Thats gonna be a sweet little ride.

Bear
17-12-2008, 09:12 AM
Your rants crack me up, Az! :D

You're on a winner here, I reckon.
Have you thought about going twin carby with shorter manifolds? You'll get better throttle response.

debaser
17-12-2008, 09:21 AM
quote:Originally posted by Bear

Your rants crack me up, Az! :D

You're on a winner here, I reckon.
Have you thought about going twin carby with shorter manifolds? You'll get better throttle response.


I have a nice little set of tzr carbs. Actually I have quite a bit of old tzr stuff if you need it. Keeping it old school is the way though, drums, spokes etc. One of those repro manx tanks would be sweet but probably cost more than the entire project;)

debaser
17-12-2008, 09:36 AM
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/96745283685517.jpg

Azrael
17-12-2008, 10:13 AM
quote:Originally posted by Bear

Your rants crack me up, Az! :D

You're on a winner here, I reckon.
Have you thought about going twin carby with shorter manifolds? You'll get better throttle response.


Twins sounds like a great idea, anyone know what would suit it?

Azrael
17-12-2008, 10:16 AM
[/quote]

I have a nice little set of tzr carbs. Actually I have quite a bit of old tzr stuff if you need it. Keeping it old school is the way though, drums, spokes etc. One of those repro manx tanks would be sweet but probably cost more than the entire project;)
[/quote]

Yeh mate im gonna keep it all as retro as possible, lovve the spoked rims, gotta find new spokes for em though, they are rusted beyond my cleaning ability and they gotta be shiney!!!

davio
17-12-2008, 11:10 AM
thats goin to be a sweet bike mate, seein as it has only 0.003 hp it wont have to stop either ,so u gotta go for a twin leading shoe drum on the front

Azrael
08-01-2009, 10:31 PM
Mmmmkay, this is where the tank started, not great, but better than the bulbous rusted heap of shit stocker.
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/60198478780691.jpg

Azrael
08-01-2009, 10:35 PM
Then like this..
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/60198478780578.jpg

Azrael
08-01-2009, 10:39 PM
After choppin the frame, moving the shocks waaaaaaaay forward i chucked the tank on and it looked way too far back from the headstem..
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/601984787100371.jpg

Azrael
08-01-2009, 10:42 PM
The tank got lopped a bit and aside from being a bit rough looking should hold feul..well maybe..
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/60198478765833.jpg

Azrael
08-01-2009, 10:43 PM
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/60198478767584.jpg

Azrael
08-01-2009, 10:46 PM
This is the arrangment i decided on to hold the rear cowl, although the cowl itself will bolt on and off this..
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/60198478789835.jpg

Azrael
08-01-2009, 10:48 PM
Doesnt look entirely shit from behind, should look mean with pipes hangin out though..
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/601984787101127.jpg

Azrael
08-01-2009, 10:51 PM
This is as far as ive got.. i has more pics but fuckall motivation rite now..
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/60198478793423.jpg

BANDITROD
08-01-2009, 11:38 PM
tom that looks fuckin wicked mate well done ......i am constantly astounded by the talent we have around here give your self i pat on the back mate

Bear
09-01-2009, 12:01 AM
Looks good with the shocks forward but you may have compensate them with some preload. Have you thought about that? The rear end will be softer with them angled forward.

Azrael
09-01-2009, 12:14 AM
Cheers Rod, its got a long way to go yet but its certainly a start. Gotta learn how to make a seat yet haha, i fucking hate upholstry!
Thanks Darren, im not too stressed about the shocks because its for my gf and she is tiny and weighs nothing and this is gonna be her track/show bike.. the CB250 superdream in the background will be her fighter and daily rider when i get done building the other 10 bikes..

CBRRRT
09-01-2009, 10:22 AM
How nice does that look mate, get motivated fella you're on a roll.

Fight_fan
09-01-2009, 10:34 AM
Thats fuckin ace tom! Well done mate!

pappas
09-01-2009, 10:34 AM
Hey mate top work! Love tail unit!

Bear is right about the angle of the shock mate. you've more than halved the ratio of spring comptression to swingarm travel. Initially you had close to 1:1 now it's about 1:0.5, so with the same weight on the bike it you rear travel will double. Also as the swingarm goes up the down ward force of the spring decreases and it pushes the swingarm away from the frame.

Just my opinion mate, I'll pull my head in now!

zx12argh
09-01-2009, 12:45 PM
Bloody hell - what rod said! I reckon a little super charger would go nicely with those angles you've got going on there...

Azrael
09-01-2009, 06:40 PM
Cheers guys, i dont have a clue what a cafe racer should be or look like (to the purists) so im making this shit up as i go and appreciate all help i can get.
Pappas, ive been thinking about the suspension thing and i rekon you guys are right. So my question is this. I want to retain the seat height and the "vacant" look under the rear cowl between the rear wheel so do i ...
A: Move both top and bottom shock mounts till i get the same degree rake of the suspension.
B: leave the ange and put heavier shocks in, say off a cb250..
C: Put it back stock..
D: <----your suggestion here..
Pease dont embarrass yourself by choosing C or i will fart in your mouth.

Cruisecontrol
09-01-2009, 06:45 PM
Monoshock

bluemk1
09-01-2009, 06:59 PM
quote:Originally posted by Cruisecontrol

<s>Monoshock</s>

C



really? [:0]

Cruisecontrol
09-01-2009, 07:01 PM
Nah, go for leafies. Be original!

http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/810945830275860.jpg

bluemk1
09-01-2009, 07:15 PM
not sure if thats a joke regarding the leafies or not as thats a new concept to me, leafies on bikes?

but i tell you what i love it!

Azrael
09-01-2009, 07:32 PM
They used to use leafies on the front on some older chops and bobs, Dan however is not the kinda guy who let conventional thinking cloud his judgement and prefers to think outside the trapazoid..
Anyhoo, Had thought of the mono but want to run 2 shocks purely for looks and keep the older style of the bike.

bluemk1, yes really..

Cruisecontrol
09-01-2009, 08:05 PM
Shorter shock mounted further up a braced swingarm perhaps?

Bear
09-01-2009, 08:46 PM
Just get heavier shocks the same length. You're gonna have to experiment here with travel length and spring stiffness etc. cause there's no real scientific/theory doodah. Well there is but you've gotta be a suspension guru to nut it all out and then some.

Do you know any bike wreckers?

Best bet is to keep the originals in til you get near completion and it's ridable. Then go visit a wrecker and swap them over til you've found a set you like. You'll just have to experiment with donor shocks til you get the right feel that are happy with. You or the lady may like it with some softness or you may find that it turns better with a stiffy (sorry, couldn't resist).

The twin shocks look cool, imho.

If you were designing the bike from scratch, then you'd go the scientific approach with fulcrum points etc etc yadda yadda, and even then you may want to change spring rates once you've ridden it. Gotta be one of the hardest areas to get exactly right if you are building your own frame, don't ya reckon chop? ;)

There is one other alternative but it's time consuming: keep the old shocks but change the springs. If you can't get to a wrecker, then I'd suggest this approach. It's not ideal though, because the oil dampening internals will be mated to the original spring. Whacking in a heavier spring can make the internals heat up under normal use and you'll get shock fade. But hey, rules are meant to be broken and sometimes ya gotta make do with what ya got, right? :D
You will have to make bigger spring collars for a heavier spring also, but I'd say that a fella like you could knock them up easy. :D

Here's a shot in the dark just by looking at the picture - try swapping them over for a pair of Honda XR200 (pre mono-shock obviously) or XL185 twin shocks. The originals look very similiar in length. Could still be too soft but the honda shocks will take a heavier spring, me thinks. Fuggin mine-field in this area but great when you nail it.

Bear
09-01-2009, 09:05 PM
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/81094648236800.jpg


http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/81094648216377.jpg

TurboKat
10-01-2009, 07:31 AM
The tightarse method of spring stiffening is to cut a few coils off, less coils = stiffer spring rate. You hafta make a spacer the same O.D. as the spring to reclaim the original length (spacer can be made a bit longer if you want to preload the spring a bit)
If that was my project I'd cut the top half of the springs off (those particular springs are dual rate going by the winding - the closer the spring is wound, the softer the rate so the top half of those is the soft bit) & make up a spacer to fill the gap, that should put you in the ballpark.
Half spring/half spacer might not look any good though, you could put fork boots over them I spose.
Alternatively, old MX/Enduro twin shocks are more likely to have straight rate springs, if a Wrecker has a pair of old twin shocks that have fucked seals or shafts, they're pretty much worthless to them so if you could find a pair with the right springs you'd probly get 'em for a 6 pack.

Azrael
10-01-2009, 12:03 PM
Hey cheers guys for taking the time to help, i think ill head to the wreckers and see what i can dig up and failing that chop em and make fork boots for like Darren said. I just noticed last night that one of them is a bit bent so i think they gotta be replaced or covered with fork boots anyway..
Ill post up more as it happens!

BANDITROD
11-01-2009, 10:59 AM
what length do you need these bad boys tom that way we could all check out what we have lying around in the shed .....i am sure someone here would have to have something in there shed

Azrael
11-01-2009, 11:07 AM
Ill measure them when i get home, failing that im going to see Morry (rockhard) 2moro and dig through all their stuff at motorcycle masters and see whats kickin about.

Bear
11-01-2009, 03:27 PM
Just to throw another spanner in the works, in case you haven't thought about it:
The shocks you choose will have a big impact on how quick or slow the bike turns via the steering head angle.
If the shocks are too long or too stiff, the rear will ride high and the steering will be quick and possibly nervous at high speed.
If the shocks are too short or soft, you'll get the opposite. Better to be too stiff, I reckon. Too soft and you get wallow and running wide in turns. Just make sure the seat has a good amount of foam. :D

Just another one of those things that depends on personal feel and taste. You can make a big improvement to a slug in these situations or visa versa. ;)

If you know all this already then goodo. Hopefully this info will benefit others.

pappas
12-01-2009, 09:16 AM
I think you should try and keep the shock as close to the same radius that your swingarm travels. So use your Swingarm bolt as the centre and draw a circle and where it meets the fram and the swingarmm is where your shock should mount. Does that make sense? Like this....
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/22192251384100.jpg

fimpBIKES
12-01-2009, 11:38 AM
thats transferring bending loads from the shock to the swingarm
always good to minimise bending loads on shocks!!

might need to beef up the swing-arm though

zx12argh
12-01-2009, 12:14 PM
Just quit being soft and make it a hard tail.

Azrael
01-12-2010, 07:04 PM
Talk about digging up old threads, fark, its been a while, but believe it or not this bike is slowly being put together. The frame is finished and painted, the motor is painted and assembled and the tank and rear cowl are waiting some special treatment.

Half way through polishing the side covers i had a bit of a moment and decided it was a good idea to bust out the dremel and draw shit all over the motor because thats what you do when your mental.

Not sure how well this is going to turn out but once youve started theres no real turning back so stay tuned..

http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1291196992.jpg


http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1291286235.jpg


http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1291264190.jpg


http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1291265694.jpg


http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1291210154.jpg


http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1291209157.jpg


http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1291228138.jpg


http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1291204339.jpg


http://www.asfphotos.com/upload/1291247249.jpg

crazymofo
01-12-2010, 07:25 PM
holy shit, thats sweet!! nice work

cheers.joe.

BANDITROD
01-12-2010, 08:09 PM
fuck thats looks awesome tom ...

El_Hefty
01-12-2010, 08:37 PM
I wish i was as creative, nice work

80s freak
01-12-2010, 09:35 PM
That is cool. Nice Dremel work.

holyman_999
01-12-2010, 09:51 PM
Fucking sweet! I love it!!!