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Ronny
20-04-2008, 12:53 AM
Shown at Ebay Germany

http://cgi.ebay.de/Tastensteuerung-Schaltbox-Speedpack2_W0QQitemZ170211368271QQihZ007QQcategory Z101892QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

This Switchpack ist the Mastermind for your bike. If you building a new bike or upgrade your wireing harness this might be the answer. This Processor controlled Pack allows you to use very small impulse switches in your Handlebar to control your bike. With this small box you control your turning light, pass- and drive light, your kill switch, the startbotton and your horn. Everything is controlled by a internal security system witch checks your sidestand position or the neutral position of your gear during starting and driving. Your starter and ignition works only if the sidestand is in drive position or your gear is in neutral position. The turning light function can be used with LED or ordinary bulbs.
Additional this box switches the complete current of your bike. You need only a very thin cable to your ignition lock or your handlebar. So itīs possible for you to clean your handlebar from thick cables, use any kind of turning lights a.s.o.
Last but not least you have the possiblity to add an alarm system with an remote controlled starter for your bike. Just press an button on your remote control an your engine starts.

Any questions, send me an mail or use the Ebay mailing system.

Fatgit
20-04-2008, 10:47 AM
How do these impulse switches work?

Rumbo
20-04-2008, 02:49 PM
Does it come with the switches or do I have to make them myself?

Ronny
20-04-2008, 10:55 PM
@Fatgit

The impulse switches work in this way: push the button and circuit is closed. Release the button und the circuit is open.

@Rumbo

It comes without the switches. During the next weeks we work at our own switch compartment and then we can offer a complete set.


@All

Weīare working at an english translation of our webpage. The english version is coming soon.

Fatgit
20-04-2008, 11:10 PM
quote:Originally posted by Ronny

@Fatgit

The impulse switches work in this way: push the button and circuit is closed. Release the button und the circuit is open.



They're more commonly known as 'momentary switches' Ronny.

21-04-2008, 08:33 AM
Was talking to ben just the other month about something like this. Was trying to decide to use a PIC or discrete components.Looks like I was beaten to the punch.

sharky
21-04-2008, 08:35 AM
All sounds very trick....but what if summat goes wrong...do you just lose the relevant circuit or does the whole system shut down ?

Seifer
21-04-2008, 08:48 AM
Can someone pls explain the benefit of this over the stock system?

sharky
21-04-2008, 08:55 AM
I think its one of those fancy systems that only uses a few thin wires instead a great big thick loom.
Don't modern bmw's etc use summat similar ?

Fatgit
21-04-2008, 09:14 AM
There'll be a number of benefits. But verify with the manufacturer.
This is a replacement for your current handle bar switch block circuitry. It will provide a system independant of the rest of your electrics. A number of benefits can be had with this type of design

A) Simplicity. setting up and troubleshooting new/replacement switchblocks will be easier. Problems with existing units should be easier to diagnose.

B) Superior power management. For the guys with older bikes this system will add superior current control to this section of your electrics (think dodgy shorts and the like being controlled). If they're running a micro-processor based controller, then they're probably using switch mode power supply control, meaning that they can detect and reduce power fast enough to prevent short circuits from destroying components (think of the modern fuses in houses that prevent electrocution), with any luck they'll have some sort of diagnostics to inform you of the short.

C) reduced power consumption in this circuit, leaving more power for coils.

D) smaller, cleaner wiring runs between it and your switchblocks.

Ronny: Can the side-stand/clutch cut out function be turned off? or just dummy the sidetand switch? lotta guys don't like'em.

21-04-2008, 12:54 PM
I'd rather still have the basic electrics without the hassle of modern electronics. Yeah I know you can use smaller gauge wiring for the switch blocks and that.

Will you have to run shielded cable to reduce the possibility of interference ?

Yeah and what happens if the smoke escapes from the black box ?

Would rather see a more modular system, so if the "Black Box" chip goes it doesn't take the whole show with it.

As for point C fatgit, I fail to see how power consumption will be reduced, if anything adding a relay will only increase the overall current consumption.I doubt if a switch mode regualtor would be part of the equation, more like a filtered supply.

Look it's a great idea for those wanting a clean cockpit area and may run for ever without throwing a wobbly.

sharky
21-04-2008, 01:02 PM
I'll always be suspicious of fancy wiring looms...the smallest thing can leave the bike stranded..Aye Deano ;)

Ronny
21-04-2008, 11:19 PM
@Fatgit

The sidestand/clutch/neutral safety funktion can be turned off, thatīs no problem. Here in Germany we must have this funktion inside for bikes manufacted after 1989.

Fatgit
22-04-2008, 07:10 AM
quote:Originally posted by bladehunter

I'd rather still have the basic electrics without the hassle of modern electronics. Yeah I know you can use smaller gauge wiring for the switch blocks and that.

Will you have to run shielded cable to reduce the possibility of interference ?

Yeah and what happens if the smoke escapes from the black box ?

Would rather see a more modular system, so if the "Black Box" chip goes it doesn't take the whole show with it.

As for point C fatgit, I fail to see how power consumption will be reduced, if anything adding a relay will only increase the overall current consumption.I doubt if a switch mode regualtor would be part of the equation, more like a filtered supply.

Look it's a great idea for those wanting a clean cockpit area and may run for ever without throwing a wobbly.


The possibility of the chip dying is quite small with well designed microchip systems, there are even chips specifically for automotive applications, designed to handle a lot of the usual problems.;) Plus they can be swapped out for a replacement in a matter of minutes, carry a spare if your that worried.

Shielded cable? What the hell for? To prevent Russian internet crime gangs hacking your dash?[8D]

Also the switch block wiring system is probably 5v, not traditional 12v, and with far less current. That's why they can use such small guage wiring and very small momentary switches. That equates to more power for the elsewhere.

These days a switch mode power supply makes more sense than a simple filtered supply, costs no more, is more reliable on dodgy electrics, and doesn't have the heat issues.

I'm not running out to buy one for myself (already have my own basic EPM unit), but I do think it's a good idea, and will be of benefit to others, expecially those doing more radical work on older bikes.


(This all comes with the proviso that I have not seen/tested the product or designs)

22-04-2008, 10:15 AM
Well once you start running unshielded cables near something like your HT leads there's always the possibility of inducted noise.....Maybe the switch blocks still run at 12v with a schmitt trigger input to reduce the chance of false inputs or maybe a long delay with the debounce circuit\routine to help also.

As for the current issue. Yes the "switch blocks" themselves will use less current.....Far less prolly in the realm of a couple of hundred micro amps. But there will still be the extra load of the relay coils, which would be small but still an additive.The real advantage would be the cleaner contacts of the relays as opposed to your traditional switch block which would help to reduce the voltage drop in high current loads such as your horn and headlights.

Things still break. Smoke still escapes from electronic components. I spent many long hours doing board level repairs with SMD's and I think KISS is the best answer.

Yeah yeah I'm splitting hairs on the current issue.

I always thought having a RS-232\USB input with the ability to diagnose by be being able to turn relays on and off would help in trouble shooting and initial debugging of the wiring. Also the ability to assign certain outputs as a latched or momentary output with maybe a delay involved.

Ronny
23-04-2008, 05:17 AM
@Bladehunter

I wrapped the cabels between handlebar and switchback around my ignition coils and the cabels to the spark plugs. Nothing happens because Iām not using a bus-system or somthing like that. Any input is protected with surpressor coils and overvoltage safety circuits.

Any modern motor mangement system uses microcontroller. If you protect them from overvoltage they work for lifetime (hope so)in any car or bike. Even the black boxes of modern bikes are microntrolled.
They are still working .

23-04-2008, 03:14 PM
Well you can't ask for any better test than that.

Fatgit
24-04-2008, 10:48 AM
Know exactly what you're saying about the USB port Blade, and the chips (PIC 18F4550 etc) that I use for dash's come with USB on board, but I actually find it easier to use an SD card for transferring data, updating the code etc. It also means I can use the same slot for expanded data logging.

Also the automotive equivalents come with CAN busses built-in, for comapatbility with automotive industry diagnostic equipment.

TheBogyman
21-12-2008, 01:36 AM
Can you post a new link, this one is over 90 days old so ebay ahve remocved the site,