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03gixxerpilot
11-02-2008, 10:30 PM
:D i have been slowly been aquring parts to build a bigblock gsxr750, the plan was/is to use a short stroke top end ( long stroke =70mm bore short stroke=73mm bore ) on a long stroke bottom end, using a spacer plate under the barrels to take care of the diffrence in the stroke/hight of the two motors.

However, suzuki in it wisdome have made it a lot harder to do than just put a spacer plate under the borrels of the short stroke motor and away you go with 815cc motor. No they have used diffrent sized rist pins in the pistons to stop us from doing this, the long stroke motor has 18mm pins and theshort stroke has 19mm pins.

So something is not going to fit obviously, so the next thing to work out is how to get around this problem, (THERE ARE SEVERAL WAYS AROUND THIS PROBLEM WITH THERE OWN PROBLEMS AND MERRITS ) first thing i considered was to have the conrods bored out to it the bigger pins, but this was the least desirable way to go for several reasons, the two main ones are that i have to dissasemble the cases to do so and that it will make the conrod weaker around the pin area.

The second way around this is to get a set of custome pistons made for it, which is proberly the best way but cost and lead time were factors that i considered, (i didn't research this much as i have another plan) what i have found out is that wiseco will charge extra for costom pistons reguardless of how they do it, but apprantly JE will not chare you extra if they can use a blank that they use for another pistone IE if they use the short stroke piston and only bore the pin out to 18mm instead of 19mm which is not a bad way to go.

The third (and this is not to say that they are other ways around this ) is to use pistons from another motor that will suit the application on the motor that i am trying to put together,
after many hours on the net and downloading catalogs then cross refrencing them i have found that there are a few diffrent options avalible to use but only one that uses 73mm pistons, the others use bigger pistons which is ok if you want to bore the barrels out (BY THE WAY A MAX OF 76MM OR 3MM OVER SIZE IS RECOMENDED UNLESS YOU ARE GOING TO USE AFTERMARKET LINERS TO SUIT THE LARGER PISTONS) so back to the knowledge, Kawasaki 1996-2003 ZX7R's use 73mm pistons and have 18mm rist pins, ( in the wiseco catalogue they use the same pins for both the suzuki and kawasaki )so this is the option that i am most likly to use as i can get of the shelf parts, also the kawasaki pistons come in oversize pistons as well so if a rebore is required it can catered for.

now for the other pistons that will suit this application are GSX1100E 1980-83 (18mm pin) and are availble in 74mm 75mm 76mm 78mm 80mm 83mm pistons, however as you can see you will need to bore your barrels out oversize to use the smallest pistons avaible

Ok now i have found suitable pistons ( i am going to be using the ZX7R or ZX7RR pistons ) i no have to work out how much IF any diffrence there is in pit to piston top hight ( i know that there is on the ZX7R and ZX7RR pistons ) to that of the suzuki ones, how ever this is not a problem as such as a spacer plate has to be used to compensate for the extra stroke of the long stroke motor. the ZX7RR has a shorter hight between the pis and top of piston so it might be of advantage to use it i don'know untill i get the specs of both the pistons and check them out to see which will best suit my applications

So that is how things stand at the moment, i will keep you informed of progress as i go.

if you have any questions i will try to answer them for you and if you have any information it would be appricated.

Cheers Clive.

11-02-2008, 10:49 PM
WoW!!! You must really enjoy reading manuals or be really tired of it by now. Sounds like a really interesting build though. I will be looking for updates.

Tone
12-02-2008, 04:03 AM
Cool project 03,I'll be very interested in how this goes.Keep posting.

03gixxerpilot
12-02-2008, 04:32 AM
Ok just to keep people intreated in where i'm at here is a list of what i have so far.

1 90 gsxr750 motor compleat
1 set of 88 gsxr 750 barrels and pistons
1 88 gsxr750 motor compleat
1 88 gsxr750 wireing harness
1 set of 88 gsxr750 carbies
1 set of 88 gsxr750 headers
several sets of heads from various oil cooled gsxr's ( 750 and 1100 )

the only thing at the moment is that the short stroke motor is in brisbane and i don't have the spare funds to get it up here just at the moment. If any one can help me get it up here (Townsville) cheap please let me know.
i should have the long stroke motor here this week and so i can start with an engine stand to help with the build, and to strip the top end down so that i can have it ready for when i can make more progress on it.

Blackkat
12-02-2008, 04:50 PM
what if you pressed a sleeve into the pistons and used teflon buttons to locate the piston pins instead of circlips?

you could then use GSXR1100 GHJ pistons.

also look at 280199831477 on ebay.

DaveK5
12-02-2008, 05:35 PM
A cunning plan if ever I heard one...good shit Clive...me short on funds too atm (big rates bill):(.
Do you think that there would be a difference in the valve reliefs or the piston crowns between Kawasaki and Suzuki..then again both are 4 valve engines and a little more "relieving" probably won't hurt.
Have fun.

03gixxerpilot
12-02-2008, 05:57 PM
Aussiecat that might work, but i am going to use the set up that i decided on for the simple fact that i don't have to do any out of the ordanery mods on it.

Dave yes they are both 4 valve motors, but the distance between and included angle of the valves will still have to be taken into consideration, how ever that is why we compare the pistons and then do an assembly with playdoe to measure the clearences internaly to double check that eveything is going to be safe. a little more "relieving" in the right spots will be most benefichal for what i am trying to achieve :-D

03gixxerpilot
12-02-2008, 06:30 PM
just had a look at the pistons on ebay and they don't suit the application that i would have used them for but thanks anyway.

03gixxerpilot
13-02-2008, 06:13 AM
Good news I now have the longstroke from melbourne which i pick up today, it arrived safley (after a little misshap with NQX the mezzine floor at the loading shed fell on it but lucky the creat it was in saved it with the exception of a dent in the oil filter which could have been there befor it was sent and dosnot matter anyway) so now all i need to do is get the short stroke up from Brisbane and i can start in earnist on the build.

03gixxerpilot
14-02-2008, 01:02 PM
I got a ZX7RR piston today as a comparason against the gsxr piston, how ever in excitment to get the piston and get it here i neglicted to ask which model it came out of, and unfortunatly its not an 96-03 model cause it has a diffrent size pin in it, so i sent a fax of to Serco requesting kit numbers and dimentions, it turns out that the 96-03 ZX7R's and ZX7RR's that the same pistons and there is no diffrence in pin to crown hights between the two. So all i have to decide now is weather i'm going to use the standard bore or get a set go oversize, but i will have to wait to get the short stroke motor befor i do that just incase it is oversize itself, although i dont think it will be.

Tone
18-02-2008, 04:14 AM
http://oldskoolsuzuki.info/fastcat/library/misc/825.pdf

You did see this Clive?

03gixxerpilot
18-02-2008, 06:05 AM
yer mate i did see that and as per usual they haven't let anyone into all the secrets of what they have done.

stevo
18-02-2008, 09:06 AM
what some bastards not telling all his secrets....???????????????????????????



fuckas .... ;)




sssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!

03gixxerpilot
18-02-2008, 01:33 PM
LOL now now stevo you and i both know that.

Tone
18-02-2008, 05:04 PM
Yeah Clive dirty secrets,closely guarded.
The bit that caught my eye was them going on about only using stuff from the Suzi parts catalogue.You think they're hiding something?;)

03gixxerpilot
18-02-2008, 09:15 PM
Closely guarded secrets, yes
They well may be using only parts fron the catalogue, but it dosenot mention is what or how they may modify these parts if your read it it sayes in there that they use the 90'-91' model conrods because of the better metalergy, may be it is also to do with the fact that they need the better rods because they are boring out the little ends on them to accept the 19mm gudgon pins in them, this is only a guess as to what they have done, but i cant cross refrence any parts that will fit without modification, if you use diffrent rods you will need to mod them as well or mod the cranks accept the combination of crank and or canrods.

sharky
18-02-2008, 09:20 PM
Where in Brissy is the head mate ?

03gixxerpilot
19-02-2008, 05:33 AM
hey sharky its a compleat motor and its in Ipswitch Yamanto

ozzy1100
20-02-2008, 06:12 PM
just down the road from me lol well 15 mins anyway
sounds like u haveing lots of fun allways the way when tring dif things

03gixxerpilot
21-02-2008, 05:46 AM
built an engine stand yesterday, took me about 45mins and cost me $0.00 the motor is now able to be worked on at a comfortable height and rotated to get to all sides of the motor (including the underneath ie turn the motor upside down)makes workign on the motor a breaze an well worth the time taken to build it.

Tone
21-02-2008, 07:34 PM
Gotta pic of that stand Clive?
Please!

03gixxerpilot
21-02-2008, 08:21 PM
don't have a camera at the moment, but will do my best to get one and put up pics asap

stevo
22-02-2008, 06:57 AM
camera over here clive........

03gixxerpilot
25-02-2008, 07:59 PM
ok stevo will have to try to catch you tomorrow,

more progress, i have pulled down the top end and barrels of the long stroke motor and the bottom end looks to be in good nick, i still havent decided if im going to go the whole way and check the bearings etc but i am thinking that it would be a good idea. also give me a chance to inspect the gearbox closely as well. still waiting on the short stroke motor, but that should be on its way this week.

03gixxerpilot
04-03-2008, 12:18 AM
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/507622744103258.JPG


A couple of photos of the $0 engine stand build, worked a treat,

the motor in now a set of bare cases, i wasen't going to pull it down to bare cases but i found some dirt in the dowls that locate the barrels and was concerned about the internals of the motor. In general it was in good nick, however, the main bearings were a little worse for wear, so they will be replaced, the big end bearings look to be in very good nick, so i will check the clearence on them and if that is ok i will reuse them. this has also allowd me it inspect the gearbox, and shift mechinism, amoungst other things, and have found there to be very little if any wear at all. All in all it was worth pulling the motor down to bear cases.

Tone
04-03-2008, 04:10 AM
Nice one...that'll save your back Clive.

latheboy
03-06-2008, 08:54 PM
So how is this going, have you got much else done.... tell me tell me go on go on tell me

03gixxerpilot
03-06-2008, 09:15 PM
nar mate hven't done much at all, i have moved and every thing is all over the place, i will be sharing a workshop with a mate, and we setting it this week, so hopefully i will be able to make some progress on it, i have to get some pistons befor i can go further, but i have already decided on the ones that i want, it is just a case of getting them, but i have just started a new bussiness and it is taking a lot of my time, (i'm new to owning a bussiness) i am still getting a handle on things.

hopefully next week i will be ording the pistons.

I'll keep you informed on how it all goes.

Tone
04-06-2008, 05:08 AM
Phew...glad to see this is still going Clive,thought you were keeping it all a secret there for a while.

03gixxerpilot
04-06-2008, 02:36 PM
No, no secrets, just delays, thats all

DCRacing
09-06-2008, 09:11 AM
Clive keep it up mate, i am circut racing a L model and i had heard that you can get them out to about 955cc. but i am not too keen to push it out that far, but if i can go down the path you are i will give that a shot. i already have a spare set of L model cases, looks like i just need some barrels, can you use the L model head on the barrels? and what about head work are you looking to do if any?

03gixxerpilot
09-06-2008, 06:10 PM
DCridedays i am no going out as far as that (955) for exactly the same reason, and because i want to be able to use as many standard off the shelf parts as possible (avaiblity and cost). As for heads, basicly you must use the heads of the short stroke motors (748cc) or of any of the oil cooled 1100's, i have both a 748cc and an 1100, the 748 head is a standard one but the 1100 head has a lot of work done to it (proted and flowed etc). I am planing on using the standard 748 head as a base line one the motor and once dynoed and tested i then plan on working that particular head in stages up to the standard of the 1100 head to see what gains can be gotten out of the motor.

DCRacing
08-08-2008, 06:17 PM
Hey Gixxer, got any updates ont he motor build?

03gixxerpilot
09-08-2008, 01:57 PM
no not at the moment i am wotking on the chassis for the project at the moment
i will be sure to post up any progress as i do it though

latheboy
15-09-2008, 12:50 PM
Hey Clive .. its been 2 months any updates?????

03gixxerpilot
15-09-2008, 03:36 PM
as in the previous post to the one you have just put up i am still working on the chassis at the moment, for every ones info the chassis now has a vfr sssa installed and i new 06 R1 front end for it. i am how ever putting aside the $$$$$ for the piston kit and machining that will need to be done, i am getting close to having all the dollars needed.

03gixxerpilot
15-09-2008, 05:42 PM
been thinking about it since i replyed to your last, and ............................................


Thanks for the kick up the ass i have decided to make room in the overcrouded w/shop and make some more progress on this project,
what good is a chassis without a motor anyway. LOL

latheboy
15-09-2008, 06:07 PM
haha ...

03gixxerpilot
17-09-2008, 04:14 PM
DC and latheboy just a quick up date on the build, last night i revuied what i have researched so for and what else i would need to buy, get made to make more progress on the build, with the current combination i have not thought on base and head gaskets, and sice the size bore that i had decided on is not one that is standard i would have to get them custom made for the aplication, the whole idea of the build was to have as little amount of custom made parts as possible, so more research was done last night and today, with the outcome being a new combination for the build, it is not that diffrent form the original idea, i have gone to a larger piston, ie 76mm (which is 3mm ove the orignal gixxer)this allows me to use standard suzuki gsxr 750 base gasket and a standard gsxr1100 86-88 (1052cc)head gasket thus making the only aftermarket part a spacer plate for underneath the barrels.

so a brief overview
Suzuki gsxr longstroke big block (now out to 883cc)
suxuki gsxr750 longstroke bottom end (85-87 90-92 749cc) ( recomend the late model conrods )
suxuki gsxr750 shortstroke barrels (88-89 models 748cc)
Piston kit:
Kawasaki ZX9R (98-99 00-03) +2mm pistons
im using wisco part number R923 (76mm)
Gaskets:
base GSXR750 ( shortstroke 748cc)
head GSXR1100 (early model 1052cc)

03gixxerpilot
17-09-2008, 04:17 PM
the nest question to look at is what head to use, i have the standard gsxr 748 head to use, i also have a ported and flowed head to suit a gsxr1100 (was dynoed at 195hp on an gsxr taken out to 1216)
what dose everone think of the two options, good and bad for both

Shadowzone
17-09-2008, 04:59 PM
I reckon you should leave the head on My Gixxer and nick off and buy your own Clive.

That's what I reckon!!!

DCRacing
17-09-2008, 05:57 PM
What about Cams? heading for a set of adjustable custom grind cams? who would you go to?
Maybe work out where you want the power and get the 748 head flowed and cams to suit. You know more torque or top end HP.

03gixxerpilot
17-09-2008, 07:54 PM
DC yer looking at a set of custom cams on adjustable sprockets, looking at good low to mid range power with a good amount of torque, porting the 750 head would proberly be the best way to go.

Shadowzone i wouldn't touch the head on you gixxer as it is STANDARD, i have my own (x3) that i can choose from, so you can stop worring.

03gixxerpilot
17-09-2008, 08:23 PM
oh yer i forgot i would use ivan tigh for the cams

latheboy
17-09-2008, 08:36 PM
quote:Originally posted by 03gixxerpilot

the nest question to look at is what head to use, i have the standard gsxr 748 head to use, i also have a ported and flowed head to suit a gsxr1100 (was dynoed at 195hp on an gsxr taken out to 1216)
what dose everone think of the two options, good and bad for both



Would either of these heads fit without having to make a spacer plate.... the 748 is meant to be the classic way to do this isn't it, not that it matters you use what you got.. Is the 1216 N/A or boosted thats alot of power..

03gixxerpilot
17-09-2008, 08:49 PM
latheboy both will fit, the spacer goes under the barrels to get the deck hight so it dosent matter,( except of corse in the combustion cc's to get correct comp ratio) and the motor that the 1216 head came of was a sidecar (roadracing) n/a motor

latheboy
18-09-2008, 11:00 AM
PM sent

03gixxerpilot
18-09-2008, 05:08 PM
;)latheboy replay sent

:D[8D] also i will be ordering the piston kit tomorrow.

dinorider
21-09-2008, 09:53 AM
another option to your build that I have been concidering is to use 1052 barrells on the 748 short stroke bottom end.I have been told that the piston spacing is the same,also for you to consider is combustion volume.the 748 head will have a smaller volume than the 11 head.valve size will also be something to think about if it`s hp your after.I have both motors the 748 and 749 and will be interested to see the final result.

03gixxerpilot
21-09-2008, 10:09 AM
as i have said previously the heads/cc/comp ratio is no big prob as i have the workshop to adjust those paramaters, i did think about the 1052 barrels and yes they would fit as the piston spacing is the same ( in actual fact i have had the barrels of an 1127 sitting the the top case of the 749 the only thing is that the barrels are much higher than the stroke of the 749 and the piston would be a long way from reaching the top of the barrels and the machine work to bring them back to the correct hight is not the way that i want to go ( it is certianly an option if that is the way you want to go )

Once i have the piston kit and barrels bored out to suit, i need to replace the bearings in the bottom end (both mains and big ends) as they are worn and would not stand up to the new top end (increased compresion) or the estra HP been developed, so i will need another week or two to save up for the bearings, but this time can be used got get the machining on the barrels done

I hope to have the motor finished and ready to go in three to four weeks.

03gixxerpilot
24-09-2008, 04:04 PM
:D No turning back now one set of serco pistons[:p] ordered and payed for, got a good price on the pistons as well:D, thanks to Bruce for RHD classis supplies and services.

03gixxerpilot
28-09-2008, 08:51 AM
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/upload/799227182102438.JPG

got this yesterday (saturday morning)
very happy with them, checked out crown heights, valve reliefs, etc and every thing will clear very nicely, the "lump" on the piston is lower than the orignal.

So now i have to build up the bottom end so that i can measure up the barrels for a spacer and decdk hight. Rebuild on the bottom end starts on monday.

latheboy
28-09-2008, 09:25 AM
They left some out of your box:D;)

jmw76
28-09-2008, 01:20 PM
Hi Guys,

Just a small bit of advice from a relative novice.
The Wiseco pistons have reasonably sharp edges where the machining has been done to create the valve pockets.
I tend to just break the edge on these (give them a small radius) which gives you a little bit more head room for high compression/high boost applications. Just that little bit more protection against potential detonation.
I run a large bore 1052 (81mm bore) with about 13:1 compression on regular pump gas and have never had a problem.

Cheers

Tone
28-09-2008, 01:25 PM
Cool stuff Clive.Hangin to see how this build goes.[:p]
Hope you're writing it [u]all</u> down (costs,labour,parts and aggravation) for us to pick over when done.
Cor! This is exciting!

03gixxerpilot
28-09-2008, 02:04 PM
latheboy they aren't missing;)if you know what i meen LOL

jmw76 that is very good advice for engine builders :) but it is not that it increases the head room (and by this i take it you meen compression ratio), ( well it dose but by soooooo little it dosent make that much diffrence ) the reason it helps is that the piston dosent develop a hot spot on it and thus cause detonation and or preignition.

Tone, all of what i have done and will be doing on the motor is written down here with the exception of how long i spend on the motor, ( have have spent many nights researching this and that is still ongoinig )

03gixxerpilot
28-09-2008, 02:08 PM
oh yer i forgot to mention the i have also ordered the second base gastek, the head gasket and cam chain as well yesterday.

While we are on the subject on cam chains since i am using the long stroke bottom end, and that is what is going to detremin the deck high ( which will be the same as a standard long stroke motor ) that is the cam chain i am (planing) on using. i allready have the gasket kit for it.

jmw76
28-09-2008, 03:48 PM
03gixxerpilot,
Sorry for any confussion. You are correct! Taking the edge off the sharp bits on the pistons makes stuff all difference to the compression ratio. You just want to get rid of all those potential hot spots that can promote detonation. A guy I know does this religously on all his racing dirt bikes now. Previously he was plagued with detonation issues when just slapping in out of the box Wiseco pistons. He runs well over 13:1 on readily available pump fuel.
Making a reliable high performance engine is all about detail.
Any idiot can make a bomb.

Good luck with your build. It's sounding good so far.

03gixxerpilot
28-09-2008, 04:37 PM
jmw16 there was no confusion i was just clearing it up for any that might of miss understood, i do this religously along with alot of other very improtant high prefromance (and keeping it reliable) engine build teckieques, it is a valid point though as a very simple thing can cause a lot of problems and it is easly resolved.

Thanks for the incoragment everyone it helps keep the motivation up.

03gixxerpilot
10-10-2008, 07:57 PM
ok progress ( or lack there of ) report, i have head and base gaskets, full rebuild gaskets , new cam chain, i have two sets of cases to chose form,( i have already chosen a set ), so now i have to measure the crank to work out which bearing i will need to order, get the crank linished (it has a few very small marks that i want sorted) and then i can assemble the bottom end, in the mean while i can get the spacer made up and get the barrels bored out, unfortuanitly this is going to take awhile to get done due the a lack of money ( work is a bit quiet at the moment).

work on the bottom end will progress in the mean time.

BANDITROD
10-10-2008, 08:32 PM
awsome stuff clive its always good to see these sort of builds or how to's and i am on the edge of my seat here mate

OZ750L
23-10-2008, 11:49 AM
Gix,

When you get a chance, go into www.gixxer.com and into the Oil-Cooled forum have a look at Downloads! Service Manuals, Parts Diagrams, Magazine Scans, etc.

http://www.gixxer.com/forums/showthread.php?t=188066.

Have a look at the Power of the Poconos article. Some good info there. Just looking back through and someone posted a link to the same article on the Old Skool site.

Just further to that, I seem to remember Motorcyclist doing a followup article on that blue/black big block bike where they went into the mechanicals in more detail. I'll have a scratch around and see what I can find.

Sounds like you know what your doing and will be impressive when finished.

03gixxerpilot
23-10-2008, 02:49 PM
i have on order a cd manual (orignal suzuki) for both the short and long storke versions so no problems there, the work gone into this motor has been long and extensive, orignally i was going to follow another build similar to mine but it became apprant very quickly that all the info (and for that matter most of it) that was required to build the motor was not included in the artical so i have decided to start form scratch and go form there.

DaveK5
28-10-2008, 05:47 PM
How's it goin Clive..
Those genuine part manuals will be the go...get ya calculator out and go code breaking.

03gixxerpilot
28-10-2008, 08:12 PM
yer dave good

i will be onto it soon, i have to ave my pennys first, however there are a few things i can do while i am saving so progress is been made slowly all the time.

OZ750L
06-11-2008, 11:48 PM
Hey Clive,

How goes it with a copy of that manual?

23-02-2010, 08:40 PM
WHatever happened to this project?

03gixxerpilot
23-02-2010, 09:15 PM
http://www.streetfighters.com.au/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6046&whichpage=4

go here

i have had a few interruptions like a kid (love her dearly) but now i have the time and space to move again i am making some more progress. every time i think i am going to get ahead something comes and stops it form happening.

i have however got the triples made for it and got the lower steering head bearing, just waiting for a bit of spare cash to get the top one and it can make some more progress

latheboy
15-07-2010, 04:05 PM
Are you still building this motor Clive?

03gixxerpilot
15-07-2010, 06:45 PM
yer mate i am, i just havent made any progress since last post, i saved and got the billet front end, so now i am saving for the rest of the motor, still doing all the reserch into compression rations etc that i want, i am hoping to make alot of progress on the motor this half of the year, hoping to have the motor together by the end of this year/beginning of nest year.

DCRacing
23-05-2011, 04:25 PM
Hey Clive,
Been off the air for a while, any updates???

BANDITROD
23-05-2011, 05:02 PM
Yeah I have been a bit curious about this as well

03gixxerpilot
23-05-2011, 05:29 PM
hey guys nothing as yet, been busy with my kid and work, but have gotten a few other things out of the way, now, hoping to start on it again this month, got to get the barrells over the machinist to have them bored out, they will be going over this week.

BANDITROD
23-05-2011, 06:12 PM
Kids take up a lot of dollars and time don't they keep up the good work mate you will get there

Dynomutt
26-05-2011, 07:24 PM
I@m doing a similar build at the moment, using a 750 long stroke bottom end with Carrillo rods, a resleeved shortstroke block using B12 liners shortened to suit, which have been bored to 81mm using 09 Busa pistons (18mm pins)giving 1003cc I've used a DOT head from the shortstroke, I've machined 0.75mm from the piston crown to reduce the dish and the head has been machined to remove 1mm from it giving a comp ratio of approx 9.5 to 1 I'm using a T25 or T28 turbo blowing through GSXR1052 34mm CV carbs. Should be finished next year and fitted into my Jap home market 400 Katana frame with 1000K8 K tech forks, Harris yokes and clip ons, 1000K4 wheels, B12 monoshocked stretched arm, Brembo radial masters and HPK radial calipers etc etc. All bodywork is stock Katana but replicated in carbon fibre.
You can use 05 Z1000 pistons on the long stroke bottom end to go to 907cc (77mm bore)

Dynomutt
26-05-2011, 07:28 PM
Also some of the GSX1100 aircooled pistons fit the longstroke rods using an 18mm pin, these are sometimes used to go to 884cc

03gixxerpilot
27-05-2011, 08:00 PM
piston's and barrels gone to get machined should have them back in a week. :-)

BANDITROD
28-05-2011, 01:56 AM
Awesome getting the mate

DCRacing
08-06-2011, 03:32 PM
What length are the conrods on the longstrokes? i am wanting to get a set made or ordered through Carrillo, but they don't list them. I want to get a light set made, I am looking at trying to get some rev's out of it, mainly looking to try and lighten the valve train tho Just want to make sure the bottom end holds together.

Dynomutt
08-06-2011, 06:25 PM
Carrillo only make them as a special order item now, it took me almost 3 years to find a good secondhand set. If you want to get some better revs, then get the crank kife edged polished and balanced, get the stock rods shot peened and balanced, and weight match your pistons/pins/rings/clips to better than 0.5g. Unless you are using much larger forged pistons the stock rods will be fine.

03gixxerpilot
08-06-2011, 09:34 PM
DC i will try to remember to look tomorrow for you, also bear in mind that the later long stork (90-91) models had much stronger rods than the early ones, even thought they are pretty much the same rods.

there is a way to easerly tell the diffrence but i will have to look at the rods again to remember what it is.

Cheers Clive

DCRacing
11-06-2011, 01:23 PM
Thanks Clive, Let me know when you get a chance.

I have decided to go bigger than when i first looked at the project. Sort of going down the path that Dynomutt has suggested. When i first looked at it I was talking to Joe Marshall and he suggested the Busa pistons and 1127 sleeves in the 750 cases and 1100 cams. He reckoned use the CRF250 valves, as they were the same size and better/lighter.

I probably would look at sorting the bottom end like Dynomutt suggests, probably not quite as far tho.

03gixxerpilot
11-06-2011, 03:29 PM
ok will do,the main thing i am trying to achieve with mine is to build it with as many of the shelf parts as possible so for me the big priority is stock parts and minimise the amount of machining etc,

will proberly go for high proformance stuff a bit later but want to build it with as many stock parts as possible.

Dynomutt
12-06-2011, 03:44 AM
You'll need to use a shortstroke block to resleeve as the 750 longstroke block hasn't got enough material to machine out for the larger liners, if you use the shortstroke block then you can use the shortstroke head which already has the larger valves. You will need to reduce the dish on the pistons I removed just shy of 1mm from mine, and also remove a load of the head as well, if you take another 1mm from the head then you still end up with around 9.5 to 1 compression same as a B12, which for my purposes is fine as I'm turboing it, you could get a set of 08 onwards high compression Busa pistons from JE or Wiseco, stock 81mm bore which would help get the compression up into double figures. The biggest part though is the rods, stock rods will fail as they cant handle the increased weight and stress of the larger pistons. Carrillo will make them as a special order, but they are no longer an "on the shelf" item

03gixxerpilot
13-06-2011, 10:48 AM
Q. what is the weight of a standard busa piston.
Also what is the weight of a Carrillo rod.

Clive

DCRacing
13-06-2011, 12:55 PM
I did have all the figures on the piston weight, i know they are somewhere safe......
I will give Joe a ring and see if i can get the specs from him, as he is the one who had a lot of this data
As far as the rod weight, i am not sure.

Dynomutt
17-06-2011, 07:21 PM
Dunno I'll weigh the rods and check. One thing though the rods I have are all within 0.1g of each other. I can't remeber the piston weight, and I can't weigh them yet as they are still with the chap doing the boring work.I had 0.75mm shaved from the piston crown to reduce the dish, and raise the compression up a little. The shortstroke block that I have resleeved allows me to use the shortstroke J/K head which has larger diameter valves than the longstroke. I'm having 1mm skimmed from the head, in total this should give me a compressio ratio of about 9.5 to 1 which will be fine for a low boost set up.
I'm still thinking about piano wiring the block, but I reckon I'll only do it if it needs it, as I'm only intending to run low boost anyway, so I'll see how it goes with a sprung steel gasket first.

03gixxerpilot
25-02-2012, 07:32 PM
after a long spell away form this project, i have gotten of my ass and started work on it again.

i am not sure where i left of in the story of what i am doing and what i have done so far, and to be honest i couldn't be fucked reading through all the posts form the past.

So where i am at the moment...........
today i have assembled the bottom end of the motor, and boxed up the crankcases complete with an 1100 gear box in it... just because i could, yes yes i know it is a 5 speed rather than a 6 speed, but just wanted to see if i could do it.

spacer plates will be ready on monday, so hopefully next weekend i can get the pistons and barrels etc together and check deck heights etc, through the week i will cc the three heads i have put aside for the project, all of which will have differing combustion chamber capacity, they are a standard 750 short stroke (dot) head, a standard 1127 head, and a 1127 head of a race motor, (head was preped by Stone Brothers Racing)
i will also have to work out the cc above the piston crown and below the crown so that i can get an accurate compression ration when i do all the working out.
Hope to have some more progress for you next week :-)

Cheers Clive

Dynomutt
26-02-2012, 08:40 PM
The volumes of the heads differ by about 4cc, the 750 DOT head is nominally 22cc volume, and the 11/12 heads are nominally 26cc, although it needs to be measured accurately as they differ quite a lot.
On my 1003cc motor build I'm using the DOT head, with a zero decked block, 1 base gasket and one MLS head gasket gives a squish of 0.95mm.
With 30 thou' skimmed off the piston and the DOT head gives 9.0-1 C/R, with the 11 head it would drop it to around 8-1 C/R
I'm not too bothered about a high C/R as I'm using a turbo on my motor.

03gixxerpilot
27-02-2012, 08:23 AM
i am very particular about getting things right, and since i am using non Suzuki pistons with a different shaped dome on the piston, i will want to get the exact measurment for each combustion chamber of the head that i use, your info on the approx volumes is greatly appricated as this will allow me to calculate at aprox CR that i will get for each different head. i still got to work out how much volume the dome is going to take out of the volume of the combustion chamber, but i will get to that later this week i hope.

03gixxerpilot
01-03-2012, 10:15 PM
got the spacer plates today, but unfortuanatly wont have time this weekend to do any more work on the motor, but will be onto it again following weekend