PDA

View Full Version : Engineer Reports?



Large
16-01-2006, 05:08 PM
Hi all,

I've put a deposit on an '83 Katana 1100 that has an USD front end, single shock rear and an 1127 GSXR motor plus GSXR wheels and brakes. The frame is original...minus the rear footpeg hangers and now has bolt on rearsets.

It was registered with these mods up until a year ago...but they never got an engineers report.

So today I visit a couple of Blue Slip places who both reckon it will need an engineers report.

So I rang the engineer who checked a lhd car conversion for me 10 years ago for a few hundred $$... and he reckons it would need full brake test/noise test, plus something else I can't remember. This could cost up to $3000!!

The owner reckons he can get another blue slip and I'll be RTG but I'm not sure of the legal bit if I'm stopped by the cops or in an accident.

So my questions are, does anyone here bother with engineers reports when they're swapping suspension/wheels/brakes/motors?

Has anyone had a problem with the police hassling them over their mods?

Do you just go to a car inspection place and act dumb at pink slip time?

Cheers

Rich

ozkat
16-01-2006, 05:48 PM
Hey Large, id be more concerned that the mods were done properly (which im sure they are) personaly i wouldnt be overly concerned about no engineers cert, but then again im not overly concerned about anything except my family.

fimpBIKES
16-01-2006, 06:06 PM
what type of zorst has it got? standard polution gear on it?
thats if the new engine has any
im not 100% sure about this for bikes but in cars u generally have trouble if the engine is older than the original due to pollution etc

the bigger engine should be ok if its been done well,
the suspension would need a good looking at too

if the frame has been modded than the certificate is a must
otherwise all you insurance is useless

engineering cert guys tend to like it if you go see them before u do stuff,
but i guess that isnt possible here...
im assuming the gixxer brakes are better than the stock kat ones?

generally the bigger engine means u need better brakes

were the mods done by a shop? that would help u out a lot
also if you have any drawings or photos from the work?

where abouts do u live??

SHOW US PICSS!!
this sounds like one HOTTTT kat :D

Large
16-01-2006, 07:03 PM
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/7342/img1113c3wi.jpg

The work looks well done and the engine mounts are very neat etc. The Keihin Cr's apparently suck the fuel but...meh.

That's the NOS I was asking about yesterday:)

Large
16-01-2006, 07:04 PM
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/8153/img1110a3yp.jpg


quote:what type of zorst has it got? standard polution gear on it?
thats if the new engine has any
im not 100% sure about this for bikes but in cars u generally have trouble if the engine is older than the original due to pollution etc

I was told (by the engineer) that it would have to meet the noise/polution regs for the motor 89-90(?) GSXR


quote:the bigger engine should be ok if its been done well,
the suspension would need a good looking at too

I'd hate it if they made a big fuss over 50cc


quote:if the frame has been modded than the certificate is a must
otherwise all you insurance is useless

It hasn't been modified so much as having a useless bit removed...


quote:engineering cert guys tend to like it if you go see them before u do stuff,
but i guess that isnt possible here...
im assuming the gixxer brakes are better than the stock kat ones?

The engineer doesn't care if they're "better" (I don't think I'll be using him)


quote:generally the bigger engine means u need better brakes

Done!


quote:were the mods done by a shop? that would help u out a lot
also if you have any drawings or photos from the work?

Noit sure will check tomorrow


quote:where abouts do u live??

Hornsby (North of Sydney)


quote:SHOW US PICSS!!
this sounds like one HOTTTT kat

Done and Done!:D

ozkat
16-01-2006, 07:12 PM
thats bloody nice

Large
16-01-2006, 07:17 PM
Yeah I thought so.

I rang the guy about some GSXR bits he was selling for my other Katana project, and he mentioned he had one for sale.

So I guess the questions are...

Can anyone recommend an engineer in Sydney (preferably North)

What's the bottom line in costs?

Cheers

Rich

chopaweeza
16-01-2006, 07:22 PM
Actual requirements vary from state to state. In Vic/NSW You will need a stock exhaust system, big mirrors/mudguards/blinkers, really good brakes, stock airbox(varies from engineer to engineer) and all the testing must be done at an RTA(or VicRoads) approved engineer with a motorcycle endorsement. Depending on who you get to do the testing figure $2500 plus for the engineers certificate & testing.Some will charge as much as $8000 and remember thats payable regardless if you pass or fail. Try and get an engineer that doesn't do stress testing or Xray testing as these really jack the price right up. I can recommend offlist someone good and not too pricey in NSW and can privately supply the name of a certain firm that will gouge you stupid & probably fail you regardless. As I don't want to be legalled I won't mention them on list. If you somehow get the bike blue slipped without an engineers certificate you can loose the bike permanently if it red flags on the RTA computers or a cop pulls you and knows bikes. Having had the former experience(I got out of it only because the bike had a stock motor back in it when they came around & I'd already booked it in to go over the pits at Penrith for the new engine)I would recommend you either put a stock motor in it or get the engineers certificate. Best of luck mate and I sincerely hope you can sort it out without too much grief.

chopaweeza
16-01-2006, 07:24 PM
Right, there is someone close to you but for god sake don't use them.

Large
16-01-2006, 07:32 PM
quote:Originally posted by chopaweeza

Right, there is someone close to you but for god sake don't use them.


I think I read about them in another thread :)

Large
16-01-2006, 07:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by chopaweeza

Actual requirements vary from state to state. In Vic/NSW You will need a stock exhaust system, big mirrors/mudguards/blinkers, really good brakes, stock airbox(varies from engineer to engineer) and all the testing must be done at an RTA(or VicRoads) approved engineer with a motorcycle endorsement. Depending on who you get to do the testing figure $2500 plus for the engineers certificate & testing.Some will charge as much as $8000 and remember thats payable regardless if you pass or fail. Try and get an engineer that doesn't do stress testing or Xray testing as these really jack the price right up. I can recommend offlist someone good and not too pricey in NSW and can privately supply the name of a certain firm that will gouge you stupid & probably fail you regardless. As I don't want to be legalled I won't mention them on list. If you somehow get the bike blue slipped without an engineers certificate you can loose the bike permanently if it red flags on the RTA computers or a cop pulls you and knows bikes. Having had the former experience(I got out of it only because the bike had a stock motor back in it when they came around & I'd already booked it in to go over the pits at Penrith for the new engine)I would recommend you either put a stock motor in it or get the engineers certificate. Best of luck mate and I sincerely hope you can sort it out without too much grief.


I actually did a search before asking these questions and found your posts on frame building. I thought the stress/xray testing was for modified frames?. This ones stock, except for the removal of the passenger footpeg frame bit. All the added bits are from (basically) a later model of the same bike line....sort of lol

I've got an 1100GSX motor I could put in, but it needs some work first. I think it would be cheaper to leave it unregd and buy a fucking trailer...and tow bar:)

chopaweeza
16-01-2006, 07:43 PM
Yes, they charged someone I know $8000 for testing and failled it on mirrors & warning lights(idiot lights). Cost the poor bastard more to get it re-checked but they could have told him right at the beginning before they got his hopes up. He later told me he felt like a gang of monkeys had arse raped him and was quite gutted. The bike was only worth $5000 registered so you can sort of see what he meant. Try looking around Camden. A full list of motorcycle certified engineers are on the RTA's website if you wade through their dodgy internal search engine.

chopaweeza
16-01-2006, 07:48 PM
interpretations vary from engineer to engineer. If the stock frame has no modifications then they usually just check the way the engine is mounted-usually. Normally, if your mounts are thick and well constructed they are cool with them. Birdshit welds are a big no no as well. They may stress test the frame due to the increased power of the new engine and may xray the mounts for stress fractures anyway. It's really about picking a good engineer that will not be too interested in gouging you.

Large
16-01-2006, 08:06 PM
Now I think of it, I guess the single shock setup is non standard...

Can't I just play dumb and say it was registered and like that when I bought it?

I can be good at acting dumb:D

chopaweeza
16-01-2006, 08:18 PM
From past experience, once they have it logged as needing an engineers certificate it blows the whole"It was like it when I got it" defense out the window. You probably can get away with it due to the similar displacement but if you don't you can loose the bike. It's confusing as all hell but it's about to get worse. If you are going to do it then have it finalised before the end of June when apparently the Euro 06' regulations come into effect. We only have sketchy details about the new changes but none are any good.

ozkat
16-01-2006, 08:26 PM
How can someone possibly justify charging/spending $8000 on an engineers report.

chopaweeza
16-01-2006, 08:37 PM
Got me fucked Ozkat. The poor bastard had taken 3 years and who knows how much money to get it to that stage. It became such an issue at home when his wife found out that 18 months later they were still arguing over it daily. He sold the bike rather than go through anymore crap over it. They still fight over it occasionally and it's the sort of thing I could never have justified when I was married either. Now, when the Buildoff Gixxer gets Engineered I know who to use and am factoring in the requirements into the build. Thats why I have a stock exhaust and intake system.

Large
16-01-2006, 08:42 PM
quote:Originally posted by chopaweeza

From past experience, once they have it logged as needing an engineers certificate it blows the whole"It was like it when I got it" defense out the window. You probably can get away with it due to the similar displacement but if you don't you can loose the bike. It's confusing as all hell but it's about to get worse. If you are going to do it then have it finalised before the end of June when apparently the Euro 06' regulations come into effect. We only have sketchy details about the new changes but none are any good.


I haven't actually shown the bike to anyone official yet, and the owner reckons he could get a blue slip and give that to me with the bike. Then I just get a green slip and voila!.

"I bought a bike with a valid inspection report...What more can I do?"

I'll pm you about recommended engineers.


quote:Originally posted by ozkat

How can someone possibly justify charging/spending $8000 on an engineers report

That sounds like they charge worse than fucking lawyers.

Maybe the govt is just trying to stop people modifying bikes....

I

chopaweeza
16-01-2006, 08:57 PM
Ah, you aren't on the radar. Good. Then the ignorance defence works well. Just try to get it blue slipped first. You may have a reasonable defense in the displacement and the motors being an easy swap over. Just a thought. But, I would put a stock system on it before I did to give them less reason to look further or test further.

Large
16-01-2006, 10:11 PM
Seems to me you could fit a 1600cc big block kit to the original motor and they wouldn't care, but if you fit a later, lighter motor with maybe 20 more hp they get all anorakky.

Quite frankly it's not worth spending any more than $1000 for an engineers report. Even that's getting up around 20% of the bikes value.

I wonder how much of the $2500 engineers fees goes in proffesional indemnity insurance....

All I want is a bike to take to the drags every month or so...

chopaweeza
16-01-2006, 10:48 PM
Quite alot actually. A bloke I used for 15 years stopped about 3 ago. The reason-The cost of the insurance and of keeping up to date. To engineer a modified truck frame only costs $300 by the way -no justice at all

Large
17-01-2006, 02:39 AM
So now it's 3.30 am and I can't sleep thinking about this.

From what I understand... The main problem from an engineering point of view, appears to be with modifying the frame.

Now...if I can get an original swingarm and shocks and replace the GSXR swinger.... I've gone back to the original frame setup.

Everything else can be passed off as just bolt in accessories:D

Hmmmmm

Large
17-01-2006, 02:46 AM
By the way.

The owner hasn't advertised the bike anywhere, so he doesn't have people banging down his door.

And I've only given him a very small deposit.

Maybe I should just walk away from it.

Large
17-01-2006, 03:06 AM
Then again...how do I walk away from this...

I'm going to ring him first thing, and if he's got the original swinger and shocks...and can get a blue slip, I'll go ahead with it.

Unless there's anything else I've forgotten.

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/6973/img1107a6su.jpg

http://img465.imageshack.us/img465/6210/img1114a1uo.jpg

chopaweeza
17-01-2006, 03:32 AM
Because some of the GSX1100 range were mono shocked you might be OK on that point if the modification was done well. Asking the seller for a Bluey isn't a bad idea and can give you some peace of mind if nothing else. Rules were made to be broken, pissed on, circumvented and down right dis-obeyed. Luck mate

Large
17-01-2006, 03:37 AM
I just did a search for the RTA guidelines for Bike mods.

This document http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vsi/vsi06.pdf

appears to cover bikes as well as cars.

It looks like the engine size increase isn't a problem if it's less than 15% bigger capacity and "upgraded shocks and springs are generally ok" which appears to cover the front shocks.

So I'm thinking if I piss the rear shock/ swingarm off for an original setup. I might be close to following the letter, if not the intent, of the law.

Hmmm

I'm going back to bed

Large
17-01-2006, 03:47 AM
quote:Originally posted by chopaweeza

Because some of the GSX1100 range were mono shocked you might be OK on that point if the modification was done well. Asking the seller for a Bluey isn't a bad idea and can give you some peace of mind if nothing else. Rules were made to be broken, pissed on, circumvented and down right dis-obeyed. Luck mate


What are you doing up?:)
http://img466.imageshack.us/img466/4550/img1114b9yr.jpg

You cant really see, but the shock mount looks like it was welded well (neatly too) and appeared to be made out of strong box section steel.

I don't think they cut any corners, the guy is a drag racer and built this one to run hard with nitrous. If the work on his other bikes is any indication it should be fine.

Incidently... how do the guys with the lowered and lengthened turbo Hyabusas get rego?

For that matter, does anyone bother with engineers reports when they turbo a bike?

fimpBIKES
17-01-2006, 05:40 AM
its easy to unbolt a turbo ;)

if your just doing drags do u need it street legal?
that is one very nicely sorted kat BTW

chadams
17-01-2006, 09:54 AM
Large if you have proof of the previous rego with the same engine in it same blue slip places will just go with it... They don't make much money off a blue slip. If you can get the old rego papers and the frame & engine no. match then a blue slip should not be too much trouble. I rencently got a blue slip sorted for a DR250 99 model it was an ex race bike that had never had rego. It passed the blue slip with the chain guard resting on the chain and held on to the swing arm by cable ties as the mounts had being grinded off by the previous owner. Make sure you have the noise sticker on your exhaust just get it engraved with 93.5 db to be safe.

speeddemon
17-01-2006, 12:46 PM
Agree - with adams. It was my DR he bought. If has been regod previously then should be OK to blue slip.

Seems your main issue is fabrication of engine mounts. If it was a bolt in job (Bandit to 1100 say) would be no issue. Power <15% seems to be the guide, and brakes and front end ect are all considered upgrades - like puttling ohlins forks on as long as the triples were the same angles ect. I cant see why this would cost much to get looked at - Im an engineer but but dont charge that much to design stormwater systems for a whole fucking residential subdivision.

ozkat
17-01-2006, 01:13 PM
i tend to think that if you buy it with rego and RWC it should be ok. How would anyone else get on that knows virtually nothing about bikes? i mean you only have to go to your local dealer to see most of the customers know nothing about what they are riding. If your not an engineer or a motorcycle mechanic in this case how would you know what you are buying. Or should everyone who buys a s/hand bike take it to an engineer to have it checked out, I think not.

chopaweeza
17-01-2006, 02:00 PM
In the original message he said it needed braking and noise tests. They do these at Eastern Creek Dragway. They have to rent the strip for the time needed don't forget. I honestly thought the $8000 price tag was bullshit until I was shown the invoice. I've yet to see a bike with main frame modifications be engineered for less than $1800 and that was a while ago. Previously, only blokes into hardcore choppers experienced these problems but now because they steam rollered the chopper crowd they expanded it. I had a really long talk to a cluey bloke from the RTA last year about all this. His opinion was that this crap with bikes now(which may get alot harder real soon) is a direct flow on from all that blowup over P Platers drag racing on the streets in "Overpowered Cars". While they were sticking it to the P Platers many cheered but they also used the momentum to bring in similar rules for other vehicles including bikes. Sucks bigtime but we don't have a large effective riders rights organisation to stop them so they get away with it.

Large
17-01-2006, 04:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by fimpBIKES

its easy to unbolt a turbo ;)

if your just doing drags do u need it street legal?
that is one very nicely sorted kat BTW


Unfortunately I don't own or have room for a trailer so rego is a must have.


quote:Large if you have proof of the previous rego with the same engine in it same blue slip places will just go with it... They don't make much money off a blue slip. If you can get the old rego papers and the frame & engine no. match then a blue slip should not be too much trouble. I rencently got a blue slip sorted for a DR250 99 model it was an ex race bike that had never had rego. It passed the blue slip with the chain guard resting on the chain and held on to the swing arm by cable ties as the mounts had being grinded off by the previous owner. Make sure you have the noise sticker on your exhaust just get it engraved with 93.5 db to be safe.

That's what I'm hoping for. I talked to the owner today and he reckons he doesn't have the time to get a blue slip so it's up to me if I want it...

I might have been a bit vague with my questions...but the situation at the moment is, it's unregistered and has been so for a year now, hence the need for a blue slip. He does have the last rego papers in his name.

I do have another complete Katana 1100 in pieces in the garage...so I could just buy it...try getting a blue slip at a dodgy looking place and if I fail...either...
1 Get a tow bar
2 Put all the bits (with a stock rear) into that frame and get rego
3 Make a nice glass display cabinet and put it in the lounge room:D

I really need a few drinks to get clarity over this, but I'm on 24 hour standby all week.

Cheers

Rich

chopaweeza
17-01-2006, 06:36 PM
Try for a Bluey without doing anything first. Just a thought. The reason I was up so late was nightshift(last night tonight). We had problems last night with the Nitrous Oxide Reactor constantly tripping into alarm so after 0100 I did alot of walking.

hooligan
18-01-2006, 12:18 AM
Mine got it's engineering cert and i couldn't get it out of neutral( until we fixed the wiring) It only cost $400, and he came to me. This was five years ago, though. I'll see if he still does 'em, then put his number up if you still need it.

Large
18-01-2006, 06:29 AM
PM sent

speeddemon
18-01-2006, 08:49 AM
I find RTA tech site to be helpful in terms of what you do or donot need - or at least what can be covered by a blue slip. The guy there also thought the ADR39 was a pain in da arse and could see how us guys have the shits!

Technical Enquiries [Technical_Enquiries@rta.nsw.gov.au]

Large
19-01-2006, 05:49 PM
Thanks for all the replies guys.

I've done a "worst case scenario" check...and I'm going to pick it up on Sunday.

If I can get rego before 1st Feb, I'm going to run it at Bike Night At Eastern Creek.

If not, I'll just run the Gixxer.

Cheers

Rich

ozkat
22-01-2006, 09:31 AM
DIDYAGETYAKATYET? DIDYAGETYAKATYET? DIDYAGETYAKATYET?

Large
22-01-2006, 10:10 AM
KEN OATH!!!

ozkat
22-01-2006, 10:24 AM
ONYA Mate!!!:D:D[:p][:p]

Large
22-01-2006, 10:36 AM
Now I've got to try and set up the garage to take the three bikes, a car and a whole load of shit.

I'll get some before and after pics...


...right after I go to the bottlo.:D

Large
23-01-2006, 08:10 PM
Visited a couple of places in Hornsby to get a blue slip today. One was shut untill the 30th and the other (an indian bloke) said he was too busy this week.

Funny thing was he looked like he was wanting an offer to make it worthwhile for him to do. Apparently these places can't knock back an inspection...but if I force the issue they could be cunts about it.

Should I offer him $20? or maybe some curry puffs ? lol

Seriously, Anyone Know someone in the Hornsby/upper north shore area who doesn't know bikes or look too close?

ozkat
23-01-2006, 08:15 PM
mate if you were in QLD id be able to get you one as long as you have the VIN, engine number and odo reading, simple as that. good luck tho.

23-01-2006, 09:06 PM
most petrol station mechanics who are authorised to do blue slips for bikes generally know nuthing about them.Avoid bike shops if ya can or Try Dudleys performance motorcycles at Wyong.He builds customs.While ya there wack it on the dyno.

crazymofo
23-01-2006, 10:15 PM
ozkat.. i may need to enlist your services lol!

congrats on the buy there large.

cheers.joe.

ozkat
23-01-2006, 10:17 PM
no probs mofo just let me know when. he is mobile too.

fimpBIKES
24-01-2006, 06:17 PM
i think there is a good bloke around there

i will send some emails, see if i can track em down ;)

Large
24-01-2006, 06:21 PM
quote:Originally posted by fimpBIKES

i think there is a good bloke around there

i will send some emails, see if i can track em down ;)


If that's for me...thanks:)

fimpBIKES
24-01-2006, 07:06 PM
its for me too, cos the guys in newy are all assholes!!!!

fimpBIKES
24-01-2006, 07:07 PM
actually i think exben will know, he is the guy rupes called to find out when i was down there last


EXXXBEN!!!! 'elp

Large
01-02-2006, 05:53 PM
I had to fix my leaking fork seals so I got the seals and dropped the forks off at my mechanic mates place last week. unfortunately the fucking seals were the wrong size.

Today I had an RDO so I was determined not to waste it with aimless drinking...so I set myself a mission...

5.55 Alarm
6.30 on the road
7.15 Mechanic's place to pick up forks
7.40 Lloyd Penn MC..got the seals but couldn't help with fitting.
8.30 Procycles-return seals...can't help with fitting the new ones.
8.45 Home and start fitting seals
10.15 First seal done
10.17 second seal done lol
13.00 oil in and forks/wheel mounted
13.30 at the Indian guy's blue slip place...but he's a bit busy
13.35 Tell him I was born in India (long story)
14.00 Still talking about Calcutta and Srinigar
15.00 Done my booze shopping had a chat with Mundy while he's done my blue slip
15.05 Guy from next workshop comes out and starts crapping on about the mods...untill I make faces. Then he tells me he owns a "Moriwaki Monster" 1 of only 8 made.. interesting...
15.40 Indian guy sort of hinting his cousin wants to meet a nice Australian guy and move here
15.55 home and get green slip over phone
16.15 go to NRMA for Green slip
16.30 Go to RTA for rego. Silly old bat wont give me 88 plates "You take them as they come" I explained to her that it stops asians from running into me... but she was unmoved.
17.00 $600 poorer and home for drinks!!!

FUCKING YAY!!!

ozkat
01-02-2006, 06:32 PM
ONYA Large!! Now be nice to your boss and go on the Fools run. We (I) expect you to be there!!

hooligan
03-02-2006, 12:35 AM
Nice one! Street legal (kinda);)

Large
03-02-2006, 07:12 AM
quote:Originally posted by hooligan

Nice one! Street legal (kinda);)



:D:D Yeah kinda.

Going to have a word with the insurers today.....

fimpBIKES
03-02-2006, 08:24 PM
GOOD LUCK!!! :D

shannons are good if your only using it a few times a week